....with joy and relief, as I looked out on the crowds in Grant Park
celebrating the election of our new president. So many people -- young
and old, black and white, had tears running down their faces

Obama's speech was just like him -- direct, simple, eloquent,
and quintessentially American. He called us to work for the common
good -- not to go shopping.

The "relief" I felt comes partly from lifting the terrible fear that
hung over me for so long: That the next president would appoint
Supreme Court justices who would send our beloved country
even further down the road to a quasi-totalitarian state ruled --
as it has been for the last eight years -- by unchecked corporate
greed unmatched in my (long) voting memory.

Now, Justice Stevens, at 88, may feel it safe to retire,
and Justice Souter may leave the Court where he has
not lately been too happy. The cabal of Scalia, Thomas,
Alito and Roberts will be on the OTHER side of the 5-4
decisions that have so cynically sold us out on every
aspect of our lives.

People don't often stop and think how directly their lives
are affected by the Supreme Court's decisions.

Now we have hope that our new President, governing
from the center, will nominate centrist Justices who
don't cynically interpret the Constitution for the
benefit of religious fanatics, corporate thieves
and anti-environmental hatchetmen.

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

"The Audacity of Hope" -- he was already looking far, far ahead.

wrote in message
...

...with joy and relief, as I looked out on the crowds in Grant Park
celebrating the election of our new president. So many people -- young
and old, black and white, had tears running down their faces

Obama's speech was just like him -- direct, simple, eloquent,
and quintessentially American. He called us to work for the common
good -- not to go shopping.

The "relief" I felt comes partly from lifting the terrible fear that
hung over me for so long: That the next president would appoint
Supreme Court justices who would send our beloved country
even further down the road to a quasi-totalitarian state ruled --
as it has been for the last eight years -- by unchecked corporate
greed unmatched in my (long) voting memory.

Now, Justice Stevens, at 88, may feel it safe to retire,
and Justice Souter may leave the Court where he has
not lately been too happy. The cabal of Scalia, Thomas,
Alito and Roberts will be on the OTHER side of the 5-4
decisions that have so cynically sold us out on every
aspect of our lives.

People don't often stop and think how directly their lives
are affected by the Supreme Court's decisions.

Now we have hope that our new President, governing
from the center, will nominate centrist Justices who
don't cynically interpret the Constitution for the
benefit of religious fanatics, corporate thieves
and anti-environmental hatchetmen.

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

"The Audacity of Hope" -- he was already looking far, far ahead.

America has just made a huge step forward in her history.

Bob F wrote:
wrote in message
...
...with joy and relief, as I looked out on the crowds in Grant Park
celebrating the election of our new president. So many people -- young
and old, black and white, had tears running down their faces

Obama's speech was just like him -- direct, simple, eloquent,
and quintessentially American. He called us to work for the common
good -- not to go shopping.

The "relief" I felt comes partly from lifting the terrible fear that
hung over me for so long: That the next president would appoint
Supreme Court justices who would send our beloved country
even further down the road to a quasi-totalitarian state ruled --
as it has been for the last eight years -- by unchecked corporate
greed unmatched in my (long) voting memory.

Now, Justice Stevens, at 88, may feel it safe to retire,
and Justice Souter may leave the Court where he has
not lately been too happy. The cabal of Scalia, Thomas,
Alito and Roberts will be on the OTHER side of the 5-4
decisions that have so cynically sold us out on every
aspect of our lives.

People don't often stop and think how directly their lives
are affected by the Supreme Court's decisions.

Now we have hope that our new President, governing
from the center, will nominate centrist Justices who
don't cynically interpret the Constitution for the
benefit of religious fanatics, corporate thieves
and anti-environmental hatchetmen.

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

"The Audacity of Hope" -- he was already looking far, far ahead.

America has just made a huge step forward in her history.


Agreed.

Lou

On Nov 5, 12:51*am, "Bob F" wrote:
wrote in message

...





...with joy and relief, as I looked out on the crowds in Grant Park
celebrating the election of our new president. So many people -- young
and old, black and white, had tears running down their faces

Obama's speech was just like him -- *direct, simple, eloquent,
and quintessentially *American. *He called us to work for the common
good -- not to go shopping.

The "relief" I felt comes partly from lifting the terrible fear that
hung over me for so long: *That the next president would appoint
Supreme Court justices who would send our beloved country
even further down the road to a quasi-totalitarian state ruled --
as it has been for the last eight years -- by unchecked corporate
greed unmatched in my (long) voting memory.

Now, *Justice Stevens, at 88, may feel it safe to retire,
and Justice Souter may leave the Court where he has
not lately been too happy. *The cabal of Scalia, Thomas,
Alito and Roberts will be on the OTHER side of the 5-4
decisions that have so cynically sold us out on every
aspect of our lives.

People don't often stop and think how directly their lives
are affected by the Supreme Court's decisions.

Now we have hope that our new President, governing
from the center, will nominate centrist Justices who
don't cynically interpret the Constitution for the
benefit of religious fanatics, corporate thieves
and anti-environmental hatchetmen.

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

"The Audacity of Hope" -- he was already looking far, far ahead.

America has just made a huge step forward in her history.

I'll 'second' this.

We now have REAL hope for the future.

Lewis.

*****

On Nov 5, 12:51*am, "Bob F" wrote:
wrote in message

...





...with joy and relief, as I looked out on the crowds in Grant Park
celebrating the election of our new president. So many people -- young
and old, black and white, had tears running down their faces

Obama's speech was just like him -- *direct, simple, eloquent,
and quintessentially *American. *He called us to work for the common
good -- not to go shopping.

The "relief" I felt comes partly from lifting the terrible fear that
hung over me for so long: *That the next president would appoint
Supreme Court justices who would send our beloved country
even further down the road to a quasi-totalitarian state ruled --
as it has been for the last eight years -- by unchecked corporate
greed unmatched in my (long) voting memory.

Now, *Justice Stevens, at 88, may feel it safe to retire,
and Justice Souter may leave the Court where he has
not lately been too happy. *The cabal of Scalia, Thomas,
Alito and Roberts will be on the OTHER side of the 5-4
decisions that have so cynically sold us out on every
aspect of our lives.

People don't often stop and think how directly their lives
are affected by the Supreme Court's decisions.

Now we have hope that our new President, governing
from the center, will nominate centrist Justices who
don't cynically interpret the Constitution for the
benefit of religious fanatics, corporate thieves
and anti-environmental hatchetmen.

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

"The Audacity of Hope" -- he was already looking far, far ahead.

America has just made a huge step forward in her history.

I will gladly 2nd this statement.

Lewis.

*****

wrote in message
...
On Nov 5, 12:51 am, "Bob F" wrote:
wrote in message

...





...with joy and relief, as I looked out on the crowds in Grant Park
celebrating the election of our new president. So many people -- young
and old, black and white, had tears running down their faces

Obama's speech was just like him -- direct, simple, eloquent,
and quintessentially American. He called us to work for the common
good -- not to go shopping.

The "relief" I felt comes partly from lifting the terrible fear that
hung over me for so long: That the next president would appoint
Supreme Court justices who would send our beloved country
even further down the road to a quasi-totalitarian state ruled --
as it has been for the last eight years -- by unchecked corporate
greed unmatched in my (long) voting memory.

Now, Justice Stevens, at 88, may feel it safe to retire,
and Justice Souter may leave the Court where he has
not lately been too happy. The cabal of Scalia, Thomas,
Alito and Roberts will be on the OTHER side of the 5-4
decisions that have so cynically sold us out on every
aspect of our lives.

People don't often stop and think how directly their lives
are affected by the Supreme Court's decisions.

Now we have hope that our new President, governing
from the center, will nominate centrist Justices who
don't cynically interpret the Constitution for the
benefit of religious fanatics, corporate thieves
and anti-environmental hatchetmen.

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

"The Audacity of Hope" -- he was already looking far, far ahead.

America has just made a huge step forward in her history.

I will gladly 2nd this statement.

Lewis.

*****

DITTO....Renewed my faith in Americans.

Olddog

Towards socialism.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Bob F" wrote in message ...


America has just made a huge step forward in her history.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Towards socialism.

If history repeats itself, Obama will be tested. Recent examples:

JFK - 5 months into his administration, the Berlin Wall was erected. JFK
does nothing.
Carter - 14 months later, USSR invades Afghanistan. Carter cancels U.S.
participation in the Olympics.
Reagan - 2 minutes after inauguration, Iran releases hostages.
Clinton - 13 months into his administration, the WTC was bombed, Clinton
launches Tomahawks.
Bush I - 20 months, Iraq invades Kuwait, Bush I unleashes hell.
Bush II - 9 months, WTC terrorist attack, ditto.

HeyBub:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Towards socialism.

If history repeats itself, Obama will be tested. Recent examples:

JFK - 5 months into his administration, the Berlin Wall was erected.
JFK does nothing.
7 months actually and there was nothing to do. The wall was built inside
East Germany at the direction of the Soviet Union, where before existed a
barbed wire fence. This might be the kind of thing an idiot like GW might
go to war over but no reasonable person would.

Reagan - 2 minutes after inauguration, Iran releases hostages.
How was this a test?

Bush II - 9 months, WTC terrorist attack, Bush makes up a series of lies
to justify his desire to invade Iraq despite long held opinions that there
was no clear exit strategy and that the country would devolve into chaos;
opinions that turned out correct.

Fixed for you. Bush Jr. failed his test catastrophically, weakened our
alliances, has allowed our infrastructure to deteriorate, threatened our
Bill of Rights, failed to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, all but lost
the war in Afghanistan, failed to secure Iraq allowing the theft of
millions of dollars worth of antiquities, weapons and US cash; allowed Al-
Qaeda to gain a foothold in Iraq. It really is amazing that anyone could
delude themselves to the point of voting for another four years of that
crap.

Mac Cool wrote:
HeyBub:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Towards socialism.

If history repeats itself, Obama will be tested. Recent examples:

JFK - 5 months into his administration, the Berlin Wall was erected.
JFK does nothing.
7 months actually and there was nothing to do. The wall was built
inside East Germany at the direction of the Soviet Union, where
before existed a barbed wire fence. This might be the kind of thing
an idiot like GW might go to war over but no reasonable person would.

Reagan - 2 minutes after inauguration, Iran releases hostages.
How was this a test?

Bush II - 9 months, WTC terrorist attack, Bush makes up a series of
lies
to justify his desire to invade Iraq despite long held opinions that
there was no clear exit strategy and that the country would devolve
into chaos; opinions that turned out correct.

Fixed for you. Bush Jr. failed his test catastrophically, weakened our
alliances, has allowed our infrastructure to deteriorate, threatened
our Bill of Rights, failed to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, all
but lost the war in Afghanistan, failed to secure Iraq allowing the
theft of millions of dollars worth of antiquities, weapons and US
cash; allowed Al- Qaeda to gain a foothold in Iraq. It really is
amazing that anyone could delude themselves to the point of voting
for another four years of that crap.

Observations on your opinion of the Bush activities:

Weakened our alliances - Maybe. 'Strong alliances' is a sop to the past.
Countries always do what is in their own best interests. Witness France,
Germany, Russia, and others subverting the oil-for-food U.N. program.

Deteriorating infrastructure - The federal government has almost no role in
infastructure (interstate highways, some airports excepted). Falling bridges
are the responsibility of individual states.

Lost war in Afghanistan - Remember, the war in Afghanistan is a NATO war,
not a U.S. one. As such, it kind of puts paid to your ideal of 'strong
alliances.'

Bill of Rights - In times of peril, rights are often curtailed. That's just
the way it is. From the Whiskey Rebellion, to Lincoln suspending habeas
Corpus, to FDR interning Japanese, restrictions happen. When normalcy
returns, so do rights. Every state - and the federal government - has a
statute that allows the chief executive to suspend virtually any law or
regulation on the books to deal with the emergency. For example, here's the
model Public Health Emergency Act:

http://www.publichealthlaw.net/MSEHPA/MSEHPA.pdf

which allows persons, property, or just about anything else to be seized,
contained, or destroyed without warrants, hearings, lawyers, or any other
"right" solely on the decision of (usually) a single individual. Similar
statutes are already on the books and are exercised every year by governors
dealing with the aftermath of tornados, floods, hurricanes, or Grateful Dead
concerts.

Further, the only reasonable claim of recent BOR violations stems from
intercepting communications without a warrant. The first wire-tapping that
ever took place occurred during the Second War of Independence when both the
Union and the Confederacy tapped the opposition's telegraph lines. To not do
so is to subscribe to Henry Stimpson's 1929 dictum: "Gentelmen don't read
other gentelmen's mail" as he shut down the State Department's cryptanalytic
office.

And so on. Point is, there are often several ways of looking at the same set
of events. Sadly, those not schooled in history or law often reach
simplistic conclusions. As one Supreme Court justice said: "The Bill of
Rights is not a suicide pact."

Minor correction: In spite of agitation to the contrary, it was never the
goal of the United States to kill or capture bin Laden. If either happened,
it would be a plus, but the goal of the U.S. since just about day one was to
prevent another attack on the United States or U.S. civilian interests
abroad. Focusing on a single individual or group is law-enforcement-think,
not war strategy.

This goal - preventing an attack - involved intervention in terrorist
communications, training, financing, support, movement, recruiting, and the
harboring of terrorists by friendly regimes. These efforts have, so far,
proved successful.

In the decade of the '90's, there was about one attack per year on U.S.
interests: WTC1, the USS Cole, embassy bombing, kidnapping of diplomats, and
so on. In the past seven years, coincident with the above plans, there have
been no attacks, successful or otherwise, against the U.S. or U.S. civilian
interests abroad.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Towards socialism.


my only solace is that the "intellectuals" always get it first under those
regimes.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

He won't be able to do it. No one will. America is too widely divided. Look
at the popular vote split. America is already two different countries.

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:07:37 -0800, "Zoot" wrote:

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

He won't be able to do it. No one will. America is too widely divided. Look
at the popular vote split. America is already two different countries.


The popular vote split indicates that we all average out near the
center. That's not divided - it's unified. All we lacked was a leader
who undferstands that.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:07:37 -0800, "Zoot" wrote:
The popular vote split indicates that we all average out near the
center. That's not divided - it's unified. All we lacked was a leader
who undferstands that.



The political parties need to understand it as well. This pandering to the
extremes of the left and right are what's divided the country. I would love to
have a centrist party.

The Republicans left me behind when they started kissing fundamentalist ass.
And the Democrats conspire to deprive me of my God given right to defend myself
by their attempts to redefine the 2nd Amendment.

I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. Most of
them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not all. The parties
need to move closer to us instead of expecting us to come to them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Geez. You and I could enjoy a drink and good conversation together.

cm


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:07:37 -0800, "Zoot" wrote:
The popular vote split indicates that we all average out near the
center. That's not divided - it's unified. All we lacked was a leader
who undferstands that.



The political parties need to understand it as well. This pandering to
the extremes of the left and right are what's divided the country. I
would love to have a centrist party.

The Republicans left me behind when they started kissing fundamentalist
ass. And the Democrats conspire to deprive me of my God given right to
defend myself by their attempts to redefine the 2nd Amendment.

I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. Most
of them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not all. The
parties need to move closer to us instead of expecting us to come to them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"cm" wrote in message
...
Geez. You and I could enjoy a drink and good conversation together.


Rum or beer in the summer. Single malt scotch any time (at least lunch). I
like Oban or Macallan but I'm not too picky.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Just a centrist party? How about a five party system? the current left and
right would occupy the extremes, then just fill the inbetween. You could
get your party, then a liberal/conservative and a conservative/liberal. It
would be interesting, anyway.

I won't hold my breath for it however.

jc

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:07:37 -0800, "Zoot" wrote:
The popular vote split indicates that we all average out near the
center. That's not divided - it's unified. All we lacked was a leader
who undferstands that.



The political parties need to understand it as well. This pandering to
the extremes of the left and right are what's divided the country. I
would love to have a centrist party.

The Republicans left me behind when they started kissing fundamentalist
ass. And the Democrats conspire to deprive me of my God given right to
defend myself by their attempts to redefine the 2nd Amendment.

I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. Most
of them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not all. The
parties need to move closer to us instead of expecting us to come to them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:17:19 GMT, "joe" wrote:

Just a centrist party? How about a five party system? the current left and
right would occupy the extremes, then just fill the inbetween. You could
get your party, then a liberal/conservative and a conservative/liberal. It
would be interesting, anyway.

I won't hold my breath for it however.

Actually, I have often wondered whether a huge country like the U.S.
could manage with a parliamentary system or at the least, with
proportional representation. The Electoral College winner-takes-all
is so, so...UN-representative...


[...


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:17:19 GMT, "joe" wrote:

Just a centrist party? How about a five party system? the current left
and
right would occupy the extremes, then just fill the inbetween. You could
get your party, then a liberal/conservative and a conservative/liberal.
It
would be interesting, anyway.

I won't hold my breath for it however.

jc


You guys both need to take a deep breath and read what I wrote a
second time. Despite the hysterics, Obama is, in fact, within a stones
throw of the center, as is John McCain. That's precisely why the vote
was as close as it was. I think you are going to see John McCain doing
his best to work with Obama for the common goal of moving us forward
and fixing some of the damge wrought in the past 8 years. You will
also see all those who really want to "put America first" doing the
same.

get out of "campaign mode". The campaign is now OVER and the fat lady
has sung. Watch John McCain and follow his example.



Ditto...and well said.

Olddog

In article ,
wrote:

You guys both need to take a deep breath and read what I wrote a
second time. Despite the hysterics, Obama is, in fact, within a stones
throw of the center, as is John McCain. That's precisely why the vote
was as close as it was. I think you are going to see John McCain doing
his best to work with Obama for the common goal of moving us forward
and fixing some of the damge wrought in the past 8 years. You will
also see all those who really want to "put America first" doing the
same.


This is an illustration of why it is pretty much a waste of time and
energy to get into the arguments about who is more centrist. It is a
relative term and very person specific. From my personal standpoint, I
see Obama as much further right of center than McCain is left. I would
bet that you would argue that point rather strongly (since you already
have). YOU ain't gonna change my mind and I have seen nothing in our
rather colorful debate history that indicates any chinks in your outlook
on politics. So, why don't we just realize that, pundits not
withstanding, conservative and liberal are not remotely set in stone and
depend greatly on the individual's perspective. Something that is likely
not all that open to discussion.

get out of "campaign mode". The campaign is now OVER and the fat lady
has sung. Watch John McCain and follow his example.
You can follow the example and still harbor concerns about Obama
(or heck McCain for that matter).

wrote:

You guys both need to take a deep breath and read what I wrote a
second time. Despite the hysterics, Obama is, in fact, within a stones
throw of the center,

Tell that to the baby that gets thrown into the closet to die after a
botched abortion.

On Nov 5, 10:22*am, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:17:19 GMT, "joe" wrote:
Just a centrist party? *How about a five party system? *the current left and
right would occupy the extremes, then just fill the inbetween. *You could
get your party, then a liberal/conservative and a conservative/liberal. *It
would be interesting, anyway.

I won't hold my breath for it however.

jc

You guys both need to take a deep breath and read what I wrote a
second time. Despite the hysterics, Obama is, in fact, within a stones
throw of the center, as is John McCain. That's precisely why the vote
was as close as it was. I think you are going to see John McCain doing
his best to work with Obama for the common goal of moving us forward
and fixing some of the damge wrought in the past 8 years. You will
also see all those who really want to "put America first" doing the
same.

get out of "campaign mode". *The campaign is now OVER and the fat lady
has sung. Watch John McCain and follow his example.



"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:07:37 -0800, "Zoot" wrote:
The popular vote split indicates that we all average out near the
center. That's not divided - it's unified. All we lacked was a leader
who undferstands that.

The political parties need to understand it as well. *This pandering to
the extremes of the left and right are what's divided the country. *I
would love to have a centrist party.

The Republicans left me behind when they started kissing fundamentalist
ass. And the Democrats conspire to deprive me of my God given right to
defend myself by their attempts to redefine the 2nd Amendment.

I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. *Most
of them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not all. *The
parties need to move closer to us instead of expecting us to come to them.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Obama is no where near the center except when he is trying to get
elected. If you had really looked into Obama's past and what he
stands for you would know that. Instead you listened only to the
election lies and fell for them hook line and sinker.

On Nov 5, 10:22*am, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:17:19 GMT, "joe" wrote:
Just a centrist party? *How about a five party system? *the current left and
right would occupy the extremes, then just fill the inbetween. *You could
get your party, then a liberal/conservative and a conservative/liberal. *It
would be interesting, anyway.

I won't hold my breath for it however.

jc

You guys both need to take a deep breath and read what I wrote a
second time. Despite the hysterics, Obama is, in fact, within a stones
throw of the center, as is John McCain. That's precisely why the vote
was as close as it was. I think you are going to see John McCain doing
his best to work with Obama for the common goal of moving us forward
and fixing some of the damge wrought in the past 8 years. You will
also see all those who really want to "put America first" doing the
same.

get out of "campaign mode". *The campaign is now OVER and the fat lady
has sung. Watch John McCain and follow his example.



"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:07:37 -0800, "Zoot" wrote:
The popular vote split indicates that we all average out near the
center. That's not divided - it's unified. All we lacked was a leader
who undferstands that.

The political parties need to understand it as well. *This pandering to
the extremes of the left and right are what's divided the country. *I
would love to have a centrist party.

The Republicans left me behind when they started kissing fundamentalist
ass. And the Democrats conspire to deprive me of my God given right to
defend myself by their attempts to redefine the 2nd Amendment.

I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. *Most
of them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not all. *The
parties need to move closer to us instead of expecting us to come to them.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What...you don't want to follow the example that the Democrats have
set for the last eight years? OK, I will give him a chance but I will
also be keeping score on the number of promises that he breaks.

wrote:
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:17:19 GMT, "joe" wrote:

Just a centrist party? How about a five party system? the current
left and right would occupy the extremes, then just fill the
inbetween. You could get your party, then a liberal/conservative
and a conservative/liberal. It would be interesting, anyway.

I won't hold my breath for it however.

jc


You guys both need to take a deep breath and read what I wrote a
second time. Despite the hysterics, Obama is, in fact, within a stones
throw of the center, as is John McCain. That's precisely why the vote
was as close as it was. I think you are going to see John McCain doing
his best to work with Obama for the common goal of moving us forward
and fixing some of the damge wrought in the past 8 years.

I didn't get the memo. What damage over the last eight years? If you're
talking about the financial mess, everything was fine until the Democrats
took over Congress.

-----Original Message-----
From: ]
Posted At: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:23 AM
Posted To: alt.home.repair
Conversation: I cried...
Subject: I cried...

On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:17:19 GMT, "joe" wrote:

Just a centrist party? How about a five party system? the current
left and
right would occupy the extremes, then just fill the inbetween. You
could
get your party, then a liberal/conservative and a conservative/liberal.
It
would be interesting, anyway.

I won't hold my breath for it however.

jc


You guys both need to take a deep breath and read what I wrote a
second time. Despite the hysterics, Obama is, in fact, within a stones
throw of the center, as is John McCain. That's precisely why the vote
was as close as it was. I think you are going to see John McCain doing
his best to work with Obama for the common goal of moving us forward
and fixing some of the damge wrought in the past 8 years. You will
also see all those who really want to "put America first" doing the
same.

get out of "campaign mode". The campaign is now OVER and the fat lady
has sung. Watch John McCain and follow his example.

=======================================

"Put America First"....just what exactly does that mean?

How? and by who's standard of interpretation?
As in...the rest of the world can take a back seat?

Could we.....
Start buying products and goods made in the USA?
No matter if they are lower quality and more expensive?
[Perhaps American workers can start to pay more attention, be more
thorough, become more competent and raise their personal standards of
quality?]

Could we......
Forget about all the bleeding heart foreign aid and take care of our own
people better?

Could we......
Get rid of illegals who have been sucking off our bleeding heart social
system for far too long? Invite them to petition for immigration like
dignified ladies and gentlemen to show some respect to America?

It will be very interesting to see if this country could actually have
standards, values and traditions that work for everyone....instead of
hundreds of personal agenda's for you name it 'issue'.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:17:19 GMT, "joe" wrote:

Just a centrist party? How about a five party system? the current left and
right would occupy the extremes, then just fill the inbetween. You could
get your party, then a liberal/conservative and a conservative/liberal. It
would be interesting, anyway.

I won't hold my breath for it however.

jc


You guys both need to take a deep breath and read what I wrote a
second time. Despite the hysterics, Obama is, in fact, within a stones
throw of the center, as is John McCain. That's precisely why the vote
was as close as it was. I think you are going to see John McCain doing
his best to work with Obama for the common goal of moving us forward
and fixing some of the damge wrought in the past 8 years. You will
also see all those who really want to "put America first" doing the
same.

get out of "campaign mode". The campaign is now OVER and the fat lady
has sung. Watch John McCain and follow his example.

It is nice to see someone who actually knows what he is talking about still
surviving among the kool-aid drinkers here.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:07:37 -0800, "Zoot" wrote:
The popular vote split indicates that we all average out near the
center. That's not divided - it's unified. All we lacked was a leader
who undferstands that.



The political parties need to understand it as well. This pandering to the
extremes of the left and right are what's divided the country. I would love to
have a centrist party.


You won't hear an argument from me. It seems we pick full bore left or
right. Clearly the republicans main purpose was to enrich the fat cats
by fostering a totally opaque "free market economy". But electing Obama
is just a total move to the other direction. I have pride in our country
and I don't want a president that the "world would have elected" as is
touted with Obama because the world wants the US to be weaker and
diminished in stature. Thats what Obama stands for.


The Republicans left me behind when they started kissing fundamentalist ass.

They left me behind with the opaque "free market" which got us into a
situation that was so leveraged and convoluted that no one could understand.

And the Democrats conspire to deprive me of my God given right to defend myself
by their attempts to redefine the 2nd Amendment.

I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. Most of
them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not all. The parties
need to move closer to us instead of expecting us to come to them.


Exactly, I don't want to drink only either red or blue kool-aid.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. Most
of them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not
all. The parties need to move closer to us instead of expecting us
to come to them.

The political parties accurately reflect the views of their membership. If
you want them to change, get active in the party of your choice and become
an advocate.

It's the "independent" voter who's the most dependent of all. He has no say
in who the candidates will be, he has no voice in the platform, policies, or
practices of either party. After the election, he has no influence or power
over the elected officials.

To a politician, an independent voter is like a dust storm. He shows up once
every four years, creates a mess and much confusion, and has to be dealt
with. After that, he's ignored until next time.

HeyBub wrote:

The political parties accurately reflect the views of their
membership. If you want them to change, get active in the party of
your choice and become an advocate.

It's the "independent" voter who's the most dependent of all. He has
no say in who the candidates will be, he has no voice in the
platform, policies, or practices of either party. After the election,
he has no influence or power over the elected officials.

To a politician, an independent voter is like a dust storm. He shows
up once every four years, creates a mess and much confusion, and has
to be dealt with. After that, he's ignored until next time.


I blame the nomination of John McCain on one of two things:

a) open primaries

b) backroom dealings to set him up as the fall guy for this election.

The "compassionate conservatism" of George W. Bush did the most to
derail the Republican Party than anything else. Good riddance to all
the RINOs. Time to rebuild with those who share the same core beliefs.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. Most
of them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not
all. The parties need to move closer to us instead of expecting us
to come to them.

The political parties accurately reflect the views of their membership. If
you want them to change, get active in the party of your choice and become
an advocate.
They accurately reflect the views of the MOST active part of their
membership. Of course, that still means you have to get involved.

On Nov 5, 2:07*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. Most
of them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not
all. *The parties need to move closer to us instead of expecting us
to come to them.

The political parties accurately reflect the views of their membership. If
you want them to change, get active in the party of your choice and become
an advocate.

It's the "independent" voter who's the most dependent of all. He has no say
in who the candidates will be, he has no voice in the platform, policies, or
practices of either party. After the election, he has no influence or power
over the elected officials.

To a politician, an independent voter is like a dust storm. He shows up once
every four years, creates a mess and much confusion, and has to be dealt
with. After that, he's ignored until next time.

That is something that the majority of people in this country totally
ignore. You are not participating in the process by just voting in
the presidential election every four years. Just the opposite, you
are in effect supporting the worst that the two parties have to
offer. If you really want a government that represents you...you must
get involved at every level from the local precinct to the oval
office.

HeyBub wrote:
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

I know very few people who would buy all of their party's positions. Most
of them are like me, who agree with aspects of both.... but not
all. The parties need to move closer to us instead of expecting us
to come to them.

The political parties accurately reflect the views of their membership. If
you want them to change, get active in the party of your choice and become
an advocate.

The political parties reflect the extremes of their respective
ideologies not the mean.



It's the "independent" voter who's the most dependent of all. He has no say
in who the candidates will be, he has no voice in the platform, policies, or
practices of either party. After the election, he has no influence or power
over the elected officials.

To a politician, an independent voter is like a dust storm. He shows up once
every four years, creates a mess and much confusion, and has to be dealt
with. After that, he's ignored until next time.

Democrats have been dividing the nation as long as I can rememeber. "The
rich didn't pay their fair share" and so on. Asking Obama to bring the
nation together is like asking Jack the Ripper to do first aid.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Zoot" wrote in message
...
Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

He won't be able to do it. No one will. America is too widely divided. Look
at the popular vote split. America is already two different countries.

"Zoot" wrote in message
...
Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

He won't be able to do it. No one will. America is too widely divided. Look at
the popular vote split. America is already two different countries.


I think you underestimate this man.

On Nov 5, 11:22*am, "Bob F" wrote:
"Zoot" wrote in message

...

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

He won't be able to do it. No one will. America is too widely divided. Look at
the popular vote split. America is already two different countries.

I think you underestimate this man.

Not half as much as you over esttimate him.

I am sure the radical terrorist Muslims are dancing in the streets and
praising allah because McRage was not elected. Get ready for the terrorists
to test BHO in a way he has never been tested before. I hope he has some big
balls. Bigger than Carter's or Clinton's combined.


There are going to be a lot of disappointed democratic voters when BO cant
fulfill his campaign promises.

lukeluck


wrote in message
...

...with joy and relief, as I looked out on the crowds in Grant Park
celebrating the election of our new president. So many people -- young
and old, black and white, had tears running down their faces

Obama's speech was just like him -- direct, simple, eloquent,
and quintessentially American. He called us to work for the common
good -- not to go shopping.

The "relief" I felt comes partly from lifting the terrible fear that
hung over me for so long: That the next president would appoint
Supreme Court justices who would send our beloved country
even further down the road to a quasi-totalitarian state ruled --
as it has been for the last eight years -- by unchecked corporate
greed unmatched in my (long) voting memory.

Now, Justice Stevens, at 88, may feel it safe to retire,
and Justice Souter may leave the Court where he has
not lately been too happy. The cabal of Scalia, Thomas,
Alito and Roberts will be on the OTHER side of the 5-4
decisions that have so cynically sold us out on every
aspect of our lives.

People don't often stop and think how directly their lives
are affected by the Supreme Court's decisions.

Now we have hope that our new President, governing
from the center, will nominate centrist Justices who
don't cynically interpret the Constitution for the
benefit of religious fanatics, corporate thieves
and anti-environmental hatchetmen.

Obama - You're going to need all the luck in the world,
bringing together a divided nation

"The Audacity of Hope" -- he was already looking far, far ahead.

"lukeluck" wrote in message
...
I am sure the radical terrorist Muslims are dancing in the streets and
praising allah because McRage was not elected. Get ready for the
terrorists to test BHO in a way he has never been tested before. I hope he
has some big balls. Bigger than Carter's or Clinton's combined.


There are going to be a lot of disappointed democratic voters when BO cant
fulfill his campaign promises.

lukeluck


And there's going to be a lot of disappointed republican voters when
BO does fulfill his campaign promise.

ya, of turning us communist.


s


"sanity" wrote in message
. ..


And there's going to be a lot of disappointed republican voters when
BO does fulfill his campaign promise.

"Steve Barker DLT" wrote in message
...
ya, of turning us communist.


s


Communists? You are still worried about communists? When are you going to leave
the 50's?

Bob F wrote:
"Steve Barker DLT" wrote in message
...
ya, of turning us communist.


s


Communists? You are still worried about communists? When are you going to leave
the 50's?




Sounds like you haven't been keeping up on current events. Putin
recently went into Georgia to test the waters. Beginning in 2009 we will
have a weak, pacifist president. As part of his pacifist ideals it is
guaranteed he will ask for huge cuts of the military budget. Thats
really a cute idea but very naive because guys like Putin respect
strength and don't respect weakness. Remember all of the media telling
us that the world wants Obama (because a weak president weakens the
status of the US relative to them). My strong guess is that Putin will
attempt to begin reacquiring the FSU members after Obama takes office.
Putin is a clever guy and former KGB so he knows how to get the job done.