We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

On Feb 21, 11:10*am, Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. *If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Krylon only sells about 100 different coatings for various
applications, all of which are light on pigment and heavy on solvent.

WAGs- temperature, humidity.
----

- gpsman

Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

Your description sounds like orange peel. You can google it up for ways
to avoid or correct. I strongly suspect you put on too thick a paint
layer. Lot of time it just takes several fine coats to avoid this.
Make sure you have adequate drying time between coats. May only take a
few minutes. Not sure if Krylon, as with other paints, is reformulated
to lower VOC's, volatile organic compounds, and if so drying time
between coats would probably be longer.

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?



*I couldn't say for sure, but I am thinking that the resins in the wood have
some affect on the paint. You could try using a primer. I think that
Krylon puts a helpline telephone number on their products. Try calling
them.

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

Depends on the particular formula, but it is often better to repaint either
before or after after some specified curing time. What does the can say?

One can I just looked at says "Recoat before 24 hours or after 7 days"
Another says recoat any time.

Also., putting on coats too heavy makes it worse.

On Feb 21, 10:10*am, Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. *If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

try a primer

On Feb 21, 10:10*am, Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. *If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

Read can on recoat time, in minutes or hours , if you do it wrong
solvents eat the first coat. But primer is smart if wood isnt cured or
has oils.

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:41:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

Depends on the particular formula, but it is often better to repaint either
before or after after some specified curing time. What does the can say?

One can I just looked at says "Recoat before 24 hours or after 7 days"
Another says recoat any time.

Also., putting on coats too heavy makes it worse.

We are doing light coats and it says to recoat within 1 hour or after 24
hours. There is no problem with doing the recoat within 1 hour. The
problem is when waiting for more that 24 hours. This is on top of 2-3
light coats of primer.

Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If
we let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on
the cars. Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

Alligatoring - AKA reticulation - occurs when a new coat is put on one that
is not yet dry...the surface of the new coat dries rapidly but the coat
under it continues to dry over time and as it does so the newer top coat
shrinks and crinkles. The first coat may *seem* dry but is not.

I never used to have this problem with spray paints but sometimes do now.
Seems to vary by brand too. I don't know what changes have been made in the
formulation to cause the problem but - perhaps - the type/amount of solvent.
Perhaps the solvent nowadays softens - thus expanding- the first coat.

The only solution I have found is to spary ALL coats in the first couple of
hours OR wait several days before re-spraying.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:21:45 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If
we let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on
the cars. Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

Alligatoring - AKA reticulation - occurs when a new coat is put on one that
is not yet dry...the surface of the new coat dries rapidly but the coat
under it continues to dry over time and as it does so the newer top coat
shrinks and crinkles. The first coat may *seem* dry but is not.

I never used to have this problem with spray paints but sometimes do now.
Seems to vary by brand too. I don't know what changes have been made in the
formulation to cause the problem but - perhaps - the type/amount of solvent.
Perhaps the solvent nowadays softens - thus expanding- the first coat.

The only solution I have found is to spary ALL coats in the first couple of
hours OR wait several days before re-spraying.

One of the cars in question was not painted for a whole week. When sprayed
within an hour or so it is fine. Spraying over the primer is fine. A
second or third color coat after 24 hours is the problem. I ended up
sanding back down to bare wood before redoing my car, but we are having
trouble with other cars that need another coat of paint. The yellow is
especially troublesome as it does not cover well and needs 24 hours to dry
between coats to get it to cover properly.

On Feb 21, 3:26*pm, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:21:45 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. *If
we let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on
the cars. Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

Alligatoring - AKA reticulation - occurs when a new coat is put on one that
is not yet dry...the surface of the new coat dries rapidly but the coat
under it continues to dry over time and as it does so the newer top coat
shrinks and crinkles. *The first coat may *seem* dry but is not.

I never used to have this problem with spray paints but sometimes do now.
Seems to vary by brand too. *I don't know what changes have been made in the
formulation to cause the problem but - perhaps - the type/amount of solvent.
Perhaps the solvent nowadays softens - thus expanding- the first coat.

The only solution I have found is to spary ALL coats in the first couple of
hours OR wait several days before re-spraying.

One of the cars in question was not painted for a whole week. *When sprayed
within an hour or so it is fine. *Spraying over the primer is fine. *A
second or third color coat after 24 hours is the problem. *I ended up
sanding back down to bare wood before redoing my car, but we are having
trouble with other cars that need another coat of paint. *The yellow is
especially troublesome as it does not cover well and needs 24 hours to dry
between coats to get it to cover properly.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Get a different paint, maybe a bad batch and it does happen.

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:41:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.
Depends on the particular formula, but it is often better to repaint either
before or after after some specified curing time. What does the can say?

One can I just looked at says "Recoat before 24 hours or after 7 days"
Another says recoat any time.

Also., putting on coats too heavy makes it worse.

We are doing light coats and it says to recoat within 1 hour or after 24
hours. There is no problem with doing the recoat within 1 hour. The
problem is when waiting for more that 24 hours. This is on top of 2-3
light coats of primer.

Any chance the primer was not cured? Dried paint in hot sun?

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:21:45 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If
we let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on
the cars. Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.
Alligatoring - AKA reticulation - occurs when a new coat is put on one that
is not yet dry...the surface of the new coat dries rapidly but the coat
under it continues to dry over time and as it does so the newer top coat
shrinks and crinkles. The first coat may *seem* dry but is not.

I never used to have this problem with spray paints but sometimes do now.
Seems to vary by brand too. I don't know what changes have been made in the
formulation to cause the problem but - perhaps - the type/amount of solvent.
Perhaps the solvent nowadays softens - thus expanding- the first coat.

The only solution I have found is to spary ALL coats in the first couple of
hours OR wait several days before re-spraying.

One of the cars in question was not painted for a whole week. When sprayed
within an hour or so it is fine. Spraying over the primer is fine. A
second or third color coat after 24 hours is the problem. I ended up
sanding back down to bare wood before redoing my car, but we are having
trouble with other cars that need another coat of paint. The yellow is
especially troublesome as it does not cover well and needs 24 hours to dry
between coats to get it to cover properly.

If you have more painting to do, you might want to buy cans of enamel
and use Preval sprayers. Need thinner (Penetrol?) for oil-based paint,
a different one for latex. Preval sprayers go on nicely when thinned
properly and have a smaller spray pattern.

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:25:51 -0500, wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:41:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.
Depends on the particular formula, but it is often better to repaint either
before or after after some specified curing time. What does the can say?

One can I just looked at says "Recoat before 24 hours or after 7 days"
Another says recoat any time.

Also., putting on coats too heavy makes it worse.

We are doing light coats and it says to recoat within 1 hour or after 24
hours. There is no problem with doing the recoat within 1 hour. The
problem is when waiting for more that 24 hours. This is on top of 2-3
light coats of primer.

Any chance the primer was not cured? Dried paint in hot sun?

Yes, the paint was dried in the hot sun. That might be the problem. Why
would this cause problems? It seems that it should dry faster and harder
in the sun and give a better finish.

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
Yes, the paint was dried in the hot sun. That might be the problem. Why
would this cause problems? It seems that it should dry faster and harder
in the sun and give a better finish.

Or it could give a nice hard outer shell and keep solvents locked inside.

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:25:51 -0500, wrote:

Yes, the paint was dried in the hot sun. That might be the problem.
Why would this cause problems? It seems that it should dry faster
and harder in the sun and give a better finish.

Paint doesn't really dry--it cures. Chemicals in the paint combine with
oxygen (and maybe other gases) from the atmosphere, changing from one
chemical to another.

If you dry it in a hot location, the surface skims over, blocking
oxygen from the part below. You need a slow, even cure so it all gets
done at about the same time. I'm sure you've seen a mud puddle that
dried in the sun. You get the same alligatoring.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:25:51 -0500, wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:41:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.
Depends on the particular formula, but it is often better to repaint either
before or after after some specified curing time. What does the can say?

One can I just looked at says "Recoat before 24 hours or after 7 days"
Another says recoat any time.

Also., putting on coats too heavy makes it worse.
We are doing light coats and it says to recoat within 1 hour or after 24
hours. There is no problem with doing the recoat within 1 hour. The
problem is when waiting for more that 24 hours. This is on top of 2-3
light coats of primer.
Any chance the primer was not cured? Dried paint in hot sun?

Yes, the paint was dried in the hot sun. That might be the problem. Why
would this cause problems? It seems that it should dry faster and harder
in the sun and give a better finish.

That is almost surely your problem. The surface dries hard (too
fast)and doesn't allow evap. of the solvents underneath.

Use an automotive spray primer (several coats) before color coat


On Feb 21, 11:10*am, Michael Dobony wrote:
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. *If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:02:07 +0000 (UTC), "SteveBell"
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:25:51 -0500, wrote:

Yes, the paint was dried in the hot sun. That might be the problem.
Why would this cause problems? It seems that it should dry faster
and harder in the sun and give a better finish.

Paint doesn't really dry--it cures. Chemicals in the paint combine with
oxygen (and maybe other gases) from the atmosphere, changing from one
chemical to another.

If you dry it in a hot location, the surface skims over, blocking
oxygen from the part below. You need a slow, even cure so it all gets
done at about the same time. I'm sure you've seen a mud puddle that
dried in the sun. You get the same alligatoring.

Steve is right, and this applies to painting house exteriors as well.

Michael, I sure hope you get a good usable answer to this one. I
have sprayed paint with conventional guns, airless, HVLP, and
rattle cans. I've shot lacquer, oil base, and latex. I've
brushed and rolled. I've oil primed, acid primed, latex primed,
epoxy primed. I have created some very high quality painted
finishes.

My last two projects shot with extra expensive rattle can paint
(because it was an important project) alligatored just as you
describe. Many people have not read your posts very well, so I
will repeat that my project was well sanded and well cleaned MDF.
It was primed 3 times with sanding and filling between coats. It
was performed in high gloss black with each coat applied as a full
wet coat. We waited the specified cure time between coats. The
paint was applied indoors, normal shirt sleeve temperatures.
There was no rhyme or reason to the alligatoring, it was quite
random on the piece; but made it quite unusable. I hate working
under deadlines and this thing was eating our lunch because of
paint problems.

My solution will be to not ever use rattle cans for important work
unless it is the 79 cent (ya, my age is showing) cheapo oil based
stuff. If it counts, I can brush lacquer better than the results
I've gotten from Krylon.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:25:51 -0500, wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:41:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon
paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator
finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.
Depends on the particular formula, but it is often better to
repaint either
before or after after some specified curing time. What does
the can say?

One can I just looked at says "Recoat before 24 hours or
after 7 days"
Another says recoat any time.

Also., putting on coats too heavy makes it worse.

We are doing light coats and it says to recoat within 1 hour
or after 24
hours. There is no problem with doing the recoat within 1
hour. The
problem is when waiting for more that 24 hours. This is on
top of 2-3
light coats of primer.

Any chance the primer was not cured? Dried paint in hot sun?

Yes, the paint was dried in the hot sun. That might be the
problem. Why
would this cause problems? It seems that it should dry faster
and harder
in the sun and give a better finish.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:24:53 -0500, wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:25:51 -0500, wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:41:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.
Depends on the particular formula, but it is often better to repaint either
before or after after some specified curing time. What does the can say?

One can I just looked at says "Recoat before 24 hours or after 7 days"
Another says recoat any time.

Also., putting on coats too heavy makes it worse.
We are doing light coats and it says to recoat within 1 hour or after 24
hours. There is no problem with doing the recoat within 1 hour. The
problem is when waiting for more that 24 hours. This is on top of 2-3
light coats of primer.
Any chance the primer was not cured? Dried paint in hot sun?

Yes, the paint was dried in the hot sun. That might be the problem. Why
would this cause problems? It seems that it should dry faster and harder
in the sun and give a better finish.

That is almost surely your problem. The surface dries hard (too
fast)and doesn't allow evap. of the solvents underneath.

This would explain a layer dried in the sun, but doesn't explain why a
second layer would instantly bubble up before being put in the sun.

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:24:53 -0500, wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:25:51 -0500, wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:41:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
.. .
We are trying to paint some pinewood derby cars with Kryon paint. If we
let the paint set for over 24 hours we get an alligator finish on the
cars.
Any idea what is happening here?

Mike D.
Depends on the particular formula, but it is often better to repaint either
before or after after some specified curing time. What does the can say?

One can I just looked at says "Recoat before 24 hours or after 7 days"
Another says recoat any time.

Also., putting on coats too heavy makes it worse.
We are doing light coats and it says to recoat within 1 hour or after 24
hours. There is no problem with doing the recoat within 1 hour. The
problem is when waiting for more that 24 hours. This is on top of 2-3
light coats of primer.
Any chance the primer was not cured? Dried paint in hot sun?
Yes, the paint was dried in the hot sun. That might be the problem. Why
would this cause problems? It seems that it should dry faster and harder
in the sun and give a better finish.
That is almost surely your problem. The surface dries hard (too
fast)and doesn't allow evap. of the solvents underneath.

This would explain a layer dried in the sun, but doesn't explain why a
second layer would instantly bubble up before being put in the sun.

The top layer formed a skin, then the solvents trapped in the earlier
layer expanded but couldn't pass through the dry skin.

SOP is to paint each side of a house before/after the hottest sun
exposure, for the same reason. Temp guidelines on paint labels are
there for good reasons - too cold, it won't cure; too hot, the surface
is complete but traps the lower solvents.

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
This would explain a layer dried in the sun, but doesn't explain why a
second layer would instantly bubble up before being put in the sun.

The solvents in the second layer softened the skin of the first and allowed
the underlying solvents to move freely. The alligator you see is that
softened skin shrinking in place under the second coat.