I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling out sheetrock,
wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be "bloomed clean" and
"disposed", and for the most part it is, and I don't have a problem with
that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet rock pulled
down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling removed from concrete block
walls, there are tons of staples, nails, screws still on the furring strip,
or studs or concrete walls. They cannot stay there if I hire someone to
hang new sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut them off. I would
assume they should have been removed as part of demolition, right? It is
not explicitely stated in the contract but I wonder if this is typical or
usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8 inches or so,
and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to take them out? Should this
be included as part of demo? I would think so but I thought I asked before
I complain about it.

Thanks,

MC

On Sep 7, 8:12 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling out sheetrock,
wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be "bloomed clean" and
"disposed", and for the most part it is, and I don't have a problem with
that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet rock pulled
down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling removed from concrete block
walls, there are tons of staples, nails, screws still on the furring strip,
or studs or concrete walls. They cannot stay there if I hire someone to
hang new sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut them off. I would
assume they should have been removed as part of demolition, right? It is
not explicitely stated in the contract but I wonder if this is typical or
usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8 inches or so,
and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to take them out? Should this
be included as part of demo? I would think so but I thought I asked before
I complain about it.

Thanks,

MC

I have done a few demo contracts, and if I was leading the job, I
would make the assumption that pulling the nails is part of the demo.
What is standard? Who knows. I really doubt there is 200 years worth
of case law that would give you guidance on this issue. It would have
been nice to have this spelled out in a contract, but here in the real
world, a lot is left off of contracts. Drawing up a contract that
spells out every single thing would practically be as much work as the
job itself. That is why contracts have such terms as "workmanlike
manner" and lawyers use terms such as "standard of the trade". IMO
pulling nails would be part of the demo contract.

I would suggest you call your demo guy, and nicely ask if he could
send someone back to pull the nails. If you haven't paid him you have
some pretty good leverage. I guess if he refuses and ****es you off,
you could go after him in small claims court, though it would be a
hell of a lot easier to just pull the nails and get over it. This
sort of thing is all part of the joy of general contracting.

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...
I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling out
sheetrock, wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be "bloomed clean"
and "disposed", and for the most part it is, and I don't have a problem
with that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet rock pulled
down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling removed from concrete
block walls, there are tons of staples, nails, screws still on the furring
strip, or studs or concrete walls. They cannot stay there if I hire
someone to hang new sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut them
off. I would assume they should have been removed as part of demolition,
right? It is not explicitely stated in the contract but I wonder if this
is typical or usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8 inches or
so, and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to take them out? Should
this be included as part of demo? I would think so but I thought I asked
before I complain about it.

Thanks,

MC


Let me clarify the situation further. This is not a confrontation between
me and the contractor. I am merely asking questions and doing homework
before I ask him. He has not refused to remove them, I just wanted to make
sure removal of them is standard. Yes I failed to state this in the
contract, but I incorrectly assumed if sheetrock goes the nails and screws
go, my bad.

Here are a few pictures so it is crystal clear what I am talking about:

Ceiling sheet rock removed:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010313.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010312.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010314.jpg

see many of the staples and screws still have bits of sheetrock with them.

Here is a view of some of the framing with the door jamb and the rough
opening removed. Apparently some of the lumber were nailed from the other
side of the sister studs, so we got long nails sticking out:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010322.jpg

Is it reasonable to expect those to be removed?

No it is not stated in the contract, so if it's not spec'ed then it's not
covered, then obviously I made a bad assumption and a back breaking lesson
if I have to do it myself.

Thanks!

MC

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 21:11:37 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:


"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
. ..
I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling out
sheetrock, wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be "bloomed clean"
and "disposed", and for the most part it is, and I don't have a problem
with that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet rock pulled
down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling removed from concrete
block walls, there are tons of staples, nails, screws still on the furring
strip, or studs or concrete walls. They cannot stay there if I hire
someone to hang new sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut them
off. I would assume they should have been removed as part of demolition,
right? It is not explicitely stated in the contract but I wonder if this
is typical or usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8 inches or
so, and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to take them out? Should
this be included as part of demo? I would think so but I thought I asked
before I complain about it.

Thanks,

MC


Let me clarify the situation further. This is not a confrontation between
me and the contractor. I am merely asking questions and doing homework
before I ask him. He has not refused to remove them, I just wanted to make
sure removal of them is standard. Yes I failed to state this in the
contract, but I incorrectly assumed if sheetrock goes the nails and screws
go, my bad.

Here are a few pictures so it is crystal clear what I am talking about:

Ceiling sheet rock removed:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010313.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010312.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010314.jpg

see many of the staples and screws still have bits of sheetrock with them.

Here is a view of some of the framing with the door jamb and the rough
opening removed. Apparently some of the lumber were nailed from the other
side of the sister studs, so we got long nails sticking out:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010322.jpg

Is it reasonable to expect those to be removed?

No it is not stated in the contract, so if it's not spec'ed then it's not
covered, then obviously I made a bad assumption and a back breaking lesson
if I have to do it myself.

Thanks!

MC

Trying to follow the thread, you mentioned you visited the site
frequently... This would've been a perfect time to bring it up while
the workers/boss was there. Saves him time and effort.

Why would you remove the RO? (changing a wall?) I'm just a DIY person,
but those headers don't seem to have enough support. Did you go too
far in lumber removal - too expose the header nails?

BTW, protect that wire!

--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."

On Sep 8, 10:54 pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 21:11:37 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:







"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
. ..
I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling out
sheetrock, wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be "bloomed clean"
and "disposed", and for the most part it is, and I don't have a problem
with that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet rock pulled
down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling removed from concrete
block walls, there are tons of staples, nails, screws still on the furring
strip, or studs or concrete walls. They cannot stay there if I hire
someone to hang new sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut them
off. I would assume they should have been removed as part of demolition,
right? It is not explicitely stated in the contract but I wonder if this
is typical or usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8 inches or
so, and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to take them out? Should
this be included as part of demo? I would think so but I thought I asked
before I complain about it.

Thanks,

MC

Let me clarify the situation further. This is not a confrontation between
me and the contractor. I am merely asking questions and doing homework
before I ask him. He has not refused to remove them, I just wanted to make
sure removal of them is standard. Yes I failed to state this in the
contract, but I incorrectly assumed if sheetrock goes the nails and screws
go, my bad.

Here are a few pictures so it is crystal clear what I am talking about:

Ceiling sheet rock removed:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010313.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010312.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010314.jpg

see many of the staples and screws still have bits of sheetrock with them.

Here is a view of some of the framing with the door jamb and the rough
opening removed. Apparently some of the lumber were nailed from the other
side of the sister studs, so we got long nails sticking out:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010322.jpg

Is it reasonable to expect those to be removed?

No it is not stated in the contract, so if it's not spec'ed then it's not
covered, then obviously I made a bad assumption and a back breaking lesson
if I have to do it myself.

Thanks!

MC

Trying to follow the thread, you mentioned you visited the site
frequently... This would've been a perfect time to bring it up while
the workers/boss was there. Saves him time and effort.

Why would you remove the RO? (changing a wall?) I'm just a DIY person,
but those headers don't seem to have enough support. Did you go too
far in lumber removal - too expose the header nails?

BTW, protect that wire!

--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The interesting thing in this thread is that no one has answered the
actual question. And that is if anyone has had similar demo work
done, if it's not specifically called out in the contract, did it
include removal of the sheetrock nails, screws, etc that are on the
stud faces?

My own oppiniion is that it should, because the nails/screws are part
of the sheetrock surface that is specd for removal in the contract.
The contract also says all debris are to be removed, which might also
be construed to mean the nails still in the studs, however I think
viewing it as part of the sheetrock surface is more appropriate.

I don't think the contractor should be required to remove the nails
left sticking out that were driven in around the door frame from the
other side. Those nails were not part of the material being removed,
but are part of the rest of the structure.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 8, 10:54 pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 21:11:37 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:







"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
. ..
I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling out
sheetrock, wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be "bloomed
clean"
and "disposed", and for the most part it is, and I don't have a
problem
with that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet rock
pulled
down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling removed from concrete
block walls, there are tons of staples, nails, screws still on the
furring
strip, or studs or concrete walls. They cannot stay there if I hire
someone to hang new sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut
them
off. I would assume they should have been removed as part of
demolition,
right? It is not explicitely stated in the contract but I wonder if
this
is typical or usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8 inches
or
so, and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to take them out?
Should
this be included as part of demo? I would think so but I thought I
asked
before I complain about it.

Thanks,

MC

Let me clarify the situation further. This is not a confrontation
between
me and the contractor. I am merely asking questions and doing homework
before I ask him. He has not refused to remove them, I just wanted to
make
sure removal of them is standard. Yes I failed to state this in the
contract, but I incorrectly assumed if sheetrock goes the nails and
screws
go, my bad.

Here are a few pictures so it is crystal clear what I am talking about:

Ceiling sheet rock removed:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010313.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010312.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010314.jpg

see many of the staples and screws still have bits of sheetrock with
them.

Here is a view of some of the framing with the door jamb and the rough
opening removed. Apparently some of the lumber were nailed from the
other
side of the sister studs, so we got long nails sticking out:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010322.jpg

Is it reasonable to expect those to be removed?

No it is not stated in the contract, so if it's not spec'ed then it's
not
covered, then obviously I made a bad assumption and a back breaking
lesson
if I have to do it myself.

Thanks!

MC

Trying to follow the thread, you mentioned you visited the site
frequently... This would've been a perfect time to bring it up while
the workers/boss was there. Saves him time and effort.

Why would you remove the RO? (changing a wall?) I'm just a DIY person,
but those headers don't seem to have enough support. Did you go too
far in lumber removal - too expose the header nails?

BTW, protect that wire!

--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The interesting thing in this thread is that no one has answered the
actual question. And that is if anyone has had similar demo work
done, if it's not specifically called out in the contract, did it
include removal of the sheetrock nails, screws, etc that are on the
stud faces?

My own oppiniion is that it should, because the nails/screws are part
of the sheetrock surface that is specd for removal in the contract.
The contract also says all debris are to be removed, which might also
be construed to mean the nails still in the studs, however I think
viewing it as part of the sheetrock surface is more appropriate.

I don't think the contractor should be required to remove the nails
left sticking out that were driven in around the door frame from the
other side. Those nails were not part of the material being removed,
but are part of the rest of the structure.


Well since I did not specific in the contract, then it lies with me. I will
try to get rid of the ones on the studs myself, and perhaps hire the drywall
people to deal with the ceiling ones.

I don't think there is a tool designed to remove exposed nails/staples
right?

MC

clipped

Well since I did not specific in the contract, then it lies with me. I will
try to get rid of the ones on the studs myself, and perhaps hire the drywall
people to deal with the ceiling ones.

I don't think there is a tool designed to remove exposed nails/staples
right?

MC


I haven't followed this thread much. From looking at one picture of the
ceiling, it looks like you might do better by just removing the furring
strips, rather than the nails. I sympathize with your situation, but I
sure wouldn't want to pay skilled drywall installers to pull nails.
Have you questioned them as to whether they can cut off the nails?
Might go a bit faster, and surely they have had similar situations.

I don't think there is a tool designed to remove exposed nails/staples
right?

A 12" pair of electricians pliers and a "twist of the wrist" works for me in
such cases.
If it weren't for the remainder of the paper and rock around the nails, you
could just bang them in flush with yer hammer.

If you were doing this project for yourself and by yourself I
doubt that you would remove all nails and staples. You might
hammer then all flush. You would probably miss some and still be
hammering them flush when you go to install the new finish.

The nails at the jamb certainly do NOT look like something for the
demolition man to handle.

You can certainly ask, but if I had contracted it with you the
most I would consider would be to hammer to flush on the ceiling
(grudgingly, I might add) and I would do nothing at the jamb.

Perhaps it would be a better approach to ask how much the fella
wanted to clean it all up. It might be fairly inexpensive. There
is something really strange going on at that jamb. It is almost
as if the last guys used a used header or two on something. The
nails are not normal and are old. If they had been nailed into
what was just removed, they would be shiny.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...
I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling
out sheetrock, wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be
"bloomed clean" and "disposed", and for the most part it is,
and I don't have a problem with that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet
rock pulled down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling
removed from concrete block walls, there are tons of staples,
nails, screws still on the furring strip, or studs or concrete
walls. They cannot stay there if I hire someone to hang new
sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut them off. I
would assume they should have been removed as part of
demolition, right? It is not explicitely stated in the
contract but I wonder if this is typical or usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8
inches or so, and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to
take them out? Should this be included as part of demo? I
would think so but I thought I asked before I complain about
it.

Thanks,

MC


Let me clarify the situation further. This is not a
confrontation between me and the contractor. I am merely asking
questions and doing homework before I ask him. He has not
refused to remove them, I just wanted to make sure removal of
them is standard. Yes I failed to state this in the contract,
but I incorrectly assumed if sheetrock goes the nails and screws
go, my bad.

Here are a few pictures so it is crystal clear what I am talking
about:

Ceiling sheet rock removed:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010313.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010312.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010314.jpg

see many of the staples and screws still have bits of sheetrock
with them.

Here is a view of some of the framing with the door jamb and the
rough opening removed. Apparently some of the lumber were
nailed from the other side of the sister studs, so we got long
nails sticking out:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...o/P1010322.jpg

Is it reasonable to expect those to be removed?

No it is not stated in the contract, so if it's not spec'ed then
it's not covered, then obviously I made a bad assumption and a
back breaking lesson if I have to do it myself.

Thanks!

MC

MiamiCuse wrote:

I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling out sheetrock,
wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be "bloomed clean" and
"disposed", and for the most part it is, and I don't have a problem with
that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet rock pulled
down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling removed from concrete block
walls, there are tons of staples, nails, screws still on the furring strip,
or studs or concrete walls. They cannot stay there if I hire someone to
hang new sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut them off. I would
assume they should have been removed as part of demolition, right? It is
not explicitely stated in the contract but I wonder if this is typical or
usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8 inches or so,
and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to take them out? Should this
be included as part of demo? I would think so but I thought I asked before
I complain about it.

Thanks,

MC


I am a general contractor and here is my answer. I have had
both scenarios and there is no definitive standard. I have
had a lot of demo done by others and generally, if the demo
subcontractor deals with the nails/screws, they do not remove
them. They drive them in or bend them over. They do not do a
real good job of this, so I always assume that I will be doing
some prep work for drywall.

I do not allow them to leave the drywall remnants on the
screws as the OP has in his situation. In the process of
removing these bits, the demo guys will usually break off
screws and bend over nails.

Sometimes I do not want the nails and/or screws left in, and
in those situations, I put a guy or two with the demo crew to
oversee and help with REMOVAL of said fasteners.

Every situation is different, but in general, I expect the
demo guys to do a rough clean of the studs. I always expect
to do SOME prep work to get ready for wall coverings.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

"Robert Allison" wrote in message
news:ahVEi.799$Af1.641@trnddc06...
MiamiCuse wrote:

I have a dumb question.

I hired someone to do some major demolition involving pulling out
sheetrock, wood paneling, removal of mirrors, tiles etc...

I specified in the contract that everything needs to be "bloomed clean"
and "disposed", and for the most part it is, and I don't have a problem
with that.

However, whenever 2x4s are pulled out from the wall, or sheet rock pulled
down from the ceiling or wall, or wood paneling removed from concrete
block walls, there are tons of staples, nails, screws still on the
furring strip, or studs or concrete walls. They cannot stay there if I
hire someone to hang new sheetrock they will have to get them out or cut
them off. I would assume they should have been removed as part of
demolition, right? It is not explicitely stated in the contract but I
wonder if this is typical or usual customary.

I am talking about over 1000 SF of ceiling with these every 8 inches or
so, and many wall surfaces. Who is responsible to take them out? Should
this be included as part of demo? I would think so but I thought I asked
before I complain about it.

Thanks,

MC

I am a general contractor and here is my answer. I have had both
scenarios and there is no definitive standard. I have had a lot of demo
done by others and generally, if the demo subcontractor deals with the
nails/screws, they do not remove them. They drive them in or bend them
over. They do not do a real good job of this, so I always assume that I
will be doing some prep work for drywall.

I do not allow them to leave the drywall remnants on the screws as the OP
has in his situation. In the process of removing these bits, the demo
guys will usually break off screws and bend over nails.

Sometimes I do not want the nails and/or screws left in, and in those
situations, I put a guy or two with the demo crew to oversee and help with
REMOVAL of said fasteners.

Every situation is different, but in general, I expect the demo guys to do
a rough clean of the studs. I always expect to do SOME prep work to get
ready for wall coverings.

--
Robert Allison Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX


Thanks for the advise. I talked to the demo guy and he felt it should not
be part of the demo project but should be done by the drywall guys. He
thinks for him to pound in or remove every staple or nail will take
"forever". So I have to do it myself or hire the drywall prep guy to do it.
A lesson learned definitely. Next time my contract will be detailed to the
Nth degree.

MC