My kitchen is a LONG way from my electric water heater, which is under
the floor beneath the downstairs bathroom. I'm thinking about adding a
second water heater under the floor under the kitchen sink. (A tankless
water heater is not being considered, and there is no inside cabinet
space to accommodate another water heater.)

1. Can a short body propane water heater be installed in the crawl
space? If so, does it have to be vented to the outside, or is venting
into the crawl space sufficient?

2. Is there any reason that I cannot put a valve going into the hot
water line at the kitchen sink that will allow me to switch between the
present electric hot water heater and the new propane one?

3. My house is plumbed with 3/4" copper, but the line going to the
kitchen is only 1/2". Shouldn't that line be upgraded to 3/4"?

4. What is the optimum water pressure for the house? My last plumber
reduced it because it was way too high. Now it's too low.

The reasons I want to use propane are that we have a large propane tank
for our gas logs. We don't use the minimum amount each month, so we can
get some of the heating energy for "free". Second, if the power goes
out, we'll still have hot water, and our power does go out way too often.

On Jan 7, 10:43*am, mcp6453 wrote:
My kitchen is a LONG way from my electric water heater, which is under
the floor beneath the downstairs bathroom. I'm thinking about adding a
second water heater under the floor under the kitchen sink. (A tankless
water heater is not being considered, and there is no inside cabinet
space to accommodate another water heater.)

1. Can a short body propane water heater be installed in the crawl
space? If so, does it have to be vented to the outside, or is venting
into the crawl space sufficient?

It's sufficient if you don't want to live long. Your floor is not
airtight and the crawlspace is likely not positively ventillated. The
CO will work its way up into your living space and poison you.

2. Is there any reason that I cannot put a valve going into the hot
water line at the kitchen sink that will allow me to switch between the
present electric hot water heater and the new propane one?

What would be the point? Why keep water hot if you're not going to use
it?

3. My house is plumbed with 3/4" copper, but the line going to the
kitchen is only 1/2". Shouldn't that line be upgraded to 3/4"?

Most houses are only plumbed with 1/2"

4. What is the optimum water pressure for the house? My last plumber
reduced it because it was way too high. Now it's too low.

Get the plumber back and make him increase the pressure.

mcp6453 wrote:

1. Can a short body propane water heater be installed in the crawl
space? If so, does it have to be vented to the outside, or is venting
into the crawl space sufficient?


All codes are local, you need to call your local plumbing inspector. If it's
allowed, you will almost certainly need to vent it properly.

2. Is there any reason that I cannot put a valve going into the hot
water line at the kitchen sink that will allow me to switch between the
present electric hot water heater and the new propane one?


No, but it sounds unnecessarily complex.

3. My house is plumbed with 3/4" copper, but the line going to the
kitchen is only 1/2". Shouldn't that line be upgraded to 3/4"?


Not usually. Increasing the pipe size makes you waste more water and time
waiting for the hot water to arrive.

4. What is the optimum water pressure for the house? My last plumber
reduced it because it was way too high. Now it's too low.

Between 50 and 60 psi is considered normal. Exceed 50 and you increase the wear
and tear on the valves in your house - especially the washer & dishwasher
solenoid valved.

On Jan 7, 7:43*am, mcp6453 wrote:
My kitchen is a LONG way from my electric water heater, which is under
the floor beneath the downstairs bathroom. I'm thinking about adding a
second water heater under the floor under the kitchen sink. (A tankless
water heater is not being considered, and there is no inside cabinet
space to accommodate another water heater.)



How far is a LONG way? Fifty feet? 100 ft?

1. Can a short body propane water heater be installed in the crawl
space?
Yes

If so, does it have to be vented to the outside, or is venting
into the crawl space sufficient?

Needs outside vent, it's a no-no to vent into the crawlspace.

2. Is there any reason that I cannot put a valve going into the hot
water line at the kitchen sink that will allow me to switch between
the
present electric hot water heater and the new propane one?

Why bother? Propane usage mentioned below?

3. My house is plumbed with 3/4" copper, but the line going to the
kitchen is only 1/2". Shouldn't that line be upgraded to 3/4"?

NO! A larger line will increase just increase the wait time. My
kitchen faucet has 30 ft of hot water line feeding it (1/2" nominal
PEX) and the wait is ~10 secs.

4. What is the optimum water pressure for the house? My last plumber
reduced it because it was way too high. Now it's too low.

I installed a pressuring reducing valve to bring the city water
pressure ~75 psi down to less than 65 psi. Plumbing systems are
suggested to have less than 65 psi to minimize water
hammer...personally I prefered the higher pressure.



The reasons I want to use propane are that we have a large propane tank
for our gas logs. We don't use the minimum amount each month, so we
can
get some of the heating energy for "free". Second, if the power goes
out, we'll still have hot water, and our power does go out way too
often.

If you want to optimize your propane usage, you'd need to "start &
stop" your propane heater use. I guess you could feed the one water
heater with the other and turn one off depending on the propane
usage. This might set up a situation for Legionaire's, something to
think about.

cheers
Bob

On Jan 7, 10:43*am, mcp6453 wrote:
My kitchen is a LONG way from my electric water heater, which is under
the floor beneath the downstairs bathroom. I'm thinking about adding a
second water heater under the floor under the kitchen sink. (A tankless
water heater is not being considered, and there is no inside cabinet
space to accommodate another water heater.)

Sounds like an ideal place for a point-of-use or tankless water
heater. I've used them several times now and they work great.

You're best bet is a 10 gallon electric. You can plug it in a standard
outlet, and then feed it with the hot from the far away unit. You'll have
instant hot and it won't use much energy since it will mostly be being fed
with hot water.

steve


"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
My kitchen is a LONG way from my electric water heater, which is under the
floor beneath the downstairs bathroom. I'm thinking about adding a second
water heater under the floor under the kitchen sink. (A tankless water
heater is not being considered, and there is no inside cabinet space to
accommodate another water heater.)

1. Can a short body propane water heater be installed in the crawl space?
If so, does it have to be vented to the outside, or is venting into the
crawl space sufficient?

2. Is there any reason that I cannot put a valve going into the hot water
line at the kitchen sink that will allow me to switch between the present
electric hot water heater and the new propane one?

3. My house is plumbed with 3/4" copper, but the line going to the kitchen
is only 1/2". Shouldn't that line be upgraded to 3/4"?

4. What is the optimum water pressure for the house? My last plumber
reduced it because it was way too high. Now it's too low.

The reasons I want to use propane are that we have a large propane tank
for our gas logs. We don't use the minimum amount each month, so we can
get some of the heating energy for "free". Second, if the power goes out,
we'll still have hot water, and our power does go out way too often.

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
My kitchen is a LONG way from my electric water heater, which is under the
floor beneath the downstairs bathroom. I'm thinking about adding a second
water heater under the floor under the kitchen sink. (A tankless water heater
is not being considered, and there is no inside cabinet space to accommodate
another water heater.)

When I re-plumbed, I added an additional pipe back to the water heater from the
end of the line, and a recirculating pump. At each hot water outlet is a
pushbutton. Push it, and it turns on the pump for long enough to get hot water
to the tap. So you walk in the room, push the button, and do whatever for 1/2
minute or so. Then, when you turn on the hot tap, you get hot within a couple
seconds.

If your plumbing is in a crawl space, this could be as easy as adding another
heater.

"mcp6453" wrote in message

1. Can a short body propane water heater be installed in the crawl space?
If so, does it have to be vented to the outside, or is venting into the
crawl space sufficient?

I've seen crawspaces that are about 18'. No, it could not be used. I don't
know your setup, but it must be vented properly.



2. Is there any reason that I cannot put a valve going into the hot water
line at the kitchen sink that will allow me to switch between the present
electric hot water heater and the new propane one?

No, no tif that is what you want to do.


3. My house is plumbed with 3/4" copper, but the line going to the kitchen
is only 1/2". Shouldn't that line be upgraded to 3/4"?

No, the actual feed to the valve is even smaller. The more water sitting
int he pipe, the longer the wait fo rh ot water.



4. What is the optimum water pressure for the house? My last plumber
reduced it because it was way too high. Now it's too low.

Usually in the 50 to 60# range. The pressure regulator should have an
adjustment on it.



The reasons I want to use propane are that we have a large propane tank
for our gas logs. We don't use the minimum amount each month, so we can
get some of the heating energy for "free". Second, if the power goes out,
we'll still have hot water, and our power does go out way too often.

It may pay to use a large propane in place of the electric. If it is
getting old, consider a replacement and in the long run save money.

If my only concern is hot water at the sink, I'd look at a little electric
under the sink. I don't know if it is sufficient to supply a dishwasher,
but plenty for simple washing.

Steve Barker wrote:
You're best bet is a 10 gallon electric. You can plug it in a standard
outlet, and then feed it with the hot from the far away unit. You'll have
instant hot and it won't use much energy since it will mostly be being fed
with hot water.

Are there any code issues with feeding a second hot water heater from a
first one, as you recommend? I had heard about this configuration
before, but I thought maybe I heard wrong. The tank would have to be
under the house. There is not enough room under the sink.

The recirculator is a good idea, too. I had not heard of there being a
switch at the faucet.

Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this question. An unvented propane
hot water heater is now out of the question. The crawl space is about
three feet, but I don't think that's enough to correctly install a vent.
(Doesn't the vent have to point "uphill" so that the exhaust can escape?)

On Jan 7, 1:44*pm, mcp6453 wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
You're best bet is a 10 gallon electric. *You can plug it in a standard
outlet, and then feed it with the hot from the far away unit. *You'll have
instant hot and it won't use much energy since it will mostly be being fed
with hot water.

Are there any code issues with feeding a second hot water heater from a
first one, as you recommend? I had heard about this configuration
before, but I thought maybe I heard wrong. The tank would have to be
under the house. There is not enough room under the sink.

The recirculator is a good idea, too. I had not heard of there being a
switch at the faucet.

Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this question. An unvented propane
hot water heater is now out of the question. The crawl space is about
three feet, but I don't think that's enough to correctly install a vent.
(Doesn't the vent have to point "uphill" so that the exhaust can escape?)

Is it a heated crawl does it get below 70f, you have risks if it fails
and its below 32, if its colder than the house you will waste propane,
In the house is best.

On Jan 7, 3:52�pm, ransley wrote:
On Jan 7, 1:44�pm, mcp6453 wrote:





Steve Barker wrote:
You're best bet is a 10 gallon electric. �You can plug it in a standard
outlet, and then feed it with the hot from the far away unit. �You'll have
instant hot and it won't use much energy since it will mostly be being fed
with hot water.

Are there any code issues with feeding a second hot water heater from a
first one, as you recommend? I had heard about this configuration
before, but I thought maybe I heard wrong. The tank would have to be
under the house. There is not enough room under the sink.

The recirculator is a good idea, too. I had not heard of there being a
switch at the faucet.

Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this question. An unvented propane
hot water heater is now out of the question. The crawl space is about
three feet, but I don't think that's enough to correctly install a vent..
(Doesn't the vent have to point "uphill" so that the exhaust can escape?)

Is it a heated crawl does it get below 70f, you have risks if it fails
and its below 32, if its colder than the house you will waste propane,
In the house is best.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

plus many propane water heaters for thru the wall type venting will
need power line voltage to operate. that prevets OP idea of having hot
water during power outages.

best to add the propane heater in series before electric heater in
basement and re circluating pump so with push of button theres hot
water. insulate both lines well to minimize loses

as for the code question, i don't know. I don't worry about that. As for
the circulator, you can also do that without a return line, you can send it
back through the cold line. See:

http://www.chilipepperapp.com/

steve


"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker wrote:
You're best bet is a 10 gallon electric. You can plug it in a standard
outlet, and then feed it with the hot from the far away unit. You'll
have instant hot and it won't use much energy since it will mostly be
being fed with hot water.

Are there any code issues with feeding a second hot water heater from a
first one, as you recommend? I had heard about this configuration before,
but I thought maybe I heard wrong. The tank would have to be under the
house. There is not enough room under the sink.

The recirculator is a good idea, too. I had not heard of there being a
switch at the faucet.

Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this question. An unvented propane
hot water heater is now out of the question. The crawl space is about
three feet, but I don't think that's enough to correctly install a vent.
(Doesn't the vent have to point "uphill" so that the exhaust can escape?)