Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

On Dec 18, 6:12*pm, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

You could use a compression fitting valve?

BTW we inadvertently ended up with two ball valves in series.
The incoming cold water pipe from street is three quarter copper it
has a 3/4" ball valve.
The in house piping is half inch and has a 1/2" ball valve.
In between the two there is a union.
The unexpceted and unplanned advantage of ending up with that is; by
shutting off the street water, then the house water it is possible to
open up the union with very little water in the short few inches of
pipe between the two valves.
Then rig some sort of drainage and by gently opening up the upper
house valve it is possible to drain down the house piping in a
controlled manner (opening up something further along of course to
allow air into the emptying system).
Just a thought anyway.

On Dec 18, 3:12*pm, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

If this is so you can turn off the water when you want why not get a
buffalo box key and turn off the service yourself, I think Menards and
HD have them cheap.

turn it off for free and charge to turn it back on??? Sounds like bs to me.
I'd turn it off myself.

as for getting the water out, once you cut the old valve off, then the water
may run out on its own. If it's a horizontal line, and it won't quit
dripping, then stuff a measure of bread down the line, and do your
soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on.
(or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay)


s


"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:09:30 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

turn it off for free and charge to turn it back on??? Sounds like bs to me.
I'd turn it off myself.

as for getting the water out, once you cut the old valve off, then the water
may run out on its own. If it's a horizontal line, and it won't quit
dripping, then stuff a measure of bread down the line, and do your
soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on.
(or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay)

Doesn't the man have a 5-sided socket wrench?

Yes, and a four or five foot long snakes tongue tool to turn the valve stem.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
news
soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on.
(or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay)

Doesn't the man have a 5-sided socket wrench?

If you can find the curb shut off. And if you can find a place to buy the
specialized tool, that is. It's not just a crescent wrench, after all.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
turn it off for free and charge to turn it back on??? Sounds like bs to me.
I'd turn it off myself.

as for getting the water out, once you cut the old valve off, then the water
may run out on its own. If it's a horizontal line, and it won't quit
dripping, then stuff a measure of bread down the line, and do your
soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on.
(or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay)


s

get a spray bottle takeout the trigger and hose place the hose in cut piece
of of pipe and pump,pump,pump
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

On Dec 18, 4:48�pm, Bubba wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude

wrote:
Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a
smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it.
You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly
and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your
prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new
valve on and solder quickly.
Bubba

use MAPP GAS WITH MAPP GAS TORCH! regular propane isnt too good on
larger lines

On Dec 18, 4:55*pm, " wrote:
On Dec 18, 4:48 pm, Bubba wrote:





On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude

wrote:
Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a
smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it.
You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly
and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your
prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new
valve on and solder quickly.
Bubba

use MAPP GAS WITH MAPP GAS TORCH! regular propane isnt too good on
larger lines- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

These are 3/4" pipes. Still?

propane or butane is fine. they used it for decades before MAPP was
invented.


s


"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...


These are 3/4" pipes. Still?

On Dec 18, 8:11�pm, "Steve Barker"
wrote:
propane or butane is fine. � they used it for decades before MAPP was
invented.


yeah untill the low lead solder came out, its melting temperature is
higher, MAPP makes the new solder work much easier

in those cases perhaps.... i don't use the lead free ****.

s


wrote in message
...
On Dec 18, 8:11?pm, "Steve Barker"
wrote:
propane or butane is fine. ? they used it for decades before MAPP was
invented.


yeah untill the low lead solder came out, its melting temperature is
higher, MAPP makes the new solder work much easier

Mapp gas is wonderful stuff. I use it for nearly everything to do with pipe
soldering. Or brazing, actually. The one thing it doesn't do, is work when
the tank is bitter cold.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
use MAPP GAS WITH MAPP GAS TORCH! regular propane isnt too good on
larger lines-

These are 3/4" pipes. Still?

On Dec 18, 4:48*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude

wrote:
Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a
smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it.
You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly
and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your
prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new
valve on and solder quickly.
Bubba

Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the
old valve...

Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 18, 4:48 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude

wrote:
Hi,
I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.
One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a
smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it.
You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly
and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your
prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new
valve on and solder quickly.
Bubba

Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the
old valve...


Yes, sweat it off. But if there is water in there (often the
curb stop doesn't shut off completely) you may be in for a tough time.

Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all,
but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter
into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K
and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool.

Jim

you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice.

s


"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...

Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all,
but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter
into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K
and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool.

Jim

true... I'm thinking a compression fitting might be OK but if you sweat
the old valve off, the pipe should be "pre-tinned" so it'll draw solder
easily. you'll need to sand it down though to fit the new valve on.

nate

Steve Barker wrote:
you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice.

s


"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all,
but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter
into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K
and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool.

Jim




--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Steve Barker wrote:
you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice.

s


I said:
"...soft Type L or K..."

http://www.copper.org/applications/p..._8flrdjts.html
QUOTE: "Water service applications generally use a flare to iron pipe
connection when connecting the copper tube to the main and/or the meter."

------
j



"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all,
but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter
into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K
and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool.

Jim

Something similar to this was discussed a few weeks back. I would use a
ball valve with female threads and 2 male adapters. Sweat a male adapter
onto the supply side of the pipe, screw the valve onto it, turn the
water back on and check for leaks. then sweat the other MA to a short
section of pipe and screw it into the valve, and then hook up the
section of pipe to the rest of the pipe with a coupling. This way you
don't have to worry about getting the valve too hot and ruining it, and
you are going copper-copper, whih is usually easier that copper-brass.
Larry

Steve Barker wrote:
you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice.

s


"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all,
but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter
into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K
and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool.

Jim


But it is standard and accepted practice to use soft tubing for water
service lines. Type "K" soft tubing is specifically required in my area.

FWIW, I have flared rigid copper. It was years ago, but I remember it
was ACR tubing, 5/8 that plumbers call 1/2". Don't recall it being that
different from soft copper. Larry

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:28:38 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude
wrote:

On Dec 18, 4:48*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude

wrote:
Hi,

I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in.
My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for
$50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.

One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned
off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that
leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?

Get most of it out by turning on the lowest faucet and the highest
faucet. Is that what you mean?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a
smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it.
You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly

I used bread with the water heater, where one pipe wouldn't stop
dripping (even though I opened the faucet one the second floor. At
least I think I did.) The bread worked quite well. I may have
learned about it here. Maybe from you. Thanks, you or guys.

and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your
prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new
valve on and solder quickly.
Bubba

Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the
old valve...

I don't know but I thought no one did that. I think it's probably
harder that sweating it on.... To get it on, first you put it on and
then you get it hot. You'll probably get it hot everywhere at once,
but if you don't, you can still have a well sealed joint. To get it
off, you have to get it hot, keep it hot everywhere, and pull it off
while it's hot. You have to grab on to it to pull it off at the same
time your other hand is keeping it hot with a torch, and yet not burn
your first hand with the flame.

Then there will still be a layer of solder on the pipe, and maybe some
little mountaings, which you can wipe off I think with a rag while it
is hot enough, while somehow not burning your hand. If you don't get
it off, you will have a hard to impossible time getting the new valve
on.

I haven't soldered much pipe, but I have soldered a lot of
electronics, and I used to try soldering things off. I have all kinds
of desoldering tools and none work well**. I learned it was more
trouble than it was worth most of the time. I think the same is true
with water pipe.

Aren't you glad you asked?

**I have solder wick, a solder bulb, a soldering iron with a built in
suction bulb, and a spring-loaded solder sucker. None of these things
works very well and afaik none are available in water pipe size
anyhow. What I usually do is heat and melt with a regular soldering
iron, and then blow the solder off with a soda straw. That works for
wire connections, but one can't blow the solder out of the tiny space
between a pipe and a valve.

In this case, cut it off, on both sides. Leave as much as possible
sticking out of the wall, and if you have neough room to maneuver the
torch that you can solder the new valve onto the stub, you can do
that, but you may need to add a couple inches of pipe to one stub or
the other, to replace what got lost inside the valve when you cut the
valve off.

Plus you need a coupler, whatever they are called. You should know
that there are two kinds. One has a dimple inside, half way from one
end to the other. These are very useful in new work, or in all but
the last joint in most replacement work, because it makes it easy to
slide the coupler on just half way. But it's a big problem where the
pipes can't move apart. For that get the couplers with no dimple.

I didn't know they made ttehm with no dimple, plus I wanted to finish,
so I wpent a lot of time trying to grind off that dimple, and it's
amazing, considering how soft copper is, how little progress I made.
I guess most of the time I never quite touched it.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:06:04 -0500, mm
wrote:


I don't know but I thought no one did that. I think it's probably
harder that sweating it on.... To get it on, first you put it on and
then you get it hot. You'll probably get it hot everywhere at once,
but if you don't, you can still have a well sealed joint. To get it
off, you have to get it hot, keep it hot everywhere, and pull it off
while it's hot. You have to grab on to it to pull it off at the same
time your other hand is keeping it hot with a torch, and yet not burn
your first hand with the flame.

OK, I'll grant that you can use pliers for this.

If you try to unsweat an old valve on wet pipe, you will get a cloud of
steam before the solder flows. Not necessarily a bad thing,

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...


Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the
old valve...