I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!

I recently came across many power tool "systems" where
you buy the battery units separate and they can be
slipped on various hand tools such as drill, chop saw,
and hand vacs!

Curious which brand/model is the best value in terms of
light weight, stamina, etc?

Is Li-Ion better than say NiMH?

Any brands to consider such as Black and Decker new GPX
system? Milwaukee's?

I'm only buying the hand vac and battery system for
now..... but since I have no other power tools "might"
need the drill or saw at some point.

On Oct 17, 4:45 pm, wrote:
I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!

I recently came across many power tool "systems" where
you buy the battery units separate and they can be
slipped on various hand tools such as drill, chop saw,
and hand vacs!

Curious which brand/model is the best value in terms of
light weight, stamina, etc?

Is Li-Ion better than say NiMH?

Any brands to consider such as Black and Decker new GPX
system? Milwaukee's?

I'm only buying the hand vac and battery system for
now..... but since I have no other power tools "might"
need the drill or saw at some point.

I bought a black and Decker hedge trimmer, probably the GPX, it did
not cut at all it just chopped at branches. Then I decided to read
Consumer Reports and it said the B&D did not cut well. B&D in my
opinion is and has been junk for years, I returned it. Ryobi is
better, Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita have always been tops.

I bought a black and Decker hedge trimmer, probably the GPX, it did
not cut at all it just chopped at branches. Then I decided to read
Consumer Reports and it said the B&D did not cut well. B&D in my
opinion is and has been junk for years, I returned it. Ryobi is
better, Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita have always been tops.

Thanks

Will forget abt BnD then

writes:
I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!

Not necessarily. If you live in a decent-size city, there are probably
several places that rebuild battery packs from cells. They weld the
cells with straps in the same shape as the original pack. Just take
apart the DustBuster, take the battery pack to the rebuilder, and pick
up a new pack in a few days. I've replaced the battery pack in my
DustBuster at least once this way.

(This works for NiCd and NiMH cells; I don't know if LiIon batteries
can be rebuilt the same way. NiMH battery packs require more protective
electronics, and the electronics are more closely matched to the cells).

However, the real problem with a battery-powered DustBuster is that you
hardly ever use it. If you leave it charging forever in its wall
bracket, this kills the batteries prematurely. If you don't keep it
on charge, the batteries are always dead when you want to use it since
it's been months since the last use. I've read about people using a
timer to power the charger for an hour every day, but that seems like
too much work for a DustBuster, which really won't pick up that much
anyway.

So a vacuum that uses the same batteries as your portable drill is more
likely to be useful (assuming you use the drill somewhat often).

Dave

wrote in :

I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!

I had the local DeWalt service center replace the built-in NiCd pack (after
10 years of use)in my B&D Dustbuster,it was cheaper than buying a new DB.
I did NOT "have to throw the whole thing away".
I still have it,still use it.


I recently came across many power tool "systems" where
you buy the battery units separate and they can be
slipped on various hand tools such as drill, chop saw,
and hand vacs!

Curious which brand/model is the best value in terms of
light weight, stamina, etc?

Is Li-Ion better than say NiMH?]

Yes. no self-discharge.You can store it for 6 months and have it ready to
use without having to recharge it first or replace a failed battery pack.

Any brands to consider such as Black and Decker new GPX
system? Milwaukee's?

Makita,other Name brands too.
I'd not pick Black and Decker cordless power tools,myself.


I'm only buying the hand vac and battery system for
now..... but since I have no other power tools "might"
need the drill or saw at some point.


A drill/driver is useful. Maybe a circ saw.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

(Dave Martindale) wrote in
:

writes:
I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!

Not necessarily. If you live in a decent-size city, there are probably
several places that rebuild battery packs from cells. They weld the
cells with straps in the same shape as the original pack. Just take
apart the DustBuster, take the battery pack to the rebuilder, and pick
up a new pack in a few days. I've replaced the battery pack in my
DustBuster at least once this way.

(This works for NiCd and NiMH cells; I don't know if LiIon batteries
can be rebuilt the same way. NiMH battery packs require more protective
electronics, and the electronics are more closely matched to the cells).

Li-Ion are even worse,they use microprocessor ICs built into the packs to
monitor and control charge.But I suspect the competent battery rebuilders
will be able to rebuild those packs,too,once they become more commonplace.

However, the real problem with a battery-powered DustBuster is that you
hardly ever use it. If you leave it charging forever in its wall
bracket, this kills the batteries prematurely.

WRONG.It's cells are the type expressly designed to be left on trickle
charge when not in use.(at least the original DB,not the VersaPack models.)
I believe it even says so in the DB manual.

BTW,DigiKey sells that type of NiCd cell,designed for continuous trickle
charge.

If you don't keep it
on charge, the batteries are always dead when you want to use it since
it's been months since the last use. I've read about people using a
timer to power the charger for an hour every day, but that seems like
too much work for a DustBuster, which really won't pick up that much
anyway.

So a vacuum that uses the same batteries as your portable drill is more
likely to be useful (assuming you use the drill somewhat often).

Dave




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Oct 17, 9:10 pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
(Dave Martindale) wrote :





writes:
I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!

Not necessarily. If you live in a decent-size city, there are probably
several places that rebuild battery packs from cells. They weld the
cells with straps in the same shape as the original pack. Just take
apart the DustBuster, take the battery pack to the rebuilder, and pick
up a new pack in a few days. I've replaced the battery pack in my
DustBuster at least once this way.

(This works for NiCd and NiMH cells; I don't know if LiIon batteries
can be rebuilt the same way. NiMH battery packs require more protective
electronics, and the electronics are more closely matched to the cells).

Li-Ion are even worse,they use microprocessor ICs built into the packs to
monitor and control charge.But I suspect the competent battery rebuilders
will be able to rebuild those packs,too,once they become more commonplace.



However, the real problem with a battery-powered DustBuster is that you
hardly ever use it. If you leave it charging forever in its wall
bracket, this kills the batteries prematurely.

WRONG.It's cells are the type expressly designed to be left on trickle
charge when not in use.(at least the original DB,not the VersaPack models.)
I believe it even says so in the DB manual.

BTW,DigiKey sells that type of NiCd cell,designed for continuous trickle
charge.

If you don't keep it
on charge, the batteries are always dead when you want to use it since
it's been months since the last use. I've read about people using a
timer to power the charger for an hour every day, but that seems like
too much work for a DustBuster, which really won't pick up that much
anyway.

So a vacuum that uses the same batteries as your portable drill is more
likely to be useful (assuming you use the drill somewhat often).

Dave

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sure the manual says its ok to leave it in the charger, thats bs, you
might get 5 yrs of life that way, I have 15 and 18 yr old Makita packs
that work a bit, Heat ruins any cell eventualy as over charging
generates heat

According to ransley :

Sure the manual says its ok to leave it in the charger, thats bs, you
might get 5 yrs of life that way, I have 15 and 18 yr old Makita packs
that work a bit, Heat ruins any cell eventualy as over charging
generates heat

http://www.powerstream.com/tech.html, then check out the "How
to Charge Batteries" should help dispell a lot of myths.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Dave Martindale :
writes:
I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!

Not necessarily. If you live in a decent-size city, there are probably
several places that rebuild battery packs from cells. They weld the
cells with straps in the same shape as the original pack. Just take
apart the DustBuster, take the battery pack to the rebuilder, and pick
up a new pack in a few days. I've replaced the battery pack in my
DustBuster at least once this way.

Or, buy the cells and do the replacement yourself. While the
strap welders are more convenient, you can do the same with
a soldering gun, or a sufficiently heavy duty soldering iron.
The one trick is to scrape/roughen the soldering points on the
battery with a dremel or sand paper or emery stick before
soldering, and don't take so long that the battery gets hot.

About 2 months ago, I rebuilt:

1) a dustbuster (3 cell)
2) 4.8v makita drill (quite old with an internal pack)
3) 2.4v electric screwdriver (2 cell)

Previously I had a battery rebuilder rebuild a 12v, 10 cell non-XRP
DeWalt (DeWalt manufactured, rebranded device, 1.7AH) pack. I have
at least one more to do over the next little while - this one I
may do myself.

One of the advantages of doing this is that you can pick better
batteries. All of these tools are running _better_ than new.

The cells I'm using are 2.2AH. The Dewalt was 1.7AH originally.

Note: while battery packs in things like Dewalts _look_ like C
cells, they're actually not. "SubC" ("SC") seems to be the most
common.

Things get confusing when you realize how many standards
there a

http://www.powerstream.com/Size.htm
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Oct 18, 8:00 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to Dave Martindale :

writes:
I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!
Not necessarily. If you live in a decent-size city, there are probably
several places that rebuild battery packs from cells. They weld the
cells with straps in the same shape as the original pack. Just take
apart the DustBuster, take the battery pack to the rebuilder, and pick
up a new pack in a few days. I've replaced the battery pack in my
DustBuster at least once this way.

Or, buy the cells and do the replacement yourself. While the
strap welders are more convenient, you can do the same with
a soldering gun, or a sufficiently heavy duty soldering iron.
The one trick is to scrape/roughen the soldering points on the
battery with a dremel or sand paper or emery stick before
soldering, and don't take so long that the battery gets hot.

About 2 months ago, I rebuilt:

1) a dustbuster (3 cell)
2) 4.8v makita drill (quite old with an internal pack)
3) 2.4v electric screwdriver (2 cell)

Previously I had a battery rebuilder rebuild a 12v, 10 cell non-XRP
DeWalt (DeWalt manufactured, rebranded device, 1.7AH) pack. I have
at least one more to do over the next little while - this one I
may do myself.

One of the advantages of doing this is that you can pick better
batteries. All of these tools are running _better_ than new.

The cells I'm using are 2.2AH. The Dewalt was 1.7AH originally.

Note: while battery packs in things like Dewalts _look_ like C
cells, they're actually not. "SubC" ("SC") seems to be the most
common.

Things get confusing when you realize how many standards
there a

http://www.powerstream.com/Size.htm
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris I did look at that site, I still believe even from what they
said heat is being generated, and damaging the cell, since the
dustbuster is not being trickle charged

According to ransley :

Chris I did look at that site, I still believe even from what they
said heat is being generated, and damaging the cell, since the
dustbuster is not being trickle charged

Heat is always produced if current is going through it. The
question is how much, and how much the cell can tolerate it.

Or, in other words, is a continuous .01C trickle charge when
the place where it is at 20C going to do as much damage as
letting the battery sit on a window sill at 35C? No.

That seems sarcastic, but it's not intended to be, just pointing
out that the fact you do put a little heat in the battery via
trickle charge, it's not going to be any different than the same
amount of heat introduced any other way.

Unless the trickle charger makes the battery noticably warm,
it's going to make relatively little difference. At least with
Nicds.

Continuous trickle charge matters more with NiMH and Lithium (note
the remarks about hydrogen generation on NiMH).
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

(Chris Lewis) wrote in
:

According to ransley :

Chris I did look at that site, I still believe even from what they
said heat is being generated, and damaging the cell, since the
dustbuster is not being trickle charged

Heat is always produced if current is going through it. The
question is how much, and how much the cell can tolerate it.

Or, in other words, is a continuous .01C trickle charge when
the place where it is at 20C going to do as much damage as
letting the battery sit on a window sill at 35C? No.

That seems sarcastic, but it's not intended to be, just pointing
out that the fact you do put a little heat in the battery via
trickle charge, it's not going to be any different than the same
amount of heat introduced any other way.

Unless the trickle charger makes the battery noticably warm,
it's going to make relatively little difference. At least with
Nicds.

Continuous trickle charge matters more with NiMH and Lithium (note
the remarks about hydrogen generation on NiMH).

yet 1-hour fast chargers make NiCd packs quite warm,and those packs last
far longer than trickle charged packs. The heat only builds up in the last
part of the charge,BTW.That is how many chargers decide when to cut off the
charge.Other fast chargers use the "knee" voltage to detect a full charge
for NiCds.
NiMH fast chargers must use the deltaV/deltaT method of charge
detection,there's no voltage "knee" in NiMH cells.

trickle chargers are just simple wallwart transformers and not IC charge
controlled,simply X ma for Y time(usually at or less than 1/10C
rate),allowing for under or over charging of the pack,shortening it's life.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

One tip on DeWalt 9.6V drill packs. Wal-Mart sells the B&D packs for
less than $25. You need to cut the "keys" to fit drill and charger,
but they work fine.

According to :
One tip on DeWalt 9.6V drill packs. Wal-Mart sells the B&D packs for
less than $25. You need to cut the "keys" to fit drill and charger,
but they work fine.

Something similar but slightly with DW 12V and B&D "firestorm" 12V packs
(in a rebadged product). The keying is identical. The difference is that
the B&D packs exposes the shell of the battery in the "stem" of the pack,
and the B&D charger has a sensor contact that makes contact with it.
The DW doesn't have this.

The B&D charger won't charge the DW packs, but the DW charger
will do both. It became a bit of a nuisance when I had one of
the B&D packs rebuilt, and they didn't shave the cardboard off
the shell for the B&D charger contact. I could shave it off myself,
but so far I've not needed to.

[The B&D charger is _much_ heavier than the DW - the B&D has
a big transformer. The DW has a switching power supply, so it's
an itty-bitty toroid.]
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.