"Mark" wrote

many people that are so poor they need to pay H&R Block or some other
store-front tax preparer the outlandish fees to get their tax return a
week or two earlier? With E-file they say you'll get it in about a week.

People who use them, don't really do it for the fast return, so much as a
complex tax situation beyond their own understanding. I happen to do my own
now but with software. I then e-file all but one state that wont let a NR
file electronically.

Time is money and I can do it faster and cheaper on my own with their
software than by sitting in their office and answering the same questions.

Besides, it seems pretty clear that if you are getting $2,600 back you
probably should reduce your withholdings and bring home that extra $216
each month rather than sending it to Uncle Sam and letting him use it
interest free for a year.

Technically yes, but there is a nice side benefit to those not all that
great at saving money (and with minimal credit bills) in that the annual
return can pay for a vacation.

Take my case in point when at it's worst to see why folks cant always use
the online free system: Dual military, 1 child, both parents from different
taxable states (both tax military income and military retirement income),
living overseas with one with second job overseas out on the economy and
subject to that countries taxes on that portion as well as USA and state
assements in 2 states. House rented while overseas a portion of the year
and primary residence (no longer rented) another portion of the year.
15,000$ worth of energystar improvements and 10,000$ pure rental damage (was
actually 25,000$ but got a better return claiming the fixes as energystar as
thats what we fixed it with).

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Mark" wrote

many people that are so poor they need to pay H&R Block or some other
store-front tax preparer the outlandish fees to get their tax return a
week or two earlier? With E-file they say you'll get it in about a week.

People who use them, don't really do it for the fast return, so much as a
complex tax situation beyond their own understanding. I happen to do my
own now but with software. I then e-file all but one state that wont let
a NR file electronically.

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case
where a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

While you make a good point, I know of many people that use Block and they
use the EZ form. I do tax returns for a few people at work because they are
just lost when it comes to doing them. I do it for free, but the tax
preparers charge $100 or so.

In one case a worker asked me to use the fast refund option for an
additional $60 rather than wait two weeks. For someone making $10 an hour,
that is a lot of money to spend just to save a week, but he was desperate.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote
"cshenk" wrote

While you make a good point, I know of many people that use Block and they
use the EZ form. I do tax returns for a few people at work because they
are just lost when it comes to doing them. I do it for free, but the tax
preparers charge $100 or so.

In one case a worker asked me to use the fast refund option for an
additional $60 rather than wait two weeks. For someone making $10 an
hour, that is a lot of money to spend just to save a week, but he was
desperate.

He didnt even save a week. A few mins and the EZ form is easy to do online.
It's the more complex ones that cant be done totally online.

Military folks generally on base can get help with tax filing, but seldom
beyond EZ level forms. If you own a house and rent it out as they moved you
(real common for us as you can imagine), you are 'on your own bub' which
really sucks when overseas.

cshenk wrote:
"Mark" wrote

many people that are so poor they need to pay H&R Block or some
other store-front tax preparer the outlandish fees to get their tax
return a week or two earlier? With E-file they say you'll get it in
about a week.

People who use them, don't really do it for the fast return, so much
as a complex tax situation beyond their own understanding. I happen
to do my own now but with software. I then e-file all but one state
that wont let a NR file electronically.

Time is money and I can do it faster and cheaper on my own with their
software than by sitting in their office and answering the same
questions.
Besides, it seems pretty clear that if you are getting $2,600 back
you probably should reduce your withholdings and bring home that
extra $216 each month rather than sending it to Uncle Sam and
letting him use it interest free for a year.

Technically yes, but there is a nice side benefit to those not all
that great at saving money (and with minimal credit bills) in that
the annual return can pay for a vacation.

Take my case in point when at it's worst to see why folks cant always
use the online free system: Dual military, 1 child, both parents
from different taxable states (both tax military income and military
retirement income), living overseas with one with second job overseas
out on the economy and subject to that countries taxes on that
portion as well as USA and state assements in 2 states. House rented
while overseas a portion of the year and primary residence (no longer
rented) another portion of the year. 15,000$ worth of energystar
improvements and 10,000$ pure rental damage (was actually 25,000$ but
got a better return claiming the fixes as energystar as thats what we
fixed it with).
This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case
where a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

Very, very many military personnel change their residence to Florida or
Texas (or five others) to avoid state income taxes. You might consider this
for the duration of your military service.

"HeyBub" wrote

Very, very many military personnel change their residence to Florida or
Texas (or five others) to avoid state income taxes. You might consider
this for the duration of your military service.

That generally is only possible if you live there ;-) I dont and havent
since I was 11.

In article ,
"cshenk" wrote:


This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

HR Block? You might as well just use your tax form for toilet paper, and
send it to the IRS when you're done. That outfit and others like them
hire burger flippers and send them to school for three days to become
"tax professionals." I'm pretty sure the tie they wear is company
property that has to be returned at the end of tax season.

Either do 'em yourself, or go to a genuine CPA.

On Feb 7, 12:00*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,

*"cshenk" wrote:

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

HR Block? You might as well just use your tax form for toilet paper, and
send it to the IRS when you're done. That outfit and others like them
hire burger flippers and send them to school for three days to become
"tax professionals." I'm pretty sure the tie they wear is company
property that has to be returned at the end of tax season.

Either do 'em yourself, or go to a genuine CPA.

I'm not a big HR Block fan either but what you said is just a lie. I
went to tax school for three months before I could get hired. I didn't
do the hardest returns the first year. Most of the traffic at the
office was so simple I could have done it without any schooling.

The second year, I took three more months of tax school to cover some
of the more difficult stuff. I worked the second year and decided I
could make more money doing something else.

David

That's pretty much my point. The most difficult part of doing the taxes is
gathering all the necessary supporting documents to show deductions,
credits, etc. My neighbor spent $100 for HR to do hers and she is single,
no dependents, no significant investments and rents. About 15 minutes work
with a $2 calculator. She did get a fairly large refund and when I asked
her if HR had suggested she reduce her withholdings she said no. I
explained what She COULD have been bringing home extra each month she went
straight to her payroll department and updated her withholding info. She
was flabbergasted at her 1st paycheck the other day and pledged to save 1/2
of the extra she brought home.


"hibb" wrote in message
...
On Feb 7, 12:00 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,

"cshenk" wrote:

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case
where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

HR Block? You might as well just use your tax form for toilet paper, and
send it to the IRS when you're done. That outfit and others like them
hire burger flippers and send them to school for three days to become
"tax professionals." I'm pretty sure the tie they wear is company
property that has to be returned at the end of tax season.

Either do 'em yourself, or go to a genuine CPA.

I'm not a big HR Block fan either but what you said is just a lie. I
went to tax school for three months before I could get hired. I didn't
do the hardest returns the first year. Most of the traffic at the
office was so simple I could have done it without any schooling.

The second year, I took three more months of tax school to cover some
of the more difficult stuff. I worked the second year and decided I
could make more money doing something else.

David

On Feb 7, 2:44*pm, "Mark" wrote:
That's pretty much my point. *The most difficult part of doing the taxes is
gathering all the necessary supporting documents to show deductions,
credits, etc. *My neighbor spent $100 for HR to do hers and she is single,
no dependents, no significant investments and rents. *About 15 minutes work
with a $2 calculator. *She did get a fairly large refund and when I asked
her if HR had suggested she reduce her withholdings she said no. *I
explained what She COULD have been bringing home extra each month she went
straight to her payroll department and updated her withholding info. *She
was flabbergasted at her 1st paycheck the other day and pledged to save 1/2
of the extra she brought home.

Mark,

You did an excellent service for your neighbor. My sister gets nealry
$3k back every year without having any of the stuff like the EIC and I
can't get it through her thick skull that it's not good to do that.

I did one couple's taxes once where the husband had taken an early
withdrawal form his retirement account of $250K. I was shocked to find
that he had no bank savings interest or anything other than his W-2
and the early withdrawal from the retirement account to declare. He
was only about 40 years old. He wound up paying a total of $95
thousand dollars to Fed and State. I have no idea what they did with
all that money in one year.

I was able to help some folks but most of them just wanted to bury
their heads in the sand when it comes to taxes.

David

"hibb" wrote in message

My sister gets nearly
$3k back every year without having any of the stuff like the EIC and I
can't get it through her thick skull that it's not good to do that.

************************************************** ***********
Getting money back is good. After all, it is free money right? Why use
that money every month to pay down your mortgage when you can get a big
refund and **** it away on "toys"?

In article , "Mark"
wrote:

She
was flabbergasted at her 1st paycheck the other day and pledged to save 1/2
of the extra she brought home.

1/2? That's mighty white of her. Do come back in a year and let us know
how her "pledge" worked out.

What do savings accounts pay these days? 1/2 % or less? Hardly worth the
self discipline. Let the gubmint keep it for you, then do something
special with the money when it comes in. Or pay down your mortgage with
it.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 12:49:16 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article , "Mark"
wrote:

She
was flabbergasted at her 1st paycheck the other day and pledged to save 1/2
of the extra she brought home.

1/2? That's mighty white of her. Do come back in a year and let us know
how her "pledge" worked out.

What do savings accounts pay these days? 1/2 % or less? Hardly worth the
self discipline. Let the gubmint keep it for you, then do something
special with the money when it comes in. Or pay down your mortgage with
it.


Savings don't pay much. My GNMA paid 7% last year, backed by the US
government, AAA rated, but not insured. The price is rather high
right now--a better sell than buy, but it is paying a good monthly
dividend. Not affected by the recession, but the price per share
increased with the financial bailouts.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article , "Mark"
wrote:

She
was flabbergasted at her 1st paycheck the other day and pledged to save
1/2
of the extra she brought home.

1/2? That's mighty white of her. Do come back in a year and let us know
how her "pledge" worked out.

What do savings accounts pay these days? 1/2 % or less? Hardly worth the
self discipline. Let the gubmint keep it for you, then do something
special with the money when it comes in. Or pay down your mortgage with
it.

So your view is that most people are too stupid to manage their finances on
their own. Fortunately I know my neighbor is somewhat financially
responsible - very little credit card debt, seems to budget well for her car
maintenance and other expenses. She just didn't realize the tax issue.

As for letting 'the gubmint keep it' and then use the refund as you suggest:
1) This means you have to wait a year to get access, even if you have some
need arise before that.
2) the extra money applied to your mortgage each month would pay it down a
whole lot faster than the once-a-year payment.
3) If you really want to do 'something special' with your money, you'd be
surprised how rewarding it is to actually save and budget for it rather than
'spurge' spending every April.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article , "Mark"
wrote:

She
was flabbergasted at her 1st paycheck the other day and pledged to
save 1/2 of the extra she brought home.

1/2? That's mighty white of her. Do come back in a year and let us
know how her "pledge" worked out.

What do savings accounts pay these days? 1/2 % or less? Hardly worth
the self discipline. Let the gubmint keep it for you, then do
something special with the money when it comes in. Or pay down your
mortgage with it.

Another trick is to pay 1/2 your morgtage payment on each of the 1st and
15th of the month. Believe it or not, through the miracle of screwing the
finance company, this will reduce a 30-year morgtage to only 20 years.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article , "Mark"
wrote:

She
was flabbergasted at her 1st paycheck the other day and pledged to
save 1/2 of the extra she brought home.

1/2? That's mighty white of her. Do come back in a year and let us
know how her "pledge" worked out.

What do savings accounts pay these days? 1/2 % or less? Hardly worth
the self discipline. Let the gubmint keep it for you, then do
something special with the money when it comes in. Or pay down your
mortgage with it.

I'm with you. How much is she going to earn on that money,
even if it's 5% (crazy talk), it's only a few bucks. If she
takes that money in her paycheck, I bet she has nothing to
show for it at the end of the year, it will just be sucked up
by daily living expenses. If she has the discipline to actually
save the whole amount (not half!!), then good for her. Many
(most?) people will not know where that money went.

nancy

"Smitty Two" wrote

What do savings accounts pay these days? 1/2 % or less? Hardly worth the
self discipline. Let the gubmint keep it for you, then do something
special with the money when it comes in. Or pay down your mortgage with
it.

Grin, I hate to tell ya but I got over 5,000$ back last year plus the
'stimulus check'. This wasnt due to too much withholding so much as being
able to claim a huge amount of repairs after renter damage. Got audited and
they found one small mistake but it was a case where I'd have gotten more
money if I'd claimed one of the things i didnt think was claimable. They
sent me the extra 200$ ;-)

Did I break even? No way. But I got 5,000$ of the 25,000$ spent to repair,
back.

In article
,
hibb wrote:

On Feb 7, 12:00*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,

*"cshenk" wrote:

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case
where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

HR Block? You might as well just use your tax form for toilet paper, and
send it to the IRS when you're done. That outfit and others like them
hire burger flippers and send them to school for three days to become
"tax professionals." I'm pretty sure the tie they wear is company
property that has to be returned at the end of tax season.

Either do 'em yourself, or go to a genuine CPA.

I'm not a big HR Block fan either but what you said is just a lie. I
went to tax school for three months before I could get hired. I didn't
do the hardest returns the first year. Most of the traffic at the
office was so simple I could have done it without any schooling.

The second year, I took three more months of tax school to cover some
of the more difficult stuff. I worked the second year and decided I
could make more money doing something else.

David

Every single year, every single TV station sends an undercover
"investigative reporter" out to a half dozen of those storefront scam
joints, and every single time, he comes out with six *wildly* different
returns. So I don't care if they send 'em to "tax school" for three days
or sixty years, they're still a bunch of incompetent morons.

On Feb 7, 4:44*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,



*hibb wrote:
On Feb 7, 12:00*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,

*"cshenk" wrote:

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case
where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

HR Block? You might as well just use your tax form for toilet paper, and
send it to the IRS when you're done. That outfit and others like them
hire burger flippers and send them to school for three days to become
"tax professionals." I'm pretty sure the tie they wear is company
property that has to be returned at the end of tax season.

Either do 'em yourself, or go to a genuine CPA.

I'm not a big HR Block fan either but what you said is just a lie. I
went to tax school for three months before I could get hired. I didn't
do the hardest returns the first year. Most of the traffic at the
office was so simple I could have done it without any schooling.

The second year, I took three more months of tax school to cover some
of the more difficult stuff. I worked the second year and decided I
could make more money doing something else.

David

Every single year, every single TV station sends an undercover
"investigative reporter" out to a half dozen of those storefront scam
joints, and every single time, he comes out with six *wildly* different
returns. So I don't care if they send 'em to "tax school" for three days
or sixty years, they're still a bunch of incompetent morons.

Sheesh, if you are going to make such exaggerations like that why not
say they find Jimmy Hoffa in there too.

The worse part is that you made me go and defend H&R Block. You need
to go to confession and absolve you sin.

David

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article
,
hibb wrote:

On Feb 7, 12:00 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,

"cshenk" wrote:

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case
where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

HR Block? You might as well just use your tax form for toilet paper,
and
send it to the IRS when you're done. That outfit and others like them
hire burger flippers and send them to school for three days to become
"tax professionals." I'm pretty sure the tie they wear is company
property that has to be returned at the end of tax season.

Either do 'em yourself, or go to a genuine CPA.

I'm not a big HR Block fan either but what you said is just a lie. I
went to tax school for three months before I could get hired. I didn't
do the hardest returns the first year. Most of the traffic at the
office was so simple I could have done it without any schooling.

The second year, I took three more months of tax school to cover some
of the more difficult stuff. I worked the second year and decided I
could make more money doing something else.

David

Every single year, every single TV station sends an undercover
"investigative reporter" out to a half dozen of those storefront scam
joints, and every single time, he comes out with six *wildly* different
returns. So I don't care if they send 'em to "tax school" for three days
or sixty years, they're still a bunch of incompetent morons.

They've done the same sort of investigative reporting on the IRS's own help
staff - different responses to the same tax question. I guess you aren't
safe with either!

On Feb 7, 10:45*pm, "Mark" wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message

news


In article
,
hibb wrote:

On Feb 7, 12:00 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,

"cshenk" wrote:

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case
where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

HR Block? You might as well just use your tax form for toilet paper,
and
send it to the IRS when you're done. That outfit and others like them
hire burger flippers and send them to school for three days to become
"tax professionals." I'm pretty sure the tie they wear is company
property that has to be returned at the end of tax season.

Either do 'em yourself, or go to a genuine CPA.

I'm not a big HR Block fan either but what you said is just a lie. I
went to tax school for three months before I could get hired. I didn't
do the hardest returns the first year. Most of the traffic at the
office was so simple I could have done it without any schooling.

The second year, I took three more months of tax school to cover some
of the more difficult stuff. I worked the second year and decided I
could make more money doing something else.

David

Every single year, every single TV station sends an undercover
"investigative reporter" out to a half dozen of those storefront scam
joints, and every single time, he comes out with six *wildly* different
returns. So I don't care if they send 'em to "tax school" for three days
or sixty years, they're still a bunch of incompetent morons.

They've done the same sort of investigative reporting on the IRS's own help
staff - different responses to the same tax question. *I guess you aren't
safe with either!

I've wondered about those IRS agents. They could audit most people and
the auditee would not even be able to tell if the auditor was correct.
Maybe Smitty thinks they only get a three day seminar too.

In article , "Mark"
wrote:



They've done the same sort of investigative reporting on the IRS's own help
staff - different responses to the same tax question. I guess you aren't
safe with either!

That's why I go to a CPA. Going to the IRS for tax advice is like a
mouse going to a cat for advice on predation avoidance.

Smitty Two wrote:

Every single year, every single TV station sends an undercover
"investigative reporter" out to a half dozen of those storefront scam
joints, and every single time, he comes out with six *wildly*
different returns. So I don't care if they send 'em to "tax school"
for three days or sixty years, they're still a bunch of incompetent
morons.

So what? There is no single "correct" answer to a tax return.

If you drive your minister to the hospital to visit the sick, one person
might consider that a favor for a friend while another deducts $1.00/mile as
a contribution to the church.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

Every single year, every single TV station sends an undercover
"investigative reporter" out to a half dozen of those storefront scam
joints, and every single time, he comes out with six *wildly*
different returns. So I don't care if they send 'em to "tax school"
for three days or sixty years, they're still a bunch of incompetent
morons.

So what? There is no single "correct" answer to a tax return.

?????????? There sure as hell ought to be. And I'm not talking
differences of 10 or 20 percent, but varying from getting back a few
thousand to owing a few thousand.


If you drive your minister to the hospital to visit the sick, one person
might consider that a favor for a friend while another deducts $1.00/mile as
a contribution to the church.

Uh, the reporter gives the exact same info to each preparer. (And the
mileage limit is set by the IRS, and it's nowhere close to $1.)

"HeyBub" wrote:



If you drive your minister to the hospital to visit the sick, one person
might consider that a favor for a friend while another deducts $1.00/mile as
a contribution to the church.

Driving for charity is only deductible at $0.14 per mile. Don't forget to have
a mileage log to document it. -- Doug

"hibb" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

This isnt the level where you hire a tax consultant, but it is a case
where
a person may well use HR block type services quite reasonably.

HR Block? You might as well just use your tax form for toilet paper, and
send it to the IRS when you're done. That outfit and others like them

I'm not a big HR Block fan either but what you said is just a lie. I
went to tax school for three months before I could get hired. I didn't
do the hardest returns the first year. Most of the traffic at the

The second year, I took three more months of tax school to cover some
of the more difficult stuff. I worked the second year and decided I
could make more money doing something else.

That's been my general experience with such outfits. I get bounced
immediately to the more experienced guys (I no longer use such outfits, but
I did long ago). It's that dual state and the NR status for military. SC
state taxes get'em every time (grin).

This will be the last year I have to deal with that one, fortunately.