I've been tolerating the ******* living under my shed since I moved in
3 years ago, because everything I've tried to do to get rid of him has
only resulted in more damage to the shed.

When I moved in he had his entrance under the front corner of the
shed. When I filled that in with rocks and broken glass, he went in
under the wall of the lean-to, and dug another hole into his burrow
from the back of the shed.

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

The bugger has gone all Hannibal Lechter on me. There was a half-
rotted possum carcass in the entrance to his burrow. I thought that
would drive 'em away, so I left it. Now it's gone.

He's always left my stuff alone, but now he's developed a taste for
gasoline. He removed the gas cap from my push mower, and chewed the
neck off the gas tank.

I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.

wrote in message
...
I've been tolerating the ******* living under my shed since I moved in
3 years ago, because everything I've tried to do to get rid of him has
only resulted in more damage to the shed.

When I moved in he had his entrance under the front corner of the
shed. When I filled that in with rocks and broken glass, he went in
under the wall of the lean-to, and dug another hole into his burrow
from the back of the shed.

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

The bugger has gone all Hannibal Lechter on me. There was a half-
rotted possum carcass in the entrance to his burrow. I thought that
would drive 'em away, so I left it. Now it's gone.

He's always left my stuff alone, but now he's developed a taste for
gasoline. He removed the gas cap from my push mower, and chewed the
neck off the gas tank.

I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.


Havahart trap. Toss trap & critter into deep water. Talk like Tony Soprano
while doing so.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
I've been tolerating the ******* living under my shed since I moved in
3 years ago, because everything I've tried to do to get rid of him has
only resulted in more damage to the shed.

When I moved in he had his entrance under the front corner of the
shed. When I filled that in with rocks and broken glass, he went in
under the wall of the lean-to, and dug another hole into his burrow
from the back of the shed.

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

The bugger has gone all Hannibal Lechter on me. There was a half-
rotted possum carcass in the entrance to his burrow. I thought that
would drive 'em away, so I left it. Now it's gone.

He's always left my stuff alone, but now he's developed a taste for
gasoline. He removed the gas cap from my push mower, and chewed the
neck off the gas tank.

I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.


Havahart trap. Toss trap & critter into deep water. Talk like Tony Soprano
while doing so.


Dittos to Havahart trap but rather then kill them, I prefer to relocate
groundhogs to a more affluent neighborhood

The one time I caught a woodchuck in a Havahart. I was going
to take him out that night. But when I went back to the cage
at o'dark thirty, someone had opened the cage and let the
critter out.

Incidentally, a 15 minute road flare was lit and stuffed
into the hole, which was then back filled with rocks and
earth. Havn't seen any more wood chuck holes.

I have the same restrictions on shooting the little furry
devil.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Frank" wrote in message
...

Dittos to Havahart trap but rather then kill them, I prefer
to relocate
groundhogs to a more affluent neighborhood

Stormin Mormon wrote:
The one time I caught a woodchuck in a Havahart. I was going
to take him out that night. But when I went back to the cage
at o'dark thirty, someone had opened the cage and let the
critter out.

Incidentally, a 15 minute road flare was lit and stuffed
into the hole, which was then back filled with rocks and
earth. Havn't seen any more wood chuck holes.

I have the same restrictions on shooting the little furry
devil.


I actually take them to parkland about 4 miles away. One neighbor
catches in his Havahart then drowns them in a garbage can.
First time I had problem I dumped a pint of chloroform down the hole and
sealed it. Then a couple of years later, groundhogs liked a spot under
stairs on a bank and I caught and released a couple but for future
deterring, I had to cement hole under stairs.

Main problem with the Havahart is you don't know what you are going to
catch. Along with groundhogs, I've caught skunks, possums, raccoons,
squirrels and birds. One week I had to make 4 trips to the park dumping
the other critters before I caught the groundhog.

I've posted this befo
http://home.comcast.net/~frank.logullo/thief.pdf

Wish I had photographed the skunks but at the time my urgency was to
release momma skunk while 4 kids were hovering around the trap.

Frank wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
I've been tolerating the ******* living under my shed since I moved in
3 years ago, because everything I've tried to do to get rid of him has
only resulted in more damage to the shed.

When I moved in he had his entrance under the front corner of the
shed. When I filled that in with rocks and broken glass, he went in
under the wall of the lean-to, and dug another hole into his burrow
from the back of the shed.

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

The bugger has gone all Hannibal Lechter on me. There was a half-
rotted possum carcass in the entrance to his burrow. I thought that
would drive 'em away, so I left it. Now it's gone.

He's always left my stuff alone, but now he's developed a taste for
gasoline. He removed the gas cap from my push mower, and chewed the
neck off the gas tank.

I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.


Havahart trap. Toss trap & critter into deep water. Talk like Tony
Soprano while doing so.

Dittos to Havahart trap but rather then kill them, I prefer to relocate
groundhogs to a more affluent neighborhood

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?

TDD

How can you call that rich? They only had a combined income
of about 4.5 million last year. That's only putting them in
the top 1%.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?

TDD

Stormin Mormon wrote:
How can you call that rich? They only had a combined income
of about 4.5 million last year. That's only putting them in
the top 1%.


Are they going to pay 95% of the taxes? *snicker*

TDD

wrote:

I've been tolerating the ******* living under my shed since I moved in
3 years ago, because everything I've tried to do to get rid of him has
only resulted in more damage to the shed.

When I moved in he had his entrance under the front corner of the
shed. When I filled that in with rocks and broken glass, he went in
under the wall of the lean-to, and dug another hole into his burrow
from the back of the shed.

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

The bugger has gone all Hannibal Lechter on me. There was a half-
rotted possum carcass in the entrance to his burrow. I thought that
would drive 'em away, so I left it. Now it's gone.

He's always left my stuff alone, but now he's developed a taste for
gasoline. He removed the gas cap from my push mower, and chewed the
neck off the gas tank.

I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.


You need someone like the groundskeeper in Caddyshack to give you some
ideas.

In article
,
wrote:

I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.

..22 shorts don't make too much noise. A single shot might startle the
close neighbors momentarily but it wouldn't attract the riot squad. When
I hear a gunshot I listen for subsequent commotion and if I hear nothing
further I don't sweat it.

On Apr 20, 11:23*am, wrote:
I've been tolerating the ******* living under my shed since I moved in
3 years ago, because everything I've tried to do to get rid of him has
only resulted in more damage to the shed.

When I moved in he had his entrance under the front corner of the
shed. When I filled that in with rocks and broken glass, he went in
under the wall of the lean-to, and dug another hole into his burrow
from the back of the shed.

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

The bugger has gone all Hannibal Lechter on me. There was a half-
rotted possum carcass in the entrance to his burrow. I thought that
would drive 'em away, so I left it. Now it's gone.

He's always left my stuff alone, but now he's developed a taste for
gasoline. He removed the gas cap from my push mower, and chewed the
neck off the gas tank.

I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.

How good of a shot are you with a pellet gun? Can you use a bow?

On Apr 20, 11:57*am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 20, 11:23*am, wrote:
I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.

How good of a shot are you with a pellet gun? *Can you use a bow?- Hide quoted text -

Is there a pellet gun out there with the knock-down power of a .22? I
know I could pick the no good rodent off with a rifle, but all my old
Daisy airgun will do is pi$$ him off. Knowing him he'd probably set
fire to the shed just for spite.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 20, 11:57 am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 20, 11:23 am, wrote:
I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.

How good of a shot are you with a pellet gun? Can you use a bow?- Hide
quoted text -

Is there a pellet gun out there with the knock-down power of a .22? I
know I could pick the no good rodent off with a rifle, but all my old
Daisy airgun will do is pi$$ him off. Knowing him he'd probably set
fire to the shed just for spite.

=============

Yes. Ask at a real gun shop. Have bail money ready for when the cops haul
you to jail and take your pellet gun. They'll listen to your story, and the
complaint from the hysterical mommy next door. They'll like her story better
because they have to.

I saw on another usenet list, a guy was out back of his
store, shooting rats with an airgun. Someone called 911
account of the guy with the "scoped sniper rifle".

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...

Yes. Ask at a real gun shop. Have bail money ready for when
the cops haul
you to jail and take your pellet gun. They'll listen to your
story, and the
complaint from the hysterical mommy next door. They'll like
her story better
because they have to.

In ,
spewed forth:
On Apr 20, 11:57 am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 20, 11:23 am, wrote:
I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.

How good of a shot are you with a pellet gun? Can you use a bow?-
Hide quoted text -

Is there a pellet gun out there with the knock-down power of a .22? I
know I could pick the no good rodent off with a rifle, but all my old
Daisy airgun will do is pi$$ him off. Knowing him he'd probably set
fire to the shed just for spite.

go find some sub sonic 22s
no noise

What? I didn't hear you?

http://www.nles.com/store/files/images/thumbs/z132.jpg

See image above for smiley face, but I didn't hear a thing.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"ChairMan" wrote in message
g.com...

go find some sub sonic 22s
no noise

wrote:

-snip-
Is there a pellet gun out there with the knock-down power of a .22? I
know I could pick the no good rodent off with a rifle, but all my old
Daisy airgun will do is pi$$ him off. Knowing him he'd probably set
fire to the shed just for spite.

$100 at your local Walmart-
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5913352

Mine accounts for about 100 squirrels a year- and a few rabbits and a
couple woodchucks.

First shot sounded like a 22 long rifle- as the oil got cleaned out it
calmed down to pellet-gun level noise. I tossed the scope & find
the gun accurate as all get-out to 100feet or so which is all I need.
After shooting mostly squirrels, the head on a woodchuck or rabbit
looks huge at that range.

On a related note- can an air-gun kill a woodchuck? Sure. How about a
buffalo?
http://www.bigboreairguns.com/07bisonhunt.htm
[a 457 air gun with a 510grain bullet]

Jim

wrote:
On Apr 20, 11:57 am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 20, 11:23 am, wrote:
I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.
How good of a shot are you with a pellet gun? Can you use a bow?- Hide quoted text -

Is there a pellet gun out there with the knock-down power of a .22? I
know I could pick the no good rodent off with a rifle, but all my old
Daisy airgun will do is pi$$ him off. Knowing him he'd probably set
fire to the shed just for spite.


http://www.midwayusa.com/Eproductpag...eitemid=678232

"George" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Apr 20, 11:57 am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 20, 11:23 am, wrote:
I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.
How good of a shot are you with a pellet gun? Can you use a bow?- Hide
quoted text -

Is there a pellet gun out there with the knock-down power of a .22? I
know I could pick the no good rodent off with a rifle, but all my old
Daisy airgun will do is pi$$ him off. Knowing him he'd probably set
fire to the shed just for spite.


http://www.midwayusa.com/Eproductpag...eitemid=678232

I have shot some similar to that in a bolt action 22 and it seems like the
bullet hitting the dirt about 20 yards away made more noise than the actual
shooting.

Some of the pellet guns have plenty of energy to kill the woodchuck. When I
was growing up in the city my dad and I shot a bunch of squirrls out of a
pecan tree in the back yard with a Crossman 22 pump up gun.

They do make .22 caliber air rifles.

As to the Crossman type, use pointy tip pellets. They
penetrate better. You can shoot squirrels off the trees with
a pointy pellet. Uhm. Er. I mean "I've heard you can....."
you know.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

Is there a pellet gun out there with the knock-down power of
a .22? I
know I could pick the no good rodent off with a rifle, but
all my old
Daisy airgun will do is pi$$ him off. Knowing him he'd
probably set
fire to the shed just for spite.

wrote:

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

Dump a bunch of moth-balls or moth-flakes in there, no critters seem to
enjoy that smell, I've seen it get rid of everything from possums to snakes.

"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...
wrote:

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

Dump a bunch of moth-balls or moth-flakes in there, no critters seem to
enjoy that smell, I've seen it get rid of everything from possums to
snakes.



I'm fascinated by his propane idea. Imagine the sit-com potential.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:27:46 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I'm fascinated by his propane idea. Imagine the sit-com potential.

Enter the Rodenator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re2FHX6NyaY

On Apr 20, 1:27*pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
I'm fascinated by his propane idea. Imagine the sit-com potential.

Propane being heavier than air will sink to the bottom of the hole and
push all the breathable air out. Put enough propane in and it won't
ignite for love or money because there's no oxygen for it to burn
with.

Propane sufffocates the occupant. Cover the hole. Problem solved,
except that this mofo has got to be the T1000 terminator of
woodchucks.

If I hear a metallick "TING" when I plug him with the pellet gun, and
he looks up at me with this big liquid metal hole where his eye used
to be, I'm coming to live with you.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

Dump a bunch of moth-balls or moth-flakes in there, no critters seem
to enjoy that smell, I've seen it get rid of everything from possums
to snakes.



I'm fascinated by his propane idea. Imagine the sit-com potential.

"Dang-it Cletus I cain't see if he's dead or not, hand me yer lighter so I
kin git a better look...."

Was that Bill Murray's character name? I hear a Darwin
award.

One of my favs, was the guys who tried to siphon gas out of
a motor home, but dipped the sewage tank by mistake.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...

I'm fascinated by his propane idea. Imagine the sit-com
potential.

"Dang-it Cletus I cain't see if he's dead or not, hand me
yer lighter so I
kin git a better look...."

on 4/20/2009 7:17 PM (ET) Stormin Mormon wrote the following:
Was that Bill Murray's character name?

No. His character was named Carl Spackler

I hear a Darwin
award.

One of my favs, was the guys who tried to siphon gas out of
a motor home, but dipped the sewage tank by mistake.




--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

This method may work and sudsy ammonia is cheap enough.

http://www.wikihow.com/Get-Rid-of-Groundhogs

Phisherman wrote in
:

This method may work and sudsy ammonia is cheap enough.

http://www.wikihow.com/Get-Rid-of-Groundhogs

Because ammonia is very alkaline, it may not be good for plants. On the
other hand, it is almost pure nitrogen, so maybe eventually it is good - it
may absorb CO2, yielding ammonium bicarbonate (but likely that is only in
principle).

I'd first try the mothballs.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

wrote:
I've been tolerating the ******* living under my shed since I moved in
3 years ago, because everything I've tried to do to get rid of him has
only resulted in more damage to the shed.

From another newsgroup:

--- begin quote

"No one knows when the first rabbit appeared on [University of Victoria]
campus, but an estimated 1,500 of them currently call it home. The
university has come under pressure to cull the animals by angry neighbours
but how that might be accomplished is fuelling a raging debate.

"Proponents of the doomsday approach have taken a shine to something called
the Rodenator."

Heh!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...bits-uvic.html

File picture of rabbit
http://akosut.com/log/img/FLUFFY%20BABY%20BUNNY.jpg

--- end quote

Rodenator home page with video
http://www.rodenator.com/pests-contr...eos-rodenators

I don't see why you can't make your own "rodenator" with a tank of propane
(or MAPP gas) and some Oxygen*. In olden days, we used to deal with rat
tunnels by:

1. Throw a few chunks of Calcium carbide down the tunnel.
2. Add water.
3. Temporarily block opening.
4. Wait about a minute
5. Throw a match down the hole, igniting the acetylene.

Years ago, I was visiting the Audubon Society of Western Pennsylvania and
was introduced to their semi-pet groundhog, Harriet. We don't have
groundhogs in my part of Texas, so I offered to trade a Pennsylvania
groundhog for a Texas armadillo.

"Good God, NO!" said the excited executive director.

"Uh, why not?" said I.

"Can you imagine what the granny-ladies who are walking our nature trails
would do if an armadillo suddenly waddled out in front of them? We'd had
dead grannies littering the paths!"


--------
Figuring out the igniter would be fun: The first thought that comes to mind
is a spark plug, some long wires, and a salvaged ignition coil...

wrote:
I've been tolerating the ******* living under my shed since I moved in
3 years ago, because everything I've tried to do to get rid of him has
only resulted in more damage to the shed.

When I moved in he had his entrance under the front corner of the
shed. When I filled that in with rocks and broken glass, he went in
under the wall of the lean-to, and dug another hole into his burrow
from the back of the shed.

I've tried gassing him with propane. I've tried all the folk
repellants. Apparently he likes being clean and eating spicy food,
because neither irish spring soap nor cayenne pepper phased him.

The bugger has gone all Hannibal Lechter on me. There was a half-
rotted possum carcass in the entrance to his burrow. I thought that
would drive 'em away, so I left it. Now it's gone.

He's always left my stuff alone, but now he's developed a taste for
gasoline. He removed the gas cap from my push mower, and chewed the
neck off the gas tank.

I'd love to sit on my back porch and pick him off with a rifle, but
discharge of firearms is a big no-no.

A 22 cal "CB cap" would do the job quietly and efficiently. These are
more powerful than most air rifles and less powerful/noisy than a 22
short. They are pretty nearly silent. You are still discharging a
firearm though. In fact here in the police state of NJ shooting an air
gun is legally classified as discharging a firearm...go figure.

I had one who decided to burrow down beside my house. I tried everything
to get him to leave. I finally saturated a towel with household ammonia
and forced it down his hole with a long stick..then poured the rest of
the gallon in. After I did this two or three times the little bugger left.

YMMV,
EJ in NJ

In , Ernie Willson wrote:

A 22 cal "CB cap" would do the job quietly and efficiently. These are
more powerful than most air rifles and less powerful/noisy than a 22
short. They are pretty nearly silent. You are still discharging a
firearm though. In fact here in the police state of NJ shooting an air
gun is legally classified as discharging a firearm...go figure.

Use of an air gun is legally classified as use of a firearm?

Does that mean it is legal to use an air gun where it is legal to use
a "real gun" in NJ? And illegal to use an air gun in place of a "real
gun" to be used illegally?

Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes the
crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?

Meanwhile, it appears to me that in at least most of the 50 States
shooting of varmints and for that matter "plinking" with "real guns" is
not prohibited nor badly regulated by state law. And it appears to me
that prohibitions on discharging firearms in general are municipal laws
and not state ones.

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:
In , Ernie Willson wrote:

A 22 cal "CB cap" would do the job quietly and efficiently. These are
more powerful than most air rifles and less powerful/noisy than a 22
short. They are pretty nearly silent. You are still discharging a
firearm though. In fact here in the police state of NJ shooting an air
gun is legally classified as discharging a firearm...go figure.

Use of an air gun is legally classified as use of a firearm?

Does that mean it is legal to use an air gun where it is legal to use
a "real gun" in NJ? And illegal to use an air gun in place of a "real
gun" to be used illegally?

Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes the
crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?

Meanwhile, it appears to me that in at least most of the 50 States
shooting of varmints and for that matter "plinking" with "real guns" is
not prohibited nor badly regulated by state law. And it appears to me
that prohibitions on discharging firearms in general are municipal laws
and not state ones.

- Don Klipstein )

In the state of New jersey, air guns, BB guns and CO2 guns are legally
classified as firearms and all the rules for firearms pertain to them.

If you use a BB gun (or pellet gun etc.) in the commission of a crime
and you are subject to the same penalty as if you had used a "real" gun.

Also FYI, slingshots are illegal here.

I didn't write the laws, I just live with them.

I have seen a person dragged into court for illegally carrying a
firearm, when he had an unloaded Daisy Red Rider BB gun in his trunk.

I strongly suggest that people should never drive through this state
with a firearm (as defined by NJ) in their car, or on their your person.

EJ in NJ

In , Ernie Willson wrote
in part:

Don Klipstein wrote:
In , Ernie Willson wrote:
(I edit for space)
In fact here in the police state of NJ shooting an air
gun is legally classified as discharging a firearm...go figure.

Use of an air gun is legally classified as use of a firearm?

Does that mean it is legal to use an air gun where it is legal to use
a "real gun" in NJ? And illegal to use an air gun in place of a "real
gun" to be used illegally?

Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes the
crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?

Meanwhile, it appears to me that in at least most of the 50 States
shooting of varmints and for that matter "plinking" with "real guns" is
not prohibited nor badly regulated by state law. And it appears to me
that prohibitions on discharging firearms in general are municipal laws
and not state ones.

- Don Klipstein )

In the state of New jersey, air guns, BB guns and CO2 guns are legally
classified as firearms and all the rules for firearms pertain to them.

If you use a BB gun (or pellet gun etc.) in the commission of a crime
and you are subject to the same penalty as if you had used a "real" gun.

Also FYI, slingshots are illegal here.

I didn't write the laws, I just live with them.

I have seen a person dragged into court for illegally carrying a
firearm, when he had an unloaded Daisy Red Rider BB gun in his trunk.

I tried a few seconds with Google, and that appears to me to be a "long
gun" resembling a rifle. New Jersey has a law against carrying even so
much as an unloaded .30-06 in the trunk of a car?

Although I am aware of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...ates_(by_state)

saying that New Jersey gun owners are required to get a purchase permit
(good for life) to purchase handguns, rifles or shotguns.

I strongly suggest that people should never drive through this state
with a firearm (as defined by NJ) in their car, or on their your person.

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:

Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes
the crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?


It's the same crime. The determination is in the "eye of the beholder." If
the victim thinks you have a gun, as far as the law is concerned, you have a
gun.

A finger-in-the-jacket is an "armed robbery" if the victim believes you have
a gun. If you pass a note to the bank teller saying "Give me the money or
I'll shoot you," you have committed an "armed robbery."

In the specific case of New Jersey, however, it doesn't make any difference
at all:

"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun,
assault firearm, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or
instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any
solid projectile, ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor
or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of
an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall
also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an
air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which
the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed
or other gas, or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed
air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

I think rubber-band guns are okay.

HeyBub wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes
the crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?


It's the same crime. The determination is in the "eye of the beholder." If
the victim thinks you have a gun, as far as the law is concerned, you have a
gun.

A finger-in-the-jacket is an "armed robbery" if the victim believes you have
a gun. If you pass a note to the bank teller saying "Give me the money or
I'll shoot you," you have committed an "armed robbery."

In the specific case of New Jersey, however, it doesn't make any difference
at all:

"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun,
assault firearm, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or
instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any
solid projectile, ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor
or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of
an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall
also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an
air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which
the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed
or other gas, or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed
air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

I think rubber-band guns are okay.


Hey bub,

Good reply..note that "elastic band" guns are "firearms" under NJ law
(4th line from bottom). I think that rubber-band guns would be included
under them. The *******s that write this tripe don't miss a trick.

I wonder if blow guns are "firearms" because they are propelled by your
breath which contains CO2 :^).

EJ in NJ

On Apr 21, 8:32*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

*Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes
the crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?

It's the same crime. The determination is in the "eye of the beholder." If
the victim thinks you have a gun, as far as the law is concerned, you have a
gun.

A finger-in-the-jacket is an "armed robbery" if the victim believes you have
a gun. If you pass a note to the bank teller saying "Give me the money or
I'll shoot you," you have committed an "armed robbery."

In the specific case of New Jersey, however, it doesn't make any difference
at all:

"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun,
assault firearm, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or
instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any
solid projectile, ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor
or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of
an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. *It shall
also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an
air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which
the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed
or other gas, or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed
air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

I think rubber-band guns are okay.

So let me get this right, it's illegal in NJ to possess a drinking
straw because it COULD be used to shoot a spitball.

"Child arrested for illegal possession of a spitball shooter, film at
11".

Tony Soprano is spinning in his grave.

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:01:13 -0700 (PDT), Pat
wrote:

On Apr 21, 8:32*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

*Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes
the crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?

It's the same crime. The determination is in the "eye of the beholder." If
the victim thinks you have a gun, as far as the law is concerned, you have a
gun.

A finger-in-the-jacket is an "armed robbery" if the victim believes you have
a gun. If you pass a note to the bank teller saying "Give me the money or
I'll shoot you," you have committed an "armed robbery."

In the specific case of New Jersey, however, it doesn't make any difference
at all:

"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun,
assault firearm, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or
instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any
solid projectile, ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor
or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of
an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. *It shall
also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an
air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which
the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed
or other gas, or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed
air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

I think rubber-band guns are okay.

So let me get this right, it's illegal in NJ to possess a drinking
straw because it COULD be used to shoot a spitball.

"Child arrested for illegal possession of a spitball shooter, film at
11".

Tony Soprano is spinning in his grave.

A straw is a Pea-Shooter. Shoots small beans or peas. Spit balls are a
single page of writing tablet that sticks to the blackboard.

Paper clips and rubber bands, they call your mother!!

In , Pat
wrote:

On Apr 21, 8:32*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

*Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes
the crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?

It's the same crime. The determination is in the "eye of the beholder." If
the victim thinks you have a gun, as far as the law is concerned, you have a
gun.

A finger-in-the-jacket is an "armed robbery" if the victim believes you have
a gun. If you pass a note to the bank teller saying "Give me the money or
I'll shoot you," you have committed an "armed robbery."

In the specific case of New Jersey, however, it doesn't make any difference
at all:

"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun,
assault firearm, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or
instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any
solid projectile, ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor
or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of
an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. *It shall
also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an
air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which
the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed
or other gas, or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed
air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

I think rubber-band guns are okay.

So let me get this right, it's illegal in NJ to possess a drinking
straw because it COULD be used to shoot a spitball.

"Child arrested for illegal possession of a spitball shooter, film at
11".

Tony Soprano is spinning in his grave.

I think that the courts in NJ are reasonable enough to throw such a case
out.

Should the charge be a felony one, I think even a juvenile can get a
jury trial especially if "charged as an adult". And I suspect that the
jurors will find in favor of the defendant and against the prosecution for
wasting their time by calling them onto jury duty for such a matter.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , HeyBub wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

Does this only mean that use of an air gun to commit a crime makes
the crime a "gun crime", or is it worse?


It's the same crime. The determination is in the "eye of the beholder." If
the victim thinks you have a gun, as far as the law is concerned, you have a
gun.

A finger-in-the-jacket is an "armed robbery" if the victim believes you have
a gun. If you pass a note to the bank teller saying "Give me the money or
I'll shoot you," you have committed an "armed robbery."

In the specific case of New Jersey, however, it doesn't make any difference
at all:

"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun,
assault firearm, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or
instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any
solid projectile, ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor
or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of
an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall
also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an
air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which
the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed
or other gas, or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed
air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

I think rubber-band guns are okay.

So it sounds to me that in NJ, committing a crime that violates state
laws with a BB gun amounts to committing a gun crime. That sounds fair to
me.

Meanwhile, it appears to me that a BB gun that resembles a rifle is no
worse regulated or restricted in NJ than a real rifle is.

And it appears to me that the lifetime firearm purchase permit that NJ
requires probably applies as stated by Wiki to pistols, rifles and
shotguns - as in "real guns" as opposed to everything that if used to
commit a crime in NJ would make the crime a "gun crime".

- Don Klipstein )