How can one find out the age of such items? Its a Weil-McClaine boiler
and I think the model no is E 5 or 6. I see the tag but its in a
difficult position to be able to unscrew the 2 screws to get a better
reading. I think it was said that a boiler life time should be around
30 years. I think this unit is closer to 40 years already.

On Jan 18, 5:55*pm, Noel wrote:
How can one find out the age of such items? Its a Weil-McClaine boiler
and I think the model no is E 5 or 6. I see the tag but its in a
difficult position to be able to unscrew the 2 screws to get a better
reading. I think it was said that a boiler life time should be around
30 years. I think this unit is closer to 40 years already.

Why do you want to know, it might be only 70% effecient, todays
minimums are about 82% and you can go to 96.7% if you are smart. If
its that old and you live where heat is a big cost, get a net one now
and stop thinking about it. It will increase your homes value.

"ransley" wrote in message
Why do you want to know, it might be only 70% effecient, todays
minimums are about 82% and you can go to 96.7% if you are smart. If
its that old and you live where heat is a big cost, get a net one now
and stop thinking about it. It will increase your homes value.

Not as smart as people think. From an ecological point of view, saving oil
is a good thing. As a fiscal investment, for me to upgrade the boiler the
payback is about 12 years. I'm not in a hurry to upgrade.

On Jan 18, 10:17 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

Why do you want to know, it might be only 70% effecient, todays
minimums are about 82% and you can go to 96.7% if you are smart. If
its that old and you live where heat is a big cost, get a net one now
and stop thinking about it. It will increase your homes value.


True, but as I see it, the value can be arrived upon the sale of the
home as an incentive..so either way it would 'increase' the sale of
the home. Pushing 80, 12 years to cash in on its payback is non
descriptive. With the latest fiasco on todays market, who knows how
long it would take to sell, and should I so call benefit while living
there? Interesting, no one as yet has answered the gist of my
op....how does one find the age of such boilers?





Not as smart as people think. From an ecological point of view, saving oil
is a good thing. As a fiscal investment, for me to upgrade the boiler the
payback is about 12 years. I'm not in a hurry to upgrade.

"Noel" wrote in message

Interesting, no one as yet has answered the gist of my
op....how does one find the age of such boilers?


The installer probably wrote the date on the instruction manual.

Some industrial/commercial boilers will have the date on the nameplate.
Other than that, not much you can do. The manufacturere can give you a time
period that particular model was made, but it can easily span 20+ years.

On Jan 18, 9:17*pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

Why do you want to know, it might be only 70% effecient, todays
minimums are about 82% and you can go to 96.7% if you are smart. If
its that old and you live where heat is a big cost, get a net one now
and stop thinking about it. It will increase your homes value.

Not as smart as people think. *From an ecological point of view, saving oil
is a good thing. As a fiscal investment, for me to upgrade the boiler the
payback is about 12 years. *I'm not in a hurry to upgrade.

Ed, Wouldnt it be an investent if oil continues to go up as it has.
What about unforseen repairs on an old unit. What about overall
efficency, I think its called Energy Factor. I would think you might
have a payback in 6-8 years if present trends continue, there is no
reason they wont as things are going now. What is the true operating
efficency of an old unit, they take much longer to heat up to Steady
State efficency. They have alot more metal in the exchangers to heat
up. It might be near 80% when hot but getting there is the issue. An
example is my 1,000,000 btu Kiwanee NG steam boiler is 80% Steady
State efficency but if I replace it with a new 80% unit I might save
10-20% on NG since getting the Kiwanee to steam costs more than a new
unit since it holds more water and is big. Run numbers with these 3
changes, Energy cost increases, True efficency or Energy Factor, and
unforseen repairs. I think could cut your payback in half. Wouldnt
that be an investment, or am I wrong.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Noel" wrote in message

Interesting, no one as yet has answered the gist of my
op....how does one find the age of such boilers?


The installer probably wrote the date on the instruction manual.


Heh! Did they even HAVE instruction manuals forty years ago? If they did, I
imagine it looked like:

"To turn on, move switch to "ON" position. To turn off, turn switch to "OFF"
position."

Today, the manual would look like:

[snip 13 pages of warnings such as "Do not place head over flame" followed
by:

"To turn on, move switch to "ON" position. To turn off, turn switch to "OFF"
position."

In article ,
ransley says...

On Jan 18, 9:17=A0pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

Why do you want to know, it might be only 70% effecient, todays
minimums are about 82% and you can go to 96.7% if you are smart. If
its that old and you live where heat is a big cost, get a net one now
and stop thinking about it. It will increase your homes value.

Not as smart as people think. =A0From an ecological point of view, saving =
oil
is a good thing. As a fiscal investment, for me to upgrade the boiler the
payback is about 12 years. =A0I'm not in a hurry to upgrade.

Ed, Wouldnt it be an investent if oil continues to go up as it has.
What about unforseen repairs on an old unit. What about overall
efficency, I think its called Energy Factor. I would think you might
have a payback in 6-8 years if present trends continue, there is no
reason they wont as things are going now. What is the true operating
efficency of an old unit, they take much longer to heat up to Steady
State efficency. They have alot more metal in the exchangers to heat
up. It might be near 80% when hot but getting there is the issue. An
example is my 1,000,000 btu Kiwanee NG steam boiler is 80% Steady
State efficency but if I replace it with a new 80% unit I might save
10-20% on NG since getting the Kiwanee to steam costs more than a new
unit since it holds more water and is big. Run numbers with these 3
changes, Energy cost increases, True efficency or Energy Factor, and
unforseen repairs. I think could cut your payback in half. Wouldnt
that be an investment, or am I wrong.

I just went through all of this analysis and got estimates to replace my 18 year
old Burnham boiler with tankless coil water heating with a more efficient
system, and decided to sit on my old boiler a while longer. Many factors,
including the long payback (my boiler is fairly efficient), the main ones being:

1. In two or three years I'll be the only occupant most of the time - much
longer payback as I can be quite efficient as regards to usage

2. I could swing it financially but it would pretty much clear me out, and
other items (like replacing some old French doors - other windows and doors
already recently replaced) would probably give me better payback.

I was having some burner issues, that got fixed, all is working well, decided to
leave well enough alone.

It's a judgement call of course - like when and whether to trade in that 8 or 10
year old vehicle. It may hum away for many more car-payment-free years, or the
tranny may break down tomorrow at the most inopportune time.

But it's not so obvious that we all should be running around replacing ever
boiler.

Banty

"ransley" wrote in message

Ed, Wouldnt it be an investent if oil continues to go up as it has.
What about unforseen repairs on an old unit. What about overall
efficency, I think its called Energy Factor. I would think you might
have a payback in 6-8 years if present trends continue, there is no
reason they wont as things are going now. What is the true operating
efficency of an old unit, they take much longer to heat up to Steady
State efficency. They have alot more metal in the exchangers to heat
up. It might be near 80% when hot but getting there is the issue. An
example is my 1,000,000 btu Kiwanee NG steam boiler is 80% Steady
State efficency but if I replace it with a new 80% unit I might save
10-20% on NG since getting the Kiwanee to steam costs more than a new
unit since it holds more water and is big. Run numbers with these 3
changes, Energy cost increases, True efficency or Energy Factor, and
unforseen repairs. I think could cut your payback in half. Wouldnt
that be an investment, or am I wrong.


A new boiler will save me about 120 gallons of oil a year. Having it
installed will exceed $6500. Today I'm paying $3.09 so a gross savings of
$370 a year at today's price. That comes out to over 17 years. Factoring is
some price increases, it will come down some, thus the estimated 12 years.

Truth is, my boiler will probably have to be replaced or need major repairs
in the next few years so the question is, when do I do the replacement? I
just don't see the need to spend a lot of money today just for the potential
savings. As always, the lingering question is when? Next summer at a
leisurely pace? Or some bitter cold winter day when it dies? I can still
buy a lot of repairs for the annual cost of the replacement equipment.

Someone mentioned it would increase the value of the home. Yes, it will,
but not to the point of full payback. It is understood that a house will
have a working heater when you buy it so an older original will have a
slight knockdown, but will that be $2000 or $6500? I'd get a better return
putting that money into the bathrooms or kitchen. Besides, I have no plans
to move so I'm not using that in the decision making process.

Now, if the installer said I could pay it off in annual payments equal to
150 gallons of oil, I'd have a new boiler at no additional out of pocket.
I'd take that.

FWIW, I'm looking at having O2 trim installed on our boilers at work.
Projected savings is 2%, but we spent $220,000 for gas last years.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

On Jan 19, 4:39*pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

*Ed, Wouldnt it be an investent if oil continues to go up as it has.
What about unforseen repairs on an old unit. What about overall
efficency, I think its called Energy Factor. *I would think you might
have a payback in 6-8 years if present trends continue, there is no
reason they wont as things are going now. What is the true operating
efficency of an old unit, they take much longer to heat up to Steady
State efficency. They have alot more metal in the exchangers to heat
up. *It might be near 80% when hot but getting there is the issue. An
example is my 1,000,000 btu Kiwanee NG steam boiler is 80% Steady
State efficency but if I replace it with a new 80% unit I might save
10-20% on NG since getting the Kiwanee to steam costs more than a new
unit since it holds more water and is big. Run numbers with these 3
changes, Energy cost increases, True efficency or Energy Factor, and
unforseen repairs. *I think could cut your payback in half. Wouldnt
that be an investment, or am I wrong.

A new boiler will save me about 120 gallons of oil a year. *Having it
installed will exceed $6500. *Today I'm paying $3.09 so a gross savings of
$370 a year at today's price. *That comes out to over 17 years. Factoring is
some price increases, it will come down some, thus the estimated 12 years.

Truth is, my boiler will probably have to be replaced or need major repairs
in the next few years so the question is, when do I do the replacement? *I
just don't see the need to spend a lot of money today just for the potential
savings. *As always, the lingering question is when? *Next summer at a
leisurely pace? *Or some bitter cold winter day when it dies? *I can still
buy a lot of repairs for the annual cost of the replacement equipment.

Someone mentioned it would increase the value of the home. *Yes, it will,
but not to the point of full payback. *It is understood that a house will
have a working heater when you buy it so an older original will have a
slight knockdown, but will that be $2000 or $6500? I'd get a better return
putting that money into the bathrooms or kitchen. * Besides, I have no plans
to move so I'm not using that in the decision making process.

Now, if the installer said I could pay it off in annual payments equal to
150 gallons of oil, I'd have a new boiler at no additional out of pocket.
I'd take that.

FWIW, I'm looking at having O2 trim installed on our boilers at work.
Projected savings is 2%, but we spent $220,000 for gas last years.
--
Edhttp://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

EP What is 02 trim

"ransley" wrote in message

EP What is 02 trim

Oxygen trim. It chances the fuel mixture for maximum combustion by
regulating either the fuel or air input. There are sensors in the stack or
breeching to read the CO and CO2 and make adjustments accordingly. We have
two 125 HP boilers and to do both will be about $55,000.

We are considering it not so much to save money, but the EPS is regulating
our emissions from our manufacturing process. With the O2 trim we can use
the boilers as thermal oxidizers to reduce emissions.