Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

On May 7, 12:29�pm, "Robert11" wrote:
Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. *This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating

On May 7, 12:30 pm, " wrote:
On May 7, 12:29?pm, "Robert11" wrote:



Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. ?This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating


Don't believe voltage changes with load. Amperage is number to
deteriorate.
Electromotive potential determines voltage. If you open up a standard
9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from. Alkaline
batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old carbon/zinc
batteries.

"Frank" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 7, 12:30 pm, " wrote:
On May 7, 12:29?pm, "Robert11" wrote:



Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few
different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V
they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. ?This is
under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when
the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating


Don't believe voltage changes with load. Amperage is number to
deteriorate.

You're kidding right? Amperage goes up with load. Amperage IS load. Where
capacity is limited, no load voltage will always be higher than loaded
voltage.
Amperage goes down with resistance; is that what you meant?

Electromotive potential determines voltage. If you open up a standard
9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from. Alkaline
batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old carbon/zinc
batteries.

If you open up a battery you will find cells. That is the definition of a
battery; a group of cells. I expect there are instances where you would
find batteries in batteries, but that would be unusual.

In article om, Frank wrote:


Don't believe voltage changes with load.

Don't believe you've ever checked that with a voltmeter... or read Ohm's Law,
either.

Amperage is number to
deteriorate.

Incorrect -- voltage drops across a load. That's pretty basic circuit theory.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mon, 7 May 2007 12:29:11 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. This is under
no load.


A battery cell is a chemical cell. The voltage generated varies with
the chemical concentrations and will decrease gradually from its peak
voltage until it is near chemically exhausted at which time there will
be a sharper drop. At exhaustion there will be chemical reaction
products that cause corrosion. The devices you use should be able to
operate at plus or minus 2 volts of the 9 volt nominal rating.

You're kidding right? Amperage goes up with load. Amperage IS load.
Where
capacity is limited, no load voltage will always be higher than loaded
voltage.

Capacity is always limited. Voltage only stays constant with load with
voltage regulated supplies that are not loaded to capacity.

To "load" something means to increase the current flowing through it.
Amperage does indeed go up with load (usually).

Put a volt meter across your 12V car battery. If it reads 12V, your battery
is "dead" and probably won't start the engine. An open circuit car battery
in good condition that hasn't been recently charged will have ~12.6 V.
across the terminals.

On Mon, 7 May 2007 12:29:11 -0400, Robert11 wrote:

Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

9V rating is approximate. A new battery will measure higher, especially
when a VOM with a very high impedance is used.

On 7 May 2007 09:54:11 -0700, Frank wrote:

On May 7, 12:30 pm, " wrote:
On May 7, 12:29?pm, "Robert11" wrote:

Don't believe voltage changes with load.

Because a battery has an internal resistance, when placed in a circuit with
a load, it's effective (which is what you will measure with a meter)
voltage will drop.

"Frank" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 7, 12:30 pm, " wrote:
On May 7, 12:29?pm, "Robert11" wrote:



Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few
different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V
they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. ?This is
under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when
the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating


Don't believe voltage changes with load. Amperage is number to
deteriorate.
Electromotive potential determines voltage. If you open up a standard
9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from. Alkaline
batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old carbon/zinc
batteries.

Battery voltage is only "nominal" or approximate. An old type battery, a
carbon/zinc was nominally rated at 1.5 volts but actually under no load put
out 1.7 volts, other types will vary. A car lead/acid battery actually puts
out 2.2 volts per cell. When cars used 6 volt batteries they used 3 cells
which actually gave 6.6 volts or a nominal 6 volts. Today's car batteries
out a nominal 12 volts which is actually 14.2 volts.

Silly question: What standard do you use to check the calibration of your
VOM? Beside the usual manufacturing tolerance it is likely subject to
getting knocked around. That doesn't help accuracy either.

Charlie

"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. This is
under no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

Frank wrote:
....


Don't believe voltage changes with load.

Since the battery has resistance as the load increases the voltage will
drop. If the battery had no resistance you would be correct.

My guess is the OP is using a digital meter and is finding he gets
different results since the resistance of the meter is so much higher than
the old analog meters. Of course part of the problem is likely to be as you
correctly pointed out the measured voltage of different kinds of batteries
varies.

Amperage is number to
deteriorate.
Electromotive potential determines voltage. If you open up a standard
9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from. Alkaline
batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old carbon/zinc
batteries.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

On May 7, 1:12 pm, "Toller" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

ps.com...



On May 7, 12:30 pm, " wrote:
On May 7, 12:29?pm, "Robert11" wrote:

Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few
different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V
they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. ?This is
under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when
the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating

Don't believe voltage changes with load. Amperage is number to
deteriorate.

You're kidding right? Amperage goes up with load. Amperage IS load. Where
capacity is limited, no load voltage will always be higher than loaded
voltage.
Amperage goes down with resistance; is that what you meant?

Electromotive potential determines voltage. If you open up a standard
9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from. Alkaline
batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old carbon/zinc
batteries.

If you open up a battery you will find cells. That is the definition of a
battery; a group of cells. I expect there are instances where you would
find batteries in batteries, but that would be unusual.

I was trying to address the battery chemistry itself. Available
voltage depends on the cell potential, i.e. the redox chemistry of the
chemical electrodes. The best you can do with chemicals is about 6
volts. This is why you need cells in series.

There is a concentration dependence which accounts for voltage drop
with time. But amperage is dependent on the total concentration of
ingredients. You look at it like water pressure through large and
small pipes. At equal pressure, you're going to get a lot more water
through the big pipe. That's amperage. If all you needed was
voltage, then you could replace the big lead acid battery in your car
with eight triple A rechargeable batteries.

That said, I put my VOM to a new 9 volt alkaline battery and it
measured 9 volts. Did not leave it hooked up to see how long that
would last. I did note that a lot of newer rechargeable batteries are
less than the voltage of the batteries they replace. Most modern
stuff will handle them.

Frank

On 7 May 2007 09:54:11 -0700, Frank wrote:

On May 7, 12:30 pm, " wrote:
On May 7, 12:29?pm, "Robert11" wrote:



Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. ?This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating


Don't believe voltage changes with load. Amperage is number to
deteriorate.

That would be an IDEAL voltage source (and, of course, ideal things
aren't).

A REAL voltage source behaves as an ideal voltage source in series
with a resistor. This resistance (the cell resistance, not a separate
component) is in series with the load. In this way, voltage at the
battery terminals will vary with load. As the battery discharges, its
internal resistance increases, causing a greater voltage drop when a
load is applied.

Electromotive potential determines voltage.but

Not "determines", "is". "Voltage" is a name for electromotive
potential. This explains the use of the symbol 'E' for voltage.

If you open up a standard
9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from. Alkaline
batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old carbon/zinc
batteries.

True of fully charged cells with no load, although the numbers ARE
approximate.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

If you open up a battery you will find cells. That is the definition
of a battery; a group of cells. I expect there are instances where
you would find batteries in batteries, but that would be unusual.

I agree with you in principle but I've come to accept the fact that
definitions evolve and words mean what people want them to mean. Thus (and
unfortunately) it has become acceptable to refer to a single power cell as
a battery.

One would hope, however, that when the apparently indivisible (to a
layperson) unit is indeed composed of several sub-units (and by this I mean
car batteries, 9V batteries, etc.) we might at least in this instance
continue to refer to the sub-units as cells and not batteries within
batteries!

But it's an unwinnable war. Someday I fully expect the term "it's" to
become fully acceptable in standard English in the possessive sense and
then the barbarians will have won. In the meantime I wish web forum
software would come with a plug-in that would, on displaying posted text,
randomly convert "it's" into "it is". Correct users will still be correct
if a bit stilted. Incorrect users will be made to look moronic.

One would hope, however, that when the apparently indivisible (to a
layperson) unit is indeed composed of several sub-units (and by this I
mean
car batteries, 9V batteries, etc.) we might at least in this instance
continue to refer to the sub-units as cells and not batteries within
batteries!

That was pretty much my point. I don't take issue with D-cells being
called batteries.

On 7 May 2007 09:54:11 -0700, Frank wrote:

On May 7, 12:30 pm, " wrote:
On May 7, 12:29?pm, "Robert11" wrote:



Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. ?This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Not me, but I haven't been measuring lately. See further down.

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating


Don't believe voltage changes with load.

Batteries themselves have internal resistance. I suppose, if you
measure the amperage in the circuit, and you measure the difference in
battery voltage with no current, and the battery voltage with that
amperage, you can find the voltage drop and calculate the internal
resistance. Although I'm not sure if it constant at all current
levels.

Amperage is number to
deteriorate.
Electromotive potential determines voltage. If you open up a standard
9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from. Alkaline
batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old carbon/zinc
batteries.

Different chemical reactions create different voltages. There are
chemical reactions at both poles of a cell, and the sum of the two
voltages with carbon-zinc batteries is about 1.5. When they wanted
to make other kinds of batteries, that would be the same size and work
in the same devices that carbon-zinc batteries did, they tried to come
up with pairs of reactions that would also total 1.5 or close.

I'm wondering if the batteries that Robert1 has might have been made
with different from the normal chemicals, to save money I suppose, and
that is why their voltage is so high. Sort of like some Chinese
manufacturer put melamine in dog food to raise the apparent protein
content. (Because melamine has some ingredient that increases some
measurement on tests.)

R, you say a bunch of different brands. Does that include name
brands? What brands? Lots of off brands are made by the same
company. Even name brands can be forged, or some manager might do
something to make extra for himself.

Steve Kraus wrote:
But it's an unwinnable war. Someday I fully expect the term "it's" to
become fully acceptable in standard English in the possessive sense and
then the barbarians will have won.

To each hi's own.

--
Postulate a God who's so smart He designed things we won't discover for the
next ten years, but who's so incredibly stupid He couldn't think up the
theory of evolution. Duhhhhhhhh. "Damn, Darwin, what a great idea!"

I have not seen an increase in 9 volt
batteries, etc. I would check your meter.
I have seen new ones reading as high at
9.5, but that's about it. BTW, new
digital meters are getting pretty cheap
these days. I picked up a real nice one
from Electronic Goldmine for about $13
when it was on sale. I actually like
it better than my Fluke because it is
smaller and has a continuity beeper. And
it appears to be very accurate.

Robert11 wrote:
Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

Robert11 wrote:
Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob


Hi,
How accurate is your meter? Sounds like it is out of calibration.
Clue is different betteries showing same sort of reading.

Frank wrote:

On May 7, 12:30 pm, " wrote:

On May 7, 12:29?pm, "Robert11" wrote:




Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. ?This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating



Don't believe voltage changes with load. Amperage is number to
deteriorate.
Electromotive potential determines voltage. If you open up a standard
9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from. Alkaline
batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old carbon/zinc
batteries.

Hmmm.,
Trying to reinvent Ohm's law?

Tony Hwang wrote:

Robert11 wrote:

Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few
different brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that
instead of 9V they have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0
to 10.25. This is under no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when
the batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

Hi,
How accurate is your meter? Sounds like it is out of calibration.
Clue is different betteries showing same sort of reading.
Hi,
My main bench meter is lab grade calibrated Fluke. I check other meters
against it to see how reasonably accurate it is. I still use old work
horse Simpson 260 on many occasions where low impedance meter input is
needed like on household AC power wiring.

A friend of mine moved into a new trailer last weekend. The fire
alarms were chirping, so I took out all the the batteries and
tripped off the breaker.

Four batteries were running high voltage (carbon cells) and the
alkaline was running a bit low. Wonder if that's related some
how?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
: Hello:
:
: Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few
different
: brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead
of 9V they
: have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25.
This is under
: no load.
:
: Anyone else notice this ?
:
: Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems
I've been
: having with my fire alarms
: giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?
:
: It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives
when the
: batteries are low.
:
: Thanks,
: Bob
:
:

I've found that voltage reduces as load (amperage usage)
increases.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Frank" wrote in message
ps.com...
:
: Don't believe voltage changes with load. Amperage is number to
: deteriorate.
: Electromotive potential determines voltage. If you open up a
standard
: 9 volt battery you will find 6 1.5 volt batteries in series.
: Battery's voltage will depend on materials it is made from.
Alkaline
: batteries will vary from the standard 1.5 volts of old
carbon/zinc
: batteries.
:

Steve Kraus wrote:

Someday I fully expect the term "it's" to
become fully acceptable in standard English in the possessive sense and
then the barbarians will have won. In the meantime I wish web forum
software would come with a plug-in that would, on displaying posted text,
randomly convert "it's" into "it is". Correct users will still be correct
if a bit stilted. Incorrect users will be made to look moronic.

That is not always true. For example:

It's come to my attention that. . .

In this case "It's" means "It has"
--
I don't understand why they make gourmet cat foods. I have
known many cats in my life and none of them were gourmets.
They were all gourmands!

wrote:
On May 7, 12:29�pm, "Robert11" wrote:
Hello:

Have been buying a bunch of those standard 9V batteries (a few different
brands) over the past few months, and have noticed that instead of 9V they
have been measuring out, with a VOM, at around 10.0 to 10.25. �This is under
no load.

Anyone else notice this ?

Was wondering if this might be the cause of all the problems I've been
having with my fire alarms
giving 3 to 4 chirps, around once a day ?

It's probably the same type of chirp signal that the unit gives when the
batteries are low.

Thanks,
Bob

I doubt thats it, under load the voltage drops fast,

Have you blown the fire alarms out with compressed air....

They might be overheating

OVERHEATING????? Geez from what hollerbutt?