Hi folks,
I have an old cast iron boiler that used to burn coal back in the 1940's,
and had been converted over to heating oil. It uses a pretty standard
looking 3450 motor that's about 30 years old, and I clean and maintain the
boiler myself (a pretty damn messy job, I know). The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up. I'm guessing it has something to do with the
position of the ignition electrodes possibly interfering with the fuel spray
pattern, and I suppose I could go back and forth about a hundred times
disassembling and reassembling the fuel gun assembly until I get the
electrodes perfect, but if anybody out there can give me the proper
specifications I would very much appreciate it (there is no specs label on
this motor, I checked).

Also, can anybody give me some tips on adjusting the flame? I have some
general idea that the flame should be made as big as possible, without
giving off any smoke or long red "fingers". When I adjusted it last year,
the furnace seemed to run pretty efficiently and there wasn't much soot in
it when I cleaned it out, but it would be great if anybody could give me any
tips on this.
Thanks in advance :-)

- Logic316

"I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't
do it in the streets and frighten the horses."
-- Victor Hugo

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:38:39 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:

Hi folks,
I have an old cast iron boiler that used to burn coal back in the 1940's,
and had been converted over to heating oil. It uses a pretty standard
looking 3450 motor that's about 30 years old, and I clean and maintain the
boiler myself (a pretty damn messy job, I know).

If it was working right it wouldn't be. you either have
excess soot, or excess unburned oil, and neither is good. A well
tuned oil fired boiler burns CLEAN.

The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed out

You don't touch them. You have neither the tools nor the
knowhow.

the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up.

I dunno - throw a few more nozzles at it and see what happens.
Try some different ones. Whatever Home Depot has in stock that day
will do.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the
position of the ignition electrodes possibly interfering with the fuel spray
pattern, and I suppose I could go back and forth about a hundred times
disassembling and reassembling the fuel gun assembly until I get the
electrodes perfect, but if anybody out there can give me the proper
specifications I would very much appreciate it (there is no specs label on
this motor, I checked).

Call someone who knows WTF they're doing. PAY them to come do it.


Also, can anybody give me some tips on adjusting the flame? I have some

I just did.

general idea that the flame should be made as big as possible, without
giving off any smoke or long red "fingers". When I adjusted it last year,
the furnace seemed to run pretty efficiently and there wasn't much soot in
it when I cleaned it out, but it would be great if anybody could give me any
tips on this.
Thanks in advance :-)

- Logic316

"I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't
do it in the streets and frighten the horses."
-- Victor Hugo





--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

wrote in message
...

If it was working right it wouldn't be. you either have
excess soot, or excess unburned oil, and neither is good. A well
tuned oil fired boiler burns CLEAN.

There's always been a significant amount of soot that needed to be cleaned
out, even when I had the oil company guys work on it. There was actually
LESS soot in the boiler after I had adjusted it last year, but for some
reason the flame doesn't look the same this time around and I'm not sure
what I missed.


The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed
out

You don't touch them. You have neither the tools nor the
knowhow.

Then tell me what special tools and info I need, if you're so smart. I don't
have an exhaust gas meter, if that's what you're hinting at, but none of the
oil company technicians I've seen use those either (and I've had it serviced
by different companies). They all adjusted everything strictly by eye. This
can't be rocket science.


The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up.

I dunno - throw a few more nozzles at it and see what happens.
Try some different ones. Whatever Home Depot has in stock that day
will do.

I used the exact same type of nozzle that the technicians from the oil
company put on there. And I get my parts from local heating and plumbing
supply distributors, and shop at family-owned hardware stores, not Home
Depot, you wiseass.


Call someone who knows WTF they're doing. PAY them to come do it.

**** off. I got it right last year. You're just jealous because somebody out
there isn't giving you any work. Well pity party for you, boo ****ing
hoo....

- Logic316

"Give a man fire and he's warm for a while. Set a man on fire and he's
warm for the rest of his life."

Logic316 wrote:
wrote in message
...

If it was working right it wouldn't be. you either have
excess soot, or excess unburned oil, and neither is good. A well
tuned oil fired boiler burns CLEAN.

There's always been a significant amount of soot that needed to be
cleaned out, even when I had the oil company guys work on it. There
was actually LESS soot in the boiler after I had adjusted it last
year, but for some reason the flame doesn't look the same this time
around and I'm not sure what I missed.


The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just
vacuumed out

You don't touch them. You have neither the tools nor the
knowhow.

Then tell me what special tools and info I need, if you're so smart.
I don't have an exhaust gas meter, if that's what you're hinting at,
but none of the oil company technicians I've seen use those either
(and I've had it serviced by different companies). They all adjusted
everything strictly by eye. This can't be rocket science.


The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I
tried another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty
sure that the nozzle isn't clogged up.

I dunno - throw a few more nozzles at it and see what happens.
Try some different ones. Whatever Home Depot has in stock that day
will do.

I used the exact same type of nozzle that the technicians from the oil
company put on there. And I get my parts from local heating and
plumbing supply distributors, and shop at family-owned hardware
stores, not Home Depot, you wiseass.


Call someone who knows WTF they're doing. PAY them to come do it.

**** off. I got it right last year. You're just jealous because
somebody out there isn't giving you any work. Well pity party for
you, boo ****ing hoo....

- Logic316

"Give a man fire and he's warm for a while. Set a man on fire and he's
warm for the rest of his life."

Seems like you [Logic316] need to set YOURSELF on fire!

--
Zyp

"Zyp" wrote in message
news:e7Wdnb8ZUamW25fUnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@championbroa dband.com...

Seems like you [Logic316] need to set YOURSELF on fire!

--
Zyp

Sure thing, Zyp. But first you show me how.

- Logic316


"I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law."
-- David Dinkins, former New York City Mayor

Here's a good write-up on tuning up oil burners and adjusting
electrodes.

http://www.freepoolheat.com/oil.html

Logic316 wrote:
"Zyp" wrote in message
news:e7Wdnb8ZUamW25fUnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@championbroa dband.com...

Seems like you [Logic316] need to set YOURSELF on fire!

--
Zyp

Sure thing, Zyp. But first you show me how.

- Logic316


"I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the
law." -- David Dinkins, former New York City Mayor

???

Aren't you the one with the little saying at the end of your little message.
I'd guess you already knew how... or are you not being truthful in your
writing?


--
Zyp

"Zyp" wrote in message
news:e7Wdnb8ZUamW25fUnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@championbroa dband.com...

"Give a man fire and he's warm for a while. Set a man on fire and he's
warm for the rest of his life."

Seems like you [Logic316] need to set YOURSELF on fire!

--
Zyp

Sure thing, buddy. Come over here and show me how.

- Logic316


"I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law."
-- David Dinkins, former New York City Mayor

"Logic316" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...

If it was working right it wouldn't be. you either have
excess soot, or excess unburned oil, and neither is good. A well
tuned oil fired boiler burns CLEAN.

There's always been a significant amount of soot that needed to be cleaned
out, even when I had the oil company guys work on it. There was actually
LESS soot in the boiler after I had adjusted it last year, but for some
reason the flame doesn't look the same this time around and I'm not sure
what I missed.


You missed the simple fact that properly adjusted oil furnaces don't soot
up. If it soots up, there is too much oil and not enough air.... the oil
companies don't care about you having a properly burning furnace, they only
care about selling oil.

Now... spend a few bucks and call a *REAL* oil tech and have it done right.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

You missed the simple fact that properly adjusted oil furnaces don't soot
up. If it soots up, there is too much oil and not enough air.... the oil
companies don't care about you having a properly burning furnace, they
only care about selling oil.

Now... spend a few bucks and call a *REAL* oil tech and have it done
right.

I'm not sure I believe that, Steve. Chances are, the oil tech who screws up
your furnace settings is going to be the same one who has to vacuum it out
next year, so they do have some motivation to get it right.

- Logic316


"Private property began the instant somebody had a mind of his own."
-- E. E. Cummings

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:39:02 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
...

You missed the simple fact that properly adjusted oil furnaces don't soot
up. If it soots up, there is too much oil and not enough air.... the oil
companies don't care about you having a properly burning furnace, they
only care about selling oil.

Now... spend a few bucks and call a *REAL* oil tech and have it done
right.

I'm not sure I believe that, Steve. Chances are, the oil tech who screws up
your furnace settings is going to be the same one who has to vacuum it out
next year, so they do have some motivation to get it right.

- Logic316


"Private property began the instant somebody had a mind of his own."
-- E. E. Cummings

Except if they DO get it right they don't get paid to get dirty and
clean it out next year.

On Nov 1, 10:16*am, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:39:02 -0400, "Logic316"





wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
...

You missed the simple fact that properly adjusted oil furnaces don't soot
up. If it soots up, there is too much oil and not enough air.... the oil
companies don't care about you having a properly burning furnace, they
only care about selling oil.

Now... spend a few bucks and call a *REAL* oil tech and have it done
right.

I'm not sure I believe that, Steve. Chances are, the oil tech who screws up
your furnace settings is going to be the same one who has to vacuum it out
next year, so they do have some motivation to get it right.

- Logic316

another stupid statement from Logic.
Who the hell enjoys cleaning out a nasty dirty sooted up boiler or
furnace?
You really are a twit, logic. I think you just enjoy ****ing in the
pool.
Bubba



"Private property began the instant somebody had a mind of his own."
-- E. E. Cummings- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well its Sat noon, potential customers are home, its the season to bid
new High Efficency units, do heating turn ons, customers want new
units put in, cleaning, and repairs, and Bubbas home probably drinkin
and postin his usual rude junk. Oh the signs of success.

"Bubba" wrote in message
...

I'm not sure I believe that, Steve. Chances are, the oil tech who screws
up
your furnace settings is going to be the same one who has to vacuum it out
next year, so they do have some motivation to get it right.

- Logic316

another stupid statement from Logic.
Who the hell enjoys cleaning out a nasty dirty sooted up boiler or
furnace?
You really are a twit, logic. I think you just enjoy ****ing in the
pool.
Bubba

Booboo,
That was my point. Did you even read through my post?
I *SAID* that a technician working for an oil company could have no logical
interest in deliberately screwing up a furnace, because he wouldn't want to
have to risk cleaning out all the extra crap next year. Even when I defend
you oil company guys and try to be fair, you still argue with me! I guess if
they're all as slow as you, then they probably really are just plain
incompetent and simply can't think that far ahead.

- Logic316


The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, "Do you want mustard with
that?"

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:35:49 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

If it was working right it wouldn't be. you either have
excess soot, or excess unburned oil, and neither is good. A well
tuned oil fired boiler burns CLEAN.

There's always been a significant amount of soot that needed to be cleaned
out, even when I had the oil company guys work on it. There was actually
LESS soot in the boiler after I had adjusted it last year, but for some
reason the flame doesn't look the same this time around and I'm not sure
what I missed.


The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed
out

You don't touch them. You have neither the tools nor the
knowhow.

Then tell me what special tools and info I need, if you're so smart. I don't

**** off, ****.

have an exhaust gas meter, if that's what you're hinting at, but none of the
oil company technicians I've seen use those either (and I've had it serviced
by different companies). They all adjusted everything strictly by eye. This
can't be rocket science.


The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up.

I dunno - throw a few more nozzles at it and see what happens.
Try some different ones. Whatever Home Depot has in stock that day
will do.

I used the exact same type of nozzle that the technicians from the oil
company put on there.

Wow. THAT'S always a good idea ! Dog knows he must have been
right, and must have had the exact right one with him, eh ?

And I get my parts from local heating and plumbing
supply distributors, and shop at family-owned hardware stores, not Home
Depot, you wiseass.

That's nice, you dumbass.



Call someone who knows WTF they're doing. PAY them to come do it.

**** off. I got it right last year. You're just jealous because somebody out
there isn't giving you any work. Well pity party for you, boo ****ing
hoo....

Blow it out your ass, pussy bitch.



- Logic316

"Give a man fire and he's warm for a while. Set a man on fire and he's
warm for the rest of his life."


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky.

Sounds like you have too much oil flow or not enough air flow...

Are you sure the old nozzle was 1.35 gal per hour and not less?

Did you mess with the pressure regulator?

Is something clogging up the air flow?

Also some burners have two sets of air bands, on is a coarse
adjustment and one is a fine adjustment?

Mark

"Mark" wrote in message
...
I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle
with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle,
1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky.

Sounds like you have too much oil flow or not enough air flow...

Are you sure the old nozzle was 1.35 gal per hour and not less?

Did you mess with the pressure regulator?

Is something clogging up the air flow?

Also some burners have two sets of air bands, on is a coarse
adjustment and one is a fine adjustment?

Mark



I didn't touch the fuel pressure regulator screw, I already know from what
I've read on the web that that's a big no-no without having the proper
meter. The fuel nozzle is definitely the same as what was previously on
there (I had also tried a smaller nozzle that's 1.00 GPM, and it's just as
smoky). I had cleaned out whole the air intake last year and it's still
clear now. There isn't a fine adjustment anywhere, just the big collar on
the left of the motor.

- Logic316


"A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:14:25 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
...
I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle
with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle,
1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky.

Sounds like you have too much oil flow or not enough air flow...

Are you sure the old nozzle was 1.35 gal per hour and not less?

Did you mess with the pressure regulator?

Is something clogging up the air flow?

Also some burners have two sets of air bands, on is a coarse
adjustment and one is a fine adjustment?

Mark


Is the flame retention ring in position, and did the nozzle position
gen changed?


I didn't touch the fuel pressure regulator screw, I already know from what
I've read on the web that that's a big no-no without having the proper
meter. The fuel nozzle is definitely the same as what was previously on
there (I had also tried a smaller nozzle that's 1.00 GPM, and it's just as
smoky). I had cleaned out whole the air intake last year and it's still
clear now. There isn't a fine adjustment anywhere, just the big collar on
the left of the motor.

- Logic316


"A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."

wrote in message
...

Is the flame retention ring in position, and did the nozzle position
gen changed?

The retention ring has no way of being moved up or down along the fuel pipe,
though it can be twisted around slightly. It looks pretty primitive, as it's
permanently machined in place and there is no adjustment there. I see no way
to adjust the position of the nozzle either, you just change it and that's
it.

- Logic316


"If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody."

"Logic316" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

Is the flame retention ring in position, and did the nozzle position
gen changed?

The retention ring has no way of being moved up or down along the fuel
pipe, though it can be twisted around slightly. It looks pretty primitive,
as it's permanently machined in place and there is no adjustment there. I
see no way to adjust the position of the nozzle either, you just change it
and that's it.


I think you might need a new burner? What else could it be?

-zero


- Logic316


"If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody."

Logic316 wrote:

Hi folks,
I have an old cast iron boiler that used to burn coal back in the 1940's,
and had been converted over to heating oil. It uses a pretty standard
looking 3450 motor that's about 30 years old, and I clean and maintain the
boiler myself (a pretty damn messy job, I know). The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up. I'm guessing it has something to do with the
position of the ignition electrodes possibly interfering with the fuel spray
pattern, and I suppose I could go back and forth about a hundred times
disassembling and reassembling the fuel gun assembly until I get the
electrodes perfect, but if anybody out there can give me the proper
specifications I would very much appreciate it (there is no specs label on
this motor, I checked).

Also, can anybody give me some tips on adjusting the flame? I have some
general idea that the flame should be made as big as possible, without
giving off any smoke or long red "fingers". When I adjusted it last year,
the furnace seemed to run pretty efficiently and there wasn't much soot in
it when I cleaned it out, but it would be great if anybody could give me any
tips on this.
Thanks in advance :-)

- Logic316

"I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't
do it in the streets and frighten the horses."
-- Victor Hugo

Take 12 weeks of evening oil burner service classes at your local tech
school for a few hundred dollars, buy $600 in test equipment and then
spend the next few decades *not* giving any business to the paranoid
little twits you see responding to you from alt.hvac. It's too
complicated to learn from a newsgroup post, but it certainly isn't brain
surgery.

"Bubba" wrote in message
...

Absolutely ****in amazing. Many techs wont even mess with a oil
furnace unless they do a lot of them yet it simply amazes me how many
idiots like you will **** with something that you dont have the
slightest clue about.
How do you adjust it?
You buy expensive digital combustion efficiency equipment, spend 20
years of on the job training and then you will have a bit of a clue.
Bubba

Ok, "Bubba".
NONE of the professional techs who adjusted my furnace before ever used any
sort of combustion efficiency meter doodads. I watched them, and I know they
did it by eye. And most of them didn't look nearly old enough to have 20
years of on the job training. BTW, is it considered some sort of a
requirement to be trained in acting like a complete asshole before you can
post on Usenet? Feel free to email me privately if you live anywhere near
Westchester, NY and I'll be happy to arrange a personal meeting between your
ass and my foot and we'll see just how big your mouth is going to be then.

- Logic316

"Don't you wish there were a knob on the TV to turn up the
intelligence? There's one marked "Brightness," but it doesn't work."
-- Gallagher

On Oct 30, 6:45*pm, "Logic316" wrote:
"Bubba" wrote in message

...

Absolutely ****in amazing. Many techs wont even mess with a oil
furnace unless they do a lot of them yet it simply amazes me how many
idiots like you will **** with something that you dont have the
slightest clue about.
How do you adjust it?
You buy expensive digital combustion efficiency equipment, spend 20
years of on the job training and then you will have a bit of a clue.
Bubba

Ok, "Bubba".
NONE of the professional techs who adjusted my furnace before ever used any
sort of combustion efficiency meter doodads. I watched them, and I know they
did it by eye. And most of them didn't look nearly old enough to have 20
years of on the job training. BTW, is it considered some sort of a
requirement to be trained in acting like a complete asshole before you can
post on Usenet? Feel free to email me privately if you live anywhere near
Westchester, NY and I'll be happy to arrange a personal meeting between your
ass and my foot and we'll see just how big your mouth is going to be then..

- Logic316

"Don't you wish there were a knob on the TV to turn up the
intelligence? There's one marked "Brightness," but it doesn't work."
*-- Gallagher

It took bubba 20 years to learn it so it must be gospal. In most
cities people go to school and learn this stuff from an instructor in
a no time at all, and they learn it right the first time, not screwing
up for 19 years.

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:45:42 -0400, "Logic316"
Logic,
How does it feel

Irrelevent drivel snipped

And lastly, I love you little pussy behind the internet threat. Almost
makes me laugh. Meet me in person and then lets see how quickly you
**** your pants you little ****.
Bite me.
Bubba

I don't make threats, Booboo, I only issued you a challenge. You're
perfectly free to take it or leave it. I have a hard time taking "keyboard
warriors" seriously, and I'm curious to see if you're as boorish in person.
Go ahead and send me a private email address, and we'll take things from
there. Or you can just keep on talking trash and showing everybody that's
all you can do.

- Logic316


"Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for
its own existence."
-- Ronald Reagan

"Logic316" wrote in message
...

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:45:42 -0400, "Logic316"
Logic,
How does it feel

Irrelevent drivel snipped

And lastly, I love you little pussy behind the internet threat. Almost
makes me laugh. Meet me in person and then lets see how quickly you
**** your pants you little ****.
Bite me.
Bubba

I don't make threats, Booboo, I only issued you a challenge. You're
perfectly free to take it or leave it. I have a hard time taking "keyboard
warriors" seriously, and I'm curious to see if you're as boorish in
person. Go ahead and send me a private email address, and we'll take
things from there. Or you can just keep on talking trash and showing
everybody that's all you can do.

You got told what you needed to know...If its not what you wanted to hear,
tough...get over it. now go away.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:27:27 -0400, Bubba
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:38:39 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:

Hi folks,
I have an old cast iron boiler that used to burn coal back in the 1940's,
and had been converted over to heating oil. It uses a pretty standard
looking 3450 motor that's about 30 years old, and I clean and maintain the
boiler myself (a pretty damn messy job, I know). The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up. I'm guessing it has something to do with the
position of the ignition electrodes possibly interfering with the fuel spray
pattern, and I suppose I could go back and forth about a hundred times
disassembling and reassembling the fuel gun assembly until I get the
electrodes perfect, but if anybody out there can give me the proper
specifications I would very much appreciate it (there is no specs label on
this motor, I checked).

Also, can anybody give me some tips on adjusting the flame? I have some
general idea that the flame should be made as big as possible, without
giving off any smoke or long red "fingers". When I adjusted it last year,
the furnace seemed to run pretty efficiently and there wasn't much soot in
it when I cleaned it out, but it would be great if anybody could give me any
tips on this.
Thanks in advance :-)

- Logic316

Absolutely ****in amazing. Many techs wont even mess with a oil
furnace unless they do a lot of them yet it simply amazes me how many
idiots like you will **** with something that you dont have the
slightest clue about.
How do you adjust it?
You buy expensive digital combustion efficiency equipment, spend 20
years of on the job training and then you will have a bit of a clue.
Bubba

For many years before digital combustion efficiency meters, guys
adjusted oil burners very well entirely by eye (and ear). The guy who
used to service ours could tell in about 20 seconds if the pump
pressure was low just by looking at the spray. Adjusting the ignitor
was the same - he knew exactly how wide the gap needed to be and where
it had to be positioned. If someone had TOTALLY screwed it up, he
could get it back in shape in about 15 minutes or less. He'd set
everything up cold and dry, then start the furnace. Very seldom
required any extensive tweaking.
"I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't
do it in the streets and frighten the horses."
-- Victor Hugo

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:27:27 -0400, Bubba

For many years before digital combustion efficiency meters, guys
adjusted oil burners very well entirely by eye (and ear). The guy who
used to service ours could tell in about 20 seconds if the pump
pressure was low just by looking at the spray. Adjusting the ignitor
was the same - he knew exactly how wide the gap needed to be and where
it had to be positioned. If someone had TOTALLY screwed it up, he
could get it back in shape in about 15 minutes or less. He'd set
everything up cold and dry, then start the furnace. Very seldom
required any extensive tweaking.

I figured as much.
My motor ran perfectly last year, and the only thing I can think of that's
different now is the position of the electrodes. I knocked them out of whack
when cleaning the flame retention ring, and I repositioned them according to
some tips I found on the web, but the flame is a bit long and smoky even
with the air intake open all the way. Not to the point where it's smells or
causing a safety hazard, but I'm sure I'm not getting full efficiency right
now.

- Logic316

"No taxation without respiration."
-- Rep. Bob Schaffer, Colorado, on repeal of the death tax.

Logic316 posted for all of us...

causing a safety hazard

Oh, like high CO coming out?
--
Tekkie - I approve this advertisement/statement/utterance.

"Tekkie®" wrote in message
m...
Logic316 posted for all of us...

causing a safety hazard

Oh, like high CO coming out?

I have two CO detectors in the house, as well as a big old brick chimney
with a strong draft. This boiler and chimney were originally designed for
burning coal, so it operates on a draft system that is more than capable of
venting out excess fumes. Besides, with oil heat you're going to smell the
unburnt hydrocarbons long before the CO becomes a problem, that's why oil is
relatively much more safe than natural gas. But I guess you knew that,
right?

- Logic316


"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
-- Vice President Al Gore, 9/22/97

"Logic316" wrote in message
...

"Tekkie®" wrote in message
m...
Logic316 posted for all of us...

causing a safety hazard

Oh, like high CO coming out?

I have two CO detectors in the house, as well as a big old brick chimney
with a strong draft. This boiler and chimney were originally designed for
burning coal, so it operates on a draft system that is more than capable
of venting out excess fumes. Besides, with oil heat you're going to smell
the unburnt hydrocarbons long before the CO becomes a problem, that's why
oil is relatively much more safe than natural gas. But I guess you knew
that, right?

Actually, your wrong on all counts... but I guess you knew that and are just
trying to stir the pot.

Logic316 wrote:
"Tekkie®" wrote in message
m...
Logic316 posted for all of us...

causing a safety hazard

Oh, like high CO coming out?

I have two CO detectors in the house, as well as a big old brick chimney
with a strong draft. This boiler and chimney were originally designed for
burning coal, so it operates on a draft system that is more than capable of
venting out excess fumes. Besides, with oil heat you're going to smell the
unburnt hydrocarbons long before the CO becomes a problem, that's why oil is
relatively much more safe than natural gas. But I guess you knew that,
right?

- Logic316


"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
-- Vice President Al Gore, 9/22/97


Actually there have been more than a few cases where the family never
woke up to smell anything. Your logic is really flawed.

"Bubba" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:01:48 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:

Your logic on this one Logic again continues to amaze me.
You have two CO detectors and thats what you are banking you and your
familys life on? You need to learn what those $30-$40 CO detectors
really do and do detect.
Read here www.coexperts.com
Nope, I have nothing to do with them and I really dont care if you
read it or purchase one. Its just good info.
The fact that you think you are going to smell unburnt hydrocarbons
before any CO becomes a problem is just plain scary.
What happens at 2AM when you are in a sound sleep on a 0 degree night
and your boiler soots up? Have you actually ever seen how fast a
boiler and chimney can plug when an oil burner futzes up?? Ive seen
plenty of them and its not pretty and it happens it literally minutes.
You really need to buy a clue on what you are doing.
Bubba

If you were talking about a relatively modern boiler (which operates on
pressure rather than draft), I would understand what you mean. But
apparently you don't realize how big the passages in my boiler are. Maybe
you need to familiarize yourself with older heating equipment (circa 1945,
it really is a beauty). I already mentioned that this monster used to be a
COAL boiler, so the exhaust pipe and chimney are over a foot in diameter and
the spaces within the heat exchanger are also quite large. I've have also
been monitoring the way it runs every day, so there's no way it can just
plug up without warning. Anyhow, I figured out the problem I was having with
the flame being a bit too long and sooty. The electrodes did in fact need to
be adjusted further away, and before I simply didn't let the furnace run
long enough after changing nozzles. This time I let it run for a good half
hour afterwards (and left the air intake band open all the way), and when I
checked it after it got good and hot the flame was compact and smokeless.
It's now just a matter of getting the perfect fuel/air ratio.........

- Logic316

"A diplomat thinks twice before saying nothing."

"Bubba" wrote in message
...

Here is an absolute minimium of equipment needed to diagnose and set
an oil flame. Care to guess how long these antiquated pieces of
equipment have been around?
http://www.bacharach-inc.com/combustion-test-kits.htm

Here brainiac. Below is a link to the minimal digital efficiency
analyzer for oil. You will still need a smoke pump and draft gauge and
pump pressure meter.
Brains to operate and diagnose it all becomes real helpful.
http://www.omnicontrols.com/detail.aspx?ID=1484

Either do it right or shut the **** up.

Suggestion noted, and rejected.
Tell you what Booboo, when YOU'RE the one who pays my oil bill and has to
clean out my boiler, then you can complain and insist on having it
maintained YOUR way.

- Logic316


"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
-- Popular Mechanics, 1949

"Logic316" wrote in message
...

"Bubba" wrote in message
...

Here is an absolute minimium of equipment needed to diagnose and set
an oil flame. Care to guess how long these antiquated pieces of
equipment have been around?
http://www.bacharach-inc.com/combustion-test-kits.htm

Here brainiac. Below is a link to the minimal digital efficiency
analyzer for oil. You will still need a smoke pump and draft gauge and
pump pressure meter.
Brains to operate and diagnose it all becomes real helpful.
http://www.omnicontrols.com/detail.aspx?ID=1484

Either do it right or shut the **** up.

Suggestion noted, and rejected.
Tell you what Booboo, when YOU'RE the one who pays my oil bill and has to
clean out my boiler, then you can complain and insist on having it
maintained YOUR way.

Its your money, and you can give all you want to the oil companies.... its
not like they don't have anough already from raping folks wallets at the gas
pumps.

FWIW, whenever I install a new comfort system, its not unusual for my
customers to see a 50% decrease in their utility bills.... enough so that my
customers get a call a month or 2 after I put the system in to find out why
they are not sending all their money to the utilities anymore.

If you want to screw up your system, thats on you. you obviously have
serious issues with your furnace, get it seen to by a *competent*, licensed,
insured, professionally trained HVAC technician (oil specialist). If it cuts
your oil usage by 30% and stops the furnace from sooting up, what have you
lost??

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Its your money, and you can give all you want to the oil companies.... its
not like they don't have anough already from raping folks wallets at the
gas pumps.

FWIW, whenever I install a new comfort system, its not unusual for my
customers to see a 50% decrease in their utility bills.... enough so that
my customers get a call a month or 2 after I put the system in to find out
why they are not sending all their money to the utilities anymore.

If you want to screw up your system, thats on you. you obviously have
serious issues with your furnace, get it seen to by a *competent*,
licensed, insured, professionally trained HVAC technician (oil
specialist). If it cuts your oil usage by 30% and stops the furnace from
sooting up, what have you lost??

I will consider this.
It might be worth it to get an impartial diagnosis from a tech who doesn't
work for an oil company, at least just once. But I hope you folks understand
my position - I've always been pretty good at doing my own repairs and
maintenence around the house and garage just by reading the necessary
documentation and repair books. If I can tune a carbureted or fuel injected
automobile engine and replace my own brakes without ANY formal training (and
it still passes safety & emissions), then I fail to see why I would need to
take a bunch of classes or obtain a certification, or hire a pro, just to
tune a boiler with a 30 year old motor. The technologies are similar enough,
it's just a matter of figuring out a few steps and knowing what the proper
specs are.

- Logic316


"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
-- Robert Anton Wilson

"Logic316" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Its your money, and you can give all you want to the oil companies....
its not like they don't have anough already from raping folks wallets at
the gas pumps.

FWIW, whenever I install a new comfort system, its not unusual for my
customers to see a 50% decrease in their utility bills.... enough so that
my customers get a call a month or 2 after I put the system in to find
out why they are not sending all their money to the utilities anymore.

If you want to screw up your system, thats on you. you obviously have
serious issues with your furnace, get it seen to by a *competent*,
licensed, insured, professionally trained HVAC technician (oil
specialist). If it cuts your oil usage by 30% and stops the furnace from
sooting up, what have you lost??

I will consider this.
It might be worth it to get an impartial diagnosis from a tech who doesn't
work for an oil company, at least just once. But I hope you folks
understand my position - I've always been pretty good at doing my own
repairs and maintenence around the house and garage just by reading the
necessary documentation and repair books. If I can tune a carbureted or
fuel injected automobile engine and replace my own brakes without ANY
formal training (and it still passes safety & emissions), then I fail to
see why I would need to take a bunch of classes or obtain a certification,
or hire a pro, just to tune a boiler with a 30 year old motor. The
technologies are similar enough, it's just a matter of figuring out a few
steps and knowing what the proper specs are.

Thats great, but you still need to be able to take and inturpet instrument
readings to verify boiler is operating as it was designed to. Otherwise,
your just guessing. What if you guess wrong?? You won't know it.....unless
you take the readings, and know what the readings are telling you.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:49:06 -0400, Bubba
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:37:17 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:27:27 -0400, Bubba
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:38:39 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:

Hi folks,
I have an old cast iron boiler that used to burn coal back in the 1940's,
and had been converted over to heating oil. It uses a pretty standard
looking 3450 motor that's about 30 years old, and I clean and maintain the
boiler myself (a pretty damn messy job, I know). The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up. I'm guessing it has something to do with the
position of the ignition electrodes possibly interfering with the fuel spray
pattern, and I suppose I could go back and forth about a hundred times
disassembling and reassembling the fuel gun assembly until I get the
electrodes perfect, but if anybody out there can give me the proper
specifications I would very much appreciate it (there is no specs label on
this motor, I checked).

Also, can anybody give me some tips on adjusting the flame? I have some
general idea that the flame should be made as big as possible, without
giving off any smoke or long red "fingers". When I adjusted it last year,
the furnace seemed to run pretty efficiently and there wasn't much soot in
it when I cleaned it out, but it would be great if anybody could give me any
tips on this.
Thanks in advance :-)

- Logic316

Absolutely ****in amazing. Many techs wont even mess with a oil
furnace unless they do a lot of them yet it simply amazes me how many
idiots like you will **** with something that you dont have the
slightest clue about.
How do you adjust it?
You buy expensive digital combustion efficiency equipment, spend 20
years of on the job training and then you will have a bit of a clue.
Bubba

For many years before digital combustion efficiency meters, guys
adjusted oil burners very well entirely by eye (and ear). The guy who
used to service ours could tell in about 20 seconds if the pump
pressure was low just by looking at the spray. Adjusting the ignitor
was the same - he knew exactly how wide the gap needed to be and where
it had to be positioned. If someone had TOTALLY screwed it up, he
could get it back in shape in about 15 minutes or less. He'd set
everything up cold and dry, then start the furnace. Very seldom
required any extensive tweaking.

Here is an absolute minimium of equipment needed to diagnose and set
an oil flame. Care to guess how long these antiquated pieces of
equipment have been around?
http://www.bacharach-inc.com/combustion-test-kits.htm

Here brainiac. Below is a link to the minimal digital efficiency
analyzer for oil. You will still need a smoke pump and draft gauge and
pump pressure meter.
Brains to operate and diagnose it all becomes real helpful.
http://www.omnicontrols.com/detail.aspx?ID=1484

Either do it right or shut the **** up.
Bubba


Profanity - the attempt of a feeble mind to express itself forcibly.
'nuff said??

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:30:57 -0400, wrote:

Profanity - the attempt of a feeble mind to express itself forcibly.
'nuff said??

Where the **** do you think you are, knindergarten ? What
little platitude for 5 year olds are you going to share with us next,
maybe 'He who smelt it dealt it' ?


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

Bubba wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:38:39 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:


Hi folks,
I have an old cast iron boiler that used to burn coal back in the 1940's,
and had been converted over to heating oil. It uses a pretty standard
looking 3450 motor that's about 30 years old, and I clean and maintain the
boiler myself (a pretty damn messy job, I know). The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up. I'm guessing it has something to do with the
position of the ignition electrodes possibly interfering with the fuel spray
pattern, and I suppose I could go back and forth about a hundred times
disassembling and reassembling the fuel gun assembly until I get the
electrodes perfect, but if anybody out there can give me the proper
specifications I would very much appreciate it (there is no specs label on
this motor, I checked).

Also, can anybody give me some tips on adjusting the flame? I have some
general idea that the flame should be made as big as possible, without
giving off any smoke or long red "fingers". When I adjusted it last year,
the furnace seemed to run pretty efficiently and there wasn't much soot in
it when I cleaned it out, but it would be great if anybody could give me any
tips on this.
Thanks in advance :-)

- Logic316


Absolutely ****in amazing. Many techs wont even mess with a oil
furnace unless they do a lot of them yet it simply amazes me how many
idiots like you will **** with something that you dont have the
slightest clue about.
How do you adjust it?
You buy expensive digital combustion efficiency equipment, spend 20
years of on the job training and then you will have a bit of a clue.
Bubba

"I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't
do it in the streets and frighten the horses."
-- Victor Hugo




My oil burner tech spent about 5 minutes showing me how to set the
electrodes on my Beckett AFs. I now replace the nozzles, clean out the
oil filters, measure combustion by-products (with eBay acquired testers).

I suppose it could take 20 years to learn, but if you went to school on
a long bus 5 to 10 minutes will do.

A copy of the Beckett Oil Burner Manual (Form 6104BAF R0803) is useful
and answers most questions.

The Oil Burner Guild would like to discourage knowledgeable home owners
from doing this simple task. But, guilds work that way. If you're not
knowledgeable then you should become informed (and safe) first or hire a
guild member.

Boden

"Boden" wrote in message
...

My oil burner tech spent about 5 minutes showing me how to set the
electrodes on my Beckett AFs. I now replace the nozzles, clean out the
oil filters, measure combustion by-products (with eBay acquired testers).

I suppose it could take 20 years to learn, but if you went to school on a
long bus 5 to 10 minutes will do.

A copy of the Beckett Oil Burner Manual (Form 6104BAF R0803) is useful and
answers most questions.

The Oil Burner Guild would like to discourage knowledgeable home owners
from doing this simple task. But, guilds work that way. If you're not
knowledgeable then you should become informed (and safe) first or hire a
guild member.

Thanks, I'll look for that.
It amazes me that I've been doing my own car repairs and roof work for
years, yet nobody ever bitched at me simply for not being a state-certified
auto mechanic or roofer. And working on a car or a roof can get you killed
if you don't pay attention to basic safety procedures, yet it's something an
amateur can be quite capable of doing properly. But if I even dare to
mention around here that I touched MY own furnace, all of a sudden it's like
I stepped on the toes of the oil mafia. Makes you wonder.....

- Logic316


"...trusting the government with your privacy is like
having a Peeping Tom install your window blinds."
-- John Perry Barlow

wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:33:33 -0400, "Logic316"
wrote:

"Boden" wrote in message
...

My oil burner tech spent about 5 minutes showing me how to set the
electrodes on my Beckett AFs. I now replace the nozzles, clean out the
oil filters, measure combustion by-products (with eBay acquired testers).

I suppose it could take 20 years to learn, but if you went to school on a
long bus 5 to 10 minutes will do.

A copy of the Beckett Oil Burner Manual (Form 6104BAF R0803) is useful and
answers most questions.

The Oil Burner Guild would like to discourage knowledgeable home owners
from doing this simple task. But, guilds work that way. If you're not
knowledgeable then you should become informed (and safe) first or hire a
guild member.
Thanks, I'll look for that.
It amazes me that I've been doing my own car repairs and roof work for
years, yet nobody ever bitched at me simply for not being a state-certified
auto mechanic or roofer. And working on a car or a roof can get you killed
if you don't pay attention to basic safety procedures, yet it's something an
amateur can be quite capable of doing properly. But if I even dare to
mention around here that I touched MY own furnace, all of a sudden it's like
I stepped on the toes of the oil mafia. Makes you wonder.....

- Logic316


Nothing to wonder about if you have followed the same patteren here
for many years. If you have, then you know that most HVAC techs are
those who failed at being screen door repairmen or locksmiths. They
are an angry bunch of failures, and it shows.

*Chuckle* What a nasty thing to say. I'm glad HVAC is
not the only thing I work on or I would be ****ed off
all the time. BTW, what does your PhD cover?

TDD