I'm sure this has been covered before, but I didn't see it with a
quick search-- if you'll forgive a noob--

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.

The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach, let
dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? Is there a
good test of how wet is "too" wet?

"Nicola O." wrote

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.
The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

Not good, heard of worse though.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach, let
dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? Is there a
good test of how wet is "too" wet?

No, sorry but until you find out how the water is getting back there, it's
not done. Being an exterior wall, it could even be from the roof. If
there's a window on that wall, could be there. Not enough info here to know
if the shower line runs through that wall as well but if so, thats another
point of possible water.

You need to first stop the water from getting in there, then dry it
completely and have that wood checked. It's fairly simple to sister a stud
if it's not badly damaged yet. (That means to add another stud along side).

Ignored, you will lose the wall and floor. Can happen pretty quick too.

On Sep 7, 3:47*pm, "cshenk" wrote:
"Nicola O." wrote

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. *I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. *There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.
The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. *It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

Not good, heard of worse though.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach, let
dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? *Is there a
good test of how wet is "too" wet?

No, sorry but until you find out how the water is getting back there, it's
not done. *Being an exterior wall, it could even be from the roof. *If
there's a window on that wall, could be there. *Not enough info here to know
if the shower line runs through that wall as well but if so, thats another
point of possible water.

You need to first stop the water from getting in there, then dry it
completely and have that wood checked. *It's fairly simple to sister a stud
if it's not badly damaged yet. (That means to add another stud along side).

Ignored, you will lose the wall and floor. *Can happen pretty quick too..

Oh, I should've said, the wall got wet from the inside out. I think
the previous owner muffed the grout job, especially on the soapdish...
which fell off of its own accord a couple weeks ago. The wall gets
drier the further away from the soapdish you go. The grouting was
starting to deteriorate all over the surround though; it probably
wasn't sealed.

Nicola O. wrote:
I'm sure this has been covered before, but I didn't see it with a
quick search-- if you'll forgive a noob--

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.

The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach, let
dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? Is there a
good test of how wet is "too" wet?

The wet wall is tiled surround? Shower? Most likely the tile grout had
cracks or pin-holes that allowed water intrusion, which has happened to
other units in our condo. I don't know "how wet is too wet", but it
wouldn't hurt to sister in a couple of 2x4's since you have to open up
the wall. For sure, spray with bleach and allow to dry very sell.

For sure, look at attic and exterior of wall, including fascia and
soffits, to see if any signs of leaks before you close up the wall.
I've seen a lot of water come in through small gaps in fascia. A leaky
roof can shed water far from the leak, such as if the water follows a
rafter or wiring across from where the water comes in.

"Nicola O." wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

You need to first stop the water from getting in there, then dry it
completely and have that wood checked. It's fairly simple to sister a stud
if it's not badly damaged yet. (That means to add another stud along
side).

Ignored, you will lose the wall and floor. Can happen pretty quick too.

Oh, I should've said, the wall got wet from the inside out. I think
the previous owner muffed the grout job, especially on the soapdish...
which fell off of its own accord a couple weeks ago. The wall gets
drier the further away from the soapdish you go. The grouting was
starting to deteriorate all over the surround though; it probably
wasn't sealed.

Probably it then but while you have the wall down, check all fittings.
Might want to replace some as it's a cheap fix just then. Check the wood
carefully and don't get cheap about replacement. It's the golden moment
where it's cheap to fix from the sounds of it.

wrote:
Nicola O. wrote:
I'm sure this has been covered before, but I didn't see it with a
quick search-- if you'll forgive a noob--

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.

The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach, let
dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? Is there a
good test of how wet is "too" wet?

The wet wall is tiled surround? Shower? Most likely the tile grout had
cracks or pin-holes that allowed water intrusion, which has happened to
other units in our condo. I don't know "how wet is too wet", but it
wouldn't hurt to sister in a couple of 2x4's since you have to open up
the wall. For sure, spray with bleach and allow to dry very sell.

For sure, look at attic and exterior of wall, including fascia and
soffits, to see if any signs of leaks before you close up the wall. I've
seen a lot of water come in through small gaps in fascia. A leaky roof
can shed water far from the leak, such as if the water follows a rafter
or wiring across from where the water comes in.
Hi,
If that is the case. outside wall sheathing is said to be black
somewhat. Sounds like exterior wall is not air tight as well as tiled
wall has water leak. Whatever exterior wall finish is, underneath there
should be wrap like Tyvek and sheathing ans insulation and blue sheet
rock and tiles. Careful investigation will reveal the cause(s).

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:09:08 -0700 (PDT), "Nicola O."
wrote:

I'm sure this has been covered before, but I didn't see it with a
quick search-- if you'll forgive a noob--

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.

The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach, let
dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? Is there a
good test of how wet is "too" wet?


Did you find the leak?!?

On Sep 7, 7:46*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:09:08 -0700 (PDT), "Nicola O."


Did you find the leak?!?

Phish, no, nothing specific. I have the long wall (the outside wall)
demo-ed except for the insulation, which is where I've stopped for the
day. The two end walls appear drier (the wall where the fittings are
and then the one opposite there) so it's more work to pull down the
tile and wallboard there. The wall seems dry where the fixtures are,
but the grout looks really crappy. It'll come down, and we'll see
what we shall see.

Tony, thanks for the tip. I haven't pulled the insulation down yet to
check if there's a problem with the sheathing. What I see is bare wood
behind the roll-type insulation. I'm in late 60's construction, so
not sure what there is for a moisture barrier.

cshenk, the studding is at least doubled in almost every location.
There's like 6 verticals in the back corner (!!) and two sets of nail
holes. We moved in just 2 years ago -- I'm thinking the owners did
for resale exactly what I'm doing-- now sistered in the studs,
retiled, and did a crap job on the grout.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

On Sep 7, 4:10*pm, "
wrote:
Nicola O. wrote:
I'm sure this has been covered before, but I didn't see it with a
quick search-- if you'll forgive a noob--

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. *I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. *There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.

The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. *It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach, let
dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? *Is there a
good test of how wet is "too" wet?

The wet wall is tiled surround? *Shower? *Most likely the tile grout had
cracks or pin-holes that allowed water intrusion, which has happened to
other units in our condo. *I don't know "how wet is too wet", but it
wouldn't hurt to sister in a couple of 2x4's since you have to open up
the wall. *For sure, spray with bleach and allow to dry very sell.

For sure, look at attic and exterior of wall, including fascia and
soffits, to see if any signs of leaks before you close up the wall.
I've seen a lot of water come in through small gaps in fascia. *A leaky
roof can shed water far from the leak, such as if the water follows a
rafter or wiring across from where the water comes in.

Thanks for the tips! I may call in a pro to do the inspection while I
have everything opened up.

"cshenk" wrote in
:

"Nicola O." wrote

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.
The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

Not good, heard of worse though.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach,
let dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? Is there
a good test of how wet is "too" wet?

No, sorry but until you find out how the water is getting back there,
it's not done. Being an exterior wall, it could even be from the
roof. If there's a window on that wall, could be there. Not enough
info here to know if the shower line runs through that wall as well
but if so, thats another point of possible water.

You need to first stop the water from getting in there, then dry it
completely

I've found putting like one of those 20" box fans on it for many hours
accelerates drying a lot.

and have that wood checked. It's fairly simple to sister a
stud if it's not badly damaged yet. (That means to add another stud
along side).

Ignored, you will lose the wall and floor. Can happen pretty quick
too.

wrote in message
m
Nicola O. wrote:
I'm sure this has been covered before, but I didn't see it with a
quick search-- if you'll forgive a noob--

I've got a wet bathroom wall, tiled surround, outside wall. I've
pulled off some of the tile and backer board and the studs are also
wet/damp to different degrees, worst around the nails which were so
corroded they practically crumbled. There is roll-style insulation
with foil backing-- I can see by poking around the edges of it, that
the insulation is blackened and the outside wall has some black on it
too.

The studs don't appear to be badly rotted but it is softened. It's
worst around the nail holes, soft and black.

So if I pull out the insulation, spray down the walls with bleach,
let dry, then replace everything, does that seem adequate? Is there
a good test of how wet is "too" wet?

The wet wall is tiled surround? Shower? Most likely the tile grout
had cracks or pin-holes that allowed water intrusion, which has
happened to other units in our condo. I don't know "how wet is too
wet", but it wouldn't hurt to sister in a couple of 2x4's since you
have to open up the wall. For sure, spray with bleach and allow to
dry very sell.
For sure, look at attic and exterior of wall, including fascia and
soffits, to see if any signs of leaks before you close up the wall.
I've seen a lot of water come in through small gaps in fascia. A
leaky roof can shed water far from the leak, such as if the water
follows a rafter or wiring across from where the water comes in.

Agreed. Doesn't that sound like possibly a problem with multiple vapor
barriers too? That should be a prime consideration when closing up the
job, at any rate.

Just a thought,

Twayne`

"Nicola O." wrote

The wall seems dry where the fixtures are,
but the grout looks really crappy. It'll come down, and we'll see
what we shall see.

cshenk, the studding is at least doubled in almost every location.
There's like 6 verticals in the back corner (!!) and two sets of nail
holes. We moved in just 2 years ago -- I'm thinking the owners did
for resale exactly what I'm doing-- now sistered in the studs,
retiled, and did a crap job on the grout.

Humm, thats bad news. It's fixable still depending on how handy you are.

Are you comfortable framing a wall? If you are already sistered, you can't
add a 3rd layer.

A few questions on things that are not clear to me then my best guess on
advice.

Q1: This is an outerwall which is also a shower tile enclosure where the
tile goes up pretty close to the ceiling right? The shower spigot comes out
within the tile?

A: if both right, it may be a pressure leveler gone bad behind that time
with a slow leak which caused the grout to go bad. Sealed on outside, not
on inside. This is what you hope for as it's the cheapest one to fix. Rip
all the tile down and turn on both hot and cold at full blast while looking
at the pipes. What you hope to find is a pinhole leak.

Q2: This is an outerwall and you can see the outside wood (clpabord or
whatever) is right against the insulation that hasnt been pulled down yet.

A: this is cheap construction but it was done then. The answer isn't
completely cheap but if you were thinking to reside the house, they add the
water barrier to the outside of the vinyl siding. Older houses that predate
this can get some help from adding it internally but you'll find the wood
siding is nailed to those framing parts so you have to remove them to add a
water barrier between them and the outside. Proper caulking and angled
siding removes that problem as long as the gutters are functional.

Q3: None of the above seem to pertain.

A: you may have a roof problem. A seller will not tell you this and will
cover damage for a fast sell. To discern this, you need a big hose and hit
the wall and roof for a goodlie time with someone else inside. If it's the
roof, you'll see it pouring or dripping in. This may well be along the
edges where the window is (traveling over to the shower) or from above and
just dripping down. Be patient. This check takes a good soaking. What you
are hoping for is if this happens, it's when you hit the window or just
under the roof. Caulk may fix it.

Thats the best I can do other than to mention we get alot of wood boring
bees here so we tend to develop holes along the wooded part of the 'just
under the roof' eves. Also, if already sistered and those are bad, you
really need to reframe tht part but not til the water ingress is identified.
Rule out the rest and it may have been bad internal grout, the the existance
of already sistered studs, indicates otherwise.

On Sep 8, 4:07*pm, "cshenk" wrote:
"Nicola O." wrote

The wall seems dry where the fixtures are,
but the grout looks really crappy. *It'll come down, and we'll see
what we shall see.
cshenk, the studding is at least doubled in almost every location.
There's like 6 verticals in the back corner (!!) and two sets of nail
holes. *We moved in just 2 years ago -- I'm thinking the owners did
for resale exactly what I'm doing-- now sistered in the studs,
retiled, and did a crap job on the grout.

Humm, thats bad news. * *It's fixable still depending on how handy you are.

Are you comfortable framing a wall? *If you are already sistered, you can't
add a 3rd layer.

A few questions on things that are not clear to me then my best guess on
advice.

Q1: This is an outerwall which is also a shower tile enclosure where the
tile goes up pretty close to the ceiling right? *The shower spigot comes out
within the tile?

A: *if both right, it may be a pressure leveler gone bad behind that time
with a slow leak which caused the grout to go bad. *Sealed on outside, not
on inside. *This is what you hope for as it's the cheapest one to fix. *Rip
all the tile down and turn on both hot and cold at full blast while looking
at the pipes. What you hope to find is a pinhole leak.

Q2: This is an outerwall and you can see the outside wood (clpabord or
whatever) is right against the insulation that hasnt been pulled down yet..

A: this is cheap construction but it was done then. The answer isn't
completely cheap but if you were thinking to reside the house, they add the
water barrier to the outside of the vinyl siding. *Older houses that predate
this can get some help from adding it internally but you'll find the wood
siding is nailed to those framing parts so you have to remove them to add a
water barrier between them and the outside. *Proper caulking and angled
siding removes that problem as long as the gutters are functional.

Q3: None of the above seem to pertain.

A: *you may have a roof problem. *A seller will not tell you this and will
cover damage for a fast sell. *To discern this, you need a big hose and hit
the wall and roof for a goodlie time with someone else inside. *If it's the
roof, you'll see it pouring or dripping in. *This may well be along the
edges where the window is (traveling over to the shower) or from above and
just dripping down. Be patient. This check takes a good soaking. *What you
are hoping for is if this happens, it's when you hit the window or just
under the roof. *Caulk may fix it.

Thats the best I can do other than to mention we get alot of wood boring
bees here so we tend to develop holes along the wooded part of the 'just
under the roof' eves. *Also, if already sistered and those are bad, you
really need to reframe tht part but not til the water ingress is identified.
Rule out the rest and it may have been bad internal grout, the the existance
of already sistered studs, indicates otherwise.

I'm not sure why you seem so sure that it's anything other than water
from the shower getting back into the tile and onward?

The wall I have pulled down is the "long" wall on a standard tub
surround. It's an outside wall, with a small window. The tile goes
up to about, oh, 16" or so from the ceiling. The wall with the
fixtures including the showerhead is perpendicular to this wall. I
haven't pulled it down yet so I don't know if it's wet or not. It
doesn't look wet, but the grout is crumbling so it probably is.

The window and sill, miraculously, appear to be tight.

Q2 is a "yes." Residing isn't happening any time soon though, and as
I said, I'm not convinced that the water is coming in from the
outside.

Sure appreciate all the tips. The fixture wall is coming down next
and I'll definitely follow your tip to look for pinhole leaks.

Red Green, I was thinking about box fans *and* maybe some heat lamps.