I have read several articles online about installing a ceiling fan in
place of an existing light. Seems like a straightforward job.

However, the first thing I need to do is replace the existing plastic
j-box with a metal one rated for ceiling fans. Seems simple enough,
except for one thing: how am I supposed to get the original box out of
the ceiling?!

Since I don't have access to the box from an attic, I can't tell from
below how the box is mounted. I assume it's nailed into the joists,
but this is an old, old home, and nothing about it is standard. Is
there any trick to removing the old box? I guess I could cut a larger
hole in the drywall and patch it up when finished, but I would prefer
not to do that if a less-messy option is available. I'm also not
opposed to taking a sawzall around the outer perimeter of the box
(being careful not to cut the wire), but I would prefer not to do that
as well.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Joseph

Joseph O'Brien wrote:

I have read several articles online about installing a ceiling fan in
place of an existing light. Seems like a straightforward job.

However, the first thing I need to do is replace the existing plastic
j-box with a metal one rated for ceiling fans. Seems simple enough,
except for one thing: how am I supposed to get the original box out of
the ceiling?!

Since I don't have access to the box from an attic, I can't tell from
below how the box is mounted. I assume it's nailed into the joists,
but this is an old, old home, and nothing about it is standard. Is
there any trick to removing the old box? I guess I could cut a larger
hole in the drywall and patch it up when finished, but I would prefer
not to do that if a less-messy option is available. I'm also not
opposed to taking a sawzall around the outer perimeter of the box
(being careful not to cut the wire), but I would prefer not to do that
as well.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Joseph


Plastic box? Cut the plastic or swiss-cheese it with a drill.

If you must cut out a metal brace use the finest tooth Sawzall blade.

There are a number of types of plastic ceiling boxes. If there are visible
screws or rivets inside the box, unscrew them or drill them out. This should
allow the box to drop. Then you will be able to see the metal bracket and
cut it with a sawzall. If there are no visible screws or rivets inside the
box, it is probably attached to the side of the beam via captive nails. This
type of box can be removed by using the butt of a hammer or similar, and
punching it up into the ceiling until the nails pull out. Then remove the
cable from the box and slide the box out of the existing hole or discard it
inside the ceiling



"Joseph O'Brien" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have read several articles online about installing a ceiling fan in
place of an existing light. Seems like a straightforward job.

However, the first thing I need to do is replace the existing plastic
j-box with a metal one rated for ceiling fans. Seems simple enough,
except for one thing: how am I supposed to get the original box out of
the ceiling?!

Since I don't have access to the box from an attic, I can't tell from
below how the box is mounted. I assume it's nailed into the joists,
but this is an old, old home, and nothing about it is standard. Is
there any trick to removing the old box? I guess I could cut a larger
hole in the drywall and patch it up when finished, but I would prefer
not to do that if a less-messy option is available. I'm also not
opposed to taking a sawzall around the outer perimeter of the box
(being careful not to cut the wire), but I would prefer not to do that
as well.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Joseph

Joseph O'Brien wrote:
I have read several articles online about installing a ceiling fan in
place of an existing light. Seems like a straightforward job.

However, the first thing I need to do is replace the existing plastic
j-box with a metal one rated for ceiling fans. Seems simple enough,
except for one thing: how am I supposed to get the original box out of
the ceiling?!

Since I don't have access to the box from an attic, I can't tell from
below how the box is mounted. I assume it's nailed into the joists,
but this is an old, old home, and nothing about it is standard. Is
there any trick to removing the old box? I guess I could cut a larger
hole in the drywall and patch it up when finished, but I would prefer
not to do that if a less-messy option is available. I'm also not
opposed to taking a sawzall around the outer perimeter of the box
(being careful not to cut the wire), but I would prefer not to do that
as well.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Joseph

Just grab any protruding part of the plastic with visegrips and
twist...repeat as needed until all the bits are on the floor. Total
elsapsed time about a minute. A journeyman can probably do it in 15
seconds. There aren't any clamps imvolved, so crunching the plastic
with the visegrips will free your wires.
Be creative in removing screws or nails and if the mounting board or
whatever is sound, use it for your Raco 7120 if you like plastic
(ugh!) or Raco 290x metal series if you prefer something stronger. HTH

Joe

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:38:09 -0700, Joseph O'Brien
wrote:

I have read several articles online about installing a ceiling fan in
place of an existing light. Seems like a straightforward job.

However, the first thing I need to do is replace the existing plastic
j-box with a metal one rated for ceiling fans. Seems simple enough,
except for one thing: how am I supposed to get the original box out of
the ceiling?!

Have you picked out a fan yet? I haven't done this but what is the
size of the ceiling part of the fan compared to the current box in the
ceiling. Might it be bigger?

Remember that fans don't cool the air. They only give a breeze, or so.

On Jul 14, 6:16 pm, mm graced us with words
of wisdom:

Have you picked out a fan yet? I haven't done this but what is the
size of the ceiling part of the fan compared to the current box in the
ceiling. Might it be bigger?

Remember that fans don't cool the air. They only give a breeze, or so.

Oh, wait, fans make a breeze? I thought it was mostly just for
decoration and hanging stuff.

Of course I know fans don't cool the air. That's what we have A/C for.

Joe, RBM, Speedy Jim, thanks for contributing. I hadn't actually
thought about manhandling the box out of the ceiling. I will try to
pound it out first, and if that doesn't work, I'll cut it out.

Thanks again.
Joseph.

On Jul 15, 12:02 am, Joseph O'Brien wrote:
On Jul 14, 6:16 pm, mm graced us with words
of wisdom:

Have you picked out a fan yet? I haven't done this but what is the
size of the ceiling part of the fan compared to the current box in the
ceiling. Might it be bigger?
Remember that fans don't cool the air. They only give a breeze, or so.

Oh, wait, fans make a breeze? I thought it was mostly just for
decoration and hanging stuff.

Of course I know fans don't cool the air. That's what we have A/C for.

-- Joe, RBM, Speedy Jim, thanks for contributing...
-- Joseph.

Hey mm, I think ya'll been dissed!

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:19:22 -0700, DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Jul 15, 12:02 am, Joseph O'Brien wrote:
On Jul 14, 6:16 pm, mm graced us with words
of wisdom:

Have you picked out a fan yet? I haven't done this but what is the
size of the ceiling part of the fan compared to the current box in the
ceiling. Might it be bigger?
Remember that fans don't cool the air. They only give a breeze, or so.

Oh, wait, fans make a breeze? I thought it was mostly just for
decoration and hanging stuff.

Of course I know fans don't cool the air. That's what we have A/C for.

-- Joe, RBM, Speedy Jim, thanks for contributing...
-- Joseph.

Hey mm, I think ya'll been dissed!

Yeah, the guy's an insecure jerk. Anyone who wasn't would just have
been grateful that I tried to help him.

On Jul 15, 3:25 am, mm wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:19:22 -0700, DerbyDad03
wrote:





On Jul 15, 12:02 am, Joseph O'Brien wrote:
On Jul 14, 6:16 pm, mm graced us with words
of wisdom:

Have you picked out a fan yet? I haven't done this but what is the
size of the ceiling part of the fan compared to the current box in the
ceiling. Might it be bigger?
Remember that fans don't cool the air. They only give a breeze, or so.

Oh, wait, fans make a breeze? I thought it was mostly just for
decoration and hanging stuff.

Of course I know fans don't cool the air. That's what we have A/C for.

-- Joe, RBM, Speedy Jim, thanks for contributing...
-- Joseph.

Hey mm, I think ya'll been dissed!

Yeah, the guy's an insecure jerk. Anyone who wasn't would just have
been grateful that I tried to help him.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hmm. No, I wasn't dissing everyone. Joe, RBM, and Speedy Jim actually
gave me some helpful advice, for which I thanked them. I followed
their recommendations, and was able to remove the box fairly easily.
First, I beat it with a hammer until it bent up towards the ceiling.
Eventually, the box split (glad I didn't hang a fan from it), so from
there, it was a combination of cutting away the excess plastic and
pulling out the nails. Overall, it was a fairly easy job. Having never
seen one of the new installation boxes from above, though, I wasn't
sure how they were attached, but it all makes sense now.

MM, maybe I misinterpretted your answer, but I thought you were being
a smart alec with the "fans don't cool comment." Figured you were
jabbing at me for not knowing how to remove the box. Guess I was wrong
about that.

Sorry, and thanks.
Joseph.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:16:51 -0700, Joseph O'Brien
wrote:

On Jul 15, 3:25 am, mm wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:19:22 -0700, DerbyDad03
wrote:





On Jul 15, 12:02 am, Joseph O'Brien wrote:
On Jul 14, 6:16 pm, mm graced us with words
of wisdom:

Have you picked out a fan yet? I haven't done this but what is the
size of the ceiling part of the fan compared to the current box in the
ceiling. Might it be bigger?
Remember that fans don't cool the air. They only give a breeze, or so.

Oh, wait, fans make a breeze? I thought it was mostly just for
decoration and hanging stuff.

Of course I know fans don't cool the air. That's what we have A/C for.

-- Joe, RBM, Speedy Jim, thanks for contributing...
-- Joseph.

Hey mm, I think ya'll been dissed!

Yeah, the guy's an insecure jerk. Anyone who wasn't would just have
been grateful that I tried to help him.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hmm. No, I wasn't dissing everyone. Joe, RBM, and Speedy Jim actually
gave me some helpful advice, for which I thanked them. I followed
their recommendations, and was able to remove the box fairly easily.
First, I beat it with a hammer until it bent up towards the ceiling.
Eventually, the box split (glad I didn't hang a fan from it), so from
there, it was a combination of cutting away the excess plastic and
pulling out the nails. Overall, it was a fairly easy job. Having never
seen one of the new installation boxes from above, though, I wasn't
sure how they were attached, but it all makes sense now.

MM, maybe I misinterpretted your answer, but I thought you were being
a smart alec with the "fans don't cool comment."

Even if that line had been smart-alecky, I gave you good advice in the
first paragraph. Later I looked at two pages of images and the images
did not allow direct comparsion, but at least a few fans seem to have
bigger ceiling things than most boxes.

Figured you were
jabbing at me for not knowing how to remove the box.

I was suggesting you could enlarge the hole if the fan would cover a
bigger hole.


More than once people here have seemed to expect to much from fans,
and someone hase commented on it, pointing out the very same thing
that fans don't cool the room, they actually add heat. I am dubious
of the value of ceiling fans compared to table fans and other things,
but I chose not to second-guess your judgement, which struck me as
more nearly rude, and only deal with facts.

Guess I was wrong
about that.

And I guess you're not a jerk.

Sorry, and thanks.
Joseph.

You're welcome. Everything is fine now.

On Jul 16, 4:47 pm, mm wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:16:51 -0700, Joseph O'Brien





wrote:
On Jul 15, 3:25 am, mm wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:19:22 -0700, DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Jul 15, 12:02 am, Joseph O'Brien wrote:
On Jul 14, 6:16 pm, mm graced us with words
of wisdom:

Have you picked out a fan yet? I haven't done this but what is the
size of the ceiling part of the fan compared to the current box in the
ceiling. Might it be bigger?
Remember that fans don't cool the air. They only give a breeze, or so.

Oh, wait, fans make a breeze? I thought it was mostly just for
decoration and hanging stuff.

Of course I know fans don't cool the air. That's what we have A/C for.

-- Joe, RBM, Speedy Jim, thanks for contributing...
-- Joseph.

Hey mm, I think ya'll been dissed!

Yeah, the guy's an insecure jerk. Anyone who wasn't would just have
been grateful that I tried to help him.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hmm. No, I wasn't dissing everyone. Joe, RBM, and Speedy Jim actually
gave me some helpful advice, for which I thanked them. I followed
their recommendations, and was able to remove the box fairly easily.
First, I beat it with a hammer until it bent up towards the ceiling.
Eventually, the box split (glad I didn't hang a fan from it), so from
there, it was a combination of cutting away the excess plastic and
pulling out the nails. Overall, it was a fairly easy job. Having never
seen one of the new installation boxes from above, though, I wasn't
sure how they were attached, but it all makes sense now.

MM, maybe I misinterpretted your answer, but I thought you were being
a smart alec with the "fans don't cool comment."

Even if that line had been smart-alecky, I gave you good advice in the
first paragraph. Later I looked at two pages of images and the images
did not allow direct comparsion, but at least a few fans seem to have
bigger ceiling things than most boxes.

Figured you were
jabbing at me for not knowing how to remove the box.

I was suggesting you could enlarge the hole if the fan would cover a
bigger hole.

More than once people here have seemed to expect to much from fans,
and someone hase commented on it, pointing out the very same thing
that fans don't cool the room, they actually add heat. I am dubious
of the value of ceiling fans compared to table fans and other things,
but I chose not to second-guess your judgement, which struck me as
more nearly rude, and only deal with facts.

---- Guess I was wrong about that.

-- And I guess you're not a jerk.

---- Sorry, and thanks. Joseph.

-- You're welcome. Everything is fine now.

Hey, you guys aren't gonna start kissing or anything are ya? (Not that
there's anything wrong with that.)

replying to DerbyDad03, TC wrote:
teamarrows wrote:

---- Guess I was wrong about that.
-- And I guess you're not a jerk.
---- Sorry, and thanks. Joseph.
-- You're welcome. Everything is fine now.
Hey, you guys aren't gonna start kissing or anything are ya? (Not that
there's anything wrong with that.)



So if I can tear the old one out, how do I get a new one in? The old one
has 2 screw holes on one side and standard 1 on other side.

I'm trying to mount a recessed light that has nothches to fit only 1 on
each side. so need to put a new box in.


--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ow-234136-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 15:44:01 +0000, TC
wrote:

replying to DerbyDad03, TC wrote:
teamarrows wrote:

---- Guess I was wrong about that.
-- And I guess you're not a jerk.
---- Sorry, and thanks. Joseph.
-- You're welcome. Everything is fine now.
Hey, you guys aren't gonna start kissing or anything are ya? (Not that
there's anything wrong with that.)



So if I can tear the old one out, how do I get a new one in? The old one
has 2 screw holes on one side and standard 1 on other side.

I'm trying to mount a recessed light that has nothches to fit only 1 on
each side. so need to put a new box in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cut%...l=np&source=hp

On 10/09/2013 02:40 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 15:44:01 +0000, TC
wrote:

replying to DerbyDad03, TC wrote:
teamarrows wrote:

---- Guess I was wrong about that.
-- And I guess you're not a jerk.
---- Sorry, and thanks. Joseph.
-- You're welcome. Everything is fine now.
Hey, you guys aren't gonna start kissing or anything are ya? (Not that
there's anything wrong with that.)



So if I can tear the old one out, how do I get a new one in? The old one
has 2 screw holes on one side and standard 1 on other side.

I'm trying to mount a recessed light that has nothches to fit only 1 on
each side. so need to put a new box in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cut%...l=np&source=hp


I'd just use an old-work ceiling fan box, myself, in case you ever want
to hang a fan in that room you don't have to go back in. Assuming of
course this is a wood framed house.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73178-427-936_0__

Also, if there is no always hot wire in the box currently, you may want
to repull the cable from the switch, e.g. if it's 14/2WG repull with
14/3WG. You may need to bust the switch box out of the wall and replace
that with an old work box as well if you do that. I know that this is a
lot of work so if you know that you're never going to put a fan in that
room ignore me, but it is a nice option. I think it helped sell my last
house when I told the prospective buyers that two out of three bedrooms
were ready for ceiling fans.

For some reason only the last two posts are showing up on my news server
so I don't have context, what do you mean by "recessed light?" Maybe
you don't want a standard octagon box after all.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:27:05 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/09/2013 02:40 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 15:44:01 +0000, TC

wrote:



replying to DerbyDad03, TC wrote:

teamarrows wrote:



---- Guess I was wrong about that.

-- And I guess you're not a jerk.

---- Sorry, and thanks. Joseph.

-- You're welcome. Everything is fine now.

Hey, you guys aren't gonna start kissing or anything are ya? (Not that

there's anything wrong with that.)







So if I can tear the old one out, how do I get a new one in? The old one

has 2 screw holes on one side and standard 1 on other side.



I'm trying to mount a recessed light that has nothches to fit only 1 on

each side. so need to put a new box in.



https://www.google.com/search?q=cut%...l=np&source=hp





I'd just use an old-work ceiling fan box, myself, in case you ever want

to hang a fan in that room you don't have to go back in. Assuming of

course this is a wood framed house.



http://www.lowes.com/pd_73178-427-936_0__



Also, if there is no always hot wire in the box currently, you may want

to repull the cable from the switch, e.g. if it's 14/2WG repull with

14/3WG. You may need to bust the switch box out of the wall and replace

that with an old work box as well if you do that. I know that this is a

lot of work so if you know that you're never going to put a fan in that

room ignore me, but it is a nice option. I think it helped sell my last

house when I told the prospective buyers that two out of three bedrooms

were ready for ceiling fans.



For some reason only the last two posts are showing up on my news server

so I don't have context, what do you mean by "recessed light?" Maybe

you don't want a standard octagon box after all.



nate



This is a little weird, since it appears from the dating that TC
replied to a post from DerbyDad from 6 years ago.

But, I agree with you Nate. If it's a box for a light fixture,
he can put in an old work box, but he needs to make sure he buys
one that is rated for use to hold a light fixture. The cheapest,
plastic ones with ears, I don't believe are rated for that use.

If he has any possible desire for a fan there, he could prepare
for that with a box rated for such use.

And I don't understand the reference to a recessed fixture either.
The recessed fixtures I've worked with did not use a separate
box. The connection box was part of the recessed fixture itself.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:43:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
This is a little weird, since it appears from the dating that TC
replied to a post from DerbyDad from 6 years ago.

TC is posting from the Moaners Hub. Nuff said about that.

On to the new box. Ceiling fans require SECURE mounting unless you want a giant sparking propeller to drop on your dining table during a family dinner..

There are special mounting kits available for ceiling fans that can be installed through the old box hole. It consists of an expanding bar with cleats on the end. You slip the bar up in the hole, turn it so it's flat to the ceiling and perpendicular to the joists, and unscrew it until the cleats are firmly seated in the joists.

Then, you hang the box from the bar.

" wrote:
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:27:05 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/09/2013 02:40 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 15:44:01 +0000, TC

wrote:

replying to DerbyDad03, TC wrote:

teamarrows wrote:

---- Guess I was wrong about that.
-- And I guess you're not a jerk.
---- Sorry, and thanks. Joseph.
-- You're welcome. Everything is fine now.

Hey, you guys aren't gonna start kissing or anything are ya? (Not that
there's anything wrong with that.)

So if I can tear the old one out, how do I get a new one in? The old one
has 2 screw holes on one side and standard 1 on other side.
I'm trying to mount a recessed light that has nothches to fit only 1 on
each side. so need to put a new box in.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cut%...l=np&source=hp


I'd just use an old-work ceiling fan box, myself, in case you ever want
to hang a fan in that room you don't have to go back in. Assuming of
course this is a wood framed house.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73178-427-936_0__



Also, if there is no always hot wire in the box currently, you may want
to repull the cable from the switch, e.g. if it's 14/2WG repull with
14/3WG. You may need to bust the switch box out of the wall and replace
that with an old work box as well if you do that. I know that this is a
lot of work so if you know that you're never going to put a fan in that
room ignore me, but it is a nice option. I think it helped sell my last
house when I told the prospective buyers that two out of three bedrooms
were ready for ceiling fans.

For some reason only the last two posts are showing up on my news server
so I don't have context, what do you mean by "recessed light?" Maybe
you don't want a standard octagon box after all.

nate

This is a little weird, since it appears from the dating that TC
replied to a post from DerbyDad from 6 years ago.


My guess is that TC was searching for how to remove/install a junction box
and stumbled across the 2007 thread. You'll note the original thread was
about installing a fan box but TC wants to install a recessed light. Maybe
he didn't know (or care) that the original was 6 years old.

What's interesting is that GG groups shows the whole thread, but now that
I'm home and using NewsTap, the thread starts with TC's response.

If you click the link to HH, the whole thread is there.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 7:09:07 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
" wrote:

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:27:05 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 10/09/2013 02:40 PM, Metspitzer wrote:



On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 15:44:01 +0000, TC



wrote:



replying to DerbyDad03, TC wrote:



teamarrows wrote:



---- Guess I was wrong about that.

-- And I guess you're not a jerk.

---- Sorry, and thanks. Joseph.

-- You're welcome. Everything is fine now.



Hey, you guys aren't gonna start kissing or anything are ya? (Not that

there's anything wrong with that.)



So if I can tear the old one out, how do I get a new one in? The old one

has 2 screw holes on one side and standard 1 on other side.

I'm trying to mount a recessed light that has nothches to fit only 1 on

each side. so need to put a new box in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cut%...l=np&source=hp





I'd just use an old-work ceiling fan box, myself, in case you ever want

to hang a fan in that room you don't have to go back in. Assuming of

course this is a wood framed house.



http://www.lowes.com/pd_73178-427-936_0__







Also, if there is no always hot wire in the box currently, you may want

to repull the cable from the switch, e.g. if it's 14/2WG repull with

14/3WG. You may need to bust the switch box out of the wall and replace

that with an old work box as well if you do that. I know that this is a

lot of work so if you know that you're never going to put a fan in that

room ignore me, but it is a nice option. I think it helped sell my last

house when I told the prospective buyers that two out of three bedrooms

were ready for ceiling fans.



For some reason only the last two posts are showing up on my news server

so I don't have context, what do you mean by "recessed light?" Maybe

you don't want a standard octagon box after all.



nate



This is a little weird, since it appears from the dating that TC

replied to a post from DerbyDad from 6 years ago.





My guess is that TC was searching for how to remove/install a junction box

and stumbled across the 2007 thread. You'll note the original thread was

about installing a fan box but TC wants to install a recessed light. Maybe

he didn't know (or care) that the original was 6 years old.



What's interesting is that GG groups shows the whole thread, but now that

I'm home and using NewsTap, the thread starts with TC's response.



If you click the link to HH, the whole thread is there.

What's even more interesting is that you don't need
a box for a recessed light. At least not the ones
I've worked with. The romex goes into the fixture
itself which has it's own little connection box.

And as another thing to consider, if I was putting
in a recessed light today, I'd likely go with an LED one. You can get them now for $25 - $30.

replying to dennisgauge , TC wrote:


yes weird, the old post came up in a google search so just added on to it.
glad it worked.

Moaners Hub?

so, there was a flush mount light installed at location above sink. It
stopped working so I had to remove it and once it was out, liked the open
space look. So decided to look into a type of lighting that would be more
flush with the ceiling than standard globe lighting.

Came across a light at Home Depot that was in recessed/can lights section.
Designed so that base fits right into a round plastic box with notches to
accommodate the screw locations, but the box I still have in place has
different screw configurations. See photos.

Need to install a different style box, but concerned about taking the old
one out using methods stated in earlier posts. If I rip it out can I get a
new one back in its place? Maybe one with the side clamps would be ok.

Hope that helps clear things up, photos attached.





--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ow-234136-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

On 10/09/2013 07:15 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 7:09:07 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
" wrote:

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:27:05 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 10/09/2013 02:40 PM, Metspitzer wrote:



On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 15:44:01 +0000, TC



wrote:



replying to DerbyDad03, TC wrote:



teamarrows wrote:



---- Guess I was wrong about that.

-- And I guess you're not a jerk.

---- Sorry, and thanks. Joseph.

-- You're welcome. Everything is fine now.



Hey, you guys aren't gonna start kissing or anything are ya? (Not that

there's anything wrong with that.)



So if I can tear the old one out, how do I get a new one in? The old one

has 2 screw holes on one side and standard 1 on other side.

I'm trying to mount a recessed light that has nothches to fit only 1 on

each side. so need to put a new box in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cut%...l=np&source=hp





I'd just use an old-work ceiling fan box, myself, in case you ever want

to hang a fan in that room you don't have to go back in. Assuming of

course this is a wood framed house.



http://www.lowes.com/pd_73178-427-936_0__







Also, if there is no always hot wire in the box currently, you may want

to repull the cable from the switch, e.g. if it's 14/2WG repull with

14/3WG. You may need to bust the switch box out of the wall and replace

that with an old work box as well if you do that. I know that this is a

lot of work so if you know that you're never going to put a fan in that

room ignore me, but it is a nice option. I think it helped sell my last

house when I told the prospective buyers that two out of three bedrooms

were ready for ceiling fans.



For some reason only the last two posts are showing up on my news server

so I don't have context, what do you mean by "recessed light?" Maybe

you don't want a standard octagon box after all.



nate



This is a little weird, since it appears from the dating that TC

replied to a post from DerbyDad from 6 years ago.





My guess is that TC was searching for how to remove/install a junction box

and stumbled across the 2007 thread. You'll note the original thread was

about installing a fan box but TC wants to install a recessed light. Maybe

he didn't know (or care) that the original was 6 years old.



What's interesting is that GG groups shows the whole thread, but now that

I'm home and using NewsTap, the thread starts with TC's response.



If you click the link to HH, the whole thread is there.

What's even more interesting is that you don't need
a box for a recessed light. At least not the ones
I've worked with. The romex goes into the fixture
itself which has it's own little connection box.

And as another thing to consider, if I was putting
in a recessed light today, I'd likely go with an LED one. You can get them now for $25 - $30.


I'd go with the high CRI Cree ones, which are a little more expensive,
but yes, comment is still valid. You can't really make the case for
economics using regular cans and twisty CFLs, but the LEDs have a
more professional appearance AND the quality of light is vastly superior.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

What's even more interesting is that you don't need
a box for a recessed light. At least not the ones
I've worked with. The romex goes into the fixture
itself which has it's own little connection box.

And as another thing to consider, if I was putting
in a recessed light today, I'd likely go with an LED one. You can get them now for $25 - $30.


If he's using a *recessed* light he better get the
one rated properly for the placement IE:
insulation.

--
Tekkie

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 8:12:27 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
posted for all of us...



And I know how to SNIP



What's even more interesting is that you don't need

a box for a recessed light. At least not the ones

I've worked with. The romex goes into the fixture

itself which has it's own little connection box.



And as another thing to consider, if I was putting

in a recessed light today, I'd likely go with an LED one. You can get them now for $25 - $30.





If he's using a *recessed* light he better get the

one rated properly for the placement IE:

insulation.



--

Tekkie

Another good reason to use LEDs, they are rated
for direct contact. Also, if you have a cathedral
ceiling or otherwise limited space, the LED leave
room for a decent amount of insulation above the
fixture. All of the ones I've seen are relatively
airtight too and some of them meet the industry
spec for being airtight. Less energy for the light,
less air loss, more insulation.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 7:44:01 PM UTC-4, TC wrote:
replying to dennisgauge , TC wrote:





yes weird, the old post came up in a google search so just added on to it.

glad it worked.



Moaners Hub?



so, there was a flush mount light installed at location above sink. It

stopped working so I had to remove it and once it was out, liked the open

space look. So decided to look into a type of lighting that would be more

flush with the ceiling than standard globe lighting.



Came across a light at Home Depot that was in recessed/can lights section.

Designed so that base fits right into a round plastic box with notches to

accommodate the screw locations, but the box I still have in place has

different screw configurations. See photos.



Those boxes both seem to have holes in the same
places to me. I've yet to come across a light
fixture that didn't work with the screw holes
in existing boxes and that existing box you
have doesn't look unusual to me.

I still don't understand how a recessed light
can just attach to a box like that. How can it
be recessed? You have a link to the product?

And for sure, you're not going to get that
new side nail box that you posted in without
opening up the ceiling. They make old work
boxes that have ears or expansion widgets on
the side so they can go into a whole in the
ceiling about the size you have. But I think
until we see what it is that you want to install,
and better yet the instructions, we're just
shooting in the dark.






Need to install a different style box, but concerned about taking the old

one out using methods stated in earlier posts. If I rip it out can I get a

new one back in its place? Maybe one with the side clamps would be ok.


I think the likelihood of getting that old box out
without screwing up the ceiling is small. And if you're going to screw the ceiling, might as well just open up a section of drywall. Especially if it's just it's own small 2' x 4' section over a sink
and not the main ceiling.

On 10/09/2013 08:59 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 7:44:01 PM UTC-4, TC wrote:
replying to dennisgauge , TC wrote:





yes weird, the old post came up in a google search so just added on
to it.

glad it worked.



Moaners Hub?



so, there was a flush mount light installed at location above sink.
It

stopped working so I had to remove it and once it was out, liked
the open

space look. So decided to look into a type of lighting that would
be more

flush with the ceiling than standard globe lighting.



Came across a light at Home Depot that was in recessed/can lights
section.

Designed so that base fits right into a round plastic box with
notches to

accommodate the screw locations, but the box I still have in place
has

different screw configurations. See photos.



Those boxes both seem to have holes in the same places to me. I've
yet to come across a light fixture that didn't work with the screw
holes in existing boxes and that existing box you have doesn't look
unusual to me.

I still don't understand how a recessed light can just attach to a
box like that. How can it be recessed? You have a link to the
product?

And for sure, you're not going to get that new side nail box that you
posted in without opening up the ceiling. They make old work boxes
that have ears or expansion widgets on the side so they can go into a
whole in the ceiling about the size you have. But I think until we
see what it is that you want to install, and better yet the
instructions, we're just shooting in the dark.






Need to install a different style box, but concerned about taking
the old

one out using methods stated in earlier posts. If I rip it out can
I get a

new one back in its place? Maybe one with the side clamps would be
ok.


I think the likelihood of getting that old box out without screwing
up the ceiling is small. And if you're going to screw the ceiling,
might as well just open up a section of drywall. Especially if it's
just it's own small 2' x 4' section over a sink and not the main
ceiling.

Every time I've had to take a box out, it seems that it's been in a wall
or ceiling with a comb/sand finish or something like that. So I've
become rather good at knocking boxes out without disturbing the wall...

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

replying to Nate Nagel , TC wrote:

To those of you responding with helpful advice, here is pic of light and
description from Home Depot site. It is designed to slip inside the box
with the 2 screw posts pointing in.

\"The Disk Light can be installed in an existing recessed can or wherever
a 4 in. junction box is installed - making it extremely versatile for both
retro-fit and new installation.\"

The light is new from Home Depot. I may just try to bang out the old box.

Thanks for the help all. Oh and Derby Daddy, do you post any useful advice
or just read posts and provide worthless commentary?












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to home and garden related groups

OK first of all why won't the light fit on your old box? It looks like a standard plastic ceiling box - maybe attached the same way as the loose box you posted a pic of, so removing it might involve breaking it apart and/or using a hacksaw unless you just give up and bust up the drywall. Second, it'll be much easier to use either an 'old work box' or a metal box with a separate hanger bar if you do replace it, although I don't see the need...

On Monday, October 14, 2013 11:53:08 PM UTC-4, N8N wrote:
OK first of all why won't the light fit on your old box? It looks like a standard plastic ceiling box

I asked that question a week ago. He said something about
the holes not being in the right place. I said:

"Those boxes both seem to have holes in the same
places to me. I've yet to come across a light
fixture that didn't work with the screw holes
in existing boxes and that existing box you
have doesn't look unusual to me.

It's an interesting LED light that he's found. I've
never seen one like that. They call it recessed, but
it actually sticks out 2", but it does attach to a
4" ceiling box.

It think this is it on HD. If not, it's the same type.
If link doesn't work, you can search for disk light.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...2#.Ul1ExEvD9D8

wrote in message
...
On Monday, October 14, 2013 11:53:08 PM UTC-4, N8N wrote:
OK first of all why won't the light fit on your old box? It looks like a
standard plastic ceiling box

I asked that question a week ago. He said something about
the holes not being in the right place. I said:

"Those boxes both seem to have holes in the same
places to me. I've yet to come across a light
fixture that didn't work with the screw holes
in existing boxes and that existing box you
have doesn't look unusual to me.

It's an interesting LED light that he's found. I've
never seen one like that. They call it recessed, but
it actually sticks out 2", but it does attach to a
4" ceiling box.

It think this is it on HD. If not, it's the same type.
If link doesn't work, you can search for disk light.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...2#.Ul1ExEvD9D8

Take a look at: http://www.lsgc.com/fixtures/glimpse/ Is this what you're
talking about? If so, it's an award-winning product from the 2012 Lighting
for Tomorrow Competition ( www.lightingfortomorrow.com ). Nice idea to
make it screw onto a J-Box and it looks better than a bare 40 or 60-watt
bulb.

Tomsic

TC wrote:
replying to Nate Nagel , TC wrote:

To those of you responding with helpful advice, here is pic of light and
description from Home Depot site. It is designed to slip inside the box
with the 2 screw posts pointing in.

\"The Disk Light can be installed in an existing recessed can or wherever
a 4 in. junction box is installed - making it extremely versatile for both
retro-fit and new installation.\"

The light is new from Home Depot. I may just try to bang out the old box.

Thanks for the help all. Oh and Derby Daddy, do you post any useful advice
or just read posts and provide worthless commentary?













What the heck is your problem?

You replied to a post I made 6 years ago. When someone brought that up, I
merely mentioned that you were probably searching for information and came
across a old thread. Whats your problem with that?

replying to N8N , TC wrote:
trader4 wrote:

I asked that question a week ago. He said something about
the holes not being in the right place.



It however does not fit the box I have installed now (notice difference in
screw placements).

that is what prompted the question about difficulty of removing the
existing one and installing a new one in its place.

yes, that is the same light from HD. Thanks for the link to lsgc.com.








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using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

replying to DerbyDad03 , TC wrote:
teamarrows wrote:

What the heck is your problem?
You replied to a post I made 6 years ago. When someone brought that up, I
merely mentioned that you were probably searching for information and came
across a old thread. Whats your problem with that?



you come across as condescending. leave it at that.

--
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to home and garden related groups

On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:00:12 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
TC wrote:

replying to Nate Nagel , TC wrote:



To those of you responding with helpful advice, here is pic of light and

description from Home Depot site. It is designed to slip inside the box

with the 2 screw posts pointing in.



\"The Disk Light can be installed in an existing recessed can or wherever

a 4 in. junction box is installed - making it extremely versatile for both

retro-fit and new installation.\"



The light is new from Home Depot. I may just try to bang out the old box.

On 10/16/2013 11:44 AM, TC wrote:
replying to N8N , TC wrote:
trader4 wrote:

I asked that question a week ago. He said something about the holes
not being in the right place.



It however does not fit the box I have installed now (notice difference in
screw placements).

that is what prompted the question about difficulty of removing the
existing one and installing a new one in its place.

yes, that is the same light from HD. Thanks for the link to lsgc.com.









Can you post a picture of the light? I'm still not understanding how it
couldn't fit, all the pics you've posted are of pretty standard ceiling
boxes and a ceiling light intended for mounting on a box ought to fit
all of them.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

replying to Nate Nagel , TC wrote:
njnagel wrote:

Can you post a picture of the light? I'm still not understanding how it
couldn't fit, all the pics you've posted are of pretty standard ceiling
boxes and a ceiling light intended for mounting on a box ought to fit
all of them.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel




the light slips into the box, has 2 notches on sides, both the same. the
box with the different hole placements does not fit into notches on light.

--
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to home and garden related groups

On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:22:00 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 10/16/2013 11:44 AM, TC wrote:
replying to N8N , TC wrote:
trader4 wrote:

I asked that question a week ago. He said something about the holes
not being in the right place.



It however does not fit the box I have installed now (notice difference in
screw placements).

that is what prompted the question about difficulty of removing the
existing one and installing a new one in its place.

yes, that is the same light from HD. Thanks for the link to lsgc.com.









Can you post a picture of the light? I'm still not understanding how it
couldn't fit, all the pics you've posted are of pretty standard ceiling
boxes and a ceiling light intended for mounting on a box ought to fit
all of them.

nate
I am just stepping into the conversation now - without seeing all the
history - but lamp canopies do NOT fit the cover holes of round or
octagon ceiling boxes. That is what the T-Bar (or cross bar) is for.
The bar fastens to the box. With or without a fixture tube, the
fixture fastens to the cross bar, and the canopy, if it screws to the
mounting, is screwed to the cross bar - NOT to the box.

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:22:00 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/16/2013 11:44 AM, TC wrote:

replying to N8N , TC wrote:

trader4 wrote:



I asked that question a week ago. He said something about the holes

not being in the right place.







It however does not fit the box I have installed now (notice difference in

screw placements).



that is what prompted the question about difficulty of removing the

existing one and installing a new one in its place.



yes, that is the same light from HD. Thanks for the link to lsgc.com.



















Can you post a picture of the light? I'm still not understanding how it

couldn't fit, all the pics you've posted are of pretty standard ceiling

boxes and a ceiling light intended for mounting on a box ought to fit

all of them.



nate



--

replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.

http://members.cox.net/njnagel

He posted a pic of the light already, but it's just a pic
of the outside of the light. What he should post is the
link to the light at HD, the install instructions,
something that shows why the mount for the new light
won't fit the current box.
I went to HD website and they have
a couple that look like it. It's not really recessed, it
sticks out 2" and it's LED. So that apparently gives
them enough room for the power supply. That explains
how a "recessed" light can go on a box like that. It's
not really recessed. The one I saw
at HD online didn't have install instructions or anything that
showed the back of the light, how it connects, etc.

In the beginning, he posted a pic of the current box and
his new proposed box. He keeps saying the holes are
in different locations, but from the pic, they seemed
the same to me. The other obvious problem is his
proposed box is the nail in style and we all know that
isnt' going in, unless he tears open the drywall. He
needs an old work box that's rated to hold a fixture.
That assumes he can get the existing box out without
opening the drywall.

But before we get to all that, I'm with you. That old
box is plastic, which means it's not some strange 100
year old box. I've yet to see a box that looked like
that which would not connect to a common light fixture.

On 10/17/2013 09:09 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:22:00 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/16/2013 11:44 AM, TC wrote:

replying to N8N , TC wrote:

trader4 wrote:



I asked that question a week ago. He said something about the holes

not being in the right place.







It however does not fit the box I have installed now (notice difference in

screw placements).



that is what prompted the question about difficulty of removing the

existing one and installing a new one in its place.



yes, that is the same light from HD. Thanks for the link to lsgc.com.



















Can you post a picture of the light? I'm still not understanding how it

couldn't fit, all the pics you've posted are of pretty standard ceiling

boxes and a ceiling light intended for mounting on a box ought to fit

all of them.



nate



--

replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.

http://members.cox.net/njnagel

He posted a pic of the light already, but it's just a pic
of the outside of the light. What he should post is the
link to the light at HD, the install instructions,
something that shows why the mount for the new light
won't fit the current box.

I poked around the HD site, couldn't find anything. Looks like a
Cree-made product (good, probably high CRI) but I also couldn't find a
picture of anything other than the room side of the light, or any
installation instructions.

I went to HD website and they have
a couple that look like it. It's not really recessed, it
sticks out 2" and it's LED. So that apparently gives
them enough room for the power supply. That explains
how a "recessed" light can go on a box like that. It's
not really recessed. The one I saw
at HD online didn't have install instructions or anything that
showed the back of the light, how it connects, etc.

In the beginning, he posted a pic of the current box and
his new proposed box. He keeps saying the holes are
in different locations, but from the pic, they seemed
the same to me. The other obvious problem is his
proposed box is the nail in style and we all know that
isnt' going in, unless he tears open the drywall. He
needs an old work box that's rated to hold a fixture.
That assumes he can get the existing box out without
opening the drywall.

But before we get to all that, I'm with you. That old
box is plastic, which means it's not some strange 100
year old box. I've yet to see a box that looked like
that which would not connect to a common light fixture.


Worst case scenario, since after my original post suggesting a fan box,
he's clarified that this is over a kitchen sink, so no need for a fan
rated box. At this point I would bust out the old box if it really
won't work, and go buy a metal octagon box and a steel hanger (e.g. Raco
8325 - that's the NM cable version, if your house uses armored cable,
you'd need a box with different cable clamps but it would look simlar)
and install that through the 4" hole in the drywall. It'll be a pain in
the ass, as it will require screwing the hanger to the joists by hand
with a plain old screwdriver through a really small hole, but if that
doesn't work, the light really doesn't fit a "standard ceiling box."

I'd still like a picture of *why* it won't work, though, because a) I'm
just naturally curious and b) understanding it more fully might help
come up with a more creative solution.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 10:35:38 AM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/17/2013 09:09 AM, wrote:

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:22:00 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 10/16/2013 11:44 AM, TC wrote:



replying to N8N , TC wrote:



trader4 wrote:







I asked that question a week ago. He said something about the holes



not being in the right place.















It however does not fit the box I have installed now (notice difference in



screw placements).







that is what prompted the question about difficulty of removing the



existing one and installing a new one in its place.







yes, that is the same light from HD. Thanks for the link to lsgc.com.







































Can you post a picture of the light? I'm still not understanding how it



couldn't fit, all the pics you've posted are of pretty standard ceiling



boxes and a ceiling light intended for mounting on a box ought to fit



all of them.







nate







--



replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.



http://members.cox.net/njnagel



He posted a pic of the light already, but it's just a pic

of the outside of the light. What he should post is the

link to the light at HD, the install instructions,

something that shows why the mount for the new light

won't fit the current box.



I poked around the HD site, couldn't find anything. Looks like a

Cree-made product (good, probably high CRI) but I also couldn't find a

picture of anything other than the room side of the light, or any

installation instructions.



I went to HD website and they have

a couple that look like it. It's not really recessed, it

sticks out 2" and it's LED. So that apparently gives

them enough room for the power supply. That explains

how a "recessed" light can go on a box like that. It's

not really recessed. The one I saw

at HD online didn't have install instructions or anything that

showed the back of the light, how it connects, etc.



In the beginning, he posted a pic of the current box and

his new proposed box. He keeps saying the holes are

in different locations, but from the pic, they seemed

the same to me. The other obvious problem is his

proposed box is the nail in style and we all know that

isnt' going in, unless he tears open the drywall. He

needs an old work box that's rated to hold a fixture.

That assumes he can get the existing box out without

opening the drywall.



But before we get to all that, I'm with you. That old

box is plastic, which means it's not some strange 100

year old box. I've yet to see a box that looked like

that which would not connect to a common light fixture.





Worst case scenario, since after my original post suggesting a fan box,

he's clarified that this is over a kitchen sink, so no need for a fan

rated box. At this point I would bust out the old box if it really

won't work, and go buy a metal octagon box and a steel hanger (e.g. Raco

8325 - that's the NM cable version, if your house uses armored cable,

you'd need a box with different cable clamps but it would look simlar)

and install that through the 4" hole in the drywall. It'll be a pain in

the ass, as it will require screwing the hanger to the joists by hand

with a plain old screwdriver through a really small hole, but if that

doesn't work, the light really doesn't fit a "standard ceiling box."


Why does he need to do that instead of just using one of
the old work boxes that are rated for holding fixtures up
to a few pounds? It just goes in the hole and has tabs that
you then expand out by turning screws to hold it in. That
of course assumes the existing hole isn't too big to fit
said new box.

I've never tried to get an old box out like that, but
if it's nailed in there good, I would think it would be
a bitch to do without damaging the drywall. And if you
can't use an old work box, then it's gonna be a bitch
getting the new one in.
Which is why I said if it was in it's own
separate little ceiling space above the sink, like in a
lot of houses that I've seen, another option
is to just take out a piece of drywall. It's not such a
big deal.
If it's part of the main ceiling, then it becomes more
involved, ie you'd have to paint the whole ceiling, etc.

I think he took down the original pics he put up.
But he had a pic of the old box and the proposed new
box, which was the nail in type. He said that you
can see that the holes are in different locations. I
looked at the two pics and they both seemed to have
holes in the same places, like the boxes we're all
familiar with. And he never gave any more specifics
other than that. Even if the holes are in different
spots, one would think you could make an interposer
if you will, eg a strip of metal or something that
could adapt it. I wonder if this could be a USA/CA
thing, metric issue of something?

IDK, but like I said, I've never seen a modern plastic
box like that where it would not fit to a new
standard light fixture. If he could take some pics
of how it mounts, the backside, bracket, whatever
and tell us exactly what doesn't line up with what
maybe there is a solution.





I'd still like a picture of *why* it won't work, though, because a) I'm

just naturally curious and b) understanding it more fully might help

come up with a more creative solution.



nate





--

replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.

http://members.cox.net/njnagel

TC wrote:
replying to DerbyDad03 , TC wrote:
teamarrows wrote:

What the heck is your problem?
You replied to a post I made 6 years ago. When someone brought that up, I
merely mentioned that you were probably searching for information and came
across a old thread. Whats your problem with that?



you come across as condescending. leave it at that.

That's funny. You took my comment completely wrong, insulted me and called
me out directly. Then when I point out your error, you once again comment
on my posts and suggest (demand?) I "leave it at that".

Look, you misunderstood a post that was nothing more than an explanation as
to why someone would reply to a 6 year old thread. What you should have
taken as being in defense of you, you took as condescending. That, my
friend, is on you, not me.

Feel free to leave it at that...or not.

replying to DerbyDad03 , TC wrote:
teamarrows wrote:

That's funny. You took my comment completely wrong, insulted me and called
me out directly. Then when I point out your error, you once again comment
on my posts and suggest (demand?) I "leave it at that".
Look, you misunderstood a post that was nothing more than an explanation
as
to why someone would reply to a 6 year old thread. What you should have
taken as being in defense of you, you took as condescending. That, my
friend, is on you, not me.
Feel free to leave it at that...or not.



you don't give any advice, just commentary. why not find another place to
do that.

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