We had a leak in the master bath (upstairs) and so now in the midst of
a complete bathroom remodel. Electrical question....

The old bathroom had two circuits flowing into it - the first (15A,
14/2 wire) connected to one outlet (not GFI) and then hopped to
another bathroom where it connected to an outlet there. The other
circuit was sort of normal lighting/fixtures/15A/14-2 wiring, etc.

My question is with the outlets. I want to A) make sure they're GFI,
B) safe as they need to be, and C) add another. With the remodel &
current code do I have to change the whole circuit to 20A? Which
means I'd have to pull all the existing 14/2 cabling and replace with
12/2?

If I do this, then what is the likelihood of me being able to
disconnect the cable at the breaker box, and then pulling the cable up
two floors to the attic through the wall? Is it likely stapled inside
the wall? I don't want to damage the 4 or 5 other cables running down
the same hole through top/bottom plates.

Is a better bet for me to just disconnect the 15A circuit breaker &
tie off that cable so it's dead. Then add a fresh 20A circuit
breaker, and go in the crawl space (very accessible), run the cable
down, then up the HVAC chase to the attic? I think the run length
would actually be about the same.

On May 29, 2:41*pm, CB wrote:
We had a leak in the master bath (upstairs) and so now in the midst of
a complete bathroom remodel. *Electrical question....

The old bathroom had two circuits flowing into it - the first (15A,
14/2 wire) connected to one outlet (not GFI) and then hopped to
another bathroom where it connected to an outlet there. *The other
circuit was sort of normal lighting/fixtures/15A/14-2 wiring, etc.

My question is with the outlets. *I want to A) make sure they're GFI,
B) safe as they need to be, and C) add another. *With the remodel &
current code do I have to change the whole circuit to 20A? *Which
means I'd have to pull all the existing 14/2 cabling and replace with
12/2?

If I do this, then what is the likelihood of me being able to
disconnect the cable at the breaker box, and then pulling the cable up
two floors to the attic through the wall? *Is it likely stapled inside
the wall? *I don't want to damage the 4 or 5 other cables running down
the same hole through top/bottom plates.

Is a better bet for me to just disconnect the 15A circuit breaker &
tie off that cable so it's dead. *Then add a fresh 20A circuit
breaker, and go in the crawl space (very accessible), run the cable
down, then up the HVAC chase to the attic? *I think the run length
would actually be about the same.

If this is a new remodel, and walls are going to be open, you might as
well run new 20A. Don't bother trying to use the old 15A wire as a
drag line, just cap it off in the panel. I believe code now calls for
20A in a bathroom. If you are going to have a fan/light/heat combo
unit, that alone needs its own circuit
It would be different if you had to tear walls open if you have to run
a new line, but since you have access to run cables, might as well do
it.
I would also like to add if you are putting a fan/light combo inside
the shower/tub area, it must be GFI protected. You can just get the
feed off of the GFI outlet to accomplish this.

If this is a new remodel, and walls are going to be open, you might as
well run new 20A. Don't bother trying to use the old 15A wire as a
drag line, just cap it off in the panel. I believe code now calls for
20A in a bathroom. If you are going to have a fan/light/heat combo
unit, that alone needs its own circuit
It would be different if you had to tear walls open if you have to run
a new line, but since you have access to run cables, might as well do
it.
I would also like to add if you are putting a fan/light combo inside
the shower/tub area, it must be GFI protected. You can just get the
feed off of the GFI outlet to accomplish this.

The bathroom walls are definitely out - I stare at insulation and
studs every night when I get home - ugh.

I may be missing something - if I am please forgive me. You said the
fan/light combo must be on a dedicated circuit, but then you said that
I could catch the GFI for the fan/light off the outlet run, implying
that now it's on the same circuit as the outlets.

And just wanted to confirm - I shouldn't mess with trying to fish the
15A cable out and then fish a 20A wire down via the attic? Did you
think that I should run across the crawl space and then up the HVAC
chase two floors?

"CB" wrote in message
...

If this is a new remodel, and walls are going to be open, you might as
well run new 20A. Don't bother trying to use the old 15A wire as a
drag line, just cap it off in the panel. I believe code now calls for
20A in a bathroom. If you are going to have a fan/light/heat combo
unit, that alone needs its own circuit
It would be different if you had to tear walls open if you have to run
a new line, but since you have access to run cables, might as well do
it.
I would also like to add if you are putting a fan/light combo inside
the shower/tub area, it must be GFI protected. You can just get the
feed off of the GFI outlet to accomplish this.

The bathroom walls are definitely out - I stare at insulation and
studs every night when I get home - ugh.

I may be missing something - if I am please forgive me. You said the
fan/light combo must be on a dedicated circuit, but then you said that
I could catch the GFI for the fan/light off the outlet run, implying
that now it's on the same circuit as the outlets.

And just wanted to confirm - I shouldn't mess with trying to fish the
15A cable out and then fish a 20A wire down via the attic? Did you
think that I should run across the crawl space and then up the HVAC
chase two floors?

First of all, it would make little sense to have the existing outlet circuit
daisy chained from one bathroom to another unless it was in fact protected
by a GFCI device upstream of these outlets. This was done commonly in the
80's. If you want to run new circuits to upgrade the bathroom, the easiest
thing to do would be to run one 20 amp circuit and just use it for the
outlets in the renovated bath. You can use the existing lighting circuit for
any new lights and fans, etc. provided you're not adding any electric heat
or Jacuzzi, and things of that nature. You cannot disconnect either of the
existing circuits at the panel, as they are feeding things other that the
renovated bathroom, so you have to locate junction boxes in some accessible
place to splice those circuits through, to wherever they're going.

First of all, it would make little sense to have the existing outlet circuit
daisy chained from one bathroom to another unless it was in fact protected
by a GFCI device upstream of these outlets. This was done commonly in the
80's. If you want to run new circuits to upgrade the bathroom, the easiest
thing to do would be to run one 20 amp circuit and just use it for the
outlets in the renovated bath. You can use the existing lighting circuit for
any new lights and fans, etc. provided you're not adding any electric heat
or Jacuzzi, and things of that nature. You cannot disconnect either of the
existing circuits at the panel, as they are feeding things other that the
renovated bathroom, so you have to locate junction boxes in some accessible
place to splice those circuits through, to wherever they're going.

I currently have one 15A circuit doing the bath outlets (for both
baths) and another 15A circuit doing lights for that bathroom, a
closet, and another bathroom. Tell me if this sounds reasonable:

1) leave the existing 15A circuit that currently powers the existing
lights, etc. and remove bathroom B and closet from that circuit
2) leave the existing 15A circuit that currently powers the outlets,
and in the attic, cut the line to remove the outlets from the circuit
and splice/branch out to do the second bathroom's lights (and maybe a
closet light?)
3) run new 20A circuit to 2 bathroom outlets in bath A, and then over
to 1 bath outlet in bath B, with GFI on the 1st outlet in the run

Does this sound logical?

"CB" wrote in message
...


First of all, it would make little sense to have the existing outlet
circuit
daisy chained from one bathroom to another unless it was in fact
protected
by a GFCI device upstream of these outlets. This was done commonly in the
80's. If you want to run new circuits to upgrade the bathroom, the
easiest
thing to do would be to run one 20 amp circuit and just use it for the
outlets in the renovated bath. You can use the existing lighting circuit
for
any new lights and fans, etc. provided you're not adding any electric
heat
or Jacuzzi, and things of that nature. You cannot disconnect either of
the
existing circuits at the panel, as they are feeding things other that the
renovated bathroom, so you have to locate junction boxes in some
accessible
place to splice those circuits through, to wherever they're going.

I currently have one 15A circuit doing the bath outlets (for both
baths) and another 15A circuit doing lights for that bathroom, a
closet, and another bathroom. Tell me if this sounds reasonable:

1) leave the existing 15A circuit that currently powers the existing
lights, etc. and remove bathroom B and closet from that circuit
2) leave the existing 15A circuit that currently powers the outlets,
and in the attic, cut the line to remove the outlets from the circuit
and splice/branch out to do the second bathroom's lights (and maybe a
closet light?)
3) run new 20A circuit to 2 bathroom outlets in bath A, and then over
to 1 bath outlet in bath B, with GFI on the 1st outlet in the run

Does this sound logical?

Perfectly logical, and NEC legal

I may be missing something - if I am please forgive me. *You said the
fan/light combo must be on a dedicated circuit, but then you said that
I could catch the GFI for the fan/light off the outlet run, implying
that now it's on the same circuit as the outlets.

If you have just a fan/light combo, it does not need its own circuit.
If you have a fan/light/heat combo, then you do. Just the heat part of
it will use at least 10-12 amps.
Whatever you choose, if its going to be inside the shower area it
needs to be GFI protected. If you have the fan/light just grab it off
the GFI outlet. If it has heat also, run a dedicated line and put it
on a GFI breaker.
If its outside the shower, it does not need GFI protection.

And just wanted to confirm - I shouldn't mess with trying to fish the
15A cable out and then fish a 20A wire down via the attic? *Did you
think that I should run across the crawl space and then up the HVAC
chase two floors?
The 15A cable might be stapled, unless you know for sure you can pull
it than go ahead. Otherwisw just run in the crawl space then up the
chase.

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I may be missing something - if I am please forgive me. You said the
fan/light combo must be on a dedicated circuit, but then you said that
I could catch the GFI for the fan/light off the outlet run, implying
that now it's on the same circuit as the outlets.

If you have just a fan/light combo, it does not need its own circuit.
If you have a fan/light/heat combo, then you do. Just the heat part of
it will use at least 10-12 amps.
Whatever you choose, if its going to be inside the shower area it
needs to be GFI protected. If you have the fan/light just grab it off
the GFI outlet. If it has heat also, run a dedicated line and put it
on a GFI breaker.
If its outside the shower, it does not need GFI protection.

And just wanted to confirm - I shouldn't mess with trying to fish the
15A cable out and then fish a 20A wire down via the attic? Did you
think that I should run across the crawl space and then up the HVAC
chase two floors?
The 15A cable might be stapled, unless you know for sure you can pull
it than go ahead. Otherwisw just run in the crawl space then up the
chase.

What you're suggesting regarding the GFCI protection for a fan over a tub or
shower, is only acceptible if he's wiring one bathroom entirely on a 20 amp
circuit. If, as he suggested,he feeds multiple bathroom receptacle outlets
with one 20 amp circuit, no lighting, fans, or anything else, except other
bathroom receptacle outlets can go on that circuit

Keep 'em coming - this good info.......glad to know the A/C chase is
legal....

What you're suggesting regarding the GFCI protection for a fan over a tub or
shower, is only acceptible if he's wiring one bathroom entirely on a 20 amp
circuit. If, as he suggested,he feeds *multiple bathroom receptacle outlets
with one 20 amp circuit, no lighting, fans, or anything else, except other
bathroom receptacle outlets can go on that circuit

Correct. I was assuming he was running 2 seperate feeds for each
bathroom.