Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

On Feb 25, 1:32�pm, quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. �Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. �Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. �What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. �Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. �Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. �I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? �And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

you might as well upgrade the main service. it will be a big job.

sounds like a decent idea but how will you cover it up in the living
room?

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!


Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about remodels
with respect to
to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac / plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. In the long run the amount of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about remodels
with respect to
to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac / plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. In the long run the amount of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY, around
$500 or so in materials.

quksilver wrote:

Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!


Condo = Permits and Inspections.

(I know you're not contemplating a DIY remodel.)

The kitchen remodel *plus* the service alteration
could easily trigger a requirement that the rest
of the unit be brought up to current Code levels.
That would be determined by the local Bldg Dep't,
but it's worth investigating.

I could see the panel makeover itself eating up 1 Grand
out of the budget.

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about remodels
with respect to
to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac / plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. In the long run the amount of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY, around
$500 or so in materials.


Thanks, not really planning to do it myself. I did look into it, but
I don't have a lot of the tools and would rather not incur the
liability. I have a couple electricians coming out tomorrow to
provide quotes, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. Looks
like some consensus is developing around $1k. Any thoughts on the
amount of time?

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! (One reason I looked into
DIY...) Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

On Feb 25, 1:37 pm, " wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:32�pm, quksilver wrote:



Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. �Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. �Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. �What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. �Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. �Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. �I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? �And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

you might as well upgrade the main service. it will be a big job.

sounds like a decent idea but how will you cover it up in the living
room?


Not sure what is meant by upgrading the main service? I can hang a
box over it in the living room that looks like "art" and is easily
removed.

Thanks,

On Feb 25, 3:40Â*pm, quksilver wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:37 pm, " wrote:





On Feb 25, 1:32�pm, quksilver wrote:

Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. �Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. �Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. �What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. �Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. �Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. �I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? �And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

you might as well upgrade the main service. it will be a big job.

sounds like a decent idea but how will you cover it up in the living
room?

Not sure what is meant by upgrading the main service? Â*I can hang a
box over it in the living room that looks like "art" and is easily
removed.

Thanks,- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Upgrading the main service" means as that long as they are doing some
major electrical work around the panel, take a look at the rating of
your current service (100A, 150A, 200A, etc) and see if it makes
economic sense to move up a notch or 2, e.g. from 100A to 150A. Look
at the main breaker at the top of the box to see what your current
rating is.

The cost of doing it now, as part of the panel box move, might be
cheaper than calling them back a year from now when all the fancy new
appliances in your kitchen start popping breakers.

quksilver wrote:

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about remodels
with respect to
to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac / plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. In the long run the amount of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY, around
$500 or so in materials.

Thanks, not really planning to do it myself. I did look into it, but
I don't have a lot of the tools and would rather not incur the
liability. I have a couple electricians coming out tomorrow to
provide quotes, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. Looks
like some consensus is developing around $1k. Any thoughts on the
amount of time?

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! (One reason I looked into
DIY...) Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

I'd expect it to take anywhere from about 3 to 6 hours depending on the
details. Items like the amount of slack left in the wires and the
mounting height of the existing panel can make a good deal of
difference. If the wires are short and the panel is already at the max
allowed height it will be time consuming and require some additional
materials. If the wires have some slack and the panel is below max
height so you can mount the new one a bit higher to gain slack if needed
it can be easy. If all the wiring is from the bottom it's even easier
since the code doesn't have a minimum height.

On Feb 25, 4:23�pm, "Pete C." wrote:
quksilver wrote:

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. �Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. �Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. �What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. �Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. �Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. �I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? �And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

� Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about remodels
with respect to
� to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac / plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd �having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. �In the long run the amount of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY, around
$500 or so in materials.

Thanks, not really planning to do it myself. �I did look into it, but
I don't have a lot of the tools and would rather not incur the
liability. �I have a couple electricians coming out tomorrow to
provide quotes, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. �Looks
like some consensus is developing around $1k. �Any thoughts on the
amount of time?

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. �More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! �(One reason I looked into
DIY...) �Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

I'd expect it to take anywhere from about 3 to 6 hours depending on the
details. Items like the amount of slack left in the wires and the
mounting height of the existing panel can make a good deal of
difference. If the wires are short and the panel is already at the max
allowed height it will be time consuming and require some additional
materials. If the wires have some slack and the panel is below max
height so you can mount the new one a bit higher to gain slack if needed
it can be easy. If all the wiring is from the bottom it's even easier
since the code doesn't have a minimum height.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

might as well go to 200 amp......... it costs little more. plus will
leave space for the new kitchen circuits/

one for fridge, minimum of 2 and preferably 3 20 amp GFCI general
appliance circuits, one for disposal, one for dishwasher, plus
electric stove if you have one.. plus take a look at all plumbing so
you dont have to do it again anytime soon

if your redoing the kitchhen and it has outside walls your better off
gutting and installing foam insulation. since you will have lots of
holes in walls for electric upgrade anyway

" wrote:

On Feb 25, 4:23�pm, "Pete C." wrote:
quksilver wrote:

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. �Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. �Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. �What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. �Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. �Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. �I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? �And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

� Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about remodels
with respect to
� to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac / plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd �having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. �In the long run the amount of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY, around
$500 or so in materials.

Thanks, not really planning to do it myself. �I did look into it, but
I don't have a lot of the tools and would rather not incur the
liability. �I have a couple electricians coming out tomorrow to
provide quotes, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. �Looks
like some consensus is developing around $1k. �Any thoughts on the
amount of time?

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. �More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! �(One reason I looked into
DIY...) �Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

I'd expect it to take anywhere from about 3 to 6 hours depending on the
details. Items like the amount of slack left in the wires and the
mounting height of the existing panel can make a good deal of
difference. If the wires are short and the panel is already at the max
allowed height it will be time consuming and require some additional
materials. If the wires have some slack and the panel is below max
height so you can mount the new one a bit higher to gain slack if needed
it can be easy. If all the wiring is from the bottom it's even easier
since the code doesn't have a minimum height.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

might as well go to 200 amp......... it costs little more. plus will
leave space for the new kitchen circuits/

200A service for a DC Condo? Unless it's a truly huge condo I think
you'd be hard pressed to max a 100A service.


one for fridge, minimum of 2 and preferably 3 20 amp GFCI general
appliance circuits, one for disposal, one for dishwasher, plus
electric stove if you have one.. plus take a look at all plumbing so
you dont have to do it again anytime soon

Ideally a minimum of two circuits accessible on any decent sized span of
counter space, so you have flexibly to run a couple power hungry
appliances at the same time, like a toaster and coffee pot.


if your redoing the kitchhen and it has outside walls your better off
gutting and installing foam insulation. since you will have lots of
holes in walls for electric upgrade anyway

Kitchen remodels are always more fun if you gut to wall studs and floor
and ceiling joists and start fresh. Not always the most practical or
cost effective though.

On Feb 25, 4:39 pm, " wrote:
On Feb 25, 4:23�pm, "Pete C." wrote:



quksilver wrote:

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. �Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. �Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. �What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. �Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. �Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. �I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? �And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

� Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about remodels
with respect to
� to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac / plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd �having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. �In the long run the amount of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY, around
$500 or so in materials.

Thanks, not really planning to do it myself. �I did look into it, but
I don't have a lot of the tools and would rather not incur the
liability. �I have a couple electricians coming out tomorrow to
provide quotes, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. �Looks
like some consensus is developing around $1k. �Any thoughts on the
amount of time?

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. �More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! �(One reason I looked into
DIY...) �Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

I'd expect it to take anywhere from about 3 to 6 hours depending on the
details. Items like the amount of slack left in the wires and the
mounting height of the existing panel can make a good deal of
difference. If the wires are short and the panel is already at the max
allowed height it will be time consuming and require some additional
materials. If the wires have some slack and the panel is below max
height so you can mount the new one a bit higher to gain slack if needed
it can be easy. If all the wiring is from the bottom it's even easier
since the code doesn't have a minimum height.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

might as well go to 200 amp......... it costs little more. plus will
leave space for the new kitchen circuits/

one for fridge, minimum of 2 and preferably 3 20 amp GFCI general
appliance circuits, one for disposal, one for dishwasher, plus
electric stove if you have one.. plus take a look at all plumbing so
you dont have to do it again anytime soon

if your redoing the kitchhen and it has outside walls your better off
gutting and installing foam insulation. since you will have lots of
holes in walls for electric upgrade anyway

Thanks all for the advice. Upgrading the main service seems like a
good idea since there is no extra room in the current panel and I will
be adding a separate range hood and better lighting, and I know there
are problems with the current wiring/circuits (can't run a hairdryer
and iron at the same time, a/c kicking on causes lights to dim,
etc).

The kitchen has two walls that are internal to the building, but
external to my unit. One backs up to a shared common hallway, the
other backs up to another unit. Don't think additional foam
insulation will be necessary, but I'll keep it in mind for when I get
to the point when I can afford the rest of the remodel.

What are you recommending specifically about the plumbing?

Cheers,

"quksilver" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 1:37 pm, " wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:32?pm, quksilver wrote:



Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. ?Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. ?Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. ?What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. ?Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. ?Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. ?I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? ?And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

you might as well upgrade the main service. it will be a big job.

sounds like a decent idea but how will you cover it up in the living
room?


Not sure what is meant by upgrading the main service? I can hang a
box over it in the living room that looks like "art" and is easily
removed.

Thanks,

Having professional electricians come in to give you advice and prices is
the most sensible thing to do. It makes absolutely no sense to even talk
about service upgrades until you determine what size the current service is,
and if the few new loads you plan on will make the slightest bit of
difference. If you are just looking to flip the panel position and use a
slightly larger panel, expect to cut the sheetrock beam to beam from about a
foot above and below the existing panel on the kitchen side. Since the new
panel will be larger, there is no concern about the conductors not being
long enough. I can't imagine this taking more than 3 or 4 hours plus
materials and filing fees

"quksilver" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 4:39 pm, " wrote:
On Feb 25, 4:23?pm, "Pete C." wrote:



quksilver wrote:

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice
with
regards to the electrical panel. ?Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. ?Seems silly to me,
as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. ?What I would
like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in
the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of
the
wall, which faces the living room. ?Also not ideal, personally,
but
better than the current setup. ?Turning the panel this way will
allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. ?I'm wondering if
anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult
a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a
really
rough sense), etc? ?And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

? Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about
remodels
with respect to
? to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac /
plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd
?having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the
hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. ?In the long run the amount
of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the
wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to
cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY,
around
$500 or so in materials.

Thanks, not really planning to do it myself. ?I did look into it, but
I don't have a lot of the tools and would rather not incur the
liability. ?I have a couple electricians coming out tomorrow to
provide quotes, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. ?Looks
like some consensus is developing around $1k. ?Any thoughts on the
amount of time?

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. ?More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! ?(One reason I looked into
DIY...) ?Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

I'd expect it to take anywhere from about 3 to 6 hours depending on the
details. Items like the amount of slack left in the wires and the
mounting height of the existing panel can make a good deal of
difference. If the wires are short and the panel is already at the max
allowed height it will be time consuming and require some additional
materials. If the wires have some slack and the panel is below max
height so you can mount the new one a bit higher to gain slack if needed
it can be easy. If all the wiring is from the bottom it's even easier
since the code doesn't have a minimum height.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

might as well go to 200 amp......... it costs little more. plus will
leave space for the new kitchen circuits/

one for fridge, minimum of 2 and preferably 3 20 amp GFCI general
appliance circuits, one for disposal, one for dishwasher, plus
electric stove if you have one.. plus take a look at all plumbing so
you dont have to do it again anytime soon

if your redoing the kitchhen and it has outside walls your better off
gutting and installing foam insulation. since you will have lots of
holes in walls for electric upgrade anyway

Thanks all for the advice. Upgrading the main service seems like a
good idea since there is no extra room in the current panel and I will
be adding a separate range hood and better lighting, and I know there
are problems with the current wiring/circuits (can't run a hairdryer
and iron at the same time, a/c kicking on causes lights to dim,
etc).

The things you describe above are more a matter of distribution than service
size. If you had a 1000 amp service, you still wouldn't be able to run your
hair dryer and iron at the same time. You need to run new circuits and
outlets for these high amperage appliances, which doesn't necessarily mean
that there isn't enough amperage feeding the panel






The kitchen has two walls that are internal to the building, but
external to my unit. One backs up to a shared common hallway, the
other backs up to another unit. Don't think additional foam
insulation will be necessary, but I'll keep it in mind for when I get
to the point when I can afford the rest of the remodel.

What are you recommending specifically about the plumbing?

Cheers,

On Feb 25, 6:59*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"quksilver" wrote in message

...
On Feb 25, 4:39 pm, " wrote:





On Feb 25, 4:23?pm, "Pete C." wrote:

quksilver wrote:

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice
with
regards to the electrical panel. ?Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. ?Seems silly to me,
as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. ?What I would
like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in
the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of
the
wall, which faces the living room. ?Also not ideal, personally,
but
better than the current setup. ?Turning the panel this way will
allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. ?I'm wondering if
anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult
a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a
really
rough sense), etc? ?And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

? Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about
remodels
with respect to
? to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac /
plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd
?having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on the
hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. ?In the long run the amount
of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the
wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to
cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY,
around
$500 or so in materials.

Thanks, not really planning to do it myself. ?I did look into it, but
I don't have a lot of the tools and would rather not incur the
liability. ?I have a couple electricians coming out tomorrow to
provide quotes, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. ?Looks
like some consensus is developing around $1k. ?Any thoughts on the
amount of time?

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. ?More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! ?(One reason I looked into
DIY...) ?Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

I'd expect it to take anywhere from about 3 to 6 hours depending on the
details. Items like the amount of slack left in the wires and the
mounting height of the existing panel can make a good deal of
difference. If the wires are short and the panel is already at the max
allowed height it will be time consuming and require some additional
materials. If the wires have some slack and the panel is below max
height so you can mount the new one a bit higher to gain slack if needed
it can be easy. If all the wiring is from the bottom it's even easier
since the code doesn't have a minimum height.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

might as well go to 200 amp......... it costs little more. plus will
leave space for the new kitchen circuits/

one for fridge, minimum of 2 and preferably 3 20 amp GFCI general
appliance circuits, one for disposal, one for dishwasher, plus
electric stove if you have one.. plus take a look at all plumbing so
you dont have to do it again anytime soon

if your redoing the kitchhen and it has outside walls your better off
gutting and installing foam insulation. since you will have lots of
holes in walls for electric upgrade anyway

Thanks all for the advice. *Upgrading the main service seems like a
good idea since there is no extra room in the current panel and I will
be adding a separate range hood and better lighting, and I know there
are problems with the current wiring/circuits (can't run a hairdryer
and iron at the same time, a/c kicking on causes lights to dim,
etc).

The things you describe above are more a matter of distribution than service
size. If you had a 1000 amp service, you still wouldn't be able to run your
hair dryer and iron at the same time. You need to run new circuits and
outlets for these high amperage appliances, which doesn't necessarily mean
that there isn't enough amperage feeding the panel

The kitchen has two walls that are internal to the building, but
external to my unit. *One backs up to a shared common hallway, the
other backs up to another unit. *Don't think additional foam
insulation will be necessary, but I'll keep it in mind for when I get
to the point when I can afford the rest of the remodel.

What are you recommending specifically about the plumbing?

Cheers,- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You need to run new circuits and outlets for these high amperage
appliances

True, unless the current wiring uses "almost home runs". When I moved
into my house, I had something like 4 fuses. When I replaced the panel
I ended with 9 breakers just from splitting circuits that had been
doubled up on fuses and/or run back to junction boxes right next to
panel and then attached to a single fuse.

Over the years, I've found junction boxes further downstream that
allowed me to split the circuits even more with a single run back to
the panel. Things like splitting the garage off of the first floor
were fairly simple tasks.

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Sounds doable. Wall space is much cheaper in a living room than in a
kitchen. You have more of it and, therefore, greater options.

Just guessing, it should take two people about four hours to perform the
change out. You can minimize the effort by doing as much prep work as
possible - for example, cutting the hole in the living room, etc.

As to cost, I'd guess between $800 and $1,400 depending on the area of the
country, permits, inspections, etc. If you do it yourself, figure $350.

If you can live with the same panel, and you do the work yourself, your
out-of-pocket should be close to zero. Remember, you can add breakers to the
panel. Even if it's full, they now have half-size breakers so you can
essentially double the number without the necessity of a new box.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 6:59 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"quksilver" wrote in message

...
On Feb 25, 4:39 pm, " wrote:





On Feb 25, 4:23?pm, "Pete C." wrote:

quksilver wrote:

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice
with
regards to the electrical panel. ?Currently, it is located on
an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. ?Seems silly to
me,
as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. ?What I
would
like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in
the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of
the
wall, which faces the living room. ?Also not ideal,
personally,
but
better than the current setup. ?Turning the panel this way
will
allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such
as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. ?I'm wondering if
anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how
difficult
a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a
really
rough sense), etc? ?And if anyone has any other advice about
the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

? Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about
remodels
with respect to
? to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac
/
plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd
?having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on
the
hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. ?In the long run the amount
of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

As to the issue of facing the new panel to the other side of the
wall,
that would have just about no effect on the cost. Installing a new
larger panel in that location in the wall is the same amount of
work
regardless of which side it faces.

Were the OP to hire an electrician to do the job, I'd expect it to
cost
$1k-$1.5k depending on the typical rates in the area, for DIY,
around
$500 or so in materials.

Thanks, not really planning to do it myself. ?I did look into it,
but
I don't have a lot of the tools and would rather not incur the
liability. ?I have a couple electricians coming out tomorrow to
provide quotes, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect.
?Looks
like some consensus is developing around $1k. ?Any thoughts on the
amount of time?

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. ?More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! ?(One reason I looked into
DIY...) ?Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right
now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

I'd expect it to take anywhere from about 3 to 6 hours depending on
the
details. Items like the amount of slack left in the wires and the
mounting height of the existing panel can make a good deal of
difference. If the wires are short and the panel is already at the max
allowed height it will be time consuming and require some additional
materials. If the wires have some slack and the panel is below max
height so you can mount the new one a bit higher to gain slack if
needed
it can be easy. If all the wiring is from the bottom it's even easier
since the code doesn't have a minimum height.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

might as well go to 200 amp......... it costs little more. plus will
leave space for the new kitchen circuits/

one for fridge, minimum of 2 and preferably 3 20 amp GFCI general
appliance circuits, one for disposal, one for dishwasher, plus
electric stove if you have one.. plus take a look at all plumbing so
you dont have to do it again anytime soon

if your redoing the kitchhen and it has outside walls your better off
gutting and installing foam insulation. since you will have lots of
holes in walls for electric upgrade anyway

Thanks all for the advice. Upgrading the main service seems like a
good idea since there is no extra room in the current panel and I will
be adding a separate range hood and better lighting, and I know there
are problems with the current wiring/circuits (can't run a hairdryer
and iron at the same time, a/c kicking on causes lights to dim,
etc).

The things you describe above are more a matter of distribution than
service
size. If you had a 1000 amp service, you still wouldn't be able to run
your
hair dryer and iron at the same time. You need to run new circuits and
outlets for these high amperage appliances, which doesn't necessarily mean
that there isn't enough amperage feeding the panel

The kitchen has two walls that are internal to the building, but
external to my unit. One backs up to a shared common hallway, the
other backs up to another unit. Don't think additional foam
insulation will be necessary, but I'll keep it in mind for when I get
to the point when I can afford the rest of the remodel.

What are you recommending specifically about the plumbing?

Cheers,- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You need to run new circuits and outlets for these high amperage
appliances

True, unless the current wiring uses "almost home runs". When I moved
into my house, I had something like 4 fuses. When I replaced the panel
I ended with 9 breakers just from splitting circuits that had been
doubled up on fuses and/or run back to junction boxes right next to
panel and then attached to a single fuse.

Over the years, I've found junction boxes further downstream that
allowed me to split the circuits even more with a single run back to
the panel. Things like splitting the garage off of the first floor
were fairly simple tasks.

That's exactly my point. Often people think that by increasing their service
size, more electricity flows through all the wiring, increasing the capacity
of every outlet and circuit. They wind up spending a pile of money for a
service increase, and find nothing has improved. With proper distribution,
even a small service goes a long way

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Sounds doable. Wall space is much cheaper in a living room than in a
kitchen. You have more of it and, therefore, greater options.

Just guessing, it should take two people about four hours to perform the
change out. You can minimize the effort by doing as much prep work as
possible - for example, cutting the hole in the living room, etc.

As to cost, I'd guess between $800 and $1,400 depending on the area of the
country, permits, inspections, etc. If you do it yourself, figure $350.

If you can live with the same panel, and you do the work yourself, your
out-of-pocket should be close to zero. Remember, you can add breakers to
the panel. Even if it's full, they now have half-size breakers so you can
essentially double the number without the necessity of a new box.

Panels are designed to hold a definate number of full size, half size, and
combination of both types of breakers. Some panels won't accept any half
sized breakers

On Feb 25, 8:27�pm, "RBM" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Feb 25, 6:59 pm, "RBM" wrote:





"quksilver" wrote in message

...
On Feb 25, 4:39 pm, " wrote:

On Feb 25, 4:23?pm, "Pete C." wrote:

quksilver wrote:

On Feb 25, 2:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice
with
regards to the electrical panel. ?Currently, it is located on
an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. ?Seems silly to
me,
as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. ?What I
would
like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in
the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of
the
wall, which faces the living room. ?Also not ideal,
personally,
but
better than the current setup. ?Turning the panel this way
will
allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such
as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. ?I'm wondering if
anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how
difficult
a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a
really
rough sense), etc? ?And if anyone has any other advice about
the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

? Hmmm.

What, if anything, do your codo rules / regulations say about
remodels
with respect to
? to using icensed contrators for things like electrical / hvac
/
plumbing??

Maybe I'm just a little bit conservative i this regard, but I'd
?having
a licensed
electrician doing the electrical, and let his insurance be on
the
hook
if anything
went wrong in a multi unit building. ?In the long run the amount
of
money you
save yoursely on a DIY electric job could be very expensive.

YMMV.

I don't see anywhere that the OP has said they intended to DIY it.

RBM wrote:

If you can live with the same panel, and you do the work yourself,
your out-of-pocket should be close to zero. Remember, you can add
breakers to the panel. Even if it's full, they now have half-size
breakers so you can essentially double the number without the
necessity of a new box.

Panels are designed to hold a definate number of full size, half
size, and combination of both types of breakers. Some panels won't
accept any half sized breakers

Nah. Little extra wire, some wire nuts, Gorilla Glue. Piece of cake.

On Feb 25, 10:15*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
RBM wrote:

If you can live with the same panel, and you do the work yourself,
your out-of-pocket should be close to zero. Remember, you can add
breakers to the panel. Even if it's full, they now have half-size
breakers so you can essentially double the number without the
necessity of a new box.

Panels are designed to hold a definate number of full size, half
size, and combination of both types of breakers. Some panels won't
accept any half sized breakers

Nah. Little extra wire, some wire nuts, Gorilla Glue. Piece of cake.

Gorilla Glue. Piece of cake

I tried Gorilla Glue on a piece of cake. I don't recommend it.

On Feb 26, 2:56 am, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:40:42 -0800 (PST), quksilver



wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:37 pm, " wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:32?pm, quksilver wrote:

Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. ?Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. ?Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. ?What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. ?Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. ?Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. ?I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? ?And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

you might as well upgrade the main service. it will be a big job.

sounds like a decent idea but how will you cover it up in the living
room?

Not sure what is meant by upgrading the main service? I can hang a
box over it in the living room that looks like "art" and is easily
removed.

Thanks,

Unless you're wallet is thick and filled with many large bills, why
not just hang a picture over it in the kitchen. Assuming your wiring
is in good condition, why mess with it. That's about 2 square feet of
wall space. Is it really that important? You'll likely hang a
picture somewhere in there anyhow. Rather than spend a fortune on the
wiring, get a $20 art reprint and a picture hook, and be done with it.

Well, the kitchen is very small, only 8'x10', and the electrical panel
is on a wall that's 3 feet long and 8 feet high. That's a lot of
wasted space in such a small kitchen. Plus, turning the electrical
panel in this manner allows me to relocate the fridge to that wall and
extend countertops over the area where the fridge is now. Currently,
all cabinets and appliances are along 1 short wall and 1 long wall in
the kitchen. When you consider the sink (24"), the range (30"), the
fridge (33"), and the pantry (24"), there is pretty much zero useable
counterop space available for prep work, so I view this change as
absolutely essential in order to create a functional working space.
The pantry will also be replaced with countertops, and a 12" floor-to-
ceiling pullout pantry will go next to the fridge.

Cheers,

On Feb 25, 8:34 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

...



quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Sounds doable. Wall space is much cheaper in a living room than in a
kitchen. You have more of it and, therefore, greater options.

Just guessing, it should take two people about four hours to perform the
change out. You can minimize the effort by doing as much prep work as
possible - for example, cutting the hole in the living room, etc.

As to cost, I'd guess between $800 and $1,400 depending on the area of the
country, permits, inspections, etc. If you do it yourself, figure $350.

If you can live with the same panel, and you do the work yourself, your
out-of-pocket should be close to zero. Remember, you can add breakers to
the panel. Even if it's full, they now have half-size breakers so you can
essentially double the number without the necessity of a new box.

Panels are designed to hold a definate number of full size, half size, and
combination of both types of breakers. Some panels won't accept any half
sized breakers




Wow! I love this group! Thanks everyone for all the great
suggestions. I feel like I understand the options much better and
will be able to have a much more intelligent conversation with the
electricians. I'll update with what they say and seek request
additional input if it seems questionable.

Cheers,

On Feb 26, 9:23�am, quksilver wrote:
On Feb 25, 8:34 pm, "RBM" wrote:





"HeyBub" wrote in message

...

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. �Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. �Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. �What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. �Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. �Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. �I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? �And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Sounds doable. Wall space is much cheaper in a living room than in a
kitchen. You have more of it and, therefore, greater options.

Just guessing, it should take two people about four hours to perform the
change out. You can minimize the effort by doing as much prep work as
possible - for example, cutting the hole in the living room, etc.

As to cost, I'd guess between $800 and $1,400 depending on the area of the
country, permits, inspections, etc. If you do it yourself, figure $350..

If you can live with the same panel, and you do the work yourself, your
out-of-pocket should be close to zero. Remember, you can add breakers to
the panel. Even if it's full, they now have half-size breakers so you can
essentially double the number without the necessity of a new box.

Panels are designed to hold a definate number of full size, half size, and
combination of both types of breakers. Some panels won't accept any half
sized breakers

Wow! �I love this group! �Thanks everyone for all the great
suggestions. �I feel like I understand the options much better and
will be able to have a much more intelligent conversation with the
electricians. �I'll update with what they say and seek request
additional input if it seems questionable.

Cheers,- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

when re doing kiltchens, the fridge stove and sink should be on a 3
point configuration for most efficent function.

like a V shape with things at each point

I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! (One reason I looked into
DIY...) Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!


Just to keep the peace.....have you approached your condo board about
the work you are doing?
As others have mentioned, doing electrical work yourself in a condo is a
no-no. It is violation of
building code where I live. In addition, any structural, elect., gas or
plumbing in multi-family res.
requires a permit. Having seen some of the worst in condo board
behavior, I would put the plan
in writing and get any required approval from them in advance. If your
condo documents require
approval, then you don't have a leg to stand on if they take issue with
work done without their
approval........you don't want to get the work done and have them
require you to "undo" it.

My hubby - a condo board member - tried to get our condo board to repair
wiring damaged
in work done in the unit above ours. The "doer" was not the owner, and,
AFAIK, not a contractor.
I complained to the city when the electricity went out for the third and
final time.....bldg. code
requires permit for structural work, which was being done (removal of
walls). The city guy said
the doer told him no structural work was being done, which was not
true. Our condo documents
specifically address the situation, requiring the condo assn. to make
repair and the person doing
the damage to be responsible to the assn. My hubby got TWO letters from
assn., basicly telling
him to stuff it. One letter told him to "cease and desist" in
contacting the condo pres.! After
going back and forth for a week without electricity to part of our unit,
the guy doing the work
hired another electrician to make repair. He was nice about it, but
dumb as a doorknob. Our
condo assn. has lots of ways of playing hardball, and the folks who "do
it right" are the minority.

Lots of condo boards ignore their rules and bylaws until the issue gets
personal, so I would
be careful.

On Feb 26, 10:03 am, Norminn wrote:
I'm in the DC area and labor is unbelievably expensive. More than
half the cost of the kitchen remodel! (One reason I looked into
DIY...) Anyway, don't have the cash for the entire remodel right now,
so I'm looking into preparatory options first, like upgrading the
electrical panel.

Thanks!

Just to keep the peace.....have you approached your condo board about
the work you are doing?
As others have mentioned, doing electrical work yourself in a condo is a
no-no. It is violation of
building code where I live. In addition, any structural, elect., gas or
plumbing in multi-family res.
requires a permit. Having seen some of the worst in condo board
behavior, I would put the plan
in writing and get any required approval from them in advance. If your
condo documents require
approval, then you don't have a leg to stand on if they take issue with
work done without their
approval........you don't want to get the work done and have them
require you to "undo" it.

My hubby - a condo board member - tried to get our condo board to repair
wiring damaged
in work done in the unit above ours. The "doer" was not the owner, and,
AFAIK, not a contractor.
I complained to the city when the electricity went out for the third and
final time.....bldg. code
requires permit for structural work, which was being done (removal of
walls). The city guy said
the doer told him no structural work was being done, which was not
true. Our condo documents
specifically address the situation, requiring the condo assn. to make
repair and the person doing
the damage to be responsible to the assn. My hubby got TWO letters from
assn., basicly telling
him to stuff it. One letter told him to "cease and desist" in
contacting the condo pres.! After
going back and forth for a week without electricity to part of our unit,
the guy doing the work
hired another electrician to make repair. He was nice about it, but
dumb as a doorknob. Our
condo assn. has lots of ways of playing hardball, and the folks who "do
it right" are the minority.

Lots of condo boards ignore their rules and bylaws until the issue gets
personal, so I would
be careful.


I do have to clear the work through the condo board first. I also
know one of the members of the board who had is electrical panel
turned around as part of a kitchen remodel. So I'm hoping that will
pave the way for me to do it...

Thanks,

quksilver wrote:

On Feb 26, 2:56 am, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:40:42 -0800 (PST), quksilver



wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:37 pm, " wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:32?pm, quksilver wrote:

Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. ?Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. ?Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. ?What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. ?Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. ?Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. ?I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? ?And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

you might as well upgrade the main service. it will be a big job.

sounds like a decent idea but how will you cover it up in the living
room?

Not sure what is meant by upgrading the main service? I can hang a
box over it in the living room that looks like "art" and is easily
removed.

Thanks,

Unless you're wallet is thick and filled with many large bills, why
not just hang a picture over it in the kitchen. Assuming your wiring
is in good condition, why mess with it. That's about 2 square feet of
wall space. Is it really that important? You'll likely hang a
picture somewhere in there anyhow. Rather than spend a fortune on the
wiring, get a $20 art reprint and a picture hook, and be done with it.

Well, the kitchen is very small, only 8'x10', and the electrical panel
is on a wall that's 3 feet long and 8 feet high. That's a lot of
wasted space in such a small kitchen. Plus, turning the electrical
panel in this manner allows me to relocate the fridge to that wall and
extend countertops over the area where the fridge is now. Currently,
all cabinets and appliances are along 1 short wall and 1 long wall in
the kitchen. When you consider the sink (24"), the range (30"), the
fridge (33"), and the pantry (24"), there is pretty much zero useable
counterop space available for prep work, so I view this change as
absolutely essential in order to create a functional working space.
The pantry will also be replaced with countertops, and a 12" floor-to-
ceiling pullout pantry will go next to the fridge.

Cheers,

Sounds like a tight space. Getting the electrical panel and it's access
issues out of the space will certainly help open more options.

One thing that might be useful would be covers for the range and / or
sink. Common items in RV to turn those areas into useable counter space
for prep work.

" wrote:

On Feb 26, 9:23�am, quksilver wrote:
On Feb 25, 8:34 pm, "RBM" wrote:





"HeyBub" wrote in message

...

quksilver wrote:
Hello,
I am remodeling the kitchen in my condo and need some advice with
regards to the electrical panel. �Currently, it is located on an
interior wall with access from the kitchen. �Seems silly to me, as it
makes it difficult to use that wall for anything. �What I would like
to do is remove the current panel and install a larger one in the same
location, but such that it is accessed from the other side of the
wall, which faces the living room. �Also not ideal, personally, but
better than the current setup. �Turning the panel this way will allow
much greater design flexibility for the kitchen remodel, such as
relocating appliances, adding storage, etc. �I'm wondering if anyone
might be able to answer some basic questions, like how difficult a job
is this, how long it should take, how much might it cost (in a really
rough sense), etc? �And if anyone has any other advice about the
project, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Sounds doable. Wall space is much cheaper in a living room than in a
kitchen. You have more of it and, therefore, greater options.

Just guessing, it should take two people about four hours to perform the
change out. You can minimize the effort by doing as much prep work as
possible - for example, cutting the hole in the living room, etc.

As to cost, I'd guess between $800 and $1,400 depending on the area of the
country, permits, inspections, etc. If you do it yourself, figure $350.

If you can live with the same panel, and you do the work yourself, your
out-of-pocket should be close to zero. Remember, you can add breakers to
the panel. Even if it's full, they now have half-size breakers so you can
essentially double the number without the necessity of a new box.

Panels are designed to hold a definate number of full size, half size, and
combination of both types of breakers. Some panels won't accept any half
sized breakers

Wow! �I love this group! �Thanks everyone for all the great
suggestions. �I feel like I understand the options much better and
will be able to have a much more intelligent conversation with the
electricians. �I'll update with what they say and seek request
additional input if it seems questionable.

Cheers,- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

when re doing kiltchens, the fridge stove and sink should be on a 3
point configuration for most efficent function.

like a V shape with things at each point

There are a lot of good references to kitchen design, many of which are
likely available at a local library. I also recommend using decent
design software (Floorplan3D 3D is good, also cheap) to try different
layouts and view photorealistic renders of each.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:55:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 25, 10:15*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Nah. Little extra wire, some wire nuts, Gorilla Glue. Piece of cake.

Gorilla Glue. Piece of cake

I tried Gorilla Glue on a piece of cake. I don't recommend it.

It's much better fresh, before it sets up. Like syrup.

sdb

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