We have a hot water baseboard heater with 5 zones from 1994ish that
recently started acting weird.

About 3 months ago, I noticed that the expansion tank was leaking at
the seam...so I replaced it with new. For about 3 weeks, the system
was very loud, even after purging as much air as I possibly could out
of it. Eventually, all the air purged through the auto fill valve and
the noise is gone.

Recently, the master bedroom zone temperature wasn't varying at all as
it should with our programable thermostats. At night, the temperature
is about 70 at 10pm, and rises to between 72 and 77 by 6am...then
drops back to 70 during the day. We have it set to 58 during the day,
68 between 6 and 10, and 65 overnight. So I turned the thermostat
off, but the same behavior exists. The baseboard is always warm to
the touch.

The other zones were fine, until a few weeks ago. The dining room
zone will not move off of 70, even though we have a similar heating
patern programmed into the thermostat. I turned off the thermostat
and the temperature dropped like you'd expect it to. Turn it back on
and we're right back to 70 again.

Anyone have any ideas as to what might be happening? Our heating
bills are nearly $400 a month now and I assume that the heating issue
has something to do with it.

Thanks.

Max wrote:
We have a hot water baseboard heater with 5 zones from 1994ish that
recently started acting weird.

About 3 months ago, I noticed that the expansion tank was leaking at
the seam...so I replaced it with new. For about 3 weeks, the system
was very loud, even after purging as much air as I possibly could out
of it. Eventually, all the air purged through the auto fill valve and
the noise is gone.

Recently, the master bedroom zone temperature wasn't varying at all as
it should with our programable thermostats. At night, the temperature
is about 70 at 10pm, and rises to between 72 and 77 by 6am...then
drops back to 70 during the day. We have it set to 58 during the day,
68 between 6 and 10, and 65 overnight. So I turned the thermostat
off, but the same behavior exists. The baseboard is always warm to
the touch.

The other zones were fine, until a few weeks ago. The dining room
zone will not move off of 70, even though we have a similar heating
patern programmed into the thermostat. I turned off the thermostat
and the temperature dropped like you'd expect it to. Turn it back on
and we're right back to 70 again.

Anyone have any ideas as to what might be happening? Our heating
bills are nearly $400 a month now and I assume that the heating issue
has something to do with it.

Thanks.




Put a good pressure gauge on the boiler.
Did the existing gauge drop to zero when you
removed the exp tank? It should have.
Does it now register the correct elevation/psi
for your system's height?

What I'm wondering is whether system pressure
is waaaay above normal.

Is the water temp excesssively high? 140F should
be enough. Very high temps might make the system
circulate by gravity.

Just stabbing in the dark...

Jim

Sounds like you may have a bad flow control valve.....


"Max" wrote in message
...
We have a hot water baseboard heater with 5 zones from 1994ish that
recently started acting weird.

About 3 months ago, I noticed that the expansion tank was leaking at
the seam...so I replaced it with new. For about 3 weeks, the system
was very loud, even after purging as much air as I possibly could out
of it. Eventually, all the air purged through the auto fill valve and
the noise is gone.

Recently, the master bedroom zone temperature wasn't varying at all as
it should with our programable thermostats. At night, the temperature
is about 70 at 10pm, and rises to between 72 and 77 by 6am...then
drops back to 70 during the day. We have it set to 58 during the day,
68 between 6 and 10, and 65 overnight. So I turned the thermostat
off, but the same behavior exists. The baseboard is always warm to
the touch.

The other zones were fine, until a few weeks ago. The dining room
zone will not move off of 70, even though we have a similar heating
patern programmed into the thermostat. I turned off the thermostat
and the temperature dropped like you'd expect it to. Turn it back on
and we're right back to 70 again.

Anyone have any ideas as to what might be happening? Our heating
bills are nearly $400 a month now and I assume that the heating issue
has something to do with it.

Thanks.

Do you have five circulators and flow controls, or a combination of zone
valves and circulators? and how many of each?




"Max" wrote in message
...
We have a hot water baseboard heater with 5 zones from 1994ish that
recently started acting weird.

About 3 months ago, I noticed that the expansion tank was leaking at
the seam...so I replaced it with new. For about 3 weeks, the system
was very loud, even after purging as much air as I possibly could out
of it. Eventually, all the air purged through the auto fill valve and
the noise is gone.

Recently, the master bedroom zone temperature wasn't varying at all as
it should with our programable thermostats. At night, the temperature
is about 70 at 10pm, and rises to between 72 and 77 by 6am...then
drops back to 70 during the day. We have it set to 58 during the day,
68 between 6 and 10, and 65 overnight. So I turned the thermostat
off, but the same behavior exists. The baseboard is always warm to
the touch.

The other zones were fine, until a few weeks ago. The dining room
zone will not move off of 70, even though we have a similar heating
patern programmed into the thermostat. I turned off the thermostat
and the temperature dropped like you'd expect it to. Turn it back on
and we're right back to 70 again.

Anyone have any ideas as to what might be happening? Our heating
bills are nearly $400 a month now and I assume that the heating issue
has something to do with it.

Thanks.

Thanks for the quick replys. Here's some more info for you.

It's a Burnham furnace, pressure dropped to 0 when we changed the
expansion tank. Current pressure is 20PSI, current temperature is a
hair under 170.

We have 5 zones with Taco Cartridge Circs Model 007-F4

The controls are Argo ARM842 (3 zone) with 2 expansion zone controls,
also Argo of course.

Sounds like the temp might be too high then? What would cause that
and is there a way for me to adjust it without calling in a pro?

Thanks.

Max wrote:

Thanks for the quick replys. Here's some more info for you.

It's a Burnham furnace, pressure dropped to 0 when we changed the
expansion tank. Current pressure is 20PSI, current temperature is a
hair under 170.

We have 5 zones with Taco Cartridge Circs Model 007-F4

The controls are Argo ARM842 (3 zone) with 2 expansion zone controls,
also Argo of course.

Sounds like the temp might be too high then? What would cause that
and is there a way for me to adjust it without calling in a pro?

Thanks.


170F may be normal; all depends on the heat load
the boiler must supply. You'd have to look if there
is an adjustable temp sensor in the boiler (water).
Leave the temp alone; that's probably a red herring.

Each circulator should prevent self-circulation
in its own loop when not running. That may be a clue.

There is a helpful forum here you might post to:
http://forum.doityourself.com/forumdisplay.php?f=128
Whip up a few photos of the zone pump layout.

Jim

You can see a picture of the system here....I'll post to the other
group when I get some free time.

http://www.advantechcny.com/zones.jpg

Thanks

Max wrote:

You can see a picture of the system here....I'll post to the other
group when I get some free time.

http://www.advantechcny.com/zones.jpg

Thanks


Close the ball valve above the circulator
for the zone which is overheating even
though the circ isn't running. If that
stops the zone heating, then you know
hot water is bypassing (running thru)
the circ.

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
t...
Max wrote:

You can see a picture of the system here....I'll post to the other
group when I get some free time.

http://www.advantechcny.com/zones.jpg

Thanks


Close the ball valve above the circulator
for the zone which is overheating even
though the circ isn't running. If that
stops the zone heating, then you know
hot water is bypassing (running thru)
the circ.

I'm not seeing flow checks in the system and the circulators he noted, don't
have integral flow checks

RBM wrote:
"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
t...

Max wrote:


You can see a picture of the system here....I'll post to the other
group when I get some free time.

http://www.advantechcny.com/zones.jpg

Thanks


Close the ball valve above the circulator
for the zone which is overheating even
though the circ isn't running. If that
stops the zone heating, then you know
hot water is bypassing (running thru)
the circ.


I'm not seeing flow checks in the system and the circulators he noted, don't
have integral flow checks


Right on. That's my suspicion too.

Apparently the system *did* work at one time though.
Hmmmmm

There are flow check valves installed...just a little further down the
line. I had some trouble loosening all but one screw as they wouldn't
budge. Not sure if they should be left open or screwed tight? One is
open, the others are closed or mostly closed.

The system did work just fine.

I'm not sure if it's an issue, but the circ pumps pull, not push.

I have created a line diagram of the system you can see he
http://www.advantechcny.com/diag.pdf

Thanks for your help so far. I'll shut off the zone above the pump
tonight and see what happens overnight.

Max wrote:

There are flow check valves installed...just a little further down the
line. I had some trouble loosening all but one screw as they wouldn't
budge. Not sure if they should be left open or screwed tight? One is
open, the others are closed or mostly closed.

The system did work just fine.

I'm not sure if it's an issue, but the circ pumps pull, not push.

I have created a line diagram of the system you can see he
http://www.advantechcny.com/diag.pdf

Thanks for your help so far. I'll shut off the zone above the pump
tonight and see what happens overnight.

The flow controls are set to balance the zones.
Probably not critical on your system with individual
zone pumps.

But one of them may have failed (corroded/debris)
in such a way to allow gravity flow in that zone.

Curious if the one that was open is on the affected zone. These valves
prevent backflow and if left open, allow the zone to work by gravity. Try
closing them all




"Max" wrote in message
...
There are flow check valves installed...just a little further down the
line. I had some trouble loosening all but one screw as they wouldn't
budge. Not sure if they should be left open or screwed tight? One is
open, the others are closed or mostly closed.

The system did work just fine.

I'm not sure if it's an issue, but the circ pumps pull, not push.

I have created a line diagram of the system you can see he
http://www.advantechcny.com/diag.pdf

Thanks for your help so far. I'll shut off the zone above the pump
tonight and see what happens overnight.