I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!

I can think of a couple options. You can put a surge protector at the
service panel so the whole house would be protected. This is expensive
but nowhere near $12K. I would guess it's under $1K. To answer your
question, yes you can ground certain outlets but in the future that
would present a problem if you tried to sell the house. Once you
initiate an upgrade like that you're required to bring all the wiring
up to code. You didn't mention what kind of wiring you have. Do you
know if it's in conduit (looks like steel water pipe), romex (looks
like a white extension cord), bx (looks like a flexible metal snake).
I'd get another contractor to look at it, but don't tell them what the
other person said.


On May 2, 11:46 am, wrote:
I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!

On 2 May 2007 09:46:51 -0700, wrote:

I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!


I'd ignore the existing wiring, and run a new grounded
circut to wherever I want to put equipment that needs
to be protected. That should work out to an entertainment
center and a computer workstation, right? and/or For much less
amount of money you're talking about for the whole house,
you could easily install protection at the service panel,
which will protect you against any event originating
outside the house. (Which is most of them.)

Over time, I'd think about replacing the existing
receptacles with GFCIs, which will give you
reasonable shock protection for people, but won't
do much for equipment.

On May 2, 1:36 pm, MarkL wrote:
I can think of a couple options. You can put a surge protector at the
service panel so the whole house would be protected. This is expensive
but nowhere near $12K. I would guess it's under $1K. To answer your
question, yes you can ground certain outlets but in the future that
would present a problem if you tried to sell the house. Once you
initiate an upgrade like that you're required to bring all the wiring
up to code. You didn't mention what kind of wiring you have. Do you
know if it's in conduit (looks like steel water pipe), romex (looks
like a white extension cord), bx (looks like a flexible metal snake).
I'd get another contractor to look at it, but don't tell them what the
other person said.

On May 2, 11:46 am, wrote:



I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for your response. The surge protector option sounds really
great!

The wiring running to the receptacles and switches is a really thick,
black cord.
(Sorry if this is not helpful - I have really limited knowledge).

Thanks again for your help. I'll get someone else to look at it

Note that Romex installed in the 1950s will NOT look like white extension
cord. It will be covered with tarred braid and look like a stiff flattened
black extension cord. Since then many colours have been used, in my house
built in 1970 I have black, blue, brown, orange as well as the current vinyl
covered Romex with white, orange and red covering. They are now using the
covering colour to indicate the wire gauge such as yellow for 12 ga. Earlier
it was the colour of the manufacturer's brand, like with power tools.


"MarkL" wrote in message
ups.com...
I can think of a couple options. You can put a surge protector at the
service panel so the whole house would be protected. This is expensive
but nowhere near $12K. I would guess it's under $1K. To answer your
question, yes you can ground certain outlets but in the future that
would present a problem if you tried to sell the house. Once you
initiate an upgrade like that you're required to bring all the wiring
up to code. You didn't mention what kind of wiring you have. Do you
know if it's in conduit (looks like steel water pipe), romex (looks
like a white extension cord), bx (looks like a flexible metal snake).
I'd get another contractor to look at it, but don't tell them what the
other person said.


On May 2, 11:46 am, wrote:
I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!

On May 2, 1:37 pm, wrote:
On May 2, 1:36 pm, MarkL wrote:



I can think of a couple options. You can put a surge protector at the
service panel so the whole house would be protected. This is expensive
but nowhere near $12K. I would guess it's under $1K. To answer your
question, yes you can ground certain outlets but in the future that
would present a problem if you tried to sell the house. Once you
initiate an upgrade like that you're required to bring all the wiring
up to code. You didn't mention what kind of wiring you have. Do you
know if it's in conduit (looks like steel water pipe), romex (looks
like a white extension cord), bx (looks like a flexible metal snake).
I'd get another contractor to look at it, but don't tell them what the
other person said.

On May 2, 11:46 am, wrote:

I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for your response. The surge protector option sounds really
great!

The wiring running to the receptacles and switches is a really thick,
black cord.
(Sorry if this is not helpful - I have really limited knowledge).

Thanks again for your help. I'll get someone else to look at it

Go w/ Goedjn's advice would be mine. Adding a circuit or adding a
ground to an existing circuit as opposed to rewiring the whole house
is possible and in most locations will not incur a need to bring the
whole house to current code if, as your electrician has already
attested, it is not a safety hazard. IMO it won't make any effect on
a future sale relative to the existing condition -- if anything, it
will be a step forward although not a complete trip to nirvana,
obviously.

wrote:
I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!



I have a house built in 1949, and the upstairs is all wired very
professionally with 12 gauge ungrounded cable. The basement was
obviously wired later, poorly, using a mixture of #12 grounded Romex and
#12 grounded UF cable.

I've been grounding the upstairs outlets one-at-a-time by drilling a
little hole in the wall plate and running a green #12 wire back to the
panel. I'm trying to get one or two grounded outlet in each room.
There's no need for bedroom convenience outlets to be grounded, nor the
one in the living room behind the couch, etc.

The new circuits I've added are grounded, of course.

Bob

$12000!!!??? Is it a 15 bedroom mansion?

--
Steve Barker




wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!


$12000!!!??? Is it a 15 bedroom mansion?

--
Steve Barker


Not a surprising estimate, considering how some contractors pull prices out
of their asses. I was quoted $1800.00 and $800.00 for changing a few iron
pipes to PVC in the basement under my bathroom. Two weeks ago, another
plumber (husband of a friend) stopped by, took a look, and said "This is a
breeze. $200.00, and you provide coffee. See ya Saturday morning" Took him
an hour, and he did a great job. I mentioned the other estimates. He said
"Some of these guys are friggin' crazy".

wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!


Upgrading to a 200 Amp service with all new wiring and grounding electrode
system is an excellent investment in convenience and safety, but 12K seems
high.
You'd darn well better be getting everything I mentioned for that price.
Shop around and get at least 3 bids, references, and most importantly, check
the references.
Make SURE the contractor pulls a permit and the work is inspected per 2005
NEC. Money's too hard to come by, and it's too easy to get hosed. Do your
homework well before laying out the cash.

Good Luck!

On May 2, 9:37 pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!

Upgrading to a 200 Amp service with all new wiring and grounding electrode
system is an excellent investment in convenience and safety, but 12K seems
high.
You'd darn well better be getting everything I mentioned for that price.
Shop around and get at least 3 bids, references, and most importantly, check
the references.
Make SURE the contractor pulls a permit and the work is inspected per 2005
NEC. Money's too hard to come by, and it's too easy to get hosed. Do your
homework well before laying out the cash.

Good Luck!

Haha...no, it's nowhere near a mansion. It's a 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 1900
square foot house. Moreover, a lot of the drywall is off the walls so
a lot of the wiring is exposed. I'm glad to hear you guys say that it
sounded high...I thought so. I'll definitely be getting another
estimate.

Thanks for all of the great advice!!

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!


$12000!!!??? Is it a 15 bedroom mansion?

--
Steve Barker


Not a surprising estimate, considering how some contractors pull prices
out of their asses. I was quoted $1800.00 and $800.00 for changing a few
iron pipes to PVC in the basement under my bathroom. Two weeks ago,
another plumber (husband of a friend) stopped by, took a look, and said
"This is a breeze. $200.00, and you provide coffee. See ya Saturday
morning" Took him an hour, and he did a great job. I mentioned the other
estimates. He said "Some of these guys are friggin' crazy".
I find saying 'cash price' helps a lot, especially for small jobs that can
be done in evening and on Saturday.

aem sends...

On May 2, 2:37 pm, wrote:
Thanks for your response. The surge protector option sounds really
great!

Surge protectors are ineffective (work but are not effective
protection) when not earthed. Not just any ground. Earth ground.
Even with a new circuit to computer room, that circuit only would be
safety grounded (to protect human life). Distance is too far for
earthing a protector. Wire too long is why wall receptacle is a
safety ground, but not earth ground.

First, building earthing must be upgraded to both meet and exceed
post 1990 code requirements. Electricians know how to 'meet' code.
Sometimes the 'exceed' is not understood. Distance from circuit
breaker box (where protector is located) to earth must be short ('less
than 10 feet'), no sharp bends, all incoming utilities connected to
that same earthing connection, etc. Those required to 'exceed' code.

For example, telephone box (NID) already has a 'whole house'
protector - provided free by the telco. But protector will only be
effective if connected to same earth ground installed by the
electrician. Understanding this paragraph is probably the most
important of this reply.

A 'whole house' protector where utility wires enter the building
accomplishes what plug-in protectors don't even claim to do. Why? A
protector is not transistor protection. Protection is that new earth
ground rod installed by electrician and only feet from breaker box and
protector.

Effective protectors have names such as GE, Siemens, Leviton, Square
D, Cutler-Hammer, and Intermatic. Sold in Lowes, Home Depot and
electrical supply houses. Names that electricians respect. What is
the name on a plug-in protector? Never saw an effective protector
sold in Radio Shack, Circuit City, Sears, Staples, K-mart, Best Buy,
Office Max, or a grocery store.

An electrician can upgrade your household earthing for surge
protection without wiring circuits inside the house. One 'whole
house' protector means everything has effective surge protection.
Why? A protector is not protection. A protector is only a
connecting device to protection: earth ground that is connected 'less
than ten feet' to breaker box.

'Whole house' protector with new (post 1990 code) earthing
connection (less than 10 feet, no sharp bends in the wire, routed
separated from other wires, etc), then the protector has someplace to
dump a surge. A surge diverted to earth will not seek destructive
paths through TV, smoke detectors, dishwasher, etc. Protection even
for everything connected to two wire outlets. A far more effective
protector also costs tens of times less money per protected appliance.

Another has recommended a dedicated circuit to the computer room.
That ground wire is only for human safety. If you don't install that
expensive circuit, then do two simple things- but only for human
safety. First connect all computer / printer / modem devices to one
(typically $4) power strip. Second (and only for human safety), put a
GFCI on that circuit.

Posted is the best protection system you can install for tens (or
maybe hundreds of times) less money. Remember, a protector is not and
does not claim to be protection. A protector is only a connecting
device to earth ground. If earthing wire distance is short ('less
than 10 feet'), then the earthing ground becomes surge protection.
Most important upgrade to protect every transistor: upgrade breaker
box earthing to meet and *exceed* post-1990 National Electrical Code
requirements.

On Wed, 02 May 2007 14:30:36 -0400, Goedjn wrote:

On 2 May 2007 09:46:51 -0700, wrote:

I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!


I'd ignore the existing wiring, and run a new grounded
circut to wherever I want to put equipment that needs
to be protected. That should work out to an entertainment
center and a computer workstation, right? and/or For much less
amount of money you're talking about for the whole house,
you could easily install protection at the service panel,
which will protect you against any event originating
outside the house. (Which is most of them.)

Over time, I'd think about replacing the existing
receptacles with GFCIs, which will give you
reasonable shock protection for people, but won't
do much for equipment.

I agree. You probably only need your computer and entertainment
center on surge protectors. That means adding two new outlets.
Any electrician can add a few outlets for a couple hundred bucks, or
you can do it yourself for under $100.

On 2 May 2007 19:04:19 -0700, wrote:

On May 2, 9:37 pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!

Upgrading to a 200 Amp service with all new wiring and grounding electrode
system is an excellent investment in convenience and safety, but 12K seems
high.
You'd darn well better be getting everything I mentioned for that price.
Shop around and get at least 3 bids, references, and most importantly, check
the references.
Make SURE the contractor pulls a permit and the work is inspected per 2005
NEC. Money's too hard to come by, and it's too easy to get hosed. Do your
homework well before laying out the cash.

Good Luck!

Haha...no, it's nowhere near a mansion. It's a 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 1900
square foot house. Moreover, a lot of the drywall is off the walls so
a lot of the wiring is exposed. I'm glad to hear you guys say that it
sounded high...I thought so. I'll definitely be getting another
estimate.

Thanks for all of the great advice!!

If the drywall is off, start changing the wires.....
A 250ft roll of 12-2 plus ground is $100 or less.

On May 3, 12:38 am, wrote:
On 2 May 2007 19:04:19 -0700, wrote:





On May 2, 9:37 pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!

Upgrading to a 200 Amp service with all new wiring and grounding electrode
system is an excellent investment in convenience and safety, but 12K seems
high.
You'd darn well better be getting everything I mentioned for that price.
Shop around and get at least 3 bids, references, and most importantly, check
the references.
Make SURE the contractor pulls a permit and the work is inspected per 2005
NEC. Money's too hard to come by, and it's too easy to get hosed. Do your
homework well before laying out the cash.

Good Luck!

Haha...no, it's nowhere near a mansion. It's a 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 1900
square foot house. Moreover, a lot of the drywall is off the walls so
a lot of the wiring is exposed. I'm glad to hear you guys say that it
sounded high...I thought so. I'll definitely be getting another
estimate.

Thanks for all of the great advice!!

If the drywall is off, start changing the wires.....
A 250ft roll of 12-2 plus ground is $100 or less.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If the only real concern at this point is surge protection, I'd go
with the suggestion to install a whole house surge protector, which
you should be able to get done for a few hundred bucks.

On Thu, 03 May 2007 03:00:27 GMT, "aemeijers"
wrote:


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!


$12000!!!??? Is it a 15 bedroom mansion?

--
Steve Barker


Not a surprising estimate, considering how some contractors pull prices
out of their asses. I was quoted $1800.00 and $800.00 for changing a few
iron pipes to PVC in the basement under my bathroom. Two weeks ago,
another plumber (husband of a friend) stopped by, took a look, and said
"This is a breeze. $200.00, and you provide coffee. See ya Saturday
morning" Took him an hour, and he did a great job. I mentioned the other
estimates. He said "Some of these guys are friggin' crazy".
I find saying 'cash price' helps a lot, especially for small jobs that can
be done in evening and on Saturday.


It's not crazy if they find one or two people a month that
will pay it. Evil, maybe, but not crazy.

On May 3, 1:33 am, wrote:
I agree. You probably only need your computer and entertainment
center on surge protectors. That means adding two new outlets.
Any electrician can add a few outlets for a couple hundred bucks, or
you can do it yourself for under $100

Effective surge protector can be installed in mains breaker box for
computer, entertainment center, AND also for things more critical: the
furnace, bathroom and kitchen GFCIs, smoke detectors .... and
everything else in the house. Protection that is vastly superior
because an earthing wire makes a 'less than 10 feet' connection.
Protector that costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Protection that would work adjacent to computer or entertainment
electronics already should be inside appliances. Internal appliance
protection needs one thing to not be overwhelmed - a properly
(connected 'less than 10 foot') earthed 'whole house' protector.
Superior protection also for computer and entertainment electronics
without rewiring the house.

Dedicated wire to computer and entertainment system would be for
other reasons including human safety.

On 2 May 2007 09:46:51 -0700, wrote:

I recently purchased a home built in the 1960s. While doing
renovations, I got an electrician out to inspect my wiring. He said it
was fine, and wasn't worth rewiring the entire house, but I have no
grounding, which he said meant surge protectors wouldn't work. He said
to add grounding, he would basically need to rewire the whole house,
which would cost about $12000. Is it possible to ground just certain
outlets and/or to get "grounded" in a less costly manner?

Thanks!


I had a few computers die without warning. They were old, but I was
concerned, so I tackled the problem of possible surge spikes a few
ways. 1. Ensure the neutral bus was properly grounded, to a ground
rod. 2. All piping bonded (more for safety). 3. Installed an inpanel
surge surpressor.

tom @ www.BlankHelp.com

w_tom wrote:

On May 2, 2:37 pm, wrote:

Thanks for your response. The surge protector option sounds really
great!


Surge protectors are ineffective (work but are not effective
protection) when not earthed. Not just any ground. Earth ground.
Even with a new circuit to computer room, that circuit only would be
safety grounded (to protect human life). Distance is too far for
earthing a protector. Wire too long is why wall receptacle is a
safety ground, but not earth ground.

Nonsense. Both the IEEE guide on surges and surge protection at:
http://omegaps.com/Lightning%20Guide...ion_May051.pdf
and the NIST guide at:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/p.../surgesfnl.pdf
say plug-in suppressors are effective.

Note that all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the
same plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires needs to go through
the suppressor. External connections, like phone, cable TV, also needs
to go through the protector. Connecting all wiring through the
suppressor prevents damaging voltages between power and phone wires.
These multiport suppressors are described in both the IEEE and NIST guides.


For example, telephone box (NID) already has a 'whole house'
protector - provided free by the telco. But protector will only be
effective if connected to same earth ground installed by the
electrician. Understanding this paragraph is probably the most
important of this reply.

Not just the same ground. The NID and cable TV service ground block
ground wires have to connect with short connections to the power system
earthing wire at the power service. This is called a “single point
ground”. This is the equivalent of running both power and signal wires
through a plug-in suppressor. A multiport plug-in suppressor provides
protection from long interconnections, but if just using service panel
surge protection a single point ground is very important.


A 'whole house' protector where utility wires enter the building
accomplishes what plug-in protectors don't even claim to do. Why? A
protector is not transistor protection. Protection is that new earth
ground rod installed by electrician and only feet from breaker box and
protector.

Nonsense again as applied to plug–in suppressors. The IEEE guide
explains that plug-in suppressors work primarily by clamping the voltage
on all wires (power and signal) to the common ground at the suppressor,
not earthing. The guide says earth grounding occurs elsewhere.





I agree with Goedjin that adding grounded outlets at strategic locations
is a good idea.
I agree with businessman that adding grounding is a good idea in areas
where drywall is off, particularly if you can do the wiring . This can
be done with new Romex or with ground wires as Bob suggests.

--
bud--