I live in a house that was built in 66, it's on a slab (no crawl space
or basement), and it's all copper or galvanized pipe.

I live in Southern Virginia, and it's been freezing lately. We haven't
had any problem with our pipes yet - but a neighbor did. Their
interior pipes burst, but no one was living in the home at the time
(it's for sale) and the heat was off. so that may have factored into
it.

I'm wondering if I have to worry about my pipes freezing below the
slab/under the house. There is also one copper pipe that sticks out
from the foundation about 5 inches. It leads out to some buried pvc
pipe to carry water to the other side of the yard. I have that shut
off (no water going out to the pvc). but i'm worried that the 5 inches
that is exposed just before the shut off valve is in danger.

i'm sure i'm going to get a ton of opinions on this... my girlfriend
thinks letting the water trickle from a faucet in the house is a
waste. she just assumes turning off the water to the house at the
street.

Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks everyone.

"RedDwarf" wrote in message

I live in Southern Virginia, and it's been freezing lately. We haven't
had any problem with our pipes yet - but a neighbor did. Their
interior pipes burst, but no one was living in the home at the time
(it's for sale) and the heat was off. so that may have factored into
it.

Maybe, but we tend to code spec in Norfolk area to southern climes.

I'm wondering if I have to worry about my pipes freezing below the
slab/under the house. There is also one copper pipe that sticks out

Unlikely here.

i'm sure i'm going to get a ton of opinions on this... my girlfriend
thinks letting the water trickle from a faucet in the house is a
waste. she just assumes turning off the water to the house at the
street.

Huh? Dont follow, turning off the water at the street means you are toilet
free until you turn it back on.

Yes, trickle the water here. Just a small tricke needed.

Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks everyone.

I live in VB. Chec your house as you may have uninsulated copper pipes in
overhead areas with no insulation at all. Those are your danger points.
Apt area, garage here.

On Jan 20, 7:44*pm, RedDwarf wrote:
I live in a house that was built in 66, it's on a slab (no crawl space
or basement), and it's all copper or galvanized pipe.

I live in Southern Virginia, and it's been freezing lately. We haven't
had any problem with our pipes yet - but a neighbor did. Their
interior pipes burst, but no one was living in the home at the time
(it's for sale) and the heat was off. so that may have factored into
it.

I'm wondering if I have to worry about my pipes freezing below the
slab/under the house. There is also one copper pipe that sticks out
from the foundation about 5 inches. It leads out to some buried pvc
pipe to carry water to the other side of the yard. I have that shut
off (no water going out to the pvc). but i'm worried that the 5 inches
that is exposed just before the shut off valve is in danger.

i'm sure i'm going to get a ton of opinions on this... my girlfriend
thinks letting the water trickle from a faucet in the house is a
waste. she just assumes turning off the water to the house at the
street.

Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks everyone.

The pipes froze because the heat was totally off. Your pipes won't
freeze if you keep your house heated to a reasonable temp. No need to
boost the temp or end a daytime setback (if you use one) .....heat
flows from your house out through the slab on grade. Are you pipes in
the slab or under the slab? Does the slab have any insulation? Where
are the pipes relative tothe insulation?

If you're worried about the copper pipe that protrudes from the
foundation.....put some closed cell foam insulating tubing over it.
The heat that is drawn from the house by the copper pipe will keep the
water from freezing in the pipe.

Of course whether things freeze will depend on how cold the weather
gets & how long it stays cold.....if you get

Turning the water off at the street will not prevent freezing in your
house unless you drain the water system. I am eluctant to give this
advice......don't listen to your g/f on plumbing issues.

Yeah, leaving a tap running does waste water and only protects those
pipes through which water is actually flowing. A dead-end circuit
exposed to cold for long enough will freeze.

Wasted water is cheap compared to a burst pipe somewhere in the
house.


cheers
Bob

One of the first steps you should take to protect your pipes is to
disconnect all outdoor hoses. If possible, shut off the supply to the
outside tap then turn on the faucet to let any water already in the
line drain out.

Pipes usually freeze where they are closest to outside walls. The most
susceptible to freezing are those running through unheated areas such
as crawl spaces or inside vanities on outside walls.

Once the water freezes in the pipe, the water flow will be cut off. If
the blockage is not removed promptly, the ice can expand and split the
pipe.

To prevent freezing, try to keep the pipes warm. Open vanities under
sinks and raise the temperature in areas with exposed pipes by turning
up your thermostat or using a space heater.

If pipes leading to a particular faucet often freeze, turn on the cold
tap so water trickles continuously during extremely cold weather.

Insulating wraps for water pipes near outside walls can help, but a
plumber may have to move pipes installed in areas that are too
vulnerable to the cold.

If you leave your house for an extended time during the winter, don't
turn your heating system all the way off. Set the thermostat at about
60 degrees and make sure all the storm windows are sealed tight to
keep the heat in. Open the doors of all vanities so warm air
circulates around the pipes under your sinks.

AsianDoll

Since its my school semester break I have been using my free time
playing games like a href=http://www.gamestotal.com http://www.gamestotal.com
/a a href=http://uc.gamestotal.com http://uc.gamestotal.com /a
a href=http://gc.gamestotal.com http://gc.gamestotal.com /a a
href=http://3700ad.gamestotal.com http://3700ad.gamestotal.com /a
a href=http://manga.gamestotal.com http://manga.gamestotal.com /a

On Jan 20, 11:03*pm, "cshenk" wrote:
"RedDwarf" wrote in message
I live in Southern Virginia, and it's been freezing lately. We haven't
had any problem with our pipes yet - but a neighbor did. Their
interior pipes burst, but no one was living in the home at the time
(it's for sale) and the heat was off. so that may have factored into
it.

Maybe, but we tend to code spec in Norfolk area to southern climes.

I'm wondering if I have to worry about my pipes freezing below the
slab/under the house. There is also one copper pipe that sticks out

Unlikely here.

i'm sure i'm going to get a ton of opinions on this... my girlfriend
thinks letting the water trickle from a faucet in the house is a
waste. she just assumes turning off the water to the house at the
street.

Huh? *Dont follow, turning off the water at the street means you are toilet
free until you turn it back on.

Yes, trickle the water here. *Just a small tricke needed.

Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks everyone.

I live in VB. *Chec your house as you may have uninsulated copper pipes in
overhead areas with no insulation at all. *Those are your danger points..
Apt area, garage here.

Thanks for the information. To clarify, the plan was to turn the h20 @
the street - then open a faucet to let whatever water in there expand
if it froze. We would just do that @ night of course...
I appreciate the help - I have a few ideas to work with now.

keep your heat on , if your sink is on outer wall,keep the cabinet
doors open there.. its no wonder your freinds pipe froze with no heat
on. that would happen in any house when its that cold.lucas

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

RedDwarf wrote:

I'm wondering if I have to worry about my pipes freezing below the
slab/under the house.

No. The earth is a tremendous heat sink.

On a very cold night, stick a thermometer in the ground, say six inches
deep.

I'd be astonished if it read below 50°F. In fact the reason a "trickle" of
water works to prevent freezing is that the technique brings warmer water
from underground (i.e., 50°) into the system.

As to "wasting" water: A minimal stream will "waste" about four gallons of
water per night, about the same as a low-flow shower (less than one cent).
An average bath uses about 30 gallons, an old-style commode flush uses six
gallons.

So, if you can avoid one flush per evening, you're ahead of the game. If you
can persuade your girlfriend to forego her bath by showering instead, you
can "trickle" for a week on the "savings" from one bath.

On Jan 21, 6:38*am, RedDwarf wrote:
On Jan 20, 11:03*pm, "cshenk" wrote:





"RedDwarf" wrote in message
I live in Southern Virginia, and it's been freezing lately. We haven't
had any problem with our pipes yet - but a neighbor did. Their
interior pipes burst, but no one was living in the home at the time
(it's for sale) and the heat was off. so that may have factored into
it.

Maybe, but we tend to code spec in Norfolk area to southern climes.

I'm wondering if I have to worry about my pipes freezing below the
slab/under the house. There is also one copper pipe that sticks out

Unlikely here.

i'm sure i'm going to get a ton of opinions on this... my girlfriend
thinks letting the water trickle from a faucet in the house is a
waste. she just assumes turning off the water to the house at the
street.

Huh? *Dont follow, turning off the water at the street means you are toilet
free until you turn it back on.

Yes, trickle the water here. *Just a small tricke needed.

Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks everyone.

I live in VB. *Chec your house as you may have uninsulated copper pipes in
overhead areas with no insulation at all. *Those are your danger points.
Apt area, garage here.

Thanks for the information. To clarify, the plan was to turn the h20 @
the street - then open a faucet to let whatever water in there expand
if it froze. We would just do that @ night of course...
I appreciate the help - I have a few ideas to work with now.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is this your first house. So one unheated house freezes, but you are
heated. I think you are panicking its only just below freezing you
say. House plumbing is better designed than that. Even an outside
spigot where I am wont freeze in a heated basement until near or below
zero. Talk to your neighbors to see what they do. Last week the high
here was -5 the low -20f. My spigots are shut off inside and left open
and drained outside.

cshenk wrote:

I live in VB. Chec your house as you may have uninsulated copper pipes in
overhead areas with no insulation at all. Those are your danger points.
Apt area, garage here.



That's for sure. I lived in Houston in 1983. That year there was a
Siberian Express cold front that came through and gave Houston a hard
freeze on Christmas day. In Houston there is a lot of plumbing in
attics. A lot of people who left town for Christmas came home and
found their ceilings down from the pipes in the attics that froze
and burst.

I got the word not to try to travel, because of the horrid weather and
spent Christmas at home. I got up Christmas morning and found the
water frozen where it came up out of the ground in front of the
house, then bent to go into the wall. I got it thawed out with
no problem, but I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't
been there.

Bill

On Jan 21, 8:28*am, wrote:
*keep your heat on , if your sink is on outer wall,keep the cabinet
doors open there.. its no wonder your freinds pipe froze with no heat
on. that would happen in any house when its that cold.lucas

----------------------------------------------------------------http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm


I'd be most concerned with the 5" piece of exposed pipe. From the
description, it's not clear exactly what this is, but if temps are
falling below freezing, I'd get it either drained if it's non-
essential or protected in some fashion otherwise. The house freezing
with no heat is a very different situation from a heated house. Take
a look at how water is run in your house. The most vulnerable spots
are those completely exposed, like that 5" piece of pipe, or an
outdoor faucet that isn't freeze proof. Next would be areas where
water pipes flow in outside walls, or in the slab at the very
perimeter of the house, etc. Generally even in those situations, with
any decent construction techniques, it would have to get very cold for
those pipes to freeze. From experience here in NJ, that happens when
it's in the low teens or below for an extended period. If it just
dips there for a few hours overnight, it's usually not a problem.

Personally, I've never had pipes freeze in my house here in NJ,
except once, when the heat went off while I was away. Even then I was
very lucky, because all that happened was it caused the compression
fitting by one toilet to start to leak.. Recently, it was down to 2F
here and no problems.

Forget about shutting the water off at the street. That isn't
required and wouldn't keep the pipes from freezing. All it would do is
prevent a flood. The pipes are still full of water and can freeze
and bust anyway. I had a recent reminder of this. I was
experimenting making granita, which is a frozen ice dessert. I put a
coffee cup with water, flavoring, etc into the freezer. It froze and
cracked. Now, if freezing can crack a cup with lots of open space
above it, clearly relying on open expansion space doesn't mean the ice
will all expand there and you will be ok.

On Jan 21, 4:38*am, RedDwarf wrote:
On Jan 20, 11:03*pm, "cshenk" wrote:



"RedDwarf" wrote in message
I live in Southern Virginia, and it's been freezing lately. We haven't
had any problem with our pipes yet - but a neighbor did. Their
interior pipes burst, but no one was living in the home at the time
(it's for sale) and the heat was off. so that may have factored into
it.

Maybe, but we tend to code spec in Norfolk area to southern climes.

I'm wondering if I have to worry about my pipes freezing below the
slab/under the house. There is also one copper pipe that sticks out

Unlikely here.

i'm sure i'm going to get a ton of opinions on this... my girlfriend
thinks letting the water trickle from a faucet in the house is a
waste. she just assumes turning off the water to the house at the
street.

Huh? *Dont follow, turning off the water at the street means you are toilet
free until you turn it back on.

Yes, trickle the water here. *Just a small tricke needed.

Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks everyone.

I live in VB. *Chec your house as you may have uninsulated copper pipes in
overhead areas with no insulation at all. *Those are your danger points.
Apt area, garage here.

Thanks for the information. To clarify, the plan was to turn the h20 @
the street - then open a faucet to let whatever water in there expand
if it froze. We would just do that @ night of course...
I appreciate the help - I have a few ideas to work with now.

......your conceptual thinking is headed in the right direction but
your fresh water plumbing system does not (will not) freeze like water
in a small container in the freezer.


depending on how & where the pipe are routed..... the plan was
to turn the h20 @
the street - then open a faucet to let whatever water in there
expand if it froze.

this plan may make you feel better but unless you purge nearly all the
water, it will be a waste of time.

as others have said, if oyu keep the house heated, the chance of a
pipe freeze is almost zero w/o an extended cold snap.

cheers
Bob

"RedDwarf" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

I live in Southern Virginia, and it's been freezing lately. We haven't
had any problem with our pipes yet - but a neighbor did. Their

Thanks for the information. To clarify, the plan was to turn the h20 @
the street - then open a faucet to let whatever water in there expand
if it froze. We would just do that @ night of course...
I appreciate the help - I have a few ideas to work with now.

You'll see lots of others. Turning off the water at the street won't help
really. The pipes under your slab will be fine if you are around the
Norfolk roughly area. We are well into the southern zone (on the coast, not
western end by the mountains!)

Can you tell me how close to the coast you are? If you are near us (VB), I
can give you specifics to our area, even where to look for danger spots with
our type code and where to get to right products to deal with it.

If you are along the coast, the advice of the others is *not* bad but may be
overkill. It misses though on some of the common construction we have that
northern houses do not do and are a danger point they won't think of.
Things they will go 'oh no, they didnt build like that did they?'

Area specifics if you are coastal VA along the southern part (Williamsberg
and below):

Your exterior hose outlet will need one of the styrofoam covers. It will
not be constructed 'freezeproof'. Drain any garden hoses and put them in
the garage.
- older houses made 1970 and earlier almost always have just one and at the
front. If you have one at the back as well, it's apt to have been added and
may be a better freeze proof type.

Laundry rooms are most often an adjunct off the garage and commonly piped
overhead in copper from the kitchen or from the inlet to the house which is
often in the garage (possibly this is your 'exposed copper pipe' you
mention, real common here). If that pipe is in the garage from the slab
then leads into the house and with a separate line to the laundry run free
along the wall then up and over, your danger spot is the laundry room. It's
a dead end you cant trickle *unless* someone later added a backyard outlet
off that laundry feed (you can then trickle that here and the ice wont form
up high to block it).
- Garages here are totally uninsulated. There is frequently a sort of
section with a plywood 'roof' over the landry section. You will see the
pipes leading down from there to the laundry. This is the most common spot
for busted pipes locally. The plywood (or whatever) most likely has no
insulation at all and the pipes run down an exterior uninsulated wall. The
whole area is unheated.
-- If you have the above, those pipes may be so close to flush to the
exterior wall, you cant get real insulation behind them. Fix is a 'pipe
heater' which looks alot like an extension cord and you run it along each
pipe then plug it into an outlet. Then, add rolls of insulation up behind
the false 'roof' of the laundry. You may be able to get some of the thin
foam sheet insualtion behind the pipes. Local HD or Lowes has that as well
as the pipe heaters and styrofoam exterior outlet covers.

Your main water inlet from below ground is almost sure to be by the kitchen
with the hot water heater fairly close. Bathrooms tend to be on the other
side of the house (not always but often so they have an exterior window)
with the pipes being either overhead in an insulated attic crawlway, or in
newer construction, run through the slab. If through the slab, relax. If
overhead, wrap insulation over any exposed ones, if any are exposed (mine
run under the slab).

"RedDwarf" wrote in message
...
On Jan 20, 11:03 pm, "cshenk" wrote:
"RedDwarf" wrote in message
I live in Southern Virginia, and it's been freezing lately. We haven't
had any problem with our pipes yet - but a neighbor did. Their
interior pipes burst, but no one was living in the home at the time
(it's for sale) and the heat was off. so that may have factored into
it.

Maybe, but we tend to code spec in Norfolk area to southern climes.

I'm wondering if I have to worry about my pipes freezing below the
slab/under the house. There is also one copper pipe that sticks out

Unlikely here.

i'm sure i'm going to get a ton of opinions on this... my girlfriend
thinks letting the water trickle from a faucet in the house is a
waste. she just assumes turning off the water to the house at the
street.

Huh? Dont follow, turning off the water at the street means you are toilet
free until you turn it back on.

Yes, trickle the water here. Just a small tricke needed.

Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks everyone.

I live in VB. Chec your house as you may have uninsulated copper pipes in
overhead areas with no insulation at all. Those are your danger points.
Apt area, garage here.

Thanks for the information. To clarify, the plan was to turn the h20 @
the street - then open a faucet to let whatever water in there expand
if it froze. We would just do that @ night of course...
I appreciate the help - I have a few ideas to work with now.

You often cannot drain all the water out of the plumbing. Any that remains
can still freeze and burst the pipes, it won't expand into the empty space
if it is very far away. You could blow the water out with compressed air but
that is usually only done for long term winterizing. Actually loss of
pressure will let the water freeze easier. Insulate the outdoor pipe and let
the inner faucets trickle at night if you are concerned. During the day
usage will generally keep the pipes from freezing.

Don Young