I may be in real trouble but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure I can make a good connection from the water heater to the
pipes, or that the WH itself isn't going to leak.

I'm installing a replacement water heater in the basement, and when I
opened the box, I saw that the flat top of WH as crushed in about 4 to
7/16". It was like a stadium sloped at the sides and flat in the
middle.

I did a bunch of measurements, and composed a long post for you guys,
asking what to do. But from the measurements and observation, and the
use of a level, I decided I could answer the question myself and it
was OK. So I didn't sent the post.

The water heater already had cold and hot nipples screwed in at the
factory. I had just cut the pipes to the previous heater and planned
to splice the two pipes with connectors.

So I put the WH in place, and screwed in the new screw-on to sweat
joint, plus 5 inches of 3/4" copper pipe, for both cold and hot, and
that's when I saw that thos short pipes are not parallel. One is
straight up, but the cold is off a quarter inch at the top of the 5"
pipe from the WH.

The cold water pipe above it that it is supposed to connect to goes up
two feet before it reaches the ceiling, where there is a T (to the
powder room sink on the first floor) and and the middle of the T goes
8 inches to another T, and then 15 feet.

I can easily pull the cold water pipe a quarter inch to the right 5"
above the WH and get it in the connector. Is there a risk that
eventually the pipe the pipe will crack somewhere because of the
stress this will cause????

Should I move the WH an eighth inch to the right to spread the stress
onto both the cold and hot pipes?

I know this sounds like a trivial amount, but in college, I twisted a
sink faucet about 10 degrees that was connected to a copper pipe (1/2
inch?), and 3 months later, it started leaking. Went almost to a
small stream within a day or so. So I'm leak shy.

Also, there is a small but visible angle at the connector. Do you
think that means there is less strain on the pipes?? And does that
mean I'm not likely to get a good solder joint when I solder??


ALSO2, Do you think it likely the tank itself will leak at the top,
now or later?? The cold water inlet is bent a little and both
nipples seem to be 7/16" lower than they originally were. I didn't
damage anything. I would have paid for delivery, but Sears would not
deliver the tank unless they installed it too, so I think if I want to
return the tank now, I'll have to bring it back myself and take the
new one home myself, or find someone to do that. My convertible top
is broken now (for the first time in 40 years), so I can't do it
myself.

On Jan 22, 3:19*pm, mm wrote:
I may be in real trouble but I'm not sure. *

I'm not sure I can make a good connection from the water heater to the
pipes, or that the WH itself isn't going to leak.

I'm installing a replacement water heater in the basement, and when I
opened the box, I saw that the flat top of WH as crushed in about 4 to
7/16". It was like a stadium sloped at the sides and flat in the
middle.

I did a bunch of measurements, and composed a long post for you guys,
asking what to do. *But from the measurements and observation, and the
use of a level, I decided I could answer the question myself and it
was OK. *So I didn't sent the post.

The water heater already had cold and hot nipples screwed in at the
factory. *I had just cut the pipes to the previous heater and planned
to splice the two pipes with connectors.

So I put the WH in place, and screwed in the new screw-on to sweat
joint, plus 5 inches of 3/4" copper pipe, for both cold and hot, and
that's when I saw that thos short pipes are not parallel. *One is
straight up, but the cold is off a quarter inch at the top of the 5"
pipe from the WH.

The cold water pipe above it that it is supposed to connect to goes up
two feet before it reaches the ceiling, where there is a T (to the
powder room sink on the first floor) and and the middle of the T goes
8 inches to another T, and then 15 feet.

I can easily pull the cold water pipe a quarter inch to the right 5"
above the WH and get it in the connector. *Is there a risk that
eventually the pipe the pipe will crack somewhere because of the
stress this will cause????

Should I move the WH an eighth inch to the right to spread the stress
onto both the cold and hot pipes? *

I know this sounds like a trivial amount, but in college, I twisted a
sink faucet about 10 degrees that was connected to a copper pipe (1/2
inch?), and 3 months later, it started leaking. *Went almost to a
small stream within a day or so. *So I'm leak shy.

Also, there is a small but visible angle at the connector. *Do you
think that means there is less strain on the pipes?? *And does that
mean I'm not likely to get a good solder joint when I solder??

ALSO2, Do you think it likely the tank itself will leak at the top,
now or later?? * The cold water inlet is bent a little and both
nipples seem to be 7/16" lower than they originally were. * I didn't
damage anything. *I would have paid for delivery, but Sears would not
deliver the tank unless they installed it too, so I think if I want to
return the tank now, I'll have to bring it back myself and take the
new one home myself, or find someone to do that. *My convertible top
is broken now (for the first time in 40 years), so I can't do it
myself.

IMHO, installing a water heater with visible damage is just setting
yourself up for trouble. Odds are that any warranty will be void. Can
you imagine what the service guy would say when he came over to
perform a warranty call? I doubt he would believe you when you said
"It came that way". Even if he did, he would certainly wonder why you
would have installed a dented water heater.

Regardless of the hassle, you should take it back - assuming *they*
will take it back. It might be tough to prove that you didn't damage
it yourself, but they might not care. Hopefully the guy at the return
counter will simply mark it as damaged and give you a new one.

In any case, to even consider installing it is just asking for
trouble.

Good luck!

In article , mm wrote:

I may be in real trouble but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure I can make a good connection from the water heater to the
pipes, or that the WH itself isn't going to leak.

I'm installing a replacement water heater in the basement, and when I
opened the box, I saw that the flat top of WH as crushed in about 4 to
7/16". It was like a stadium sloped at the sides and flat in the
middle.

Why didn't you stop right then, and return it to the place you bought it from?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I'm not sure but something is telling me that the water heater is
lined with porcelain. If the pipes were bent the porcelain is damaged.

On Jan 22, 3:00*pm, wrote:
I'm not sure but something is telling me that the water heater is
lined with porcelain. If the pipes were bent the porcelain is damaged.

Take it back, if you move the tank around you should hear loose stuff,
it is a glass lined tank, right.

mm wrote:
I may be in real trouble but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure I can make a good connection from the water heater to the
pipes, or that the WH itself isn't going to leak.

I'm installing a replacement water heater in the basement, and when I
opened the box, I saw that the flat top of WH as crushed in about 4 to
7/16". It was like a stadium sloped at the sides and flat in the
middle.

I would take it back and get another. Installing a damaged unit is just
asking for trouble.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:11:09 -0800 (PST), ransley
wrote:

On Jan 22, 3:00*pm, wrote:
I'm not sure but something is telling me that the water heater is
lined with porcelain. If the pipes were bent the porcelain is damaged.

Take it back, if you move the tank around you should hear loose stuff,
it is a glass lined tank, right.

Well, I didn't hear anything when I was moving the WH a lot taking it
home and down the stairs etc. I cut open the previous one, and the
lining seems almost nothing like glass to me. It's light brown, 1/16
inch thick, and the consistency of a plastic place mat for the
breakfast, but stiffer because it's thicker.

So there is no way the liner ould break, and I don't think the tank
dome could be crushed either, because it's semi-spherical, but
apparently the threaded hole where the nipple goes could be bent**.
But I don't think one bend could cause a leak in the metal, 1/16"
steel.

I can't see in the owner's manual that it is called "glass lined". I
don't have the patience right now to read it thoroughly, but maybe
they don't consider that vinyl-looking sheet to be glass.

I've only disected the top foot of the previous tank. Looking at it, I
was able to peel off the lining, and its strong. No way could anyone
tear it to get it off the where the upper element or the T&P valve go.
I had to use Wizz compound tinsnips.

Then, suprisingly, it was wet underneath in parts, and in other parts
there were black spots almost the size of a penny. It wasn't brown
like rust, but it still seemed like it was starting to rust or
something. But no evidence of this on the outside of the tank. I'm
going to tear apart the bottom more thoroughly, to find where the tank
leak in the old one was, but haven't done that yet.



The old one, although twelve years old, is almost identical to the new
one. The owners manual, (the text, the graphics, and everything), the
electric wiring, the arrangement of everything, the distance between
hot and cold, and the store (Sears) are all the same. I think they
are made by A.O.Smith, like my original WH, but AOSmith doesn't sell
retail afaict.


** -- I just remembered that that is where the diptube is attached.
If the pipe going up is 1/4 inch off at 5 inches, at 50 or 55 inches
going down, it will be 2 1/2 inches off or a little more. And the
tube makes a big circle at the bottowm for what they call Roto-Swirl,
which is supposed to stir the sediment around, although I can't
remember what the purpose of that is. Of course I barely have any
sediment.

On Jan 22, 7:21*pm, mm wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:11:09 -0800 (PST), ransley

wrote:
On Jan 22, 3:00*pm, wrote:
I'm not sure but something is telling me that the water heater is
lined with porcelain. If the pipes were bent the porcelain is damaged.

Take it back, if you move the tank around you should hear loose stuff,
it is a glass lined tank, right.

Well, I didn't hear anything when I was moving the WH a lot taking it
home and down the stairs etc. *I cut open the previous one, and the
lining seems almost nothing like glass to me. *It's light brown, 1/16
inch thick, and the consistency of a plastic place mat for the
breakfast, but stiffer because it's thicker.

So there is no way the liner ould break, and I don't think the tank
dome could be crushed either, because it's semi-spherical, but
apparently the threaded hole where the nipple goes could be bent**.
But I don't think one bend could cause a leak in the metal, 1/16"
steel.

I can't see in the owner's manual that it is called "glass lined". I
don't have the patience right now to read it thoroughly, but maybe
they don't consider that vinyl-looking sheet to be glass.

I've only disected the top foot of the previous tank. Looking at it, I
was able to peel off the lining, and its strong. *No way could anyone
tear it to get it off the where the upper element or the T&P valve go.
I had to use Wizz compound tinsnips.

Then, suprisingly, it was wet underneath in parts, and in other parts
there were black spots almost the size of a penny. *It wasn't brown
like rust, but it still seemed like it was starting to rust or
something. *But no evidence of this on the outside of the tank. *I'm
going to tear apart the bottom more thoroughly, to find where the tank
leak in the old one was, but haven't done that yet.

The old one, although twelve years old, is almost identical to the new
one. The owners manual, (the text, the graphics, and everything), the
electric wiring, the arrangement of everything, the distance between
hot and cold, and the store (Sears) are all the same. *I think they
are made by A.O.Smith, like my original WH, but AOSmith doesn't sell
retail afaict.

** -- I just remembered that that is where the diptube is attached.
If the pipe going up is 1/4 inch off at 5 inches, at 50 or 55 inches
going down, it will be 2 1/2 inches off or a little more. *And the
tube makes a big circle at the bottowm for what they call Roto-Swirl,
which is supposed to stir the sediment around, although I can't
remember what the purpose of that is. *Of course I barely have any
sediment.

You are right, so its got a few dents in it, the pipe is bent, and who
cares about a warranty, put it in, its your heater and returning it is
alot of work, go for it.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:11:09 -0800 (PST), ransley
wrote:

On Jan 22, 3:00 pm, wrote:
I'm not sure but something is telling me that the water heater is
lined with porcelain. If the pipes were bent the porcelain is damaged.

Take it back, if you move the tank around you should hear loose stuff,
it is a glass lined tank, right.

Well, I didn't hear anything when I was moving the WH a lot taking it
home and down the stairs etc. I cut open the previous one, and the
lining seems almost nothing like glass to me. It's light brown, 1/16
inch thick, and the consistency of a plastic place mat for the
breakfast, but stiffer because it's thicker.

last summer i encountered an artist who cuts up old w/hs and uses them to
make planters. she said in many years of working on them, she's never
encountered glass internals. i doubt they've made them that way for a long
time, but once did so.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

On Jan 22, 8:21*pm, mm wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:11:09 -0800 (PST), ransley

wrote:
On Jan 22, 3:00*pm, wrote:
I'm not sure but something is telling me that the water heater is
lined with porcelain. If the pipes were bent the porcelain is damaged.

Take it back, if you move the tank around you should hear loose stuff,
it is a glass lined tank, right.

Well, I didn't hear anything when I was moving the WH a lot taking it
home and down the stairs etc. *I cut open the previous one, and the
lining seems almost nothing like glass to me. *It's light brown, 1/16
inch thick, and the consistency of a plastic place mat for the
breakfast, but stiffer because it's thicker.

So there is no way the liner ould break, and I don't think the tank
dome could be crushed either, because it's semi-spherical, but
apparently the threaded hole where the nipple goes could be bent**.
But I don't think one bend could cause a leak in the metal, 1/16"
steel.

I can't see in the owner's manual that it is called "glass lined". I
don't have the patience right now to read it thoroughly, but maybe
they don't consider that vinyl-looking sheet to be glass.

I've only disected the top foot of the previous tank. Looking at it, I
was able to peel off the lining, and its strong. *No way could anyone
tear it to get it off the where the upper element or the T&P valve go.
I had to use Wizz compound tinsnips.

Then, suprisingly, it was wet underneath in parts, and in other parts
there were black spots almost the size of a penny. *It wasn't brown
like rust, but it still seemed like it was starting to rust or
something. *But no evidence of this on the outside of the tank. *I'm
going to tear apart the bottom more thoroughly, to find where the tank
leak in the old one was, but haven't done that yet.

The old one, although twelve years old, is almost identical to the new
one. The owners manual, (the text, the graphics, and everything), the
electric wiring, the arrangement of everything, the distance between
hot and cold, and the store (Sears) are all the same. *I think they
are made by A.O.Smith, like my original WH, but AOSmith doesn't sell
retail afaict.

** -- I just remembered that that is where the diptube is attached.
If the pipe going up is 1/4 inch off at 5 inches, at 50 or 55 inches
going down, it will be 2 1/2 inches off or a little more. *And the
tube makes a big circle at the bottowm for what they call Roto-Swirl,
which is supposed to stir the sediment around, although I can't
remember what the purpose of that is. *Of course I barely have any
sediment.

If you are trying to convince *us* that the dented WH is OK based on
your disection of the old one, you're seriously wasting more time than
you already have.

If you're trying to convince *yourself*, well, you really don't need
to do that in this newsgroup.