The guy who sold us a whole house generator, a man whom I trust, is
now pushing KVAR EC. He purchased two ($650 each) and has saved 3,487
kwH from March-to-March. (He sent photocopies of his electric bills.)
He's offering these units at $450 each, uninstalled.

Is this a good deal, guys? Is it a worthwhile product? Thanks.

Jack W wrote:
The guy who sold us a whole house generator, a man whom I trust, is
now pushing KVAR EC. He purchased two ($650 each) and has saved 3,487
kwH from March-to-March. (He sent photocopies of his electric bills.)
He's offering these units at $450 each, uninstalled.

Is this a good deal, guys? Is it a worthwhile product? Thanks.

Perhaps you could provide a link with information.


KVAR commonly refers to "reactive" power (kilo-volt-amps reactive).
Assuming that is what you are talking about:
Industrial power users often have a KVAR meter (in addition to a
WattHour meter)and pay a penalty for the reactive power they 'use'.
Power factor correction can lower the penalty.

Residential users do not pay a penalty for reactive power. Watt meters
do not measure reactive power. Power factor correction for residential
offers negligible advantage.

--
bud--

bud-- wrote:
Jack W wrote:
The guy who sold us a whole house generator, a man whom I trust, is
now pushing KVAR EC. He purchased two ($650 each) and has saved
3,487 kwH from March-to-March. (He sent photocopies of his electric
bills.) He's offering these units at $450 each, uninstalled.

Is this a good deal, guys? Is it a worthwhile product? Thanks.

Perhaps you could provide a link with information.


KVAR commonly refers to "reactive" power (kilo-volt-amps reactive).
Assuming that is what you are talking about:
Industrial power users often have a KVAR meter (in addition to a
WattHour meter)and pay a penalty for the reactive power they 'use'.
Power factor correction can lower the penalty.

Residential users do not pay a penalty for reactive power. Watt meters
do not measure reactive power. Power factor correction for residential
offers negligible advantage.

Right a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the
meter can't tell the difference. But the load of a large motor - like an AC
compressor - is mostly reactive (the resistance is negligible). If you can
vanish the reactive load, you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Here's their website:
http://www.kvarec.com/com_units.htm

There's even a few on Ebay for about $270
http://search.ebay.com/search/search...r&categ ory0=

Here's a video of the thing in operation
http://cgi.ebay.com/KVAR-Save-up-to-...QQcmdZViewItem

I, for one, would welcome comments from those more knowledgeable than I.

HeyBub wrote:

... a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the
meter can't tell the difference.

Wrong.

... the load of a large motor - like an AC compressor - is mostly reactive
(the resistance is negligible). If you can vanish the reactive load,
you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Wrong.

Nick

wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:

... a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the
meter can't tell the difference.

Wrong.

... the load of a large motor - like an AC compressor - is mostly reactive
(the resistance is negligible). If you can vanish the reactive load,
you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Wrong.

Nick

And thank you for explaining what is correct. Or does your tiny brain just
like to show off your "superior" knowledge of all things?

HeyBub wrote:
bud-- wrote:
Jack W wrote:
The guy who sold us a whole house generator, a man whom I trust, is
now pushing KVAR EC. He purchased two ($650 each) and has saved
3,487 kwH from March-to-March. (He sent photocopies of his electric
bills.) He's offering these units at $450 each, uninstalled.

Is this a good deal, guys? Is it a worthwhile product? Thanks.
Perhaps you could provide a link with information.


KVAR commonly refers to "reactive" power (kilo-volt-amps reactive).
Assuming that is what you are talking about:
Industrial power users often have a KVAR meter (in addition to a
WattHour meter)and pay a penalty for the reactive power they 'use'.
Power factor correction can lower the penalty.

Residential users do not pay a penalty for reactive power. Watt meters
do not measure reactive power. Power factor correction for residential
offers negligible advantage.

Right a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the
meter can't tell the difference.

WH meters measure power to resistive loads.

Reactive power is not ‘consumed’ and is not measured.
With a motor, part of the cycle power flows into the windings to create
a magnetic field, part of the cycle the magnetic field collapses and
power flows back into the power grid. That creates higher current (and
losses) in wires but no mechanical load on a generator (except losses).

But the load of a large motor - like an AC
compressor - is mostly reactive (the resistance is negligible). If you can
vanish the reactive load, you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Nope.
If there was no resistance, the motor would still be supplying
mechanical power to the load which is electrical power that will
register on a WH meter.
At no mechanical load the motor current is largely reactive. When you
connect a load the current goes way up because the motor is supplying
real power.


Here's their website:
http://www.kvarec.com/com_units.htm

Very useful.

The manufacturer sells power factor correction equipment. As stated
above, there is no significant advantage for residential customers. The
losses (slightly higher current times wire resistance) will be slightly
lower. This applies only to the wire from the meter to the point where
the unit is connected - the service panel. Doubly negligible.

The manufacturer says "Utility rate structures that account for reactive
power consumption, by either a KVA or var demand usage, or a power
factor penalty are the ones that can provide this pay-back"
Residential users to not pay VAR penalties.

The manufacturer says "If the KVAR® EC UNIT is placed at the load, the
reactive current only needs to travel through a short distance."
That means putting their unit at all your 'large' motors.

The manufacturer says "However, most homes in America today have less
than a .76 power factor. This means that approximately 76% of the
electricity that is coming through your meter at your home or business
that you are paying for is being used effectively; the other 24% that
you are still paying for is being wasted by the inductive loads."
The "24% that you are still paying for is being wasted" is a *flat out
lie*. The manufacturer is either stupid or dishonest. And I would like
to see a source for 76% power factor.

Bottom line - for residential users this is a *scam*.
For industrial users it may or may not be useful. Given the hype -
probably not.


Note that utilities correct the power factor on their lines. The PF
correction capacitors are in racks on power poles, maybe 9 caps in a
rack. The caps each have 2 insulators on top and are connected between
hot wires.

--
bud--

On May 28, 11:37*am, Windswept@Home (Jack W) wrote:
The guy who sold us a whole house generator, a man whom I trust, is
now pushing KVAR EC. *He purchased two ($650 each) and has saved 3,487
kwH from March-to-March. *(He sent photocopies of his electric bills.)
He's offering these units at $450 each, uninstalled.

Is this a good deal, guys? *Is it a worthwhile product? *Thanks.

HD used to sell something that claimed to save you money by maybe
power factor adjustment, well HD no longer sells it because people
were not saving anything, it was about 100$ not 450, Your trusted guy
should not be so trusted, he just wants to make a buck, does he also
sell those hydrogen generators that run cars on water, or magnets you
clamp on the gas line. Im suprised he hasnt offered you water spray
equipment for your compressor.

wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

... a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the
meter can't tell the difference.

Wrong.

... the load of a large motor - like an AC compressor - is mostly reactive
(the resistance is negligible). If you can vanish the reactive load,
you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Wrong.

Well, armed as I am now with all that knowledge, I can proceed with a good
purchase decision.

--
"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes
- and I see many of them in the audience here today - our sense of patriotism
is particularly strong." -- Barack Obama's seance

"HeyBub" writes:

Right a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the
meter can't tell the difference.

It depends on what you mean by "can't tell the difference". A more
accurate statement is that a load like a motor has both reactive and
resistive components. Only the resistive component can do actual work,
and the standard home power meter only measures the resistive component.
So you pay for the useful work done, whether the load is reactive or not
- more or less.

If a load *also* has a large reactive component, the line current is
higher than it needs to be for just the resistive load. This wastes
some energy as heat, and drops the voltage a bit because of larger
losses in the wires. And it adds a bit of resistive load because of
those losses.

A device that automatically adds capacitance to just cancel the
inductive reactance of a load like a motor can get rid of the reactive
component. This can help improve voltage enough to be worthwhile in
some cases (e.g. an arc welder located at the end of a long run of
cable). It may make a slight difference to operating cost due to
reducing resistive losses in wiring.


But the load of a large motor - like an AC
compressor - is mostly reactive (the resistance is negligible). If you can
vanish the reactive load, you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Utter nonsense. At best, when you get rid of the reactive component,
you are left with a pure resistive load, which is the part that does the
work. You pay for the resistive load - but that's what you pay for when
the load has a large reactive component too. The amount you pay for
isn't going to change much.

Now, large industrial customers pay a penalty for having reactive load,
since it requires larger conductors and larger transformers to supply
them. It costs them real money, while not providing useful work inside
their plant. So they have a real incentive to reduce reactive power.
But houses aren't billed or penalized for it, and it doesn't determine
their service size. Unless they're right on the edge of tripping
breakers all the time, there's not much benefit for most homeowners to
reducing reactive power (the guy with a shop at the end of a long run of
cable being a possible exception).

Dave

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
wrote in message
HeyBub wrote:

... a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the
meter can't tell the difference.

Wrong.

... the load of a large motor - like an AC compressor - is mostly reactive
(the resistance is negligible). If you can vanish the reactive load,
you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Wrong.

And thank you for explaining what is correct...

I am sorry. Spoon feeding is not available at this time.

Nick

Keystone had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...er-309825-.htm
:

The keystone state
-------------------------------------
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
wrote in message
HeyBub wrote:

... a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive
load - the
meter can't tell the difference.

Wrong.

... the load of a large motor - like an AC compressor - is
mostly reactive
(the resistance is negligible). If you can vanish the
reactive load,
you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Wrong.

And thank you for explaining what is correct...

I am sorry. Spoon feeding is not available at this time.

Nick

The electric meter does not register reactive current, only watts. The
KVAR Energy Controller is a capacitor that reduces I squared R line loss.
By improving the power factor of the electric distribution system or an
individual motor, the KVAR unit reduces excessive reactive current that
produces heat, heat is watts, and watts through the meter are reduced. It
is easy to demonstrate how a capacitor can slow down the electric meter
when it is installed on the load side of the electric company's cash
register.






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Keystone wrote:
Keystone had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...er-309825-.htm
:

The keystone state
-------------------------------------
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
wrote in message
HeyBub wrote:

... a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive
load - the
meter can't tell the difference.
Wrong.

... the load of a large motor - like an AC compressor - is
mostly reactive
(the resistance is negligible). If you can vanish the
reactive load,
you get your AC for free. Supposedly.
Wrong.

And thank you for explaining what is correct...

I am sorry. Spoon feeding is not available at this time.

Nick

The electric meter does not register reactive current, only watts. The
KVAR Energy Controller is a capacitor that reduces I squared R line loss.
By improving the power factor of the electric distribution system or an
individual motor, the KVAR unit reduces excessive reactive current that
produces heat, heat is watts, and watts through the meter are reduced. It
is easy to demonstrate how a capacitor can slow down the electric meter
when it is installed on the load side of the electric company's cash
register.

Wow - a 7 month old reply. Do you sell this scam?

The KVAR unit slightly reduces the current, which slightly reduces the I
squared R loss in wire. A negligible difference in a house.

The metered effect is only for the wire between the utility meter and
the KVAR unit (likely installed at the service) - a doubly negligible
difference.

Unless the KVAR unit switches capacitors in and out depending on the
load, it will draw capacitive reactive current when motors are not
running. This increases the current and produces losses just like
reactive current from a motor

This is more completely debunked in the original thread.

Power factor correction for a house is a scam.

--
bud--

TheGriff had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...er-309414-.htm
:
You can spout all the technical you want about how they work or why they
work but the proof is in the savings and in my case that was 50% the first
month and 30% every month after that compared to last years KWH usage.
It paid for itself in less than 3 months.
I may be the exception but I live at the end of the powerline and I have
to guess that is why my savings are so big.


-------------------------------------
HeyBub wrote:

bud-- wrote:
Jack W wrote:
The guy who sold us a whole house generator, a man whom I
trust, is
now pushing KVAR EC. He purchased two ($650 each) and has
saved
3,487 kwH from March-to-March. (He sent photocopies of his
electric
bills.) He's offering these units at $450 each, uninstalled.

Is this a good deal, guys? Is it a worthwhile product?
Thanks.

Perhaps you could provide a link with information.


KVAR commonly refers to "reactive" power (kilo-volt-amps
reactive).
Assuming that is what you are talking about:
Industrial power users often have a KVAR meter (in addition to a
WattHour meter)and pay a penalty for the reactive power they
'use'.
Power factor correction can lower the penalty.

Residential users do not pay a penalty for reactive power. Watt
meters
do not measure reactive power. Power factor correction for
residential
offers negligible advantage.

Right a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the

meter can't tell the difference. But the load of a large motor - like
an AC
compressor - is mostly reactive (the resistance is negligible). If you
can
vanish the reactive load, you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Here's their website:
http://www.kvarec.com/com_units.htm

There's even a few on Ebay for about $270

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...r&categ ory0=

Here's a video of the thing in operation

http://cgi.ebay.com/KVAR-Save-up-to-...QQcmdZViewItem

I, for one, would welcome comments from those more knowledgeable than
I.








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On Feb 7, 7:52*am, (TheGriff)
wrote:
TheGriff had written this in response tohttp://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Re-Your-Opinion-Of-KVAR-E...
*:
You can spout all the technical you want about how they work or why they
work but the proof is in the savings and in my case that was 50% the first
month and 30% every month after that compared to last years KWH usage.
It paid for itself in less than 3 months.
I may be the exception but I live at the end of the powerline and I have
to guess that is why my savings are so big.

-------------------------------------



Hmmm. Does it bother you at all that it was 50% the first month and
then 30% every single month thereafter? What exactly was so special
about month 1? Did part of the device wear out? I also find it
hard to believe that every month is 30% less. Unless you live in a
house with a constant load of lightbulbs or similar, everyone I know
sees considerable variation just from a month in one year to the same
month in other years.

I'd love to see an independent testing authority report on this
gizmo. Seems there should be plenty of those available if it saves
anywhere near what is claimed. It would be a near miracle device in
this day of high energy prices. So, where is the report? Consumer
Reports? A university?










HeyBub wrote:
bud-- wrote:
Jack W wrote:
The guy who sold us a whole house generator, a man whom I
trust, is
now pushing KVAR EC. *He purchased two ($650 each) and has
saved
3,487 kwH from March-to-March. *(He sent photocopies of his
electric
bills.) He's offering these units at $450 each, uninstalled.

Is this a good deal, guys? *Is it a worthwhile product?
Thanks.

Perhaps you could provide a link with information.

KVAR commonly refers to "reactive" power (kilo-volt-amps
reactive).
Assuming that is what you are talking about:
Industrial power users often have a KVAR meter (in addition to a
WattHour meter)and pay a penalty for the reactive power they
'use'.
Power factor correction can lower the penalty.

Residential users do not pay a penalty for reactive power. Watt
meters
do not measure reactive power. Power factor correction for
residential
offers negligible advantage.
Right a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the
meter can't tell the difference. But the load of a large motor - like
an AC
compressor - is mostly reactive (the resistance is negligible). If you
can
vanish the reactive load, you get your AC for free. Supposedly.
Here's their website:
http://www.kvarec.com/com_units.htm
There's even a few on Ebay for about $270

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...id=m37&satitle....

Here's a video of the thing in operation

http://cgi.ebay.com/KVAR-Save-up-to-...-BILL-4-LIFE_W...

I, for one, would welcome comments from those more knowledgeable than
I.

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##-----------------------------------------------##- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In article
,
wrote:

On Feb 7, 7:52*am, lwgriffin at gcgroup (TheGriff)
wrote:
TheGriff had written this in response
tohttp://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Re-Your-Opinion-Of-KVAR-E...
*:
You can spout all the technical you want about how they work or why they
work but the proof is in the savings and in my case that was 50% the first
month and 30% every month after that compared to last years KWH usage.
It paid for itself in less than 3 months.
I may be the exception but I live at the end of the powerline and I have
to guess that is why my savings are so big.

-------------------------------------



Hmmm. Does it bother you at all that it was 50% the first month and
then 30% every single month thereafter? What exactly was so special
about month 1? Did part of the device wear out? I also find it
hard to believe that every month is 30% less. Unless you live in a
house with a constant load of lightbulbs or similar, everyone I know
sees considerable variation just from a month in one year to the same
month in other years.

I'd love to see an independent testing authority report on this
gizmo. Seems there should be plenty of those available if it saves
anywhere near what is claimed. It would be a near miracle device in
this day of high energy prices. So, where is the report? Consumer
Reports? A university?



I bet Mythbusters would take it on, generically. They wouldn't trash a
brand but might be happy to examine power factor correction in general,
in residential applications.

Personally, I believe the theory rather than the anecdotal reports.
Science is your friend.

On Feb 7, 11:21*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,





wrote:
On Feb 7, 7:52*am, lwgriffin at gcgroup (TheGriff)
wrote:
TheGriff had written this in response
tohttp://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Re-Your-Opinion-Of-KVAR-E...
*:
You can spout all the technical you want about how they work or why they
work but the proof is in the savings and in my case that was 50% the first
month and 30% every month after that compared to last years KWH usage..
It paid for itself in less than 3 months.
I may be the exception but I live at the end of the powerline and I have
to guess that is why my savings are so big.

-------------------------------------

Hmmm. * Does it bother you at all that it was 50% the first month and
then 30% every single month thereafter? * What exactly was so special
about month 1? *Did part of the device wear out? * * I also find it
hard to believe that every month is 30% less. * Unless you live in a
house with a constant load of lightbulbs or similar, everyone I know
sees considerable variation just from a month in one year to the same
month in other years.

I'd love to see an independent testing authority report on this
gizmo. * Seems there should be plenty of those available if it saves
anywhere near what is claimed. * It would be a near miracle device in
this day of high energy prices. * So, where is the report? * Consumer
Reports? * A university?

I bet Mythbusters would take it on, generically. They wouldn't trash a
brand but might be happy to examine power factor correction in general,
in residential applications.

That's a good idea. You should go to their website and suggest it.
I like the show and they do a good and fair job. The asian guy from
the show was sitting at the table next to us in Las Vegas at dinner at
Buchon one night.






Personally, I believe the theory rather than the anecdotal reports.
Science is your friend.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In article
,
wrote:

On Feb 7, 11:21*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,





wrote:
On Feb 7, 7:52*am, lwgriffin at gcgroup (TheGriff)
wrote:
TheGriff had written this in response
tohttp://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Re-Your-Opinion-Of-KVAR-E.
..
*:
You can spout all the technical you want about how they work or why
they
work but the proof is in the savings and in my case that was 50% the
first
month and 30% every month after that compared to last years KWH usage.
It paid for itself in less than 3 months.
I may be the exception but I live at the end of the powerline and I
have
to guess that is why my savings are so big.

-------------------------------------

Hmmm. * Does it bother you at all that it was 50% the first month and
then 30% every single month thereafter? * What exactly was so special
about month 1? *Did part of the device wear out? * * I also find it
hard to believe that every month is 30% less. * Unless you live in a
house with a constant load of lightbulbs or similar, everyone I know
sees considerable variation just from a month in one year to the same
month in other years.

I'd love to see an independent testing authority report on this
gizmo. * Seems there should be plenty of those available if it saves
anywhere near what is claimed. * It would be a near miracle device in
this day of high energy prices. * So, where is the report? * Consumer
Reports? * A university?

I bet Mythbusters would take it on, generically. They wouldn't trash a
brand but might be happy to examine power factor correction in general,
in residential applications.

That's a good idea. You should go to their website and suggest it.
I like the show and they do a good and fair job.


Arggh. Too much work. You have to register, and then join the users'
"discussion" boards, which they claim to monitor for interesting topics.

TheGriff wrote:
TheGriff had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...er-309414-.htm
:
You can spout all the technical you want about how they work or why they
work but the proof is in the savings and in my case that was 50% the first
month and 30% every month after that compared to last years KWH usage.
It paid for itself in less than 3 months.
I may be the exception but I live at the end of the powerline and I have
to guess that is why my savings are so big.

It is a miracle. Immediately call the pope to have your house recognized
as a blessed site. You can make big money selling your tap water to the
pigeons.

Anecdotal evidence proves astrology and dowsing work. People who pay
money have a particular incentive to believe.

Find me an electrical engineer that thinks these scams do anything for
residential customers.
Where are the independent tests (by people who understand what is
involved in testing)?
Where are the articles in Readers Digest?

--
bud--



HeyBub wrote:

bud-- wrote:
Jack W wrote:
The guy who sold us a whole house generator, a man whom I
trust, is
now pushing KVAR EC. He purchased two ($650 each) and has
saved
3,487 kwH from March-to-March. (He sent photocopies of his
electric
bills.) He's offering these units at $450 each, uninstalled.

Is this a good deal, guys? Is it a worthwhile product?
Thanks.
Perhaps you could provide a link with information.


KVAR commonly refers to "reactive" power (kilo-volt-amps
reactive).
Assuming that is what you are talking about:
Industrial power users often have a KVAR meter (in addition to a
WattHour meter)and pay a penalty for the reactive power they
'use'.
Power factor correction can lower the penalty.

Residential users do not pay a penalty for reactive power. Watt
meters
do not measure reactive power. Power factor correction for
residential
offers negligible advantage.

Right a Watt-Hour meter treats reactive loads like resistive load - the

meter can't tell the difference. But the load of a large motor - like
an AC
compressor - is mostly reactive (the resistance is negligible). If you
can
vanish the reactive load, you get your AC for free. Supposedly.

Here's their website:
http://www.kvarec.com/com_units.htm

There's even a few on Ebay for about $270

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...r&categ ory0=

Here's a video of the thing in operation

http://cgi.ebay.com/KVAR-Save-up-to-...QQcmdZViewItem

I, for one, would welcome comments from those more knowledgeable than
I.

KVAR works best powering an EdenPure heater.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

wiremeup had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...er-309519-.htm
:
At our local fair, a guy was demonstrating the KVAR energy controllers.
For $625 I could get a unit installed save a lot of money on energy. Of
course I have a 400 amp service so I would need 2 units so it would be
$1250. I have to admit, I was curious so I did some research and
surprisingly, there was not a whole lot of real life data available. So,
I bought 2 of the units off of ebay and hooked them up to my panels. I
put my Fluke meter on my service wires and turned on the breaker. My
running load of 7 amps per phase jumped to 12 amps per phase. I am
rounding off the amperage, but it was a 6 amp per phase INCREASE in load.
That was in September. Since then, I have had two of the highest electric
bills I have ever had. Through the winter, I normally average about $275.
Two months ago was $365, and last month was $435. This evening, I took
the panel covers off, put the meter on and the running load was 7 amps per
phase. I turned OFF the KVAR breaker and my load dropped to 2 amps per
phase. Needless to say, both KVAR units have been removed permanently. I
don't know what the demonstration units that you see on youtube do to drop
the amperage on the 120v motors they use, but it looks like a scam to me.
For one thing, for a motor as small as the one on the display unit, 5 amps
seems like a lot of draw. It is either a incredibly inefficient motor or
there is some other load in there that gets turned off when they switch on
the KVAR.





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open4energy had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...er-359159-.htm
:
Hello readers

A short note to say that almost all power factor correction in a consumer
home is a scam.

And there are many others, this is a complete list

http://open4energy.com/forum/home/sc...y_saving_scams

Scam sites are messing with search results, and you often get their own
results when you search "product name scam"

You are assured an open4energy quality result when you search "open4energy
product name scam" or "open4energy energy saving scams"

open4energy wrote:
open4energy had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...er-359159-.htm
:
Hello readers

A short note to say that almost all power factor correction in a consumer
home is a scam.


Almost all? Which ones aren't scams?

And there are many others, this is a complete list

http://open4energy.com/forum/home/sc...y_saving_scams

Scam sites are messing with search results, and you often get their own
results when you search "product name scam"

You are assured an open4energy quality result when you search "open4energy
product name scam" or "open4energy energy saving scams"


Interesting site with lots of information.

TDD