Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
Because of our dry weather I noticed my electric fences were not
working very well. I soon discovered that I got shocks when I touched the ground rod. I knew right away the ground was bad. I only had a 2 foot piece of galv. pipe. so I went to buy a real rod. The guy told me I need three 8 foot rods spaced 10 ft. apart, and gave me a free booklet put out by the Dare Company. Well, OK, they do say to use three rods, but I think that's overkill. At the same time my 2 ft, pipe was way under rated. So, I will put in a real 8 foot rod, but only one. I'm sure that will help greatly. However, here comes the question. They say to not place the fencer ground rod closer than 40 feet to the house or barn ground rods. I can not understand what the reasoning is for that? I also looked and the rod I am replacing is 18 ft from the barn ground to the breaker box. My other fencer (other barn) that rod is only about 11 feet away and that one is set in a concrete slab so it would be very hard to replace, however, it's only a foot from the water hydrant so that seems ideal since the ground is always well soaked. In order to change the one I am working on, I'd have to move the fencer to the other end of the barn, which means changing the fence and adding an outlet. Or, I'd have to run 20 ft of wire to the rod. I dont understand why the closeness to the building (power) rod should make any difference at all. Do you? Thanks |
#2
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
|
#3
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
I have ONE eight foot rod driven in about 5 feet right below the charger. I
can't imagine needing any more. And no, it has nothing to do with your electrical ground system. -- Steve Barker wrote in message news Because of our dry weather I noticed my electric fences were not working very well. I soon discovered that I got shocks when I touched the ground rod. I knew right away the ground was bad. I only had a 2 foot piece of galv. pipe. so I went to buy a real rod. The guy told me I need three 8 foot rods spaced 10 ft. apart, and gave me a free booklet put out by the Dare Company. Well, OK, they do say to use three rods, but I think that's overkill. At the same time my 2 ft, pipe was way under rated. So, I will put in a real 8 foot rod, but only one. I'm sure that will help greatly. However, here comes the question. They say to not place the fencer ground rod closer than 40 feet to the house or barn ground rods. I can not understand what the reasoning is for that? I also looked and the rod I am replacing is 18 ft from the barn ground to the breaker box. My other fencer (other barn) that rod is only about 11 feet away and that one is set in a concrete slab so it would be very hard to replace, however, it's only a foot from the water hydrant so that seems ideal since the ground is always well soaked. In order to change the one I am working on, I'd have to move the fencer to the other end of the barn, which means changing the fence and adding an outlet. Or, I'd have to run 20 ft of wire to the rod. I dont understand why the closeness to the building (power) rod should make any difference at all. Do you? Thanks |
#4
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
You all keep that rain over there if it comes this time.
-- Steve Barker (se Kansas) "dpb" wrote in message ... It's normally pretty dry here in SW KS and never had any need for so much ground on the electric fences to keep them "hot". I would go w/ a sold rod instead of (particularly galvanized) pipe, and drive it certainly deeper than 2-ft. In some really dry times, have just taken the water truck over there and soaked it up -- it'll take a couple months before there's any problem again even if it doesn't rain...and we could certainly stand some -- been about six weeks now since other than a shower... -- |
#5
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
Steve Barker wrote:
You all keep that rain over there if it comes this time. Would love to have "you'se guys" share some...since the mid-May bout of severe weather, we've only had one good rain here...been _very_ spotty. From about Dodge on east, not so, but west and particularly SW... -- |
#6
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
wrote in message news Because of our dry weather I noticed my electric fences were not working very well. I soon discovered that I got shocks when I touched the ground rod. I knew right away the ground was bad. I only had a 2 foot piece of galv. pipe. so I went to buy a real rod. The guy told me I need three 8 foot rods spaced 10 ft. apart, and gave me a free booklet put out by the Dare Company. Well, OK, they do say to use three rods, but I think that's overkill. At the same time my 2 ft, pipe was way under rated. So, I will put in a real 8 foot rod, but only one. I'm sure that will help greatly. However, here comes the question. They say to not place the fencer ground rod closer than 40 feet to the house or barn ground rods. I can not understand what the reasoning is for that? I also looked and the rod I am replacing is 18 ft from the barn ground to the breaker box. My other fencer (other barn) that rod is only about 11 feet away and that one is set in a concrete slab so it would be very hard to replace, however, it's only a foot from the water hydrant so that seems ideal since the ground is always well soaked. In order to change the one I am working on, I'd have to move the fencer to the other end of the barn, which means changing the fence and adding an outlet. Or, I'd have to run 20 ft of wire to the rod. I dont understand why the closeness to the building (power) rod should make any difference at all. Do you? Thanks I'm thinking that since the fence ground is part of the shock circuit that it may be possible that fence charger voltage will stray into the grounding electrode system of the house or barn thereby creating a shock hazard for the occupants. |
#7
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
|
#8
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
|
#9
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:53:16 -0500, valvejob wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 08:30:05 -0500, wrote: Because of our dry weather I noticed my electric fences were not working very well. I soon discovered that I got shocks when I touched the ground rod. I knew right away the ground was bad. I only had a 2 foot piece of galv. pipe. so I went to buy a real rod. The guy told me I need three 8 foot rods spaced 10 ft. apart, and gave me a free booklet put out by the Dare Company. Well, OK, they do say to use three rods, but I think that's overkill. At the same time my 2 ft, pipe was way under rated. So, I will put in a real 8 foot rod, but only one. I'm sure that will help greatly. However, here comes the question. They say to not place the fencer ground rod closer than 40 feet to the house or barn ground rods. I can not understand what the reasoning is for that? I also looked and the rod I am replacing is 18 ft from the barn ground to the breaker box. My other fencer (other barn) that rod is only about 11 feet away and that one is set in a concrete slab so it would be very hard to replace, however, it's only a foot from the water hydrant so that seems ideal since the ground is always well soaked. In order to change the one I am working on, I'd have to move the fencer to the other end of the barn, which means changing the fence and adding an outlet. Or, I'd have to run 20 ft of wire to the rod. I dont understand why the closeness to the building (power) rod should make any difference at all. Do you? Thanks Yes, I do. My fence charger generates 5,000 volts between the two terminals and I assume yours is about the same. That sounds about right. I have one of those voltage testers. If you have a poor ground and a shorted hot wire, then the ground becomes -5,000 volts. If you tied that to your house ground then your house ground would be at -5,000 volts. Yes, if it was tied directly to the house (or barn) ground, but I don't do that. It's just that the rods (fence and barn) are closer than 40 feet apart, so I cant see how that would have any effect. It may never put the full charge on the house ground but in real life it happens often enough to shock you and to kill small animals. Also happens often enough that they put warnings about it on their products. I have heard and even read articles about stray voltage. However, I cant see how the power from a fencer would kill small animals. My barn cats always manage to walk under an electric fence with their tails in the air, and YEOW...... (pretty funny to see). Eventually they learn to keep their tails down.... Electric fencers are not intended to kill anything, just shock. Now, getting shocked is another matter. I've had horses shove their water tank against a hot wire. The tank is plastic, but when a little dew gets on the sides, the horses jump when they take a drink. This caused our pony to refuse to drink and he got sick because of it. He's ok now, but I had to relocate the tank, use a different tank, and now I drive a couple pieces of 2x4 in the ground so the tank cant be shoved against the fence. There are lots of homes and farms that are floating many volts off the ground or neutral line because of poor grounds due to poor soil. Read recently where a dairy farmer had that problem with his 220 volt neutral and his livestock were sensing it. Yes, that could kill, and do all sorts of other damage to equipment. But that has nothing to do with the fencer ground. By the way, I should mention that when my poor 2 foot ground rod got too dry, I could touch the electric fence and barely feel it. But when I touched the ground rod, I got a worse shock than I have ever gotten from the fence itself. Interestingly enough, I just dug a post hole about 24" deep not too far from that ground rod. The soil was dry all the way down. I temporarily solved the dry ground rod by letting the hose run on it for 10 minutes or so. That restored the fence operations. However, I am now going to install an 8 foot store bought ground rod I doubt it will get dry all the way to the bottom. Originally that 2' pipe was temporary, but it's one of those things that you do and forget about as long as it works. Oh ya, we got almost 3" of rain this week..... Thank God !!!! |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
|
#12
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
|
#13
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
|
#14
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
jimmy-fat-**** ledford, angry drunk peg-leg of Greater
Wendell, NC, blabbered: wrote: [....] Oh ya, we got almost 3" of rain this week..... Thank God !!!! excellent! good job on thanking God. He is The Father and the true provider. to believe in His Word is to receive from Him. You stupid superstitious ****. |
#16
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
Yes. The pulses from the earth rod can feed back into earth pegs that are being used by domestic switchboards and telephone lines - this would lead to your radio clicking, your stereo, your telephone, possibly disrupt your internet connection. I "buy" that. The "earthing" system is only supposed to "see" fault currents. In "normal" circumstances, no current flows in you grounding system. My neighbour, who is on the same transformer as I , once foolishly used the mains switchboard earth peg in his dairy shed for the fence unit. Even my electric kettle was clicking and ticking away when I plugged it in. It also damaged my stereo amp. In most areas, the ground and neutral are bonded together at the service panel and/or the meter base. IF that's the situation where you live then MAYBE I can see him having the problems you describe but I just don't understand how so much electrical "crap" gets into your house. |
#17
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
That all depends upon how the utility has connected the primary of the distribution transformer. In the US, it's quite common for on connection on the transformer primary to be connected to a grounded neutral. If that's the case, several amps will flow through the ground connection under normal circumstances. "Several" amps? First, most heavy loads are 240 volts and for these loans there is no neutral current. The 120 volt loads partly cancel. MAYBE you might get a net neutral current of 30 amps. That 30 amps of neutral current is traveling over wires rated to carry 100 or 200 amps (depending upon service). The voltage drop between "pole pig" and service entrance on the neutral might be a volt or two but likely a fraction of a volt. That voltage difference is what would be driving current through the "ground connection." Let's say there is 25 ohms resistance. Even 3 or 4 volts could drive only a fraction of one amp. |
#18
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
wrote in message ... Yes. The pulses from the earth rod can feed back into earth pegs that are being used by domestic switchboards and telephone lines - this would lead to your radio clicking, your stereo, your telephone, possibly disrupt your internet connection. I "buy" that. The "earthing" system is only supposed to "see" fault currents. In "normal" circumstances, no current flows in you grounding system. That all depends upon how the utility has connected the primary of the distribution transformer. In the US, it's quite common for on connection on the transformer primary to be connected to a grounded neutral. If that's the case, several amps will flow through the ground connection under normal circumstances. |
#19
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
wrote in message ... That all depends upon how the utility has connected the primary of the distribution transformer. In the US, it's quite common for on connection on the transformer primary to be connected to a grounded neutral. If that's the case, several amps will flow through the ground connection under normal circumstances. "Several" amps? First, most heavy loads are 240 volts and for these loans there is no neutral current. The 120 volt loads partly cancel. MAYBE you might get a net neutral current of 30 amps. That 30 amps of neutral current is traveling over wires rated to carry 100 or 200 amps (depending upon service). The voltage drop between "pole pig" and service entrance on the neutral might be a volt or two but likely a fraction of a volt. That voltage difference is what would be driving current through the "ground connection." Let's say there is 25 ohms resistance. Even 3 or 4 volts could drive only a fraction of one amp. _PRIMARY_ return current. Thousands to tens of thousands of volts to drive the ground current plus many ohms of resistance in the neutral wire back to the substation many miles away. |
#20
Posted to misc.rural,alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Electric Fence Grounding
In article ,
says... I "buy" that. The "earthing" system is only supposed to "see" fault currents. In "normal" circumstances, no current flows in you grounding system. Aw jeez, I wrote a lenghty reply and then the connection to the newsserver crashed - I saved the message but now it's gone . Sorry, once was enough ... -P. -- ========================================= firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
electric fence? | Home Repair | |||
Electric fence energiser | UK diy | |||
Grounding for electric service to new barn | Home Repair | |||
Doulble Receptacle Grounding Question/ Switch Grounding | Home Repair | |||
Electric Fence | Home Repair |