On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:55:34 -0400, John wrote:

I found a little piece of
rubber hose stuck in one of the larger holes under the bowl rim. It
must have happened in the store where this particular unit was on
display. Removing the obstruction allowed it to flush ok. So, look
for a possible obstruction in the water flush path.

I'm not sure I understand what you're describing. The tank is dumping a
lot of water into the bowl. Did you see the photographs from one of my
earlier posts?

Items can get past the flapper and into the bowl rim that restricts
the water flow. A neighbor had a rental condo. A tank bolt was
leaking, so after I pulled the tank off I poured acid in the bowl
flapper throat. To my amazement a *syringe* floated up that allowed me
to grab it with needle nose pliers.

The toilet swirled and flushed but was much stronger after the
obstruction was removed. You can't make this stuff up. Apparently the
renters were hiding the syringe in the tank and lost it as it got past
the flapper and into the bowl rim.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:29:23 -0400, John wrote:

joevan wrote:

Something else, I read a lot of the post and may have missed it but
years ago my brother had a problem with his toilet. I removed it from
the the floor and there was a small tooth brush positioned across the
iron pipe, catching most of the paper and whatever was flushed. If
you haven't checked it yet, why not?

I've been doing everything I can to avoid pulling the toilet. It's
something I've never done and I dreaded the prospect. I'm concerned
about a water leak especially since the toilet is on the 2nd floor.
But, hey, if I do pull the toilet, I'll have learned a new skill. I
just have to muster up the courage which will probably take until next
weekend.

I had a pair of older Eljer toilets, made in 1963 if the date stamped
on the tank lid was any indication, that were working fine until they
started demonstrating the symptoms you mentioned. I could not figure
out why the one would not flush properly either, and I did the toilet
augur and muriatic acid treatment to no avail. Finally I just pulled
the one and replaced it with a $99 American Standard Cadet toilet
(which works GREAT!) and took it outside and beat it apart to see if
there was any hidden clog. Nothing. The vent holes were clear,
nothing was blocking the channels, so I still have no idea what was
stopping this toilet from working, especially as all the others work
just fine, including the new one installed in the same location. I
doubt seriously that my vent stack has a blockage, and I'm not about
to go up 3.5 stories onto the roof to check it out.

Art Todesco wrote:
John wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:


Ok, I'm going to add something that may have been overlooked. I've
had a toilet stop working ... the water would swirl and swirl, but
rarely
go down with enough force to flush. I found there was a crack in the
porcelain on the bowl unit right below the flap valve in the tank. Much
of the water would go directly down the drain and not to the holes in
the bowl. Once I separated the tank and bowl it was obvious ... a new
bowl unit fixed the problem.

A second similar problem was with a brand new toilet that had been
sitting in my garage for about a year. It was a 1.6 GPF unit. I finally
took the toilet up from the bathroom and suspended it over a laundry
tub. I played with different flushing methods. I found that 1.6
gallons
of water directly to the bowl flushed good, however, when it was
coming from the tank, it didn't flush reliably. I found a little
piece of
rubber hose stuck in one of the larger holes under the bowl rim. It
must have happened in the store where this particular unit was on
display. Removing the obstruction allowed it to flush ok. So, look
for a possible obstruction in the water flush path.

I'm not sure I understand what you're describing. The tank is dumping
a lot of water into the bowl. Did you see the photographs from one of
my earlier posts?
Yes I did. In my case there also looked like lots of water. In the 1st
case (with the hole) it was an older 3 or 4 gallon unit. There seemed
to be plenty of water. In the 2nd case (1.6 gallon unit) there was also
seemingly lots of water, however, it all just swirled and swirled. BTW,
removing a toilet is not all that bad a job. Like someone has said,
something could be stuck right under it. Let us know what you find.



I've read everyone's posts (thank you to all) and based upon those
suggestions this what I've done so far:

I checked the inside rim hole with a coat hanger. I didn't find any
obvious clogging.

I took a number of photographs in rapid succession to see if there was
something I was visually missing.
This is what the flow looked several seconds after the toilet was
flushed (there wasn't a large difference in the flow from second to
second from any of the holes so I included only one photograph):

Inside rim of left side of toilet flushing:
http://i27.tinypic.com/5o8apf.jpg

Right side:
http://i26.tinypic.com/4i0y.jpg

There is very little water flowing out of any of the holes on the right
side. Another toilet on the same floor that doesn't clog also had very
little water flow on the right side.

I also checked the small hole at the bottom of the bowl with a coat
hanger. I felt the flow with my hand while the toilet was flushed so
that I could feel the pressure (nice clean bleached toilet). There
seemed to be a fairly good flow and I didn't detect any obstructions
with the hanger.

The one sheet of toilet tissue floated back up into the bowl after the
toilet was flushed.

As always, I'm open to ideas.

Michael B wrote:
I got into this one late, but it appears that no one has asked
you this question.
Has a "disinfectant" been used on this commode?


If you're referring to something like house hold bleach (sodium
hydrochlorite), then the answer is yes; many times.

Michael B wrote:
For those unaware of why I asked the question, welcome to
Toiletology 101. http://www.toiletology.com/blue-goo.shtml

On Aug 16, 9:29 am, Michael B wrote:
I got into this one late, but it appears that no one has asked
you this question.
Has a "disinfectant" been used on this commode?

Yes, I did wonder why you asked. I only use house hold bleach and a bit
of liquid kitchen detergent in the bowl.

John wrote:
Michael B wrote:
For those unaware of why I asked the question, welcome to
Toiletology 101. http://www.toiletology.com/blue-goo.shtml

On Aug 16, 9:29 am, Michael B wrote:
I got into this one late, but it appears that no one has asked
you this question.
Has a "disinfectant" been used on this commode?

Yes, I did wonder why you asked. I only use house hold bleach and a bit
of liquid kitchen detergent in the bowl.

He is probably referring to the blue stuff or the things that look like
giant mints, that you drop into the tank. I've heard of those being
known to mess up the working parts up in the tank. I've never heard of
it causing problems down below, but I'm no expert.

--
aem sends...

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:23:45 -0400, John wrote:

I've read everyone's posts (thank you to all) and based upon those
suggestions this what I've done so far:

I checked the inside rim hole with a coat hanger. I didn't find any
obvious clogging.

I took a number of photographs in rapid succession to see if there was
something I was visually missing.
This is what the flow looked several seconds after the toilet was
flushed (there wasn't a large difference in the flow from second to
second from any of the holes so I included only one photograph):

Inside rim of left side of toilet flushing:
http://i27.tinypic.com/5o8apf.jpg

Right side:
http://i26.tinypic.com/4i0y.jpg

There is very little water flowing out of any of the holes on the right
side. Another toilet on the same floor that doesn't clog also had very
little water flow on the right side.

I also checked the small hole at the bottom of the bowl with a coat
hanger. I felt the flow with my hand while the toilet was flushed so
that I could feel the pressure (nice clean bleached toilet). There
seemed to be a fairly good flow and I didn't detect any obstructions
with the hanger.

The one sheet of toilet tissue floated back up into the bowl after the
toilet was flushed.

As always, I'm open to ideas.

The bowl rim jets may be clear, but mineral deposits between the vents
can build up and restrict water flow.

IMO, try the Muriatic Acid Method.

"Muriatic Acid Method

If your toilet is extremely affected by mineral deposits and/or you're
hoping to skip the manual cleaning steps above, there is another way.
However, there are serious safety issues to consider before utilizing
this approach. Study the following steps, tips and warnings and decide
if you are capable of safely using muriatic acid (known chemically as
hydrochloric acid). Do not buy muriatic acid until you have read,
understand, and are prepared to follow all the bottle's directions and
cautions. This stuff is extremely strong! Keep it well away from
children and pets. Muriatic acid is not an option if you are on a
septic system as it will kill the bacteria which make the system work,
so you must use only "septic safe" methods and cleaners.

Turn off the water to the toilet and flush. Use a plunger and/or a
sponge and remove the water left in bowl so that the acid will clean
the bowl to the bottom (including the critical jet-hole).
Use a clear piece of poly-film (or a clear trash bag) and tape to
cover the top portion of the bowl while retaining a view of the bowl's
internal rim. The tighter the seal the better. Just cover the bowl
portion, do not include the seat.

Maximize ventilation by placing a running fan in the bathroom window
to exhaust air. Also open all other windows in the home. If you have a
bathroom exhaust fan, turn that on too.

Take off the tank cover and insert a plastic (not metal!) funnel into
the overflow tube. See the "Things You'll Need" section below about
the correct size of the funnel. If there is a fill tube on top of the
overflow tube, carefully take that off first.

Wear gloves, mask and eye protection. You should also wear an apron
and rubber boots to protect yourself. Also, you should have an equally
protected assistant firmly hold the funnel in the overflow tube so it
cannot fall out. The acid can splatter and one drip can hurt you!

Carefully pour acid through the funnel, fast enough that it begins to
flow out of the holes in the toilet bowl rim but not so fast that the
funnel overflows or falls out, as this would splash acid and be
extremely dangerous. You will only need about 0.5 to 1 gallon of acid.
After pouring, cover the overflow tube with a sandwich bag and rubber
band, then leave the bathroom and close the door behind you. Lock the
door if children are in the house and make absolutely certain they
stay away.

After 1 hour, remove the sandwich bag and replace the fill tube to the
overflow tube. (If you've chosen a weaker acid this needs to be
prolonged to at least overnight.) Turn on the water and flush a few
times. Extra flushes are advisable in older homes with iron drain
pipes, as prolonged contact with concentrated acid will damage them.
Check the rim holes for proper flow. Repeat the procedure if necessary
or if there is leftover muriatic acid, because it is not safe to store
this stuff around the house. This acid is so strong that it often eats
through the plastic container if it is stored for a long period, and
it is simply not safe to have it lying around."

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-a-Slow-Toilet

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:22:44 -0400, John wrote:

Toilet has been working fine for years. Now it won't flush solids but I
don't have any problems flushing down gallons of water.

No one else uses the toilet so no kids or pets to put anything in there.

But to be sure, I used a heavy 5' snake to make sure that nothing was in
the toilet pipes. No obstructions found as I rotated the snake.
Then I used a 25' snake. I was able to get about 15' in before I hit
the connecting pipe in the adjacent bathroom.
I can flush the toilet along with 5 gallons of water from a bucket with
no problems.
But when it comes to solid wastes or just a bunch of toilet tissues, it
clogs or a bit of toilet tissue floats on back.
Toilet plunger works the first time.

I'm not having any problems with any of the other toilets or drains.
I searched the Internet and I didn't find anyone else with a problem
similar to mine.
Any suggestions of what else I can try?

I will repost this story. It may apply.....................

I had a toilet a few years ago that had similar problems.

In the end it turned out that my teen age daughter dropped a stick
of deodorant into the toilet. Instead of doing the awful thing of
reaching into the toilet bowl she decided to just flush the problem
away. The stick made the turn around the first part of the S curve but
couldn't go any further. It was stuck in the middle of the S curve. It
was not visible and a toilet auger would just bypass it. I tied a
three prong fish hook to a sturdy string and flushed it. It would
catch something but couldn't pull it out.

I finally took the toilet outside and maneuvered a 1/4 inch rope
through the S curve and tied the rope to an old fashioned mop head. I
attempted to pull the mop head backwards through the S curve and
with it the obstruction but this didn't work either.

I still had no idea what the obstruction was. My daughter never
admitted to having any knowledge of the missing stick of deodorant.

After a few months of putting up with a toilet that would clog easily
I took matters into my own hand. HAMMER! DEODORANT! ANGRY!

After I calmed down I went to Home Depot to get a new toilet. It
was only then that I discovered that the size (3.5 gallon) and the
color (Harvest Gold) was not available. I settled for a 1.6 gallon
white Kohler.

A few years went by with my mis-matched toilet and then my neighbor
had a garage sale. In the sale he had his old 3.5 gallon Harvest Gold
toilet left over from his updated bathroom with a "free" sign on it.
Bingo. I'm back to being matched again with my 70's style bathroom.

P.S. I do not have a avocado refrigerator

The flow characteristics of the water are changed.
If a person can use a 5 gallon "mud" bucket and get
an excellent flush, but the first regular flush was "crappy"
(couldn't help myself) it's a good clue that one of the
chlorine disinfectants is at least causing some of the
problem. Perhaps even causing the rim holes to be
clogged.
Quite often, it is a reason for the need to "double-flush".

On Aug 16, 4:10*pm, aemeijers wrote:
I've never heard of
it causing problems down below, but I'm no expert.

--
aem sends...

wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:22:44 -0400, John wrote:

Toilet has been working fine for years. Now it won't flush solids but I
don't have any problems flushing down gallons of water.

No one else uses the toilet so no kids or pets to put anything in there.

But to be sure, I used a heavy 5' snake to make sure that nothing was in
the toilet pipes. No obstructions found as I rotated the snake.
Then I used a 25' snake. I was able to get about 15' in before I hit
the connecting pipe in the adjacent bathroom.
I can flush the toilet along with 5 gallons of water from a bucket with
no problems.
But when it comes to solid wastes or just a bunch of toilet tissues, it
clogs or a bit of toilet tissue floats on back.
Toilet plunger works the first time.

I'm not having any problems with any of the other toilets or drains.
I searched the Internet and I didn't find anyone else with a problem
similar to mine.
Any suggestions of what else I can try?

I will repost this story. It may apply.....................

I had a toilet a few years ago that had similar problems.

In the end it turned out that my teen age daughter dropped a stick
of deodorant into the toilet. Instead of doing the awful thing of
reaching into the toilet bowl she decided to just flush the problem
away. The stick made the turn around the first part of the S curve but
couldn't go any further. It was stuck in the middle of the S curve. It
was not visible and a toilet auger would just bypass it. I tied a
three prong fish hook to a sturdy string and flushed it. It would
catch something but couldn't pull it out.

I finally took the toilet outside and maneuvered a 1/4 inch rope
through the S curve and tied the rope to an old fashioned mop head. I
attempted to pull the mop head backwards through the S curve and
with it the obstruction but this didn't work either.

I still had no idea what the obstruction was. My daughter never
admitted to having any knowledge of the missing stick of deodorant.

After a few months of putting up with a toilet that would clog easily
I took matters into my own hand. HAMMER! DEODORANT! ANGRY!

Hulk SMASH !!! :^/
After I calmed down I went to Home Depot to get a new toilet. It
was only then that I discovered that the size (3.5 gallon) and the
color (Harvest Gold) was not available. I settled for a 1.6 gallon
white Kohler.

A few years went by with my mis-matched toilet and then my neighbor
had a garage sale. In the sale he had his old 3.5 gallon Harvest Gold
toilet left over from his updated bathroom with a "free" sign on it.
Bingo. I'm back to being matched again with my 70's style bathroom.

P.S. I do not have a avocado refrigerator

--
aem (who actually likes those 70s colors) sends...

A method that is less aggressive is to pour a cup of
white vinegar down the overflow tube at night, then
clear the openings with a .22 caliber gun cleaning brush
the next morning after the vinegar has had a chance
to soften the deposits.

On Aug 16, 4:35*pm, Oren wrote:

IMO, try the Muriatic Acid Method.

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-a-Slow-Toilet

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Michael B
wrote:

A method that is less aggressive is to pour a cup of
white vinegar down the overflow tube at night, then
clear the openings with a .22 caliber gun cleaning brush
the next morning after the vinegar has had a chance
to soften the deposits.

On Aug 16, 4:35*pm, Oren wrote:

IMO, try the Muriatic Acid Method.

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-a-Slow-Toilet

If I was to use vinegar over night I would tape the rim vents with
Duct tape, to hold it inside the bowl rim. Then you still have to fill
past the trap jet (bottom jet).

MA works faster. Fixed in a short period.

How much does a gallon of Vinegar cost compared to MA - just checkin'.

Michael B wrote:

The flow characteristics of the water are changed.
If a person can use a 5 gallon "mud" bucket and get
an excellent flush, but the first regular flush was "crappy"
(couldn't help myself) it's a good clue that one of the
chlorine disinfectants is at least causing some of the
problem. Perhaps even causing the rim holes to be
clogged.

Yep. I gave up on any of the solid tank type cleaner/disinfectant tabs for this
reason. They'd inevitably plug up the rim jets and prevent the siphon action
from starting.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:11:21 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
joevan wrote:

new wax seal

You misspelled "wax-free."

http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/wax-free-toilet-seal

I bought one, ready to put the toilet back in place.

The problem I ran into was I could not seat the thing deep enough.
Shined a light down to see an elbow curve. The wax-free just needed
about another inch to seat. I wish I could use them in my house.

Maybe they have a shorter version I need to check for. At the time
they were one size fits all.

On Aug 15, 1:22*pm, John wrote:
Toilet has been working fine for years. *Now it won't flush solids but I
don't have any problems flushing down gallons of water.

No one else uses the toilet so no kids or pets to put anything in there.

But to be sure, I used a heavy 5' snake to make sure that nothing was in
the toilet pipes. *No obstructions found as I rotated the snake.
Then I used a 25' snake. *I was able to get about 15' in before I hit
the connecting pipe in the adjacent bathroom.
I can flush the toilet along with 5 gallons of water from a bucket with
no problems.
But when it comes to solid wastes or just a bunch of toilet tissues, it
clogs or a bit of toilet tissue floats on back.
Toilet plunger works the first time.

I'm not having any problems with any of the other toilets or drains.
I searched the Internet and I didn't find anyone else with a problem
similar to mine.
Any suggestions of what else I can try?

Drink more OJ to keep your stools softer ?! ..lol...

The one toilet at my church is driving me to distraction.
After flushing, a second or two later, a bunch of shreds of
toilet paper come back into the bowl. I have not been able
to figure it out. Sloan Flushmate, wtih a pressure chamber
in the tank.

I'm also at a loss.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"John" wrote in message
...

The one sheet of toilet tissue floated back up into the bowl
after the
toilet was flushed.

As always, I'm open to ideas.

Sounds like the straight poop.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Michael B" wrote in message
...
The flow characteristics of the water are changed.
If a person can use a 5 gallon "mud" bucket and get
an excellent flush, but the first regular flush was "crappy"
(couldn't help myself) it's a good clue that one of the
chlorine disinfectants is at least causing some of the
problem. Perhaps even causing the rim holes to be
clogged.
Quite often, it is a reason for the need to "double-flush".

wrote in :

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:22:44 -0400, John wrote:

Toilet has been working fine for years. Now it won't flush solids but
I don't have any problems flushing down gallons of water.

No one else uses the toilet so no kids or pets to put anything in
there.

But to be sure, I used a heavy 5' snake to make sure that nothing was
in the toilet pipes. No obstructions found as I rotated the snake.
Then I used a 25' snake. I was able to get about 15' in before I hit
the connecting pipe in the adjacent bathroom.
I can flush the toilet along with 5 gallons of water from a bucket
with no problems.
But when it comes to solid wastes or just a bunch of toilet tissues,
it clogs or a bit of toilet tissue floats on back.
Toilet plunger works the first time.

I'm not having any problems with any of the other toilets or drains.
I searched the Internet and I didn't find anyone else with a problem
similar to mine.
Any suggestions of what else I can try?

I will repost this story. It may apply.....................

I had a toilet a few years ago that had similar problems.

In the end it turned out that my teen age daughter dropped a stick
of deodorant into the toilet. Instead of doing the awful thing of
reaching into the toilet bowl she decided to just flush the problem
away. The stick made the turn around the first part of the S curve but
couldn't go any further. It was stuck in the middle of the S curve. It
was not visible and a toilet auger would just bypass it. I tied a
three prong fish hook to a sturdy string and flushed it. It would
catch something but couldn't pull it out.

I finally took the toilet outside and maneuvered a 1/4 inch rope
through the S curve and tied the rope to an old fashioned mop head. I
attempted to pull the mop head backwards through the S curve and
with it the obstruction but this didn't work either.

I still had no idea what the obstruction was. My daughter never
admitted to having any knowledge of the missing stick of deodorant.

After a few months of putting up with a toilet that would clog easily
I took matters into my own hand. HAMMER! DEODORANT! ANGRY!

After I calmed down I went to Home Depot to get a new toilet. It
was only then that I discovered that the size (3.5 gallon) and the
color (Harvest Gold) was not available. I settled for a 1.6 gallon
white Kohler.

A few years went by with my mis-matched toilet and then my neighbor
had a garage sale. In the sale he had his old 3.5 gallon Harvest Gold
toilet left over from his updated bathroom with a "free" sign on it.
Bingo. I'm back to being matched again with my 70's style bathroom.

P.S. I do not have a avocado refrigerator


Somewhat similar story including auger part. Ended up pulling the
toilet. A toothbrush used for cleaning was in a bucket of very dirty
water and dumped. "Ooops" she said.

After a few months of putting up with a toilet that would clog easily
I took matters into my own hand. HAMMER! DEODORANT! ANGRY!
said.

Kids!

I had a variation of the problem. I ran snakes and augers down the toilet
and even ran some from the nearby bathtub.

Ended up pulling it but could see what caused the blockage. I already had
a shop vac in the room because I used it to get the last bit of water out.
On a whim I applied suction to the toilet openings and found out that the
problem was that gadget with the spring inside that the toilet paper roll
revolves about.

Having had problems with THAT toilet since. But the upstairs toilet seems
to clog about once or so each month.

Some day when I'm in a very good mood I will pull it and see what the vac
picks up. But I think I will try some suction when the toilet is still in
place.

On Saturday, August 15, 2009 at 9:32:44 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
John wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
[too many quoted lines snipped]



Good question. No, there's only one vent on the roof.

One vent stack, or one hole through the roof? Maybe the vent stacks tie
together in the attic, and the blockage is only down the leg of the
problem toilet.

--
aem sends...

One hole through the roof. The vent stacks *do* tie together in the
attic. I know, I have to step over those miserable things since I store
stuff up there. No basement.

with vent stacks tied together, one vent usually goes straight up through roof with the others meeting it. depending on the distance, if the vent isn't supported correctly, the plastic pipe can bow or sag. add in heat during summer the sagging can cause low spot that will collect and hold rain water that enters it. the more the vent sags the more constricted with rain water. supporting pipe with hangers may remedy the problem. if not a section of vent may need to be replaced along with the addition of hangers to prevent it from happening again.

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 7:30:05 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, August 15, 2009 at 9:32:44 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
John wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
[too many quoted lines snipped]



Good question. No, there's only one vent on the roof.

One vent stack, or one hole through the roof? Maybe the vent stacks tie
together in the attic, and the blockage is only down the leg of the
problem toilet.

--
aem sends...

One hole through the roof. The vent stacks *do* tie together in the
attic. I know, I have to step over those miserable things since I store
stuff up there. No basement.

with vent stacks tied together, one vent usually goes straight up through roof with the others meeting it. depending on the distance, if the vent isn't supported correctly, the plastic pipe can bow or sag. add in heat during summer the sagging can cause low spot that will collect and hold rain water that enters it. the more the vent sags the more constricted with rain water. supporting pipe with hangers may remedy the problem. if not a section of vent may need to be replaced along with the addition of hangers to prevent it from happening again.

The guy's house burned down 3 years ago so he no longer has to worry about it. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Fire Monster