This one really baffles me.
Have a Sears electric start snowblower about 8 years old w/5hp
Tecumseh.
Did some basic maintenence ..changed oil, fresh gas, new plug, cleaned
carb

Idle screw set at 1 1/2 turns, bowl screw at 2 1/2 turns
primer squirts into carb ...tank and carb were spotless before
dissassembly

Had it running for about 20 min when weather was above freezing, but
required playing (did NOT start without help) with throttle butterfly
by depressing govenor link to get it started.
It ran at full speed and idle smoothly ...shut it off

Now that it got to 20 degrees ..can't get it to even puff ...not w/ or
w/o choke, not idle or full speed, not even with starter fluid in plug
hole or into carb, not with a spoonfull of gas into plug hole. Ran it
dry, warmed up cylinder with heat gun, let stand overnight...nothing!

Have a very bright spark, compression at 135psi, and some gas droplets
spits out carb while cranking

The only variable that I am NOT comfortable with, is the solid state
module, which is a pain to get to ...it it possible that the retaining
screws of that unit have loosened and it therefore is off timing??
the only artifact I see is that the bright spark seems to be too many
hits for the speed of the engine cranking ie firing too often, not
just once per rotation? But that might just be my inaccurate
perception.

Did an exhaustive google and came up with nothing.
I would be appreciative if anyone responds who has seen/solved this
problem.

TIA,
Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

On Dec 5, 1:31 pm, scorman wrote:
This one really baffles me.
Have a Sears electric start snowblower about 8 years old w/5hp
Tecumseh.
Did some basic maintenence ..changed oil, fresh gas, new plug, cleaned
carb

Idle screw set at 1 1/2 turns, bowl screw at 2 1/2 turns
primer squirts into carb ...tank and carb were spotless before
dissassembly

Had it running for about 20 min when weather was above freezing, but
required playing (did NOT start without help) with throttle butterfly
by depressing govenor link to get it started.
It ran at full speed and idle smoothly ...shut it off

Now that it got to 20 degrees ..can't get it to even puff ...not w/ or
w/o choke, not idle or full speed, not even with starter fluid in plug
hole or into carb, not with a spoonfull of gas into plug hole. Ran it
dry, warmed up cylinder with heat gun, let stand overnight...nothing!

Have a very bright spark, compression at 135psi, and some gas droplets
spits out carb while cranking

The only variable that I am NOT comfortable with, is the solid state
module, which is a pain to get to ...it it possible that the retaining
screws of that unit have loosened and it therefore is off timing??
the only artifact I see is that the bright spark seems to be too many
hits for the speed of the engine cranking ie firing too often, not
just once per rotation? But that might just be my inaccurate
perception.

Did an exhaustive google and came up with nothing.
I would be appreciative if anyone responds who has seen/solved this
problem.

TIA,
Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

Gas spitting out the carb might be flooding, remove the plug when it
wont start to see if its wet, try starting it without choke or throttle

ransley wrote:
On Dec 5, 1:31 pm, scorman wrote:
This one really baffles me.
Have a Sears electric start snowblower about 8 years old w/5hp
Tecumseh.
Did some basic maintenence ..changed oil, fresh gas, new plug, cleaned
carb

Idle screw set at 1 1/2 turns, bowl screw at 2 1/2 turns
primer squirts into carb ...tank and carb were spotless before
dissassembly

Had it running for about 20 min when weather was above freezing, but
required playing (did NOT start without help) with throttle butterfly
by depressing govenor link to get it started.
It ran at full speed and idle smoothly ...shut it off

Now that it got to 20 degrees ..can't get it to even puff ...not w/ or
w/o choke, not idle or full speed, not even with starter fluid in plug
hole or into carb, not with a spoonfull of gas into plug hole. Ran it
dry, warmed up cylinder with heat gun, let stand overnight...nothing!

Have a very bright spark, compression at 135psi, and some gas droplets
spits out carb while cranking

The only variable that I am NOT comfortable with, is the solid state
module, which is a pain to get to ...it it possible that the retaining
screws of that unit have loosened and it therefore is off timing??
the only artifact I see is that the bright spark seems to be too many
hits for the speed of the engine cranking ie firing too often, not
just once per rotation? But that might just be my inaccurate
perception.

Did an exhaustive google and came up with nothing.
I would be appreciative if anyone responds who has seen/solved this
problem.

TIA,
Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

Gas spitting out the carb might be flooding, remove the plug when it
wont start to see if its wet, try starting it without choke or throttle

Agree...if is spark but still won't even fire w/ starter (bad idea for
these small engines, btw, except for _very_ tiny amounts) there's some
aux reason for not firing and a fouled plug would be one possible one.

Other ideas would involve where did you check spark? Between wire and
outside (connector) to plug or did you pull plug and check spark at plug
electrode? A bad plug can fail to provide good spark even if have good
spark going in.

--

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:59:49 -0600, dpb wrote:

ransley wrote:
On Dec 5, 1:31 pm, scorman wrote:
This one really baffles me.
Have a Sears electric start snowblower about 8 years old w/5hp
Tecumseh.
Did some basic maintenence ..changed oil, fresh gas, new plug, cleaned
carb

Idle screw set at 1 1/2 turns, bowl screw at 2 1/2 turns
primer squirts into carb ...tank and carb were spotless before
dissassembly

Had it running for about 20 min when weather was above freezing, but
required playing (did NOT start without help) with throttle butterfly
by depressing govenor link to get it started.
It ran at full speed and idle smoothly ...shut it off

Now that it got to 20 degrees ..can't get it to even puff ...not w/ or
w/o choke, not idle or full speed, not even with starter fluid in plug
hole or into carb, not with a spoonfull of gas into plug hole. Ran it
dry, warmed up cylinder with heat gun, let stand overnight...nothing!

Have a very bright spark, compression at 135psi, and some gas droplets
spits out carb while cranking

The only variable that I am NOT comfortable with, is the solid state
module, which is a pain to get to ...it it possible that the retaining
screws of that unit have loosened and it therefore is off timing??
the only artifact I see is that the bright spark seems to be too many
hits for the speed of the engine cranking ie firing too often, not
just once per rotation? But that might just be my inaccurate
perception.

Did an exhaustive google and came up with nothing.
I would be appreciative if anyone responds who has seen/solved this
problem.

TIA,
Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

Gas spitting out the carb might be flooding, remove the plug when it
wont start to see if its wet, try starting it without choke or throttle

Agree...if is spark but still won't even fire w/ starter (bad idea for
these small engines, btw, except for _very_ tiny amounts) there's some
aux reason for not firing and a fouled plug would be one possible one.

Other ideas would involve where did you check spark? Between wire and
outside (connector) to plug or did you pull plug and check spark at plug
electrode? A bad plug can fail to provide good spark even if have good
spark going in.

Yes and even a poor gap setting.

Check your plug color here*

http://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingg...colorchart.htm

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:31:46 -0800, scorman wrote:

This one really baffles me.
Have a Sears electric start snowblower about 8 years old w/5hp
Tecumseh.
Did some basic maintenence ..changed oil, fresh gas, new plug, cleaned
carb

Idle screw set at 1 1/2 turns, bowl screw at 2 1/2 turns
primer squirts into carb ...tank and carb were spotless before
dissassembly

Had it running for about 20 min when weather was above freezing, but
required playing (did NOT start without help) with throttle butterfly
by depressing govenor link to get it started.
It ran at full speed and idle smoothly ...shut it off

Now that it got to 20 degrees ..can't get it to even puff ...not w/ or
w/o choke, not idle or full speed, not even with starter fluid in plug
hole or into carb, not with a spoonfull of gas into plug hole. Ran it
dry, warmed up cylinder with heat gun, let stand overnight...nothing!

Have a very bright spark, compression at 135psi, and some gas droplets
spits out carb while cranking

The only variable that I am NOT comfortable with, is the solid state
module, which is a pain to get to ...it it possible that the retaining
screws of that unit have loosened and it therefore is off timing??
the only artifact I see is that the bright spark seems to be too many
hits for the speed of the engine cranking ie firing too often, not
just once per rotation? But that might just be my inaccurate
perception.

Did an exhaustive google and came up with nothing.
I would be appreciative if anyone responds who has seen/solved this
problem.


Drain the gas or shut the fuel supply off until no droplets of gas spit
out the carb and see if it starts. Pull the plug then and see if it is dry
and has spark. Then try some starting fluid. Those things are easy to
flood as I have a Toro with a Tecumseh that floods easily. Usually just a
couple pumps of the primer while choked and starts on first pull no matter
what temp it is.

I doubt if this is your problem but down here in south Texas we have dirt
daubers (a kind of wasp) that build nests in the mufflers of lawn tractor,
weed eater and other small engines and you will search for days trying to
find out why they won't start before you figure it out.


--
JC from Gnat Flats

Thanks so far for the few replies, so I'll clarify a few open items:

Spark was checked by removing the plug and grounding the electrode and
observing the spark on the plug.

There is no color to spark plug ..it is new and clean ..has a small
amount of wetness when removed.

I have NOT attempt (yet) to drain the fuel and then start it dry, but
I did remove the plug, let the starter spin it around and then blew
hot air from heat gun into cylinder at diff valve open settings ...saw
vapors leaving muffler which seems unobstructed

When putting a poonful of gas into cylinder ...muffler exit became wet

Flooding is a possibility, which is why I took apart the carb to check
the float and valve ..everything looked pristine ...used carb cleaner
to blow out all orifices ...wouldn't screwing in (bottoming) both the
low idle jet screw and float jet screw cut off all fuel??

Still looking for someone who has had solid state ignition module
problems for comparison

Stew

On Dec 5, 4:14 pm, scorman wrote:
Thanks so far for the few replies, so I'll clarify a few open items:

Spark was checked by removing the plug and grounding the electrode and
observing the spark on the plug.

There is no color to spark plug ..it is new and clean ..has a small
amount of wetness when removed.

I have NOT attempt (yet) to drain the fuel and then start it dry, but
I did remove the plug, let the starter spin it around and then blew
hot air from heat gun into cylinder at diff valve open settings ...saw
vapors leaving muffler which seems unobstructed

When putting a poonful of gas into cylinder ...muffler exit became wet

Flooding is a possibility, which is why I took apart the carb to check
the float and valve ..everything looked pristine ...used carb cleaner
to blow out all orifices ...wouldn't screwing in (bottoming) both the
low idle jet screw and float jet screw cut off all fuel??

Still looking for someone who has had solid state ignition module
problems for comparison

Stew

Any wetness on the plug indicates Flooding, just because you bought a
new plug does not mean a stockboy or person did not drop it, cracking
the insulator , ruining it. It sounds like you are flooding the motor,
but im deaf at this distance, i cant hear anything. Try Either on a
dry plug, a motor that has set for hours.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
It sounds like you are flooding the motor,
but im deaf at this distance, i cant hear anything.

Boy that sure brought back memories. My Dad was a Buick dealer back in the
50s, 60s and 70s and we had a used car manager that used to really have fun
with people that would call in and ask what their car was worth. He would
have them answering questions for about 5 minutes, seat torn?, headliner
good?, paint smooth?, etc., and after all of that he would say, "now have
someone go outside and start it up and you hold the phone out the window and
let me hear it run"

Thanks for the memory.

JC

A plug can give a good spark when removed and just grounded. A plug can
brake down when under compression. Invest in a new plug, it might be a cheap
fix.
"scorman" wrote in message
...
Thanks so far for the few replies, so I'll clarify a few open items:

Spark was checked by removing the plug and grounding the electrode and
observing the spark on the plug.

There is no color to spark plug ..it is new and clean ..has a small
amount of wetness when removed.

I have NOT attempt (yet) to drain the fuel and then start it dry, but
I did remove the plug, let the starter spin it around and then blew
hot air from heat gun into cylinder at diff valve open settings ...saw
vapors leaving muffler which seems unobstructed

When putting a poonful of gas into cylinder ...muffler exit became wet

Flooding is a possibility, which is why I took apart the carb to check
the float and valve ..everything looked pristine ...used carb cleaner
to blow out all orifices ...wouldn't screwing in (bottoming) both the
low idle jet screw and float jet screw cut off all fuel??

Still looking for someone who has had solid state ignition module
problems for comparison

Stew

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:57:36 GMT, "JC"
wrote:


"ransley" wrote in message
...
It sounds like you are flooding the motor,
but im deaf at this distance, i cant hear anything.

Boy that sure brought back memories. My Dad was a Buick dealer back in the
50s, 60s and 70s and we had a used car manager that used to really have fun
with people that would call in and ask what their car was worth. He would
have them answering questions for about 5 minutes, seat torn?, headliner
good?, paint smooth?, etc., and after all of that he would say, "now have
someone go outside and start it up and you hold the phone out the window and
let me hear it run"

Thanks for the memory.

JC

That's funny, right there!!

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:55:36 -0330, "jacko"
wrote:

A plug can give a good spark when removed and just grounded. A plug can
brake down when under compression. Invest in a new plug, it might be a cheap
fix.

Clear me up here. A plug under compression; brakes down!?

Exactly. I personally have seen this many times. Especially with new
plugs.

s


"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:55:36 -0330, "jacko"
wrote:

A plug can give a good spark when removed and just grounded. A plug can
brake down when under compression. Invest in a new plug, it might be a
cheap
fix.

Clear me up here. A plug under compression; brakes down!?

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:55:36 -0330, "jacko"
wrote:

A plug can give a good spark when removed and just grounded. A plug can
brake down when under compression. Invest in a new plug, it might be a
cheap
fix.

Clear me up here. A plug under compression; brakes down!?

I have seen this phenomenon several times. All in altered states of
consciousness, though.

Steve

"scorman" wrote in message
...
This one really baffles me.
Have a Sears electric start snowblower about 8 years old w/5hp
Tecumseh.
Did some basic maintenence ..changed oil, fresh gas, new plug, cleaned
carb

Idle screw set at 1 1/2 turns, bowl screw at 2 1/2 turns
primer squirts into carb ...tank and carb were spotless before
dissassembly

Had it running for about 20 min when weather was above freezing, but
required playing (did NOT start without help) with throttle butterfly
by depressing govenor link to get it started.
It ran at full speed and idle smoothly ...shut it off

Now that it got to 20 degrees ..can't get it to even puff ...not w/ or
w/o choke, not idle or full speed, not even with starter fluid in plug
hole or into carb, not with a spoonfull of gas into plug hole. Ran it
dry, warmed up cylinder with heat gun, let stand overnight...nothing!

Have a very bright spark, compression at 135psi, and some gas droplets
spits out carb while cranking

The only variable that I am NOT comfortable with, is the solid state
module, which is a pain to get to ...it it possible that the retaining
screws of that unit have loosened and it therefore is off timing??
the only artifact I see is that the bright spark seems to be too many
hits for the speed of the engine cranking ie firing too often, not
just once per rotation? But that might just be my inaccurate
perception.

Did an exhaustive google and came up with nothing.
I would be appreciative if anyone responds who has seen/solved this
problem.

TIA,
Stew Corman from sunny Endicott
When you have everything for the engine to run but it doesn't, it is likely
caused by an obstructed exhaust. That can also cause gas to be blown back
out of the carburetor. It is pretty unlikely that your ignition system is
bad or off tim;ing, but the suggestion to try a new spark plug, even if the
present one is sparking, is valid.

Don Young

"Don Young" wrote

It is pretty unlikely that your ignition system is
bad or off tim;ing, but the suggestion to try a new spark plug, even if
the present one is sparking, is valid.

Don Young

I had a guy come to do some concrete work. He had a nice mechanical trowel
with a Honda engine. After pouring the concrete, they couldn't get the
trowler to work. He gave up and started to trowel it by hand, which was
1,000 sf.

It had spark, it had gas. I poured a little in the intake. No luck.

I went and pulled a Honda plug from my mower, and it was a match. I put the
plug in, and it took off on the first pull. The guy was just about in tears
thanking me. The concrete came out okay.

Always keep a couple of extra plugs. You can mess with them and clean them
up with a pin in the recesses of the parts on a cold winter evening. But
when it's GOT to run, it's nice to have a quick replacement that you KNOW is
good.

Steve

How thick of oil did you use?
Lou

Wish I could offer you more on this. Maybe it's just an old wives tale
however I have heard of this many times. Maybe someone can enlighten us as
to the technical reason for this, or not.
"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:55:36 -0330, "jacko"
wrote:

A plug can give a good spark when removed and just grounded. A plug can
brake down when under compression. Invest in a new plug, it might be a
cheap
fix.

Clear me up here. A plug under compression; brakes down!?

Kudos to the team !

Got it running after letting it stay idle for two days ..AND guess
what it was ??
the sparkplug!

Not to belabor the point, but this was a real fooler ..
the original plug still gives a great spark when grounding the
tip ...HOWEVER, when I tried same experiment with that plug on another
electric start snowblower ....NOTHING! ..couldn't just swap the plugs
because it was a diff plug, but a working lawnmower used the same
plug ..swapped that one and it gave a strong spark on the second
snowblower ...put lawnmower plug into the malfunctioning
snowblower ...and off it went

Thanks to all who contributed to my dilema.

BTW, years ago I had seen a garage tester for spark plugs that
connected to the air compressor with a pressure gage ...you could see
plugs that worked under atmospheric pressure, but at 120psi, some did
and some didn't ..so, this is NOT speculation, but a fact.

Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:08:30 -0800 (PST), scorman
wrote:

Kudos to the team !

Got it running after letting it stay idle for two days ..AND guess
what it was ??
the sparkplug!

Not to belabor the point, but this was a real fooler ..
the original plug still gives a great spark when grounding the
tip ...HOWEVER, when I tried same experiment with that plug on another
electric start snowblower ....NOTHING! ..couldn't just swap the plugs
because it was a diff plug, but a working lawnmower used the same
plug ..swapped that one and it gave a strong spark on the second
snowblower ...put lawnmower plug into the malfunctioning
snowblower ...and off it went

Thanks to all who contributed to my dilema.

BTW, years ago I had seen a garage tester for spark plugs that
connected to the air compressor with a pressure gage ...you could see
plugs that worked under atmospheric pressure, but at 120psi, some did
and some didn't ..so, this is NOT speculation, but a fact.

Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

Years ago there was a tool (in real gas stations with a two bay
service) for cleaning spark plugs, essentially a small sand blaster.

One connected the air line, inserted the plug into a rubber
collar/washer(?-) and with a few short blast by pressing the button.

Never saw a tester connected to compressor.

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:08:18 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

Under compression whatever contaminants that are fouling the plug get
pressed against the insulator and plug tip making a pathway for the spark
to ground instead of across the tip. Having raced 2 stroke dirt bikes back
in my 20's I've seen this many times. Anyway that's my theory FWIW.

I read too much into _failing under compression_.

I have experienced a bad plug right out of the box...before pre-gapped
plugs. There was no time for fouling as the plug was new. It had to be
replaced immediately after install.

I prefer fouled plug term over failing. Just me

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 16:39:09 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:02:12 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:08:18 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

Under compression whatever contaminants that are fouling the plug get
pressed against the insulator and plug tip making a pathway for the spark
to ground instead of across the tip. Having raced 2 stroke dirt bikes back
in my 20's I've seen this many times. Anyway that's my theory FWIW.

I read too much into _failing under compression_.

I have experienced a bad plug right out of the box...before pre-gapped
plugs. There was no time for fouling as the plug was new. It had to be
replaced immediately after install.

I prefer fouled plug term over failing. Just me

Well I have seen plugs that would provide the same intensity spark of a
new plug perform poorly when installed. Keep in mind that I posted my
theory on what happens and not something that was scientifically proven.
Glad to see tho that the OP took your advice and changed the plug.

I only "contributed" to the OP "dilema.".

)