I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
house is over 30 years old, all the bathrooms are tiled from floor to
ceiling, every inch of it. I believe he assumed these to be drywall or
cement board with tiles over it, just rip them out. Now we found out
these are very thick thinset or stucco (almost three inches thick)
with wire mesh in them. Obviously this makes it harder to remove than
just sheet rock or cement boards, it also add quite a bit of debris to
be processed and disposed of.

He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

I thought this is fair because it is added work, but a part of me
thought he should have investigated more before he provided an
estimate to me, since I was going to gut the place, I gave him plans,
dimensions, I invited him to punch holes in ceilings and walls
anywhere he wants, I told him he can rip up carpets to see if
something else is underneath, anything he needs to know ahead of time
he is free to probe, so he should take part of the responsibility.

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How
much added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick
thick thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?

Thanks,

MC

On 23 Aug, 11:11, wrote:
I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
house is over 30 years old, all the bathrooms are tiled from floor to
ceiling, every inch of it. I believe he assumed these to be drywall or
cement board with tiles over it, just rip them out. Now we found out
these are very thick thinset or stucco (almost three inches thick)
with wire mesh in them. Obviously this makes it harder to remove than
just sheet rock or cement boards, it also add quite a bit of debris to
be processed and disposed of.

He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

I thought this is fair because it is added work, but a part of me
thought he should have investigated more before he provided an
estimate to me, since I was going to gut the place, I gave him plans,
dimensions, I invited him to punch holes in ceilings and walls
anywhere he wants, I told him he can rip up carpets to see if
something else is underneath, anything he needs to know ahead of time
he is free to probe, so he should take part of the responsibility.

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How
much added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick
thick thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?

Thanks,

MC

I feel your pain!

The tough guy in me says "I gave you the opportunity to spec the job
by drilling holes and pulling carpet. We agreed on a price, now go do
the work."
The wimp in me says "If I push this, he'll screw me one way or another
and *somehow* I'll end up paying for it the long run."

My suggestion would be to nicely mention the "tough guy - we have a
contract" point but give him the opportunity to make an offer. Perhaps
a fair trade-off is for you to cover the extra disposal fees but not
his extra labor. However, the question here is: Will there actually be
any additional disposal costs or do you already have a dumpster that
can handle the extra debris?

My guess is he'll present an offer knowing that you'll discount it, so
I suggest you keep that in mind and not pay him the same rate for the
additional work as for the original contract. It should cost him
*something* since he spec'd the job incorrectly.

Is there a provision in the contract for adjustment?

If not, he's on the hook, but if his price was fair to begin with, and
you think he's incurring additional labor and removal expense, it
seems fair to compensate him.

Some contractors likely build a significant cushion for unanticipated
extras; I'd prefer to deal with a contractor who was honest with his
estimate, with some acknowledged flexibility down the road where
necessary.

Good luck.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
house is over 30 years old, all the bathrooms are tiled from floor to
ceiling, every inch of it. I believe he assumed these to be drywall or
cement board with tiles over it, just rip them out. Now we found out
these are very thick thinset or stucco (almost three inches thick)
with wire mesh in them. Obviously this makes it harder to remove than
just sheet rock or cement boards, it also add quite a bit of debris to
be processed and disposed of.

He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

I thought this is fair because it is added work, but a part of me
thought he should have investigated more before he provided an
estimate to me, since I was going to gut the place, I gave him plans,
dimensions, I invited him to punch holes in ceilings and walls
anywhere he wants, I told him he can rip up carpets to see if
something else is underneath, anything he needs to know ahead of time
he is free to probe, so he should take part of the responsibility.

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How
much added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick
thick thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?

I just "refinished" a table for someone.
I thought the paint would come off easier.
I didn't notice it was so badly warped that it would take forever to
flatten.
Under all the crud I didn't see the gouges that had to be filled and color
matched.
It took me 3 times as long as I figured. That is my tough luck; I should
have examined it better. I am not asking for an adjustment in price, and
wouldn't accept one if offered.

If he planned on stucco and it turned out to be drywall, was he going to
charge you less? I don't think so.

wrote:

....
He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
....
He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

....

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How
much added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick
thick thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?


If the job ended up easier than he thought, would he reduce the price?
Did he get the job because he underbid other contractors who factored
in a reserve for unanticipated work?
Who wrote the contract and the work description?

On Aug 23, 10:11 am, wrote:
I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
house is over 30 years old, all the bathrooms are tiled from floor to
ceiling, every inch of it. I believe he assumed these to be drywall or
cement board with tiles over it, just rip them out. Now we found out
these are very thick thinset or stucco (almost three inches thick)
with wire mesh in them. Obviously this makes it harder to remove than
just sheet rock or cement boards, it also add quite a bit of debris to
be processed and disposed of.

He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

I thought this is fair because it is added work, but a part of me
thought he should have investigated more before he provided an
estimate to me, since I was going to gut the place, I gave him plans,
dimensions, I invited him to punch holes in ceilings and walls
anywhere he wants, I told him he can rip up carpets to see if
something else is underneath, anything he needs to know ahead of time
he is free to probe, so he should take part of the responsibility.

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How
much added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick
thick thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?

Thanks,

MC

Would he lower his price, for your benefit, if part of the job
suddenly went real easy and faster than he anticipated?

On Aug 23, 10:45 am, RickH wrote:
On Aug 23, 10:11 am, wrote:





I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
house is over 30 years old, all the bathrooms are tiled from floor to
ceiling, every inch of it. I believe he assumed these to be drywall or
cement board with tiles over it, just rip them out. Now we found out
these are very thick thinset or stucco (almost three inches thick)
with wire mesh in them. Obviously this makes it harder to remove than
just sheet rock or cement boards, it also add quite a bit of debris to
be processed and disposed of.

He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

I thought this is fair because it is added work, but a part of me
thought he should have investigated more before he provided an
estimate to me, since I was going to gut the place, I gave him plans,
dimensions, I invited him to punch holes in ceilings and walls
anywhere he wants, I told him he can rip up carpets to see if
something else is underneath, anything he needs to know ahead of time
he is free to probe, so he should take part of the responsibility.

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How
much added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick
thick thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?

Thanks,

MC

Would he lower his price, for your benefit, if part of the job
suddenly went real easy and faster than he anticipated?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you sure he did not know before, what did your other bidders
state. You dont have to pay for his stupidity but if you know it was
not bid share some of the loss, he should loose a bit and learn from
his mistakes. Ive had customers refuse me on these issues and some
not. It also depends on what he is making off you per hour, and what
he pays for labor. Did you get a copy of his Worker Comp and Liability
from his broker, not from him? If he is uninsured, you are completely
liable if he or his workers hurt themselves or your house. Get his
insurance papers and think about it awhile. I know some contractors
that make a point of getting "extras" just to get more money. Is he
lisenced, does he have complaints registered, How many times has he
been sued in court, You should have found the answers to these
questions before you hired him.

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:11:59 -0700, nmbexcuse wrote:

I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor, carpets
etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and mirror walls in
four bathrooms.

He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
house is over 30 years old, all the bathrooms are tiled from floor to
ceiling, every inch of it. I believe he assumed these to be drywall or
cement board with tiles over it, just rip them out. Now we found out these
are very thick thinset or stucco (almost three inches thick) with wire
mesh in them. Obviously this makes it harder to remove than just sheet
rock or cement boards, it also add quite a bit of debris to be processed
and disposed of.

He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

I thought this is fair because it is added work, but a part of me thought
he should have investigated more before he provided an estimate to me,
since I was going to gut the place, I gave him plans, dimensions, I
invited him to punch holes in ceilings and walls anywhere he wants, I told
him he can rip up carpets to see if something else is underneath, anything
he needs to know ahead of time he is free to probe, so he should take part
of the responsibility.

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How much
added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick thick
thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?

Thanks,

MC

Really good posts here. But havent heard this idea yet.

Give him the opportunity to void the contract and find someone else.
Sounds like he is inexperienced and it might benefit you to find someone
with more experience. Might cost a bit more but might be done better.

take care,


--
coffee
Linux Registered User #449534

wrote in message
ups.com...
I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Apparently you were satisfied with his price and his qualifications.



Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
house is over 30 years old, all the bathrooms are tiled from floor to
ceiling, every inch of it. I believe he assumed these to be drywall or
cement board with tiles over it, just rip them out. Now we found out
these are very thick thinset or stucco (almost three inches thick)
with wire mesh in them. Obviously this makes it harder to remove than
just sheet rock or cement boards, it also add quite a bit of debris to
be processed and disposed of.

So, he went ahead with the job instead of bringing it to your attention at
that time, and asking for a change order? Shows he thought he could do SOME
extra work and stick to his price.



He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

Proper thing to do. Most would have stopped work.


I thought this is fair because it is added work, but a part of me
thought he should have investigated more before he provided an
estimate to me, since I was going to gut the place, I gave him plans,
dimensions, I invited him to punch holes in ceilings and walls
anywhere he wants, I told him he can rip up carpets to see if
something else is underneath, anything he needs to know ahead of time
he is free to probe, so he should take part of the responsibility.


So tell him he screwed up, and ask what HE thinks would be fair. He may
quote a low price that surprises you. If he's high, decide if you want him
to finish or not. If you haven't paid him yet (and I hope you haven't), you
have some leverage here.

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How
much added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick
thick thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?

That's hard to say, so I'll just say a LOT more.


Thanks,

MC


Steve

wrote in message
ups.com...
I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

snipped

In certain situations I agree with every reply you have received to this
point.

To answer your question, tearing out a wire reinforced mortar set wall and
floor was one of the worst jobs I ever did. There is quite a bit more to
landfill both in weight and volume. The additional labor is 2-3 times as
much. You tear it out in smaller pieces and pick them up the same way.

Should he have caught it and will he next time? He will if he stays in the
business. Every time I have screwed myself, I have sucked it up and called
it education. Then went on to finish the job to the same standard I always
do. Not all contractors do it that way.

Now the poster who said " The wimp in me says "If I push this, he'll screw
me one way or another
and *somehow* I'll end up paying for it the long run."" is 100% correct. He
wasn't being a "wimp", he was being a realist. If you are going to continue
this relationship some type of adjustment may be in order or you will pay
for it somewhere with most contractors.

The poster who suggested paying for some extra dump fees might be a fair
compromise also gave good advise.

Good luck.

On Aug 25, 6:41 pm, "Colbyt" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

snipped

In certain situations I agree with every reply you have received to this
point.

To answer your question, tearing out a wire reinforced mortar set wall and
floor was one of the worst jobs I ever did. There is quite a bit more to
landfill both in weight and volume. The additional labor is 2-3 times as
much. You tear it out in smaller pieces and pick them up the same way.

Should he have caught it and will he next time? He will if he stays in the
business. Every time I have screwed myself, I have sucked it up and called
it education. Then went on to finish the job to the same standard I always
do. Not all contractors do it that way.

Now the poster who said " The wimp in me says "If I push this, he'll screw
me one way or another
and *somehow* I'll end up paying for it the long run."" is 100% correct. He
wasn't being a "wimp", he was being a realist. If you are going to continue
this relationship some type of adjustment may be in order or you will pay
for it somewhere with most contractors.

The poster who suggested paying for some extra dump fees might be a fair
compromise also gave good advise.

Good luck.

The poster who called himself a "wimp" and the poster who suggested
paying for some extra dump fees was one and the same - me! You mean I
got 2 things right in the same post? ;-)

On Aug 24, 12:46 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

I hired someone to do some demolition of my house, tear down wood
paneling, remove existing doors, wall paper, old linoleum floor,
carpets etc... and part of it included ripping down all tiled and
mirror walls in four bathrooms.

He gave me an estimate and we signed a contract.

Apparently you were satisfied with his price and his qualifications.



Now he is in the middle of demo of the bathrooms, and bear in mind the
house is over 30 years old, all the bathrooms are tiled from floor to
ceiling, every inch of it. I believe he assumed these to be drywall or
cement board with tiles over it, just rip them out. Now we found out
these are very thick thinset or stucco (almost three inches thick)
with wire mesh in them. Obviously this makes it harder to remove than
just sheet rock or cement boards, it also add quite a bit of debris to
be processed and disposed of.

So, he went ahead with the job instead of bringing it to your attention at
that time, and asking for a change order? Shows he thought he could do SOME
extra work and stick to his price.

It's not extra work. The contract called for ripping down the tile
walls in 4 bathrooms. That is what he contracted to do. And from
what the OP has stated there is no contract provision that says he
gets to ask for extra because it turned out to be harder than
expected.







He asked me about adjusting the contract price to account for this.

Proper thing to do. Most would have stopped work.



IF the contractor stopped work, then he would be in default on the
contract. He doesn't have the right to stop the work just because it
turned out to be harder.





I thought this is fair because it is added work, but a part of me
thought he should have investigated more before he provided an
estimate to me, since I was going to gut the place, I gave him plans,
dimensions, I invited him to punch holes in ceilings and walls
anywhere he wants, I told him he can rip up carpets to see if
something else is underneath, anything he needs to know ahead of time
he is free to probe, so he should take part of the responsibility.

So tell him he screwed up, and ask what HE thinks would be fair. He may
quote a low price that surprises you. If he's high, decide if you want him
to finish or not. If you haven't paid him yet (and I hope you haven't), you
have some leverage here.

Now the question is, how do you come up with a fair adjustment? How
much added work is involved in demolition of four bathrooms - thick
thick thinset stucco wire mesh versus sheet rock?

That's hard to say, so I'll just say a LOT more.



And as someone else pointed out, if the contractor had thought the
job was based on tearing out walls of tile over lath and mortar and it
turned out to be just drywall, would he be giving the homeowner a LOT
of money back?

Contractors taking these jobs know that some will turn out harder,
some will turn out easier, when they give a price quote.

Bottom line, I would consider what price this contractor charged
versus other quotes. If he was low and is doing a great job, then I'd
consider giving him some additional money at the end of the job, when
it's all done, as a bonus.






Thanks,

MC

Steve

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
ups.com...

The poster who called himself a "wimp" and the poster who suggested
paying for some extra dump fees was one and the same - me! You mean I
got 2 things right in the same post? ;-)


If you said them both, IMO you called it right!

I was doing that from memory or I would have credited you.

Well I don't call it being a "wimp".