just got a motion detector to secure the side of my property, the
china made motion detector has braided aluminum wires I haven't seen
anything made with aluminum wires in years for modern electronics?

any advice

On 3/4/2009 10:04 AM flir67 spake thus:

just got a motion detector to secure the side of my property, the
china made motion detector has braided aluminum wires I haven't seen
anything made with aluminum wires in years for modern electronics?

What makes you think they're aluminum? They're probably shiny
silver-looking, which is what most small stranded wire looks like when
you strip it. But probably not aluminum, so just go ahead and use it.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/4/2009 10:04 AM flir67 spake thus:

just got a motion detector to secure the side of my property, the
china made motion detector has braided aluminum wires I haven't seen
anything made with aluminum wires in years for modern electronics?

What makes you think they're aluminum? They're probably shiny
silver-looking, which is what most small stranded wire looks like when
you strip it. But probably not aluminum, so just go ahead and use it.


This may strike you as a bit odd and you may think
I'm pulling your leg but this is a true story.
Back in 1974 I was working for an electrical supply
house when aluminum Romex was being sold. We also
had copper clad aluminum Romex which had thin copper
layer over the aluminum center. One day we got in a
roll of 18 gauge thermostat wire that freaked me out.
When I picked up reel, it was very light. It was like
picking up a porous fire brick and expecting the weight
of a standard brick. I stripped back the wire and
found it to be copper clad aluminum. I've never seen
aluminum electrical wire that small again. It wouldn't
surprise me if the Chinese have developed very small
aluminum wire because of the high cost of copper.

TDD

In article , flir67 wrote:
just got a motion detector to secure the side of my property, the
china made motion detector has braided aluminum wires I haven't seen
anything made with aluminum wires in years for modern electronics?

It's much more likely to be tin-plated copper, or a tin-copper alloy. If
you're worried, see if you can solder it with tin-lead solder -- if you can,
it's not aluminum.

thanks for all the help, got another problem, the junction box is
smaller than the new ones. the house was built in 1979. the screw
pattern of this new light faceplate doesn't fit the old box. is their
any retro fitting available or a face plate to convert the old to the
new. removing the box is not possible. its cemented into the brick
wall.

flir67 wrote:
thanks for all the help, got another problem, the junction box is
smaller than the new ones. the house was built in 1979. the screw
pattern of this new light faceplate doesn't fit the old box. is their
any retro fitting available or a face plate to convert the old to the
new. removing the box is not possible. its cemented into the brick
wall.


What are the dimensions of the existing box?
Is it round, square or octagon?

TDD

On 3/4/2009 12:51 PM flir67 spake thus:

thanks for all the help, got another problem, the junction box is
smaller than the new ones. the house was built in 1979. the screw
pattern of this new light faceplate doesn't fit the old box. is their
any retro fitting available or a face plate to convert the old to the
new. removing the box is not possible. its cemented into the brick
wall.

What you need is a "universal crossbar", available just about
everywhere. It's a circular plate with lots of holes and cutouts, made
to mount light fixtures of any screw spacing to boxes of any screw spacing.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

What you need is a "universal crossbar", available just about
everywhere. It's a circular plate with lots of holes and cutouts, made
to mount light fixtures of any screw spacing to boxes of any screw spacing.

thanks, you really know what your talking about. I found a kind of
"universal crossbar box extender that has the old work and the new
work holes. this should work fine. thanks again.

The Daring Dufas wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 3/4/2009 10:04 AM flir67 spake thus:

just got a motion detector to secure the side of my property, the
china made motion detector has braided aluminum wires I haven't seen
anything made with aluminum wires in years for modern electronics?


What makes you think they're aluminum? They're probably shiny
silver-looking, which is what most small stranded wire looks like when
you strip it. But probably not aluminum, so just go ahead and use it.


This may strike you as a bit odd and you may think
I'm pulling your leg but this is a true story.
Back in 1974 I was working for an electrical supply
house when aluminum Romex was being sold. We also
had copper clad aluminum Romex which had thin copper
layer over the aluminum center. One day we got in a
roll of 18 gauge thermostat wire that freaked me out.
When I picked up reel, it was very light. It was like
picking up a porous fire brick and expecting the weight
of a standard brick. I stripped back the wire and
found it to be copper clad aluminum. I've never seen
aluminum electrical wire that small again. It wouldn't
surprise me if the Chinese have developed very small
aluminum wire because of the high cost of copper.

TDD


Back around 40 years ago I remember when the price of copper rose to a
point where I started seeing TV CRT yokes and power transformers wound
with aluminum magnet wire.

About 20 years ago the fan in the microwave oven we had back then
stopped working. I found that the shaded pole motor winding was aluminum
magnet wire and one end of the winding had broken loose from the
terminal lug it was crimped under. I reconnected it it with a dab of
conductive epoxy and it held up fine for several years until the
magnetron gave out and we got a new microwave oven.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 3/4/2009 10:04 AM flir67 spake thus:

just got a motion detector to secure the side of my property, the
china made motion detector has braided aluminum wires I haven't seen
anything made with aluminum wires in years for modern electronics?


What makes you think they're aluminum? They're probably shiny
silver-looking, which is what most small stranded wire looks like
when you strip it. But probably not aluminum, so just go ahead and
use it.


This may strike you as a bit odd and you may think
I'm pulling your leg but this is a true story.
Back in 1974 I was working for an electrical supply
house when aluminum Romex was being sold. We also
had copper clad aluminum Romex which had thin copper
layer over the aluminum center. One day we got in a
roll of 18 gauge thermostat wire that freaked me out.
When I picked up reel, it was very light. It was like
picking up a porous fire brick and expecting the weight
of a standard brick. I stripped back the wire and
found it to be copper clad aluminum. I've never seen
aluminum electrical wire that small again. It wouldn't
surprise me if the Chinese have developed very small
aluminum wire because of the high cost of copper.

TDD


Back around 40 years ago I remember when the price of copper rose to a
point where I started seeing TV CRT yokes and power transformers wound
with aluminum magnet wire.

About 20 years ago the fan in the microwave oven we had back then
stopped working. I found that the shaded pole motor winding was aluminum
magnet wire and one end of the winding had broken loose from the
terminal lug it was crimped under. I reconnected it it with a dab of
conductive epoxy and it held up fine for several years until the
magnetron gave out and we got a new microwave oven.

Jeff


A lot of the big wire I've run has been aluminum.
The city electrical code around here prohibits any
aluminum conductors smaller than #2 in house wiring.
All the drops from the power company are aluminum
and there are few problems with properly installed
wiring of that type. The stuff I've seen burn up
was because of the wrong type of connectors, devices
and lack of anti-oxidation compound. Ignorance kills.

TDD

On 3/4/2009 10:36 PM The Daring Dufas spake thus:

A lot of the big wire I've run has been aluminum.
The city electrical code around here prohibits any
aluminum conductors smaller than #2 in house wiring.
All the drops from the power company are aluminum
and there are few problems with properly installed
wiring of that type. The stuff I've seen burn up
was because of the wrong type of connectors, devices
and lack of anti-oxidation compound. Ignorance kills.

I'd never use aluminum in my own work. Not that there's anything
intrinsically wrong with it, as you describe; just that I'm not
experienced enough with it not to worry about problems.

Hasn't the cost of copper dropped over the last few months (along with
oil)? According to Bloomberg, it's selling for about $168 a pound
(copper futures: http://bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/cfutures.html).


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/4/2009 10:36 PM The Daring Dufas spake thus:

A lot of the big wire I've run has been aluminum.
The city electrical code around here prohibits any
aluminum conductors smaller than #2 in house wiring.
All the drops from the power company are aluminum
and there are few problems with properly installed
wiring of that type. The stuff I've seen burn up
was because of the wrong type of connectors, devices
and lack of anti-oxidation compound. Ignorance kills.

I'd never use aluminum in my own work. Not that there's anything
intrinsically wrong with it, as you describe; just that I'm not
experienced enough with it not to worry about problems.

Hasn't the cost of copper dropped over the last few months (along with
oil)? According to Bloomberg, it's selling for about $168 a pound
(copper futures: http://bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/cfutures.html).



The price for a number of items manufactured with copper
hasn't dropped yet. Last week, I replaced a 90 volt DC drive
motor for a good customer and because of the high price, I
told him where to get it so I wouldn't have to mark it up.
A few years ago, the same motor cost around $300.00 and this
newest one was more than $500.00. Even with the lower cost
of things, nobody's spending any money. Perhaps if BeeHO would
shut up, the market would quit dropping and the economy would
perk up. We need some work! Money stimulates my package.
*snicker*

TDD

On Mar 5, 4:35*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/4/2009 10:36 PM The Daring Dufas spake thus:

A lot of the big wire I've run has been aluminum.
The city electrical code around here prohibits any
aluminum conductors smaller than #2 in house wiring.
All the drops from the power company are aluminum
and there are few problems with properly installed
wiring of that type. The stuff I've seen burn up
was because of the wrong type of connectors, devices
and lack of anti-oxidation compound. Ignorance kills.

I'd never use aluminum in my own work. Not that there's anything
intrinsically wrong with it, as you describe; just that I'm not
experienced enough with it not to worry about problems.

Hasn't the cost of copper dropped over the last few months (along with
oil)? According to Bloomberg, it's selling for about $168 a pound
(copper futures:http://bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/cfutures.html)..

The price for a number of items manufactured with copper
hasn't dropped yet. Last week, I replaced a 90 volt DC drive
motor for a good customer and because of the high price, I
told him where to get it so I wouldn't have to mark it up.
A few years ago, the same motor cost around $300.00 and this
newest one was more than $500.00. Even with the lower cost
of things, nobody's spending any money. Perhaps if BeeHO would
shut up, the market would quit dropping and the economy would
perk up. We need some work! Money stimulates my package.
*snicker*

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

'Braided' wires ????????
Maybe that means flexible wire with a number of smaller strands making
up the total cross section of the conductor?

For example a 'solid' 18 AWG low voltage wire has one conductor, a
'stranded' 18 AWG might have say six or 10 smaller conductors.

And if they are tin-plated they might 'look' like aluminum wire.
Plated wire is often used for more corrosive situations such as marine
environment/boats.

OTOH they 'might' be aluminum? If so interesting for small gauge
wiring.

Al house wiring fell into disrepute back in the 1970s after various
problems with it, including fires. It had been used also in mobile/
portable homes where seemingly vibration and loosening of connections
became more of a problem than with fixed residential.

Another problem was (and is) that the average do it your selfer buying
a replacement outlet or switch 'at the store' may not appreciate that
replacements for aluminum wired installations must be compatible.
After a while the softer than copper Al wire crushes a little, a loose
connections occurs and then failure and?or heat then possibly fire.

On Mar 5, 12:59*am, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 3/4/2009 10:04 AM flir67 spake thus:

just got a motion detector to secure the side of my property, the
china made motion detector has braided aluminum wires I haven't seen
anything made with aluminum wires in years for modern electronics?

What makes you think they're aluminum? They're probably shiny
silver-looking, which is what most small stranded wire looks like when
you strip it. But probably not aluminum, so just go ahead and use it.

This may strike you as a bit odd and you may think
I'm pulling your leg but this is a true story.
Back in 1974 I was working for an electrical supply
house when aluminum Romex was being sold. We also
had copper clad aluminum Romex which had thin copper
layer over the aluminum center. One day we got in a
roll of 18 gauge thermostat wire that freaked me out.
When I picked up reel, it was very light. It was like
picking up a porous fire brick and expecting the weight
of a standard brick. I stripped back the wire and
found it to be copper clad aluminum. I've never seen
aluminum electrical wire that small again. It wouldn't
surprise me if the Chinese have developed very small
aluminum wire because of the high cost of copper.

TDD

Back around 40 years ago I remember when the price of copper rose to a
point where I started seeing TV CRT yokes and power transformers wound
with aluminum magnet wire.

About 20 years ago the fan in the microwave oven we had back then
stopped working. I found that the shaded pole motor winding was aluminum
magnet wire and one end of the winding had broken loose from the
terminal lug it was crimped under. I reconnected it it with a dab of
conductive epoxy and it held up fine for several years until the
magnetron gave out and we got a new microwave oven.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Conductive epoxy eh?????
Thanks for the tip .............. hadn't heard of that before.
Terry.

stan wrote:
On Mar 5, 4:35 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/4/2009 10:36 PM The Daring Dufas spake thus:
A lot of the big wire I've run has been aluminum.
The city electrical code around here prohibits any
aluminum conductors smaller than #2 in house wiring.
All the drops from the power company are aluminum
and there are few problems with properly installed
wiring of that type. The stuff I've seen burn up
was because of the wrong type of connectors, devices
and lack of anti-oxidation compound. Ignorance kills.
I'd never use aluminum in my own work. Not that there's anything
intrinsically wrong with it, as you describe; just that I'm not
experienced enough with it not to worry about problems.
Hasn't the cost of copper dropped over the last few months (along with
oil)? According to Bloomberg, it's selling for about $168 a pound
(copper futures:http://bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/cfutures.html).
The price for a number of items manufactured with copper
hasn't dropped yet. Last week, I replaced a 90 volt DC drive
motor for a good customer and because of the high price, I
told him where to get it so I wouldn't have to mark it up.
A few years ago, the same motor cost around $300.00 and this
newest one was more than $500.00. Even with the lower cost
of things, nobody's spending any money. Perhaps if BeeHO would
shut up, the market would quit dropping and the economy would
perk up. We need some work! Money stimulates my package.
*snicker*

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

'Braided' wires ????????
Maybe that means flexible wire with a number of smaller strands making
up the total cross section of the conductor?

For example a 'solid' 18 AWG low voltage wire has one conductor, a
'stranded' 18 AWG might have say six or 10 smaller conductors.

And if they are tin-plated they might 'look' like aluminum wire.
Plated wire is often used for more corrosive situations such as marine
environment/boats.

OTOH they 'might' be aluminum? If so interesting for small gauge
wiring.

Al house wiring fell into disrepute back in the 1970s after various
problems with it, including fires. It had been used also in mobile/
portable homes where seemingly vibration and loosening of connections
became more of a problem than with fixed residential.

Another problem was (and is) that the average do it your selfer buying
a replacement outlet or switch 'at the store' may not appreciate that
replacements for aluminum wired installations must be compatible.
After a while the softer than copper Al wire crushes a little, a loose
connections occurs and then failure and?or heat then possibly fire.

I've done a lot of repairs and retrofits to homes
that were originally wired with aluminum Romex and
it can be a real chore. Instead of replacing all of
the wiring devices with cu/al types I've been using
the special connectors and copper pigtails. This
approach seems to work out better. My favorite wire
to work with when building electronic gizmos in my
mad scientist lab, is the mil spec Teflon insulated
silver plated stranded wire. It solders so easily
but I can only afford it if I can find it surplus
or at a Hamfest.

TDD

On Mar 4, 9:59*pm, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

snip

Some years ago Bosch had the bright idea to save money by using
aluminum wire wound starter solenoids. The failure rate was
predictably high and our repair shop made out very well doing copper
wound replacements that quickly appeared. Aluminum is a dandy material
for all kinds of things if you respect its inherent properties.

Joe

On 3/5/2009 8:17 AM Joe spake thus:

On Mar 4, 9:59 pm, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

snip

Some years ago Bosch had the bright idea to save money by using
aluminum wire wound starter solenoids. The failure rate was
predictably high and our repair shop made out very well doing copper
wound replacements that quickly appeared. Aluminum is a dandy material
for all kinds of things if you respect its inherent properties.

I hear it makes great rocket fuel.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)