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Replacing valves where the water comes in
Hi,
I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Dec 18, 6:12*pm, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron You could use a compression fitting valve? BTW we inadvertently ended up with two ball valves in series. The incoming cold water pipe from street is three quarter copper it has a 3/4" ball valve. The in house piping is half inch and has a 1/2" ball valve. In between the two there is a union. The unexpceted and unplanned advantage of ending up with that is; by shutting off the street water, then the house water it is possible to open up the union with very little water in the short few inches of pipe between the two valves. Then rig some sort of drainage and by gently opening up the upper house valve it is possible to drain down the house piping in a controlled manner (opening up something further along of course to allow air into the emptying system). Just a thought anyway. |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
get a spray bottle takeout the trigger and hose place the hose in cut piece
of of pipe and pump,pump,pump "Aaron Fude" wrote in message ... Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Dec 18, 3:12*pm, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron If this is so you can turn off the water when you want why not get a buffalo box key and turn off the service yourself, I think Menards and HD have them cheap. |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Dec 18, 4:48�pm, Bubba wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude wrote: Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it. You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new valve on and solder quickly. Bubba use MAPP GAS WITH MAPP GAS TORCH! regular propane isnt too good on larger lines |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Dec 18, 4:48*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude wrote: Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it. You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new valve on and solder quickly. Bubba Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the old valve... |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Dec 18, 4:55*pm, " wrote:
On Dec 18, 4:48 pm, Bubba wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude wrote: Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it. You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new valve on and solder quickly. Bubba use MAPP GAS WITH MAPP GAS TORCH! regular propane isnt too good on larger lines- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - These are 3/4" pipes. Still? |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 18, 4:48 pm, Bubba wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude wrote: Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it. You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new valve on and solder quickly. Bubba Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the old valve... Yes, sweat it off. But if there is water in there (often the curb stop doesn't shut off completely) you may be in for a tough time. Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all, but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool. Jim |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:28:38 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude
wrote: On Dec 18, 4:48*pm, Bubba wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:12:42 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude wrote: Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Get most of it out by turning on the lowest faucet and the highest faucet. Is that what you mean? Many thanks in advance, Aaron When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it. You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly I used bread with the water heater, where one pipe wouldn't stop dripping (even though I opened the faucet one the second floor. At least I think I did.) The bread worked quite well. I may have learned about it here. Maybe from you. Thanks, you or guys. and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new valve on and solder quickly. Bubba Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the old valve... I don't know but I thought no one did that. I think it's probably harder that sweating it on.... To get it on, first you put it on and then you get it hot. You'll probably get it hot everywhere at once, but if you don't, you can still have a well sealed joint. To get it off, you have to get it hot, keep it hot everywhere, and pull it off while it's hot. You have to grab on to it to pull it off at the same time your other hand is keeping it hot with a torch, and yet not burn your first hand with the flame. Then there will still be a layer of solder on the pipe, and maybe some little mountaings, which you can wipe off I think with a rag while it is hot enough, while somehow not burning your hand. If you don't get it off, you will have a hard to impossible time getting the new valve on. I haven't soldered much pipe, but I have soldered a lot of electronics, and I used to try soldering things off. I have all kinds of desoldering tools and none work well**. I learned it was more trouble than it was worth most of the time. I think the same is true with water pipe. Aren't you glad you asked? **I have solder wick, a solder bulb, a soldering iron with a built in suction bulb, and a spring-loaded solder sucker. None of these things works very well and afaik none are available in water pipe size anyhow. What I usually do is heat and melt with a regular soldering iron, and then blow the solder off with a soda straw. That works for wire connections, but one can't blow the solder out of the tiny space between a pipe and a valve. In this case, cut it off, on both sides. Leave as much as possible sticking out of the wall, and if you have neough room to maneuver the torch that you can solder the new valve onto the stub, you can do that, but you may need to add a couple inches of pipe to one stub or the other, to replace what got lost inside the valve when you cut the valve off. Plus you need a coupler, whatever they are called. You should know that there are two kinds. One has a dimple inside, half way from one end to the other. These are very useful in new work, or in all but the last joint in most replacement work, because it makes it easy to slide the coupler on just half way. But it's a big problem where the pipes can't move apart. For that get the couplers with no dimple. I didn't know they made ttehm with no dimple, plus I wanted to finish, so I wpent a lot of time trying to grind off that dimple, and it's amazing, considering how soft copper is, how little progress I made. I guess most of the time I never quite touched it. |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
turn it off for free and charge to turn it back on??? Sounds like bs to me.
I'd turn it off myself. as for getting the water out, once you cut the old valve off, then the water may run out on its own. If it's a horizontal line, and it won't quit dripping, then stuff a measure of bread down the line, and do your soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on. (or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay) s "Aaron Fude" wrote in message ... Hi, I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job. One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering? Many thanks in advance, Aaron |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
propane or butane is fine. they used it for decades before MAPP was
invented. s "Aaron Fude" wrote in message ... These are 3/4" pipes. Still? |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice.
s "Speedy Jim" wrote in message ... Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all, but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool. Jim |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
true... I'm thinking a compression fitting might be OK but if you sweat
the old valve off, the pipe should be "pre-tinned" so it'll draw solder easily. you'll need to sand it down though to fit the new valve on. nate Steve Barker wrote: you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice. s "Speedy Jim" wrote in message ... Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all, but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool. Jim -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Steve Barker wrote:
you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice. s I said: "...soft Type L or K..." http://www.copper.org/applications/p..._8flrdjts.html QUOTE: "Water service applications generally use a flare to iron pipe connection when connecting the copper tube to the main and/or the meter." ------ j "Speedy Jim" wrote in message ... Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all, but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool. Jim |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Something similar to this was discussed a few weeks back. I would use a
ball valve with female threads and 2 male adapters. Sweat a male adapter onto the supply side of the pipe, screw the valve onto it, turn the water back on and check for leaks. then sweat the other MA to a short section of pipe and screw it into the valve, and then hook up the section of pipe to the rest of the pipe with a coupling. This way you don't have to worry about getting the valve too hot and ruining it, and you are going copper-copper, whih is usually easier that copper-brass. Larry |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Dec 18, 8:11�pm, "Steve Barker"
wrote: propane or butane is fine. � they used it for decades before MAPP was invented. yeah untill the low lead solder came out, its melting temperature is higher, MAPP makes the new solder work much easier |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
in those cases perhaps.... i don't use the lead free ****.
s wrote in message ... On Dec 18, 8:11?pm, "Steve Barker" wrote: propane or butane is fine. ? they used it for decades before MAPP was invented. yeah untill the low lead solder came out, its melting temperature is higher, MAPP makes the new solder work much easier |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:06:04 -0500, mm
wrote: I don't know but I thought no one did that. I think it's probably harder that sweating it on.... To get it on, first you put it on and then you get it hot. You'll probably get it hot everywhere at once, but if you don't, you can still have a well sealed joint. To get it off, you have to get it hot, keep it hot everywhere, and pull it off while it's hot. You have to grab on to it to pull it off at the same time your other hand is keeping it hot with a torch, and yet not burn your first hand with the flame. OK, I'll grant that you can use pliers for this. |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:09:30 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote: turn it off for free and charge to turn it back on??? Sounds like bs to me. I'd turn it off myself. as for getting the water out, once you cut the old valve off, then the water may run out on its own. If it's a horizontal line, and it won't quit dripping, then stuff a measure of bread down the line, and do your soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on. (or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay) Doesn't the man have a 5-sided socket wrench? |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Oh you like cosuming lead with your water?
"Steve Barker" wrote in message ... in those cases perhaps.... i don't use the lead free ****. s wrote in message ... On Dec 18, 8:11?pm, "Steve Barker" wrote: propane or butane is fine. ? they used it for decades before MAPP was invented. yeah untill the low lead solder came out, its melting temperature is higher, MAPP makes the new solder work much easier |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
If you try to unsweat an old valve on wet pipe, you will get a cloud of
steam before the solder flows. Not necessarily a bad thing, -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Aaron Fude" wrote in message ... Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the old valve... |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Mapp gas is wonderful stuff. I use it for nearly everything to do with pipe
soldering. Or brazing, actually. The one thing it doesn't do, is work when the tank is bitter cold. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Aaron Fude" wrote in message ... use MAPP GAS WITH MAPP GAS TORCH! regular propane isnt too good on larger lines- These are 3/4" pipes. Still? |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
If you can find the curb shut off. And if you can find a place to buy the
specialized tool, that is. It's not just a crescent wrench, after all. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Steve Barker" wrote in message ... turn it off for free and charge to turn it back on??? Sounds like bs to me. I'd turn it off myself. as for getting the water out, once you cut the old valve off, then the water may run out on its own. If it's a horizontal line, and it won't quit dripping, then stuff a measure of bread down the line, and do your soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on. (or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay) s |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
The lead free solder is a health thing. Daily exposure to lead in your
drinking water is not a good thing to do to yourself or your family. People who consume lead tend to be a bit stupid, neglect punctuation, capitalization, and use swear words at the end of sentences. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Steve Barker" wrote in message ... in those cases perhaps.... i don't use the lead free ****. s |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Yes, and a four or five foot long snakes tongue tool to turn the valve stem.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "mm" wrote in message ... soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on. (or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay) Doesn't the man have a 5-sided socket wrench? |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
With the advances of modern technology, we have the option of keeping our
families safe from known poisons. Or, not. I hope he discloses at time of sale, that he's been using lead solder on the drinking water lines. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Don & Lucille" wrote in message ... Oh you like cosuming lead with your water? "Steve Barker" wrote in message ... in those cases perhaps.... i don't use the lead free ****. s |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Steve Barker wrote:
you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice. s "Speedy Jim" wrote in message ... Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all, but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool. Jim But it is standard and accepted practice to use soft tubing for water service lines. Type "K" soft tubing is specifically required in my area. |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
we all grew up in lead soldered copper plumbed houses. There's no more
danger in that than in all the other **** the government took off the market. steve "Don & Lucille" wrote in message ... Oh you like cosuming lead with your water? |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
it was like that when i got here.....
s "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... With the advances of modern technology, we have the option of keeping our families safe from known poisons. Or, not. I hope he discloses at time of sale, that he's been using lead solder on the drinking water lines. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
FWIW, I have flared rigid copper. It was years ago, but I remember it
was ACR tubing, 5/8 that plumbers call 1/2". Don't recall it being that different from soft copper. Larry |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
On Dec 19, 9:32*am, (Lp1331 1p1331) wrote:
FWIW, I have flared rigid copper. It was years ago, but I remember it was ACR tubing, 5/8 that plumbers call 1/2". Don't recall it being that different from soft copper. * *Larry Hi, what does it mean to "flare" a pipe? Does it mean to put MIP threads on the end? Thanks. |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:32 am, (Lp1331 1p1331) wrote: FWIW, I have flared rigid copper. It was years ago, but I remember it was ACR tubing, 5/8 that plumbers call 1/2". Don't recall it being that different from soft copper. Larry Hi, what does it mean to "flare" a pipe? Does it mean to put MIP threads on the end? Thanks. Here's a How-To video: http://www.askthebuilder.com/Copper_...ol_Video.shtml |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Lp1331 1p1331 wrote:
FWIW, I have flared rigid copper. It was years ago, but I remember it was ACR tubing, 5/8 that plumbers call 1/2". Don't recall it being that different from soft copper. Larry Hard tubing will simply crack if you try to flare it. In a pinch if absolutely necessary you can anneal it to flare it. Maybe the tubing you flared wasn't uniformly hard? |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
I can't view the video on flaring, but will add a couple of things that
may not be mentioned: First, before anything else, make sure you can screw the flare nut all the way down on the fitting. It should go on easily with just fingers. If it does not, now is the time to find out why. Then, before you actually flare the tubing, double and even triple check that the flare nut is not only on the tubing, but is pointed in the right direction. BTDT on all three. Larry |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Symptoms of lead poisoning include lack of capitalization, and use of crude
language? -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Steve Barker" wrote in message ... we all grew up in lead soldered copper plumbed houses. There's no more danger in that than in all the other **** the government took off the market. steve "Don & Lucille" wrote in message ... Oh you like cosuming lead with your water? |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
I flared 1/2 straight water copper, many years ago, to make a carry handle.
Don't know if it was k, l, or m copper. Was not on a roll like ACR copper. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Lp1331 1p1331" wrote in message ... FWIW, I have flared rigid copper. It was years ago, but I remember it was ACR tubing, 5/8 that plumbers call 1/2". Don't recall it being that different from soft copper. Larry |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Means to bend the end of the pipe out, so the pipe (from the side) looks a
bit like the capital letter Y. If you've done auto work, brake lines are often flared. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Aaron Fude" wrote in message ... On Dec 19, 9:32 am, (Lp1331 1p1331) wrote: FWIW, I have flared rigid copper. It was years ago, but I remember it was ACR tubing, 5/8 that plumbers call 1/2". Don't recall it being that different from soft copper. Larry Hi, what does it mean to "flare" a pipe? Does it mean to put MIP threads on the end? Thanks. |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Can anyone show me a link to what the key that shuts off the water at
the curb looks like? Thanks! |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
To see one, go to http://lowes.com or http://homedepot.com and do a search
for "curb key". Or try this link: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...s&Ntt=curb+key Aaron Fude wrote: Can anyone show me a link to what the key that shuts off the water at the curb looks like? Thanks! |
Replacing valves where the water comes in
Actually , brake lines are 'always' "double" flared.
s "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... Means to bend the end of the pipe out, so the pipe (from the side) looks a bit like the capital letter Y. If you've done auto work, brake lines are often flared. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.ag.org |
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