I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

On Sep 12, 8:01*am, "JohnR66" wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

Please do not mess with your furnace. They are designed to run at a
certain gas pressure. Lowering the T-stat is a lot safer.

On Sep 12, 10:01*am, "JohnR66" wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

Yup and while not a 'gas man' turning it down might risk the furnace
not coming on when it should. And why would running the furnace slower
save fuel anyway?

Just suppose you were to run hot water into a pail on a cool day.
Inevitably the pail would lose a little bit of heat while you were
filling it; maybe taking a minute or so to fill the pail with hot
water, right?

Then suppose you were to set the tap to very low or even just a drip
of hot water every second or so?

At the end of maybe an hour the pail might be partially filled and the
water would have lost it's heat anyway.

After all it's heat you are trying to make, to heat the house!

A certain amount of gas or oil or wood etc. can be burned to make a
certain amount heat (depending on the efficiency of the furnace etc.)
hard to see that fiddling around with the gas/oil supply would make
the furnace any more efficient. In fact maybe make it unsafe!

It also used to be said that for a furnace/heating system to be most
effective it should be just big enough and be adjusted so that it runs
almost continuously (i.e. at highest efficiency cos it's not cycling
and cutting in and out heating up and cooling down as often), during
the coldest weather.

Don't think the car analogy is good one.

On Sep 12, 8:27�am, terry wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:01�am, "JohnR66" wrote:

I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

Yup and while not a 'gas man' turning it down might risk the furnace
not coming on when it should. And why would running the furnace slower
save fuel anyway?

Just suppose you were to run hot water into a pail on a cool day.
Inevitably the pail would lose a little bit of heat while you were
filling it; maybe taking a minute or so to fill the pail with hot
water, right?

Then suppose you were to set the tap to very low or even just a drip
of hot water every second or so?

At the end of maybe an hour the pail might be partially filled and the
water would have lost it's heat anyway.

After all it's heat you are trying to make, to heat the house!

A certain amount of gas or oil or wood etc. can be burned to make a
certain amount heat (depending on the efficiency of the furnace etc.)
hard to see that fiddling around with the gas/oil supply would make
the furnace any more efficient. In fact maybe make it unsafe!

It also used to be said that for a furnace/heating system to be most
effective it should be just big enough and be adjusted so that it runs
almost continuously (i.e. at highest efficiency cos it's not cycling
and cutting in and out heating up and cooling down as often), during
the coldest weather.

Don't think the car analogy is good one.

my best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:01:17 +0000, JohnR66 wrote:

I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace
will make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the
furnace would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat
loss and improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once
slow. When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is
on longer, yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

Gee, unless the source of this information is an Engineer, and a H & C
mechanical engineer at that, I would treat that wild donkey guess with a
grain of salt.

Reducing Flue temp will not make your furnace more efficient. Improved
design of the heat exchanger will. Aside: your furnace's gas burners are
inside a 'firebox' which keeps the carbon gas in the flue and not in the
house. The firebox has the house air blown around the outside which
picks up the heat. The better the design of the heat transfer from the
firebox to the air, the more efficient the furnace will be in heating
your home. Heat transfer also has to do with the velocity of the air,
the metal used (better transfer metal will not last as long), and of
course the temperature inside the firebox. ( I may have forgotten
something!)

Replacing the pilot light with an electric gas flame starter (like
propane outdoor grills have) will also save money.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:01:17 GMT, JohnR66 wrote:

I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.


BS. To make a gas furnace more efficient you must either get more BTU's
out of a fixed amount of gas or improve the heat transfer from the flame to
the house. More efficient furnaces have lower flue temps not because of
lower flame temps, but because more heat is transferred to the house. To
measure efficiency compare the flue temp to the duct temp.

Simply lowering the flue temp will also lower the duct temp.

On Sep 12, 7:01*am, "JohnR66" wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

It could help if ducts are restrictive and exchanger temp is to high,
mine was and I cut down on the gas shutoff valve to lower exchanger
temp to within spec. Test the temp above the exchanger and find out
what is specified and lower it to the low end of the design temp. To
high a temp also lowers exchanger life by many years.

"JohnR66" wrote in message
...
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace
will make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once
slow. When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on
longer, yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

Once you've got that figured out move on to your car---must be a way to
reduce the gas flow so that the car will run slower no matter how hard you
step on the gas pedal. You'll get where you're going, will take longer and
you will save on fuel. At least, if done right, (like putting a wooden
block under the gas pedal) the engine won't blow up---can't say the same
for your furnace.
MLD

On Sep 12, 7:01*am, "JohnR66" wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

Sure ways to help are a clean exchanger, proper burning flame, sealed
insulated ducts.

Lower flue temp is how high efficiency furnaces get their efficiency. Some
ammount of temperature is needed. On the older furnaces to create the
thermal lift to get the flue gasses out of the house. In moderately newer
ones, to keep the flue gasses from condensing in the chimney. The newest
furnaces with PVC vents, the flue gasses are cold already.

I predict that if you turn down the gas, y ou'll have other problems which
will more than use up your fuel savings.

Using your car analogy. You save 14% of the gasoline bill. However, by
driving slowly, the exhaust doesn't blow the noxious chemicals out of the
tail pipe. The corrosive combusion products eat up your exhaust system, and
you have to replace all the pipes. Further, the carbon monoxide isn't blown
out of the car. Your family develops flu like symptoms, and turns cherry
red. You are home from work for a week with killer head aches and two of
your children die from monoxide.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JohnR66" wrote in message
...
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

You think some internet legend is smarter than the engineers who design
furnaces? Not likely.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JohnR66" wrote in message
...
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...


my best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

wrote:
On Sep 12, 8:27�am, terry wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:01�am, "JohnR66" wrote:

I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.
An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.
I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.
Yup and while not a 'gas man' turning it down might risk the furnace
not coming on when it should. And why would running the furnace slower
save fuel anyway?

Just suppose you were to run hot water into a pail on a cool day.
Inevitably the pail would lose a little bit of heat while you were
filling it; maybe taking a minute or so to fill the pail with hot
water, right?

Then suppose you were to set the tap to very low or even just a drip
of hot water every second or so?

At the end of maybe an hour the pail might be partially filled and the
water would have lost it's heat anyway.

After all it's heat you are trying to make, to heat the house!

A certain amount of gas or oil or wood etc. can be burned to make a
certain amount heat (depending on the efficiency of the furnace etc.)
hard to see that fiddling around with the gas/oil supply would make
the furnace any more efficient. In fact maybe make it unsafe!

It also used to be said that for a furnace/heating system to be most
effective it should be just big enough and be adjusted so that it runs
almost continuously (i.e. at highest efficiency cos it's not cycling
and cutting in and out heating up and cooling down as often), during
the coldest weather.

Don't think the car analogy is good one.

my best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions
Hi,
Your friend is an IDIOT!

"JohnR66" wrote in message
...
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace
will make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once
slow. When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on
longer, yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.



Don't go fiddling with your furnace. If you want it at maximum efficiency
have a pro come in and clean the unit. Make sure that there is enough fresh
air coming into the furnace area for good combustion and for air flow up the
chimney.

On Sep 12, 10:33�am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
�www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...

my �best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions


well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:33�am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
�www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...

my �best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions


well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

But your friend likely understands what he is doing and the various
reasons why it may or may not be a good idea for someone else since he
can babysit the project and observe the results.

You might want to point your buddy in the direction of flame modulation.
Simply lowering the burner output is very simplistic and may or may
not work depending on how well matched the burner output is to the
highest heat loss.

On Sep 12, 6:31*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:54:09 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:33?am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
?www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

....

my ?best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

Ok, Hallerb, you ding dong. Listen up before you kill someone.
You, your ideas and your nutty Engineer crap is so full of holes it
isnt funny. This is a real simple checkout if you dont believe it.
A furnace is designed to operate within a certain range. Next time you
can, get your hands on a combustion efficiency analyzer. Put it in the
flue. On a 90% furnace just put it in the outlet pvc pipe. On a
standard furnace, just stick the probe in the metal flue. Now, start
cranking the gas pressure down and watch the CO reading (thats carbon
monoxide) go off the chart. Just for giggles, you can even turn the
gas pressure way up and get the same effect. In short, the burner was
designed to burn properly within a certain range. SO, if you are
truley bent on killing people, just keep popping off with your silly
EE ideas.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh really, there is a maximum stated temp the exchanger is designed
for and cutting gas to be within the range is normal to do. How is his
idea unsafe, how can he kill anyone, I guess down south yur ways you
exhaust into the basement because chimneys are too expensive. Running
at the low end of the exchangers temp is how I set mine up since my
hack pro was to lazy to check it. So are burners different on
Modulating gas valves, no, its just less gas. The idea has merit to
check what your temp is to be sure it is within the specified range,
and within the "range" is fine.

On Sep 12, 8:17�pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT), ransley





wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:31�pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:54:09 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:33?am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
?www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...

my ?best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles..

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

Ok, Hallerb, you ding dong. Listen up before you kill someone.
You, your ideas and your nutty Engineer crap is so full of holes it
isnt funny. This is a real simple checkout if you dont believe it.
A furnace is designed to operate within a certain range. Next time you
can, get your hands on a combustion efficiency analyzer. Put it in the
flue. On a 90% furnace just put it in the outlet pvc pipe. On a
standard furnace, just stick the probe in the metal flue. Now, start
cranking the gas pressure down and watch the CO reading (thats carbon
monoxide) go off the chart. Just for giggles, you can even turn the
gas pressure way up and get the same effect. In short, the burner was
designed to burn properly within a certain range. SO, if you are
truley bent on killing people, just keep popping off with your silly
EE ideas.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh really, there is a maximum stated temp the exchanger is designed
for and cutting gas to be within the range is normal to do. How is his
idea unsafe, how can he kill anyone, I guess down south yur ways you
exhaust into the basement because chimneys are too expensive. Running
at the low end of the exchangers temp is how I set mine up since my
hack pro was to lazy to check it. So are burners different on
Modulating gas valves, no, its just less gas. �The idea has merit to
check what your temp is to be sure it is within the specified range,
and within the "range" is fine.

Ransley,
Dont be so ****ing stupid. The max temp the heat exchanger will handle
is just one item to check. Another is the temp rise. More importantly
though is the CO produced in the exhaust flame. When you start backing
off the gas pressure you change the way the flame burns. This has a
range of adjustment and IS adjustable but not to the extent a lot of
people think. Once again, HARDHEAD...........if you dont understand or
dont believe me, DO THIS YOURSELF! Get a CO detector. Not one of those
cheap things you stick on the ceiling or plug into a wall socket but
an actual digital instrument like a Bacharach or Kane May or whatever.
Put it in the flue and start playing with the gas pressure. Watch the
meter. You will peg it very quickly MEANING, you are producing way too
much carbon monoxide in the exhaust flame. This will cause sooting. In
case you havent heard, CO poisoining can kill you. Dont be such a
dumbass. I use this instrument everday during this time while
cleaning, servicing and "tuning" furnaces.
A modulating furnace is completly different. This actually adjust the
burner air and the gas pressure at the same time. This keeps the flame
burning correctly. Talk about something you actually know about.
Oh yeah, now you can "BITE ME".
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

at his throttled back setting the flame still burned nice and blue. my
understanding is it would burn more yellow at high CO2 levels.

wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 05:21:16 -0700 (PDT), Mikepier
wrote:

On Sep 12, 8:01 am, "JohnR66" wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.
Please do not mess with your furnace. They are designed to run at a
certain gas pressure. Lowering the T-stat is a lot safer.

Last winter I lowered my thermostat everytime they told me to do so on
tv. I saved about $850 on my gas bill. However, my wife and two of
our children died from from freezing to death. Myself and my one
surviving child ran up $235,000.00 in medical and hospital bills after
we were hauled away by an ambulance. I am now permanently disabled
since they had to remove both my legs which had frozen, and my son
will never be able to reproduce, or use his fingerless hands as a
result of the cold.

Larry

When you "lowered" it, how far each time ?? 1 inch, 1 foot ?? Did
you not re-connect the wires ?? Did it get down to the floor ??
Sorry about your family. Were you able to find a nice nursing home
that accepted Medicaid ??

"JohnR66" wrote in message
...
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace
will make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once
slow. When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on
longer, yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.


There is an optimal point of efficiency that is the perfect mixture of gas
and oxygen. Rather than barbarity close or open anything and possibly cause
problems, get a service tech to check your burner. He'll use an instrument
to check oxygen content in the flue and adjust as needed.

We're installing O2 trim equipment on our boilers at work. It works very
much like the fuel injection and emissions system on your car and will
adjust every second as load changes and burner modulates. It is also
$25,000 per boiler

JohnR66 wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.


Have you considered this line of products?
http://www.intellidynellc.com/05_wintr.htm

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:01:17 GMT, "JohnR66" wrote:

I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.


It is BS. you can actually damage your furnace or produce CO By doing
this.

As an inspector, I see a lot of things done that are a bit..different.
I saw one that had taken a furnace designed to be mounted
horizontally, under a floor in the crawl space.
Person had mounted it in the basement above his existing unit,
and the exhaust from the first was directed to the fire box of the
one above. That one sent its output to a couple of bedrooms
rather than having 'dueling fans'.
Indeed, that second one recovered considerable heat from the first
one, and the exhaust from it was still warm enough to maintain
good venting.
When I saw it, I was serving as a Health Dept. inspector on Haz-Mat
duty, and my carbon monoxide detector was routinely verified to be
in excellent function.
Rather than modifying the existing unit, you might consider
alternatives.

On Sep 12, 8:01*am, "JohnR66" wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:25:59 -0700, Michael B wrote:


.... and the exhaust from the first was directed to
the fire box of the one above. That one sent its output to a couple of
bedrooms rather than having 'dueling fans'.
Indeed, that second one recovered considerable heat from the first one,
and the exhaust from it was still warm enough to maintain good venting.

Michael:

Do I presume correctly the second furnace was not connected to the gas
line, and no fire in the firebox? The only heat in the 2nd firebox came
from the exhaust of the first?

Wasn't there a problem with chimney back-drafting in winter? Or did this
happen down South where you don't get temperatures below 10 degrees F?

On Sep 12, 7:17*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT), ransley





wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:31*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:54:09 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:33?am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
?www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...

my ?best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles..

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

Ok, Hallerb, you ding dong. Listen up before you kill someone.
You, your ideas and your nutty Engineer crap is so full of holes it
isnt funny. This is a real simple checkout if you dont believe it.
A furnace is designed to operate within a certain range. Next time you
can, get your hands on a combustion efficiency analyzer. Put it in the
flue. On a 90% furnace just put it in the outlet pvc pipe. On a
standard furnace, just stick the probe in the metal flue. Now, start
cranking the gas pressure down and watch the CO reading (thats carbon
monoxide) go off the chart. Just for giggles, you can even turn the
gas pressure way up and get the same effect. In short, the burner was
designed to burn properly within a certain range. SO, if you are
truley bent on killing people, just keep popping off with your silly
EE ideas.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh really, there is a maximum stated temp the exchanger is designed
for and cutting gas to be within the range is normal to do. How is his
idea unsafe, how can he kill anyone, I guess down south yur ways you
exhaust into the basement because chimneys are too expensive. Running
at the low end of the exchangers temp is how I set mine up since my
hack pro was to lazy to check it. So are burners different on
Modulating gas valves, no, its just less gas. *The idea has merit to
check what your temp is to be sure it is within the specified range,
and within the "range" is fine.

Ransley,
Dont be so ****ing stupid. The max temp the heat exchanger will handle
is just one item to check. Another is the temp rise. More importantly
though is the CO produced in the exhaust flame. When you start backing
off the gas pressure you change the way the flame burns. This has a
range of adjustment and IS adjustable but not to the extent a lot of
people think. Once again, HARDHEAD...........if you dont understand or
dont believe me, DO THIS YOURSELF! Get a CO detector. Not one of those
cheap things you stick on the ceiling or plug into a wall socket but
an actual digital instrument like a Bacharach or Kane May or whatever.
Put it in the flue and start playing with the gas pressure. Watch the
meter. You will peg it very quickly MEANING, you are producing way too
much carbon monoxide in the exhaust flame. This will cause sooting. In
case you havent heard, CO poisoining can kill you. Dont be such a
dumbass. I use this instrument everday during this time while
cleaning, servicing and "tuning" furnaces.
A modulating furnace is completly different. This actually adjust the
burner air and the gas pressure at the same time. This keeps the flame
burning correctly. Talk about something you actually know about.
Oh yeah, now you can "BITE ME".
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bite yourself, I said within Range of specified temps, and who will he
kill, the coon on top of the chimney, unless you dont have one and
exhaust into the basement it all goes outside, is that what you guys
do down there?.

On Sep 13, 8:12*am, Phil Again wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:25:59 -0700, Michael B wrote:

.... and the exhaust from the first was directed to
the fire box of the one above. That one sent its output to a couple of
bedrooms rather than having 'dueling fans'.
Indeed, that second one recovered considerable heat from the first one,
and the exhaust from it was still warm enough to maintain good venting.

*Michael:

Do I presume correctly the second furnace was not connected to the gas
line, and no fire in the firebox? *The only heat in the 2nd firebox came
from the exhaust of the first?

Wasn't there a problem with chimney back-drafting in winter? *Or did this
happen down South where you don't get temperatures below 10 degrees F?


I was left with those questions and others too. It sounds like the
second furnace was just being used as a heat exchanger to recover some
additonal heat from the exhaust of the first furnace. I was also
confused by the ending statement: "Rather than modifying the existing
unit, you might consider alternatives. " Is he actually suggesting
this double furnace arrangement as a sound alternative? And if so,
I'd say that while not modifying the existing furnace itself, he is
making a huge change in the overall heating system.

It doesn't sound very practical to me. In addition to having to
somehow rig in a second furnace, you also have to consider that the
second furnace, which presumably is acting as a heat exchanger only,
has it's own blower. How much does it cost in electricity to run
that versus the amount of extra heat being recovered? Then, factor
in that to gain that additional heat, you are pulling air through
ducts from the conditioned living space, heating it only slightly,
then sending it back. With typical duct work, you might very well
give back much of the energy being gained due to heat loss as it's
being moved around.

It would seem to me that from any practical sense, if you want to get
more heat out of a gas furnace, just buy a high efficiency one.

On Sep 12, 7:01*am, "JohnR66" wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

And what do you loose in increased cost to run the blower, they pull
alot of power. Just set it to spec and have it completely cleaned.

old furnaces were commonly massively oversized...........

the longer a furnace runs the more efficent it is..........

so throttling back a really old furnace might save a little energy, at
the risk of CO2 poisioning if the exhaust gas isnt hot enough to draft
up the chimney.

Its probably not a good idea, but some people might try it.

On Sep 13, 6:29�pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:21:16 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Sep 12, 8:17?pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT), ransley

wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:31?pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:54:09 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:33?am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
?www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...

my ?best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

Ok, Hallerb, you ding dong. Listen up before you kill someone.
You, your ideas and your nutty Engineer crap is so full of holes it
isnt funny. This is a real simple checkout if you dont believe it.
A furnace is designed to operate within a certain range. Next time you
can, get your hands on a combustion efficiency analyzer. Put it in the
flue. On a 90% furnace just put it in the outlet pvc pipe. On a
standard furnace, just stick the probe in the metal flue. Now, start
cranking the gas pressure down and watch the CO reading (thats carbon
monoxide) go off the chart. Just for giggles, you can even turn the
gas pressure way up and get the same effect. In short, the burner was
designed to burn properly within a certain range. SO, if you are
truley bent on killing people, just keep popping off with your silly
EE ideas.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh really, there is a maximum stated temp the exchanger is designed
for and cutting gas to be within the range is normal to do. How is his
idea unsafe, how can he kill anyone, I guess down south yur ways you
exhaust into the basement because chimneys are too expensive. Running
at the low end of the exchangers temp is how I set mine up since my
hack pro was to lazy to check it. So are burners different on
Modulating gas valves, no, its just less gas. ?The idea has merit to
check what your temp is to be sure it is within the specified range,
and within the "range" is fine.

Ransley,
Dont be so ****ing stupid. The max temp the heat exchanger will handle
is just one item to check. Another is the temp rise. More importantly
though is the CO produced in the exhaust flame. When you start backing
off the gas pressure you change the way the flame burns. This has a
range of adjustment and IS adjustable but not to the extent a lot of
people think. Once again, HARDHEAD...........if you dont understand or
dont believe me, DO THIS YOURSELF! Get a CO detector. Not one of those
cheap things you stick on the ceiling or plug into a wall socket but
an actual digital instrument like a Bacharach or Kane May or whatever.
Put it in the flue and start playing with the gas pressure. Watch the
meter. You will peg it very quickly MEANING, you are producing way too
much carbon monoxide in the exhaust flame. This will cause sooting. In
case you havent heard, CO poisoining can kill you. Dont be such a
dumbass. I use this instrument everday during this time while
cleaning, servicing and "tuning" furnaces.
A modulating furnace is completly different. This actually adjust the
burner air and the gas pressure at the same time. This keeps the flame
burning correctly. Talk about something you actually know about.
Oh yeah, now you can "BITE ME".
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

at his throttled back setting the flame still burned nice and blue. my
understanding is it would burn more yellow at high CO2 levels.

God I wish you would get a clue. Do you mean to tell me that you can
tell the difference in a flame that has say a50ppm CO reading and the
difference between a 400ppm CO reading?? Bull****. You are clueless.
Again, GET A METER and try it. You will be amazed.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well my buddy ran his furnace for most of the year, without a problem.

On Sep 13, 5:36*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:13:00 -0700 (PDT), ransley





wrote:
On Sep 12, 7:17*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT), ransley

wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:31*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:54:09 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:33?am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
?www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...

my ?best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

Ok, Hallerb, you ding dong. Listen up before you kill someone.
You, your ideas and your nutty Engineer crap is so full of holes it
isnt funny. This is a real simple checkout if you dont believe it.
A furnace is designed to operate within a certain range. Next time you
can, get your hands on a combustion efficiency analyzer. Put it in the
flue. On a 90% furnace just put it in the outlet pvc pipe. On a
standard furnace, just stick the probe in the metal flue. Now, start
cranking the gas pressure down and watch the CO reading (thats carbon
monoxide) go off the chart. Just for giggles, you can even turn the
gas pressure way up and get the same effect. In short, the burner was
designed to burn properly within a certain range. SO, if you are
truley bent on killing people, just keep popping off with your silly
EE ideas.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh really, there is a maximum stated temp the exchanger is designed
for and cutting gas to be within the range is normal to do. How is his
idea unsafe, how can he kill anyone, I guess down south yur ways you
exhaust into the basement because chimneys are too expensive. Running
at the low end of the exchangers temp is how I set mine up since my
hack pro was to lazy to check it. So are burners different on
Modulating gas valves, no, its just less gas. *The idea has merit to
check what your temp is to be sure it is within the specified range,
and within the "range" is fine.

Ransley,
Dont be so ****ing stupid. The max temp the heat exchanger will handle
is just one item to check. Another is the temp rise. More importantly
though is the CO produced in the exhaust flame. When you start backing
off the gas pressure you change the way the flame burns. This has a
range of adjustment and IS adjustable but not to the extent a lot of
people think. Once again, HARDHEAD...........if you dont understand or
dont believe me, DO THIS YOURSELF! Get a CO detector. Not one of those
cheap things you stick on the ceiling or plug into a wall socket but
an actual digital instrument like a Bacharach or Kane May or whatever.
Put it in the flue and start playing with the gas pressure. Watch the
meter. You will peg it very quickly MEANING, you are producing way too
much carbon monoxide in the exhaust flame. This will cause sooting. In
case you havent heard, CO poisoining can kill you. Dont be such a
dumbass. I use this instrument everday during this time while
cleaning, servicing and "tuning" furnaces.
A modulating furnace is completly different. This actually adjust the
burner air and the gas pressure at the same time. This keeps the flame
burning correctly. Talk about something you actually know about.
Oh yeah, now you can "BITE ME".
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bite yourself, I said within Range of specified temps, and who will he
kill, the coon on top of the chimney, unless you dont have one and
exhaust into the basement it all goes outside, is that what you guys
do down there?.

Ransley, sometimes I think you are dumber than a box of rocks.
Temps are only one part. More important is how well the flame is
burning and you can NOT visually look at a flame and tell if it is
producing CO or not.
You crank the pressure down, go to sleep on a cold night, the furnace
starts producing CO, it starts producing soot sometime thereafter and
WHA-LAAH. You now have a home full of dead people. Dont you read the
freaking news? It happens all the time in the winter. Face it. You
DONT know what you are talking about.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Really if you want efficent buy it don,t try the cheap diy methods Ive
yet to hear one that works cept for changing your filter . If you are
so cheap as to play with something you know nothing about then you
desearve as the previous poster said to go to sleep as it cost less.
Yes flames can be set but not for a gas saving but for proper burn .
Basic gas knowledge .

wrote in message

well my buddy ran his furnace for most of the year, without a problem.

Define problem. It may have heated, but it may have been too hot from being
too lean or too much co, or somenumber of things that don't show up right
away.

On Sep 13, 5:36*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:13:00 -0700 (PDT), ransley





wrote:
On Sep 12, 7:17*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT), ransley

wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:31*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:54:09 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:33?am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
?www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...

my ?best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

Ok, Hallerb, you ding dong. Listen up before you kill someone.
You, your ideas and your nutty Engineer crap is so full of holes it
isnt funny. This is a real simple checkout if you dont believe it.
A furnace is designed to operate within a certain range. Next time you
can, get your hands on a combustion efficiency analyzer. Put it in the
flue. On a 90% furnace just put it in the outlet pvc pipe. On a
standard furnace, just stick the probe in the metal flue. Now, start
cranking the gas pressure down and watch the CO reading (thats carbon
monoxide) go off the chart. Just for giggles, you can even turn the
gas pressure way up and get the same effect. In short, the burner was
designed to burn properly within a certain range. SO, if you are
truley bent on killing people, just keep popping off with your silly
EE ideas.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh really, there is a maximum stated temp the exchanger is designed
for and cutting gas to be within the range is normal to do. How is his
idea unsafe, how can he kill anyone, I guess down south yur ways you
exhaust into the basement because chimneys are too expensive. Running
at the low end of the exchangers temp is how I set mine up since my
hack pro was to lazy to check it. So are burners different on
Modulating gas valves, no, its just less gas. *The idea has merit to
check what your temp is to be sure it is within the specified range,
and within the "range" is fine.

Ransley,
Dont be so ****ing stupid. The max temp the heat exchanger will handle
is just one item to check. Another is the temp rise. More importantly
though is the CO produced in the exhaust flame. When you start backing
off the gas pressure you change the way the flame burns. This has a
range of adjustment and IS adjustable but not to the extent a lot of
people think. Once again, HARDHEAD...........if you dont understand or
dont believe me, DO THIS YOURSELF! Get a CO detector. Not one of those
cheap things you stick on the ceiling or plug into a wall socket but
an actual digital instrument like a Bacharach or Kane May or whatever.
Put it in the flue and start playing with the gas pressure. Watch the
meter. You will peg it very quickly MEANING, you are producing way too
much carbon monoxide in the exhaust flame. This will cause sooting. In
case you havent heard, CO poisoining can kill you. Dont be such a
dumbass. I use this instrument everday during this time while
cleaning, servicing and "tuning" furnaces.
A modulating furnace is completly different. This actually adjust the
burner air and the gas pressure at the same time. This keeps the flame
burning correctly. Talk about something you actually know about.
Oh yeah, now you can "BITE ME".
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bite yourself, I said within Range of specified temps, and who will he
kill, the coon on top of the chimney, unless you dont have one and
exhaust into the basement it all goes outside, is that what you guys
do down there?.

Ransley, sometimes I think you are dumber than a box of rocks.
Temps are only one part. More important is how well the flame is
burning and you can NOT visually look at a flame and tell if it is
producing CO or not.
You crank the pressure down, go to sleep on a cold night, the furnace
starts producing CO, it starts producing soot sometime thereafter and
WHA-LAAH. You now have a home full of dead people. Dont you read the
freaking news? It happens all the time in the winter. Face it. You
DONT know what you are talking about.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bubba you are full of ****, read what I wrote, I said Put It In Spec.
Even so post a link to someone who died with a good chimney, you are
the idiot who thinks a boiler cant get heat up 30 feet on 10lb water
so your irational "panicking" doesnt suprise me.

On Sep 13, 9:47�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote in message
well my buddy ran his furnace for most of the year, without a problem.

Define problem. �It may have heated, but it may have been too hot from being
too lean or too much co, or somenumber of things that don't show up right
away.

it ran throttled back for nearly a year, burners didnt get sooted up,
home was warm. no one got ill they have a CO2 detector it never went
off......

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:01:17 GMT, "JohnR66" wrote:

I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.


That's simply the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Do not do this
or your asking for problems!

On Sep 14, 9:20*am, Nate Certified Heating And Air Specialist wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:01:17 GMT, "JohnR66" wrote:
I heard that adjusting the gas valve on my standard natural gas furnace will
make it more efficient.
By partially closing the gas valve reduces the flame. Although the furnace
would run longer, the flue temp is reduced meaning lower heat loss and
improvement in efficiency.

An analogy is like driving a car the same distance once fast and once slow.
When driving slower, it obviously will take longer, the engine is on longer,
yet fuel usage is less.

I have no way to verify if this is BS or not.

That's simply the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.


Guess you haven't been around this group long. lol



Do not do this
or your asking for problems!

When I observed this, here in Louisville, high efficiency furnaces
were extremely expensive. The guy had run supply and delivery
duct from the bedrooms, they only got heat when the other unit
was running, and indeed, they stayed warm too, giving indication
of the extent of heat to be recovered with an old unit.
If I had been doing it, my efforts towards heat recovery would
have been on a water heater, which typically has more loss
because of its design. I've seen some interesting arrangements
with vehicle exhaust tubing and computer fans.
Here, the January average temperature is 30 degrees, with infrequent
excursions into the single digits.

On Sep 13, 9:31*am, wrote:
On Sep 13, 8:12*am, Phil Again wrote:



On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:25:59 -0700, Michael B wrote:

.... and the exhaust from the first was directed to
the fire box of the one above. That one sent its output to a couple of
bedrooms rather than having 'dueling fans'.
Indeed, that second one recovered considerable heat from the first one,
and the exhaust from it was still warm enough to maintain good venting.

*Michael:

Do I presume correctly the second furnace was not connected to the gas
line, and no fire in the firebox? *The only heat in the 2nd firebox came
from the exhaust of the first?

Wasn't there a problem with chimney back-drafting in winter? *Or did this
happen down South where you don't get temperatures below 10 degrees F?

I was left with those questions and others too. *It sounds like the
second furnace was just being used as a heat exchanger to recover some
additonal heat from the exhaust of the first furnace. * I was also
confused by the ending statement: "Rather than modifying the existing
unit, you might consider alternatives. " * Is he actually suggesting
this double furnace arrangement as a sound alternative? * And if so,
I'd say that while not modifying the existing furnace itself, he is
making a huge change in the overall heating system.

It doesn't sound very practical to me. * In addition to having to
somehow rig in a second furnace, you also have to consider that the
second furnace, which presumably is acting as a heat exchanger only,
has it's own blower. * How much does it cost in electricity to run
that versus the amount of extra heat being recovered? * Then, factor
in that to gain that additional heat, you are pulling air through
ducts from the conditioned living space, heating it only slightly,
then sending it back. * With typical duct work, you might very well
give back much of the energy being gained due to heat loss as it's
being moved around.

It would seem to me that from any practical sense, if you want to get
more heat out of a gas furnace, just buy a high efficiency one.

On Sep 14, 8:13*am, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:05:38 -0700 (PDT), ransley





wrote:
On Sep 13, 5:36*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:13:00 -0700 (PDT), ransley

wrote:
On Sep 12, 7:17*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT), ransley

wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:31*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:54:09 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:33?am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Your friend doesn't have a furnace company do the annual maintenance on his
furnace. He thinks he's competent to tell you that "no problems" after
adjusting settings?

Please take out a life insurance policy on his family, and put me as the
beneficiary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
?www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...

my ?best friend throttled his back last winter, and had no troubles.

wouldnt recommend this for a direct vent 90+ type.

his furnace would occasionally gop boom on start up, throttled back it
didnt but ran longer.

he cleaned the burners this summer they were clogged near pilot light,
no more boom explosions

well he has multiple engineering degrees, and his best friend has a
PHD in mechanical engineering

interestingly he had a service company out who just said replace
furnace. while another friend a retired HVAC instructor said clean
burners

my buddy doesnt believe a new furnace will save him money. I replaced
our furnace by spring the proof will be in equitable gas bills

Incidently my buddy who cleaned his furnace converted both his
vehicles to compressed natural gas in the 70s and they still run on it
today.

not only did he design and build the system his machine shop and
foundry produced nearly all the parts.......

he is a retired teacher.....his effective price per gallon is about 2
bucks, natural gas has nerarly doiubled in cost in the last 2 years:
(...

NEXT

Ok, Hallerb, you ding dong. Listen up before you kill someone.
You, your ideas and your nutty Engineer crap is so full of holes it
isnt funny. This is a real simple checkout if you dont believe it.

On Sep 15, 6:43*am, Michael B wrote:
When I observed this, here in Louisville, high efficiency furnaces
were extremely expensive. The guy had run supply and delivery
duct from the bedrooms, they only got heat when the other unit
was running, and indeed, they stayed warm too, giving indication
of the extent of heat to be recovered with an old unit.
If I had been doing it, my efforts towards heat recovery would
have been on a water heater, which typically has more loss
because of its design. I've seen some interesting arrangements
with vehicle exhaust tubing and computer fans.
Here, the January average temperature is 30 degrees, with infrequent
excursions into the single digits.

On Sep 13, 9:31*am, wrote:

On Sep 13, 8:12*am, Phil Again wrote:

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:25:59 -0700, Michael B wrote:

.... and the exhaust from the first was directed to
the fire box of the one above. That one sent its output to a couple of
bedrooms rather than having 'dueling fans'.
Indeed, that second one recovered considerable heat from the first one,
and the exhaust from it was still warm enough to maintain good venting.

*Michael:

Do I presume correctly the second furnace was not connected to the gas
line, and no fire in the firebox? *The only heat in the 2nd firebox came
from the exhaust of the first?

Wasn't there a problem with chimney back-drafting in winter? *Or did this
happen down South where you don't get temperatures below 10 degrees F?

I was left with those questions and others too. *It sounds like the
second furnace was just being used as a heat exchanger to recover some
additonal heat from the exhaust of the first furnace. * I was also
confused by the ending statement: "Rather than modifying the existing
unit, you might consider alternatives. " * Is he actually suggesting
this double furnace arrangement as a sound alternative? * And if so,
I'd say that while not modifying the existing furnace itself, he is
making a huge change in the overall heating system.

It doesn't sound very practical to me. * In addition to having to
somehow rig in a second furnace, you also have to consider that the
second furnace, which presumably is acting as a heat exchanger only,
has it's own blower. * How much does it cost in electricity to run
that versus the amount of extra heat being recovered? * Then, factor
in that to gain that additional heat, you are pulling air through
ducts from the conditioned living space, heating it only slightly,
then sending it back. * With typical duct work, you might very well
give back much of the energy being gained due to heat loss as it's
being moved around.

It would seem to me that from any practical sense, if you want to get
more heat out of a gas furnace, just buy a high efficiency one.

By the way, the existing furnace was a hot water system unit, built
during the days that it was more expensive to meter the gas than
for the actual gas. My, things have changed.