There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).

PIc is at: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg

Thanks!

On Jan 25, 6:00 pm, wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).

PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg

Thanks!


That is a 12V or 24V transformer supplying electricity to the furnace
thermostat system, or to your doorbell, or perhaps an alarm system.


Dave

wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).

PIc is at: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg

Thanks!


It's a transformer to step down the 110 volt line to 9 or 12 volts for
use in the smoke detector. The wire coming off it goes to some other low
voltage device, probably another smoke detector or possibly a doorbell.

It's not attached to the side of your smoke detector. It's attached to
the side of a junction box which your smoke detector is mounted to. If
you remove the smoke detector from the J box you should see one of the
110 lines (two wires) connected to the transformer and two wires coming
from the transformer to the smoke detector. Be sure to flip the breaker
for this circuit before digging around inside the J box and hook
everything up as before once you move it. If the coil of wire is not
long enough to reach the new location you can safely splice an extra
length of the same gauge wire and tape the splices well with
electricians tape.

On Jan 26, 2:34*am, Simpson wrote:
wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. *It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. *I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).

PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg

Thanks!

It's a transformer to step down the 110 volt line to 9 or 12 volts for
use in the smoke detector. The wire coming off it goes to some other low
voltage device, probably another smoke detector or possibly a doorbell.

It's not attached to the side of your smoke detector. It's attached to
the side of a junction box which your smoke detector is mounted to. If
you remove the smoke detector from the J box you should see one of the
110 lines (two wires) connected to the transformer and two wires coming
from the transformer to the smoke detector. Be sure to flip the breaker
for this circuit before digging around inside the J box and hook
everything up as before once you move it. If the coil of wire is not
long enough to reach the new location you can safely splice an extra
length of the same gauge wire and tape the splices well with
electricians tape.

Not sure but looks like, from that one picture, that it is a mains
operated smoke alarm. With possibly a mains to low voltage transformer
mounted on the side of the same electrical octagon box on which the
smoke alarm is mounted?

The springy telephone type cord looks like it comes off the low
voltage output of that transformer; whether it has anything to do with
the smoke alarm itself is hard to determine!

Maybe it was merely a convenient means to obtain and convey low AC
voltage to something else; such as a door bell/chime circuit? Or a
home buzzer system or even some low voltage thermostats????

Or perhaps it is even a home brew alteration to the smoke alarm to
transmit a signal or voltage to shut off or to alarm something else.

Needs someone with a knowledge of circuitry to trace out what is going
on; virtually impossible to be sure of anything without hands-on.

If not electrically competent suggest don't do anything; AC operated
alarms are sometimes linked between floors and are required to be so
by insurance companies and fire inspection jurisdictions. Moving or
changing one might (unsafely) disable a whole system.

terry wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:34 am, Simpson wrote:
wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).
PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg
Thanks!
It's a transformer to step down the 110 volt line to 9 or 12 volts for
use in the smoke detector. The wire coming off it goes to some other low
voltage device, probably another smoke detector or possibly a doorbell.

It's not attached to the side of your smoke detector. It's attached to
the side of a junction box which your smoke detector is mounted to. If
you remove the smoke detector from the J box you should see one of the
110 lines (two wires) connected to the transformer and two wires coming
from the transformer to the smoke detector. Be sure to flip the breaker
for this circuit before digging around inside the J box and hook
everything up as before once you move it. If the coil of wire is not
long enough to reach the new location you can safely splice an extra
length of the same gauge wire and tape the splices well with
electricians tape.

Not sure but looks like, from that one picture, that it is a mains
operated smoke alarm. With possibly a mains to low voltage transformer
mounted on the side of the same electrical octagon box on which the
smoke alarm is mounted?

The springy telephone type cord looks like it comes off the low
voltage output of that transformer; whether it has anything to do with
the smoke alarm itself is hard to determine!

Maybe it was merely a convenient means to obtain and convey low AC
voltage to something else; such as a door bell/chime circuit? Or a
home buzzer system or even some low voltage thermostats????

Or perhaps it is even a home brew alteration to the smoke alarm to
transmit a signal or voltage to shut off or to alarm something else.

Needs someone with a knowledge of circuitry to trace out what is going
on; virtually impossible to be sure of anything without hands-on.

If not electrically competent suggest don't do anything; AC operated
alarms are sometimes linked between floors and are required to be so
by insurance companies and fire inspection jurisdictions. Moving or
changing one might (unsafely) disable a whole system.

You're might be more on the money than I am. I wasn't aware that smoke
detectors are made to be connected to 110 volts. In any case, flip the
breaker off and hook up everything as before.

wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).

PIc is at: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg

Thanks!

Sure looks like a doorbell transformer to me. You could always
disconnect it and see if your doorbell suddenly stops working.

I suspect that you have a "tandem" type 120VAC smoke detector based on
the 14/3 leaving that box. Generally the red wire is used as a tandem
connection between the smokes so if one alarms they all start sounding.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Jan 26, 2:41*am, Simpson wrote:
terry wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:34 am, Simpson wrote:
wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. *It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. *I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).
PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg
Thanks!
It's a transformer to step down the 110 volt line to 9 or 12 volts for
use in the smoke detector. The wire coming off it goes to some other low
voltage device, probably another smoke detector or possibly a doorbell.

It's not attached to the side of your smoke detector. It's attached to
the side of a junction box which your smoke detector is mounted to. If
you remove the smoke detector from the J box you should see one of the
110 lines (two wires) connected to the transformer and two wires coming
from the transformer to the smoke detector. Be sure to flip the breaker
for this circuit before digging around inside the J box and hook
everything up as before once you move it. If the coil of wire is not
long enough to reach the new location you can safely splice an extra
length of the same gauge wire and tape the splices well with
electricians tape.

Not sure but looks like, from that one picture, that it is a mains
operated smoke alarm. With possibly a mains to low voltage transformer
mounted on the side of the same electrical octagon box on which the
smoke alarm is mounted?

The springy telephone type cord looks like it comes off the low
voltage output of that transformer; whether it has anything to do with
the smoke alarm itself is hard to determine!

Maybe it was merely a convenient means to obtain and convey low AC
voltage to something else; such as a door bell/chime circuit? *Or a
home buzzer system or even some low voltage thermostats????

Or perhaps it is even a home brew alteration to the smoke alarm to
transmit a signal or voltage to shut off or to alarm something else.

Needs someone with a knowledge of circuitry to trace out what is going
on; virtually impossible to be sure of anything without hands-on.

If not electrically competent suggest don't do anything; AC operated
alarms are sometimes linked between floors and are required to be so
by insurance companies and fire inspection jurisdictions. Moving or
changing one might (unsafely) disable a whole system.

You're might be more on the money than I am. I wasn't aware that smoke
detectors are made to be connected to 110 volts. In any case, flip the
breaker off and hook up everything as before.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some smoke alarms are AC operated. In fact starting some 30 years ago
the (Public) Housing Corp. here required them to be not battery
operated; too many cases of people taking out or not replacing the
batteries!

Also new regs. require them, in many parts of Canada, to be linked
between floors. Not sure if the AC ones have a storage battery inside
to ensure continued operation in case the power fails or trips off
(perhaps as the result of a fire!) but think not.

wrote in message
...
On Jan 25, 6:00 pm, wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).

PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg

Thanks!


That is a 12V or 24V transformer supplying electricity to the furnace
thermostat system, or to your doorbell, or perhaps an alarm system.

Agreed, that is a door bell type of transformer to supply low voltage to
something. It really should be accessible, not hidden behind drywall. That
looks like a bad shoddy installation job -- great photography, I can see a
number of problems: There shouldn't be two cables under that one clamp, that
3 wire cable looks like it is attached to the joist with a wire staple or
bent nail instead of an approved cable staple or strap, the curled wire
seems to be spliced to another type where it changes direction, looks like
scraps put together. I wonder what else is hidden behind that drywall.

On Jan 25, 6:00 pm, wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).

PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg

Thanks!

Gawd only knows, from a picture, but it is remotely possible that the
transformer is part of some enhanced alarm system -- possibly powering
a bell or strobe that activates when/if the smoke detector goes off.
Something like that would be used if the previous owner had a handicap.

That's exactly what it is. A plain Jane doorbell transformer. Just
disconnect the low voltage wires and check your doorbell







"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).

PIc is at: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg

Thanks!

Sure looks like a doorbell transformer to me. You could always disconnect
it and see if your doorbell suddenly stops working.

I suspect that you have a "tandem" type 120VAC smoke detector based on the
14/3 leaving that box. Generally the red wire is used as a tandem
connection between the smokes so if one alarms they all start sounding.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Simpson" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:34 am, Simpson wrote:
wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).
PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg
Thanks!
It's a transformer to step down the 110 volt line to 9 or 12 volts for
use in the smoke detector. The wire coming off it goes to some other low
voltage device, probably another smoke detector or possibly a doorbell.

It's not attached to the side of your smoke detector. It's attached to
the side of a junction box which your smoke detector is mounted to. If
you remove the smoke detector from the J box you should see one of the
110 lines (two wires) connected to the transformer and two wires coming
from the transformer to the smoke detector. Be sure to flip the breaker
for this circuit before digging around inside the J box and hook
everything up as before once you move it. If the coil of wire is not
long enough to reach the new location you can safely splice an extra
length of the same gauge wire and tape the splices well with
electricians tape.

Not sure but looks like, from that one picture, that it is a mains
operated smoke alarm. With possibly a mains to low voltage transformer
mounted on the side of the same electrical octagon box on which the
smoke alarm is mounted?

The springy telephone type cord looks like it comes off the low
voltage output of that transformer; whether it has anything to do with
the smoke alarm itself is hard to determine!

Maybe it was merely a convenient means to obtain and convey low AC
voltage to something else; such as a door bell/chime circuit? Or a
home buzzer system or even some low voltage thermostats????

Or perhaps it is even a home brew alteration to the smoke alarm to
transmit a signal or voltage to shut off or to alarm something else.

Needs someone with a knowledge of circuitry to trace out what is going
on; virtually impossible to be sure of anything without hands-on.

If not electrically competent suggest don't do anything; AC operated
alarms are sometimes linked between floors and are required to be so
by insurance companies and fire inspection jurisdictions. Moving or
changing one might (unsafely) disable a whole system.

You're might be more on the money than I am. I wasn't aware that smoke
detectors are made to be connected to 110 volts. In any case, flip the
breaker off and hook up everything as before.

Here in Ontario, Canada line voltage smoke alarms have been mandated for new
construction for the past 25 years, one is needed on each floor, a 3 wire
cable hooks them together so if one goes off, they all sound off.

You can buy them in whatever flavor you want or need. 9V battery, 120V,
9V&120V, interconnected or not, etc,etc.




"terry" wrote in message
...
On Jan 26, 2:41 am, Simpson wrote:
terry wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:34 am, Simpson wrote:
wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).
PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg
Thanks!
It's a transformer to step down the 110 volt line to 9 or 12 volts for
use in the smoke detector. The wire coming off it goes to some other
low
voltage device, probably another smoke detector or possibly a doorbell.

It's not attached to the side of your smoke detector. It's attached to
the side of a junction box which your smoke detector is mounted to. If
you remove the smoke detector from the J box you should see one of the
110 lines (two wires) connected to the transformer and two wires coming
from the transformer to the smoke detector. Be sure to flip the breaker
for this circuit before digging around inside the J box and hook
everything up as before once you move it. If the coil of wire is not
long enough to reach the new location you can safely splice an extra
length of the same gauge wire and tape the splices well with
electricians tape.

Not sure but looks like, from that one picture, that it is a mains
operated smoke alarm. With possibly a mains to low voltage transformer
mounted on the side of the same electrical octagon box on which the
smoke alarm is mounted?

The springy telephone type cord looks like it comes off the low
voltage output of that transformer; whether it has anything to do with
the smoke alarm itself is hard to determine!

Maybe it was merely a convenient means to obtain and convey low AC
voltage to something else; such as a door bell/chime circuit? Or a
home buzzer system or even some low voltage thermostats????

Or perhaps it is even a home brew alteration to the smoke alarm to
transmit a signal or voltage to shut off or to alarm something else.

Needs someone with a knowledge of circuitry to trace out what is going
on; virtually impossible to be sure of anything without hands-on.

If not electrically competent suggest don't do anything; AC operated
alarms are sometimes linked between floors and are required to be so
by insurance companies and fire inspection jurisdictions. Moving or
changing one might (unsafely) disable a whole system.

You're might be more on the money than I am. I wasn't aware that smoke
detectors are made to be connected to 110 volts. In any case, flip the
breaker off and hook up everything as before.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some smoke alarms are AC operated. In fact starting some 30 years ago
the (Public) Housing Corp. here required them to be not battery
operated; too many cases of people taking out or not replacing the
batteries!

Also new regs. require them, in many parts of Canada, to be linked
between floors. Not sure if the AC ones have a storage battery inside
to ensure continued operation in case the power fails or trips off
(perhaps as the result of a fire!) but think not.

Thanks everyone - you've got me believing it's my doorbell xformer.
All the smoke detectors in the house ARE interconnected on a single
circuit on 110V with battery backups in each. I do have an alarm
system, so I was kind of suspecting that it might be related to that,
hence my confusion. Also - this pic is in the basement where I'm
putting up new drywall, so this was all exposed before, just nailed to
a joist at the bottom of the steps. I actually have a much better
place to connect the x-former to 110v power so I'll have access to it
as this smoke detector box will definitely be behind drywall. But
I'll check it tomorrow - I'm sure it is the doorbell. Last question -
will I have any issues disconnecting the transformer from this box and
moving it to another one? It's not integral to the j-box or anything
is it (I only ask since I don't see mounting screws or anything).

terry wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:41 am, Simpson wrote:
terry wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:34 am, Simpson wrote:
wrote:
There's a metal box attached to the side of my smoke alarm box with
what looks like a phone line coming out of it. It travels between the
joists for about 10' before disappearing into the subfloor above. I'd
like to disconnect this box to mount the smoke detector in a new place
(and will reattach then if needed).
PIc is at:http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8822/img0693st8.jpg
Thanks!
It's a transformer to step down the 110 volt line to 9 or 12 volts for
use in the smoke detector. The wire coming off it goes to some other low
voltage device, probably another smoke detector or possibly a doorbell.
It's not attached to the side of your smoke detector. It's attached to
the side of a junction box which your smoke detector is mounted to. If
you remove the smoke detector from the J box you should see one of the
110 lines (two wires) connected to the transformer and two wires coming
from the transformer to the smoke detector. Be sure to flip the breaker
for this circuit before digging around inside the J box and hook
everything up as before once you move it. If the coil of wire is not
long enough to reach the new location you can safely splice an extra
length of the same gauge wire and tape the splices well with
electricians tape.
Not sure but looks like, from that one picture, that it is a mains
operated smoke alarm. With possibly a mains to low voltage transformer
mounted on the side of the same electrical octagon box on which the
smoke alarm is mounted?
The springy telephone type cord looks like it comes off the low
voltage output of that transformer; whether it has anything to do with
the smoke alarm itself is hard to determine!
Maybe it was merely a convenient means to obtain and convey low AC
voltage to something else; such as a door bell/chime circuit? Or a
home buzzer system or even some low voltage thermostats????
Or perhaps it is even a home brew alteration to the smoke alarm to
transmit a signal or voltage to shut off or to alarm something else.
Needs someone with a knowledge of circuitry to trace out what is going
on; virtually impossible to be sure of anything without hands-on.
If not electrically competent suggest don't do anything; AC operated
alarms are sometimes linked between floors and are required to be so
by insurance companies and fire inspection jurisdictions. Moving or
changing one might (unsafely) disable a whole system.
You're might be more on the money than I am. I wasn't aware that smoke
detectors are made to be connected to 110 volts. In any case, flip the
breaker off and hook up everything as before.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some smoke alarms are AC operated. In fact starting some 30 years ago
the (Public) Housing Corp. here required them to be not battery
operated; too many cases of people taking out or not replacing the
batteries!

Also new regs. require them, in many parts of Canada, to be linked
between floors. Not sure if the AC ones have a storage battery inside
to ensure continued operation in case the power fails or trips off
(perhaps as the result of a fire!) but think not.


The 115 Volt AC type of smoke detector are manufactured both with and
without a backup battery compartment. Were detectors are required to
meet code the regulations often, but not always, require the kind with
back up battery. I would be willing to bet that the transformer has
nothing to do with the smoke detector unless it is a field designed
circuit. Does the home have any kind of alarm system? Do you know were
the alarm system gets it's power? If it is a field designed signaling
circuit then one side of the transformers primary winding will be
connected to the white wire and one side will be connected to the alarm
common which will be the red conductor of the three wire cable. If it
is smoke detector power supervision then when you open the breaker it
will cause some signal in your home alarm system to be transmitted to
the monitoring station and they will call you to ask if everything is
all right. That last I would think extremely unlikely to be the case.
The easiest way to find out is to disconnect one lead from the
transformers external screw terminals. Then check to see if your door
bell, furnace controls, or other low voltage devices if any still work.
I'd bet even money on the door bell and give two to one odds on it
having nothing to do with the smoke detector at all.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Tom Horne wrote:


The 115 Volt AC type of smoke detector are manufactured both with and
without a backup battery compartment. Were detectors are required to
meet code the regulations often, but not always, require the kind with
back up battery.
..
The 2008 NEC, under AFCIs (210.12-B), has a fine print note referring to
NFPA 72, the standard for smoke alarms. IIRC the discussion for the 2008
code change on AFCIs was that NFPA 72 requires a "secondary power
supply" for smoke alarms on AFCI circuits. AFCIs in the 2008 NEC are
required just about everywhere in a residence a GFCI is not required.
(It would help if the FPN was more explicit.)

--
bud--

EXT posted for all of us...

Agreed, that is a door bell type of transformer to supply low voltage to
something. It really should be accessible, not hidden behind drywall. That
looks like a bad shoddy installation job -- great photography, I can see a
number of problems: There shouldn't be two cables under that one clamp, that

If if it's approved for what's under it?

3 wire cable looks like it is attached to the joist with a wire staple or

Looks like an Arrow staple to me.

bent nail instead of an approved cable staple or strap, the curled wire
seems to be spliced to another type where it changes direction, looks like
scraps put together. I wonder what else is hidden behind that drywall.

Looks like it disappears where one can't tell where it goes. Nice to leave the
long wire curled like that.

--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.