I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

TIA

On Jun 13, 4:58*pm, "
wrote:
I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

TIA

You get Transfer panel so its all a safe no brainer, no overload, no
death, no refusal to reconnect, its balanced. maybe 200$ at Lowes
prewired and labeled and 2 - 5 hrs work

wrote in message
...
I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

Your little circuit doesn't have a ground? That is pretty idiotic; I would
recommend against using it. Who knows what else is done improperly.

"jack" wrote:

I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

Your little circuit doesn't have a ground? That is pretty idiotic; I would
recommend against using it. Who knows what else is done improperly.

Furthermore, backfeeding a house circuit through an outlet is about the
stupidest thing you can do. If it only affected your house, I'd say go for it
and what what happens when your insurance company refuses to pay out any claims.
Seeing the legal prosecution for endangering emergency workers would also be fun
if it wasn't for the potential threat to their life.

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:23:25 -0600, Robert Neville
wrote:


"jack" wrote:

I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

Your little circuit doesn't have a ground? That is pretty idiotic; I would
recommend against using it. Who knows what else is done improperly.

Furthermore, backfeeding a house circuit through an outlet is about the
stupidest thing you can do. If it only affected your house, I'd say go for it
and what what happens when your insurance company refuses to pay out any claims.
Seeing the legal prosecution for endangering emergency workers would also be fun
if it wasn't for the potential threat to their life.

Backfeeding your house with a generator is a wise thing to do if you
have a transfer switch.

It is dangerous, without one, for many reasons.

metspitzer wrote:

Furthermore, backfeeding a house circuit through an outlet is about the
stupidest thing you can do. If it only affected your house, I'd say go for it
and what what happens when your insurance company refuses to pay out any claims.
Seeing the legal prosecution for endangering emergency workers would also be fun
if it wasn't for the potential threat to their life.

Backfeeding your house with a generator is a wise thing to do if you
have a transfer switch.

It is dangerous, without one, for many reasons.

You need to read a bit closer. I said that backfeeding a house _through an
outlet_ is about the stupidest thing you can do. There is no way to wire a
transfer switch into an outlet.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:10:34 -0600, Robert Neville
wrote:


metspitzer wrote:

Furthermore, backfeeding a house circuit through an outlet is about the
stupidest thing you can do. If it only affected your house, I'd say go for it
and what what happens when your insurance company refuses to pay out any claims.
Seeing the legal prosecution for endangering emergency workers would also be fun
if it wasn't for the potential threat to their life.

Backfeeding your house with a generator is a wise thing to do if you
have a transfer switch.

It is dangerous, without one, for many reasons.

You need to read a bit closer. I said that backfeeding a house _through an
outlet_ is about the stupidest thing you can do. There is no way to wire a
transfer switch into an outlet.

It is common to use an outlet made especially for this purpose. It
has a special male plug that has a dead front.

This assures there are no live pins on any of the cords while you are
using the generator. It is not the famous "suicide cord"

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:10:34 -0600, Robert Neville
wrote:


metspitzer wrote:

Furthermore, backfeeding a house circuit through an outlet is about the
stupidest thing you can do. If it only affected your house, I'd say go for it
and what what happens when your insurance company refuses to pay out any claims.
Seeing the legal prosecution for endangering emergency workers would also be fun
if it wasn't for the potential threat to their life.

Backfeeding your house with a generator is a wise thing to do if you
have a transfer switch.

It is dangerous, without one, for many reasons.

You need to read a bit closer. I said that backfeeding a house _through an
outlet_ is about the stupidest thing you can do. There is no way to wire a
transfer switch into an outlet.

Actually you are correct. You have to use an "inlet"

On Jun 13, 3:58*pm, "jack" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

Your little circuit doesn't have a ground? *That is pretty idiotic; I would
recommend against using it. *Who knows what else is done improperly.

Isn't the transfer the box that has the 2 toggle switches to switch
between power company and generator? Everything was already in place
and working when I bought the house. The only thing missing was how
the generator hooked up to the 3-wires going to the sub-panel. What
ever contraption the previous owner used to connect his generator to
the end of the 3 wires is missing and a mystery to me. I am pretty
certain that whatever he did was correct. I just don't know what he
used to go from 4 wires to 3 wires.

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:26:09 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 13, 3:58*pm, "jack" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

Your little circuit doesn't have a ground? *That is pretty idiotic; I would
recommend against using it. *Who knows what else is done improperly.

Isn't the transfer the box that has the 2 toggle switches to switch
between power company and generator? Everything was already in place
and working when I bought the house. The only thing missing was how
the generator hooked up to the 3-wires going to the sub-panel. What
ever contraption the previous owner used to connect his generator to
the end of the 3 wires is missing and a mystery to me. I am pretty
certain that whatever he did was correct. I just don't know what he
used to go from 4 wires to 3 wires.

This is the proper cord.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100428047


You can safely make one for a lot less.

wrote in message
...
On Jun 13, 3:58 pm, "jack" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

Your little circuit doesn't have a ground? That is pretty idiotic; I would
recommend against using it. Who knows what else is done improperly.

Isn't the transfer the box that has the 2 toggle switches to switch
between power company and generator? Everything was already in place
and working when I bought the house. The only thing missing was how
the generator hooked up to the 3-wires going to the sub-panel. What
ever contraption the previous owner used to connect his generator to
the end of the 3 wires is missing and a mystery to me. I am pretty
certain that whatever he did was correct. I just don't know what he
used to go from 4 wires to 3 wires.


The previous owner probably used a suicide cord and was smart not to leave
it behind for you. The two independent toggle switches could be three way
switches that toggle between generator power and street power. However the
two poles must be switched together, not independently which makes your set
up wrong and potentially unsafe.

You need to re-do this whole connection. You need a flanged inlet to
connect your cord to. You need a real transfer switch or an interlock kit
to make the transfer. And you will need to fabricate or purchase an
appropriate cord.

"John Grabowski" wrote in
:


wrote in message
.
.. On Jun 13, 3:58 pm, "jack" wrote:
wrote in message


...

I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers
2 120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How
do I make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white
wire is attached to some kind of common connection and the red and
black are each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the
power between the power company and the generator.

Your little circuit doesn't have a ground? That is pretty idiotic; I
would recommend against using it. Who knows what else is done
improperly.

Isn't the transfer the box that has the 2 toggle switches to switch
between power company and generator? Everything was already in place
and working when I bought the house. The only thing missing was how
the generator hooked up to the 3-wires going to the sub-panel. What
ever contraption the previous owner used to connect his generator to
the end of the 3 wires is missing and a mystery to me. I am pretty
certain that whatever he did was correct. I just don't know what he
used to go from 4 wires to 3 wires.


The previous owner probably used a suicide cord and was smart not to
leave it behind for you. The two independent toggle switches could be
three way switches that toggle between generator power and street
power. However the two poles must be switched together, not
independently which makes your set up wrong and potentially unsafe.

You need to re-do this whole connection. You need a flanged inlet to
connect your cord to. You need a real transfer switch or an interlock
kit to make the transfer. And you will need to fabricate or purchase
an appropriate cord.



I'd say that he needs to have a licensed electrician inspect that "setup"
and make CERTAIN it's safe,or get rid of it completely and put in a
trustworthy system.

Better to be safe than sorry.
It could be HIS own life that gets taken,or someone very dear to him.

and don't forget about carbon monoxide.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Jun 13, 5:58�pm, "
wrote:
I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

TIA

did you know some main service breaker boxes support a either normal
or emergency mode lock out, which safely backfeeds your home and
prevents accidently powering the power companies lines

On Jun 13, 8:36 pm, " wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:58�pm, "

wrote:
I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

TIA

did you know some main service breaker boxes support a either normal
or emergency mode lock out, which safely backfeeds your home and
prevents accidently powering the power companies lines

I think that the best thing to do at this point is to provide a link
to pictures of the configuration. I will work on this today. I believe
the installation was done professionally and the solution is simple
but I just do not have the resources beyond asking for help here.
Thanks for everyones input.

wrote:
....

I think that the best thing to do at this point is to provide a link
to pictures of the configuration. I will work on this today. I believe
the installation was done professionally and the solution is simple
but I just do not have the resources beyond asking for help here.

It would undoubtedly help, but I have a pretty good idea what you'll
show will be a jury-rigged setup that isn't proper.

If you don't have the resources to get an electrician to inspect as
someone else suggested, I think you should simply not attempt to use the
generator until you can do so.

Unless it is approved (and I seriously doubt the arrangement you have
described is or has been), you cannot legally hook it up anyway in any
jurisdiction. The danger of "backfeeding" thru your service transformer
to a utility worker the high voltage on the other side of the
transformer is simply unacceptable w/o a a _PROPER_ transfer switch
arrangement (and two toggle switches ain't proper).

The fact the former owner apparently didn't even connect the ground is a
problem and shouldn't use w/o it, but it pales in comparison to the
other as severity of risk.

--

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 13, 8:36 pm, " wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:58?pm, "

wrote:
I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

TIA

did you know some main service breaker boxes support a either normal
or emergency mode lock out, which safely backfeeds your home and
prevents accidently powering the power companies lines

I think that the best thing to do at this point is to provide a link
to pictures of the configuration. I will work on this today. I believe
the installation was done professionally and the solution is simple
but I just do not have the resources beyond asking for help here.
Thanks for everyones input.

Take pictures of what you have. And/or the voltage and current
ratings of the plugs

Post them to tinypic.com, then post the links here.

The first thing that tells me the installation was NOT professional is the
collection of individual wires that leave the bottom of the "transfer
switch", the center bunch have a short length of flexible plastic conduit
that doesn't go all the way to the breaker box and it is attached to the box
with the wrong type of connector. They ALL should be enclosed in conduit or
other approved sheath.

The second thing, is that all the Romex cables are strung loose and not
attached to the studs as they are required.

The third thing, is the homemade "transfer box" with the Dymo type labels
that is made out of an electrical junction box. Toggle switches do not
usually have the capacity for a 5kw generator, provide no separation between
generator and utility power and don't provide forced disconnect of one
source before connecting to another power source. Plus each hot leg of the
circuit is switched separately instead of being tied together. In some
areas the neutral needs to be switched as well.

Install a proper legal transfer switch according to the NEC code and be
safe.


wrote in message
...
On Jun 13, 8:36 pm, " wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:58�pm, "

wrote:
I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

TIA

did you know some main service breaker boxes support a either normal
or emergency mode lock out, which safely backfeeds your home and
prevents accidently powering the power companies lines

I think that the best thing to do at this point is to provide a link
to pictures of the configuration. I will work on this today. I believe
the installation was done professionally and the solution is simple
but I just do not have the resources beyond asking for help here.
Thanks for everyones input.

On Jun 13, 7:58*pm, "
wrote:
I need to make a short extension cord that goes from my portable
generator 240V 4-wire receptacle to a 3-wire receptacle that powers 2
120V house circuits. The 3-wires are red and black and white. How do I
make this? The 3 wires go into a junction box where the white wire is
attached to some kind of common connection and the red and black are
each attached to its own toggle switch that flips the power between
the power company and the generator.

TIA

Don't think the OP has a very good appreciation of the issues,
technical and legal liabilities involved; even if the arrangement (of
a previous owner) previously seemed to work OK!

It does 'sound' as though the generator output has; live (red), live
(black, neutral (white), and should have a green ground wire. Any of
those missing, then potentially unsafe and/or could cause damage to
house appliances!!!

Utility workers working on 'downed' lines during/after an emergency
can and understand , HAVE, received fatal electric shocks from line
which they understood were disconnected; by 'back feeds' from
negligent homeowners using improperly connected generators!

terry wrote:

Don't think the OP has a very good appreciation of the issues,
technical and legal liabilities involved; even if the arrangement (of
a previous owner) previously seemed to work OK!

It does 'sound' as though the generator output has; live (red), live
(black, neutral (white), and should have a green ground wire. Any of
those missing, then potentially unsafe and/or could cause damage to
house appliances!!!

Utility workers working on 'downed' lines during/after an emergency
can and understand , HAVE, received fatal electric shocks from line
which they understood were disconnected; by 'back feeds' from
negligent homeowners using improperly connected generators!

That's a possibility, yet I wonder who's making the bigger mistake: the
homeowner who doesn't know any better or the professional lineman who
should.

I'd think any lineman who treats a downed power line as "dead" will end up
that way himself.

HeyBub wrote:
terry wrote:
Don't think the OP has a very good appreciation of the issues,
technical and legal liabilities involved; even if the arrangement (of
a previous owner) previously seemed to work OK!

It does 'sound' as though the generator output has; live (red), live
(black, neutral (white), and should have a green ground wire. Any of
those missing, then potentially unsafe and/or could cause damage to
house appliances!!!

Utility workers working on 'downed' lines during/after an emergency
can and understand , HAVE, received fatal electric shocks from line
which they understood were disconnected; by 'back feeds' from
negligent homeowners using improperly connected generators!

That's a possibility, yet I wonder who's making the bigger mistake: the
homeowner who doesn't know any better or the professional lineman who
should.

Neither mistake is any less than the other--ignorance is no excuse,
particularly in a case where the person (OP in this case) can no longer
even claim ignorance.

I'd think any lineman who treats a downed power line as "dead" will end up
that way himself.

It has indeed happened, not always from downed lines but supposedly
isolated lines. Our local REC had a lineman burned severely and very
lucky he wasn't killed by such an incident where the generator was put
onto the line _during_ the time they were working on a feeder that was
physically disconnected from the line source but a secondary transformer
was on the other side.
--

On Jun 14, 2:23*pm, dpb wrote:

I'd think any lineman who treats a downed power line as "dead" will end up
that way himself.

It has indeed happened, not always from downed lines but supposedly
isolated lines. * Our local REC had a lineman burned severely and very
lucky he wasn't killed by such an incident where the generator was put
onto the line _during_ the time they were working on a feeder that was
physically disconnected from the line source but a secondary transformer
was on the other side.
.
The 'downed' line was used more as figure of speech! And, while some
truth in that, hard working lines people working extra long hours
under storm or other conditions, dealing with broken off wires etc.;
maybe staff brought in from other assisting power companies, to
restore power, deserve better consideration.
Ever since the 1950s while I worked for a telecomm. company that
shared poles with power lines there have been some accidents and
FATALITIES.
Usually involving power company linemen!
Since the availaibility of emergency generators at prices affordable
to many home owners the risk of back feeding tfrom a house service by
an improperly connected generator through distribution transformer
back to primary 13 or 22 kilovolts has existed.
It behoves us to 'do it right'!

"terry" wrote in message
...
On Jun 14, 2:23 pm, dpb wrote:

I'd think any lineman who treats a downed power line as "dead" will end
up
that way himself.

It has indeed happened, not always from downed lines but supposedly
isolated lines. Our local REC had a lineman burned severely and very
lucky he wasn't killed by such an incident where the generator was put
onto the line _during_ the time they were working on a feeder that was
physically disconnected from the line source but a secondary transformer
was on the other side.
..
The 'downed' line was used more as figure of speech! And, while some
truth in that, hard working lines people working extra long hours
under storm or other conditions, dealing with broken off wires etc.;
maybe staff brought in from other assisting power companies, to
restore power, deserve better consideration.
Ever since the 1950s while I worked for a telecomm. company that
shared poles with power lines there have been some accidents and
FATALITIES.
Usually involving power company linemen!
Since the availaibility of emergency generators at prices affordable
to many home owners the risk of back feeding tfrom a house service by
an improperly connected generator through distribution transformer
back to primary 13 or 22 kilovolts has existed.
It behoves us to 'do it right'!
Every time this discussion comes up, it seems the discussion is only of
possible hazards to trained and well equipped linemen working on a
distribution system. Linemen are not the only persons who may accidently or
otherwise come in contact with a broken or otherwise downed power line. It
is possible for a service drop line to break loose during a storm and then
be backfed from the house it is still connected to. I would not want the
possibility of being responsible for any power being present on presumably
dead lines, whether on poles or on the ground.

Don Young

dpb wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
terry wrote:
Don't think the OP has a very good appreciation of the issues,
technical and legal liabilities involved; even if the arrangement (of
a previous owner) previously seemed to work OK!

It does 'sound' as though the generator output has; live (red), live
(black, neutral (white), and should have a green ground wire. Any of
those missing, then potentially unsafe and/or could cause damage to
house appliances!!!

Utility workers working on 'downed' lines during/after an emergency
can and understand , HAVE, received fatal electric shocks from line
which they understood were disconnected; by 'back feeds' from
negligent homeowners using improperly connected generators!

That's a possibility, yet I wonder who's making the bigger mistake: the
homeowner who doesn't know any better or the professional lineman who
should.

Neither mistake is any less than the other--ignorance is no excuse,
particularly in a case where the person (OP in this case) can no longer
even claim ignorance.

I'd think any lineman who treats a downed power line as "dead" will end up
that way himself.

It has indeed happened, not always from downed lines but supposedly
isolated lines. Our local REC had a lineman burned severely and very
lucky he wasn't killed by such an incident where the generator was put
onto the line _during_ the time they were working on a feeder that was
physically disconnected from the line source but a secondary transformer
was on the other side.
--

Unfortunate, but they failed to follow procedures and ground any
conductor they were going to work on without using appropriate gear for
live conductors.