Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. The home was
built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside the house
(old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets (two-prong),
we're thinking of having the house rewired plus putting a newer
fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

The house is three bedroom, one bath (about 1200 sq), and there's
about 3-4 outlets per room. Does someone know the approximate cost
we're looking at for such a job? Also, would it be something I could
do to some degree? Possibly running all the wires back to a central
location to have an electrician come in and wire-up the box with
inside lines plus city power?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ...

Alex

On Apr 15, 5:49 am, "Alex" wrote:
Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. The home was
built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside the house
(old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets (two-prong),
we're thinking of having the house rewired plus putting a newer
fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

The house is three bedroom, one bath (about 1200 sq), and there's
about 3-4 outlets per room. Does someone know the approximate cost
we're looking at for such a job? Also, would it be something I could
do to some degree? Possibly running all the wires back to a central
location to have an electrician come in and wire-up the box with
inside lines plus city power?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ...

Alex

You and your wife probably use more electric devices in more places
than your mother; want GFCI protection in kitchen and bath; Arc Fault
protection in the bedrooms; hard wired smoke detectors. The only way
to get a cost is to get an estimate from a local tradesman.
T

The new service alone will be $1500 to $2000.

The rest of the cost will probably be determined in some part by the
degree of difficulty of pulling wires from point A to point B in an
older house.

As far as doing some of the work yourself that would be up to the
electrician.

When its all said and done his name is on the whole job.

He may or may not be comfortable with that.

On Apr 15, 8:22?am, wrote:
The new service alone will be $1500 to $2000.

The rest of the cost will probably be determined in some part by the
degree of difficulty of pulling wires from point A to point B in an
older house.

As far as doing some of the work yourself that would be up to the
electrician.

When its all said and done his name is on the whole job.

He may or may not be comfortable with that.

hey our home was like that no grounded outlets but BX cable, replaced
outlets, all nicely grounded now.

this can save big bucks, minimizing work to new service go 200 amp.

Alex wrote:
Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. The home was
built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside the house
(old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets (two-prong),
we're thinking of having the house rewired plus putting a newer
fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

Are you in an area where permits/inspection will be
required? If so, find out ahead of time what will be
required by the authorities. You may be greatly surprised.
Don't skip over this basic step.

Jim

On Apr 15, 5:49 am, "Alex" wrote:
Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. The home was
built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside the house
(old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets (two-prong),
we're thinking of having the house rewired plus putting a newer
fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

The house is three bedroom, one bath (about 1200 sq), and there's
about 3-4 outlets per room. Does someone know the approximate cost
we're looking at for such a job? Also, would it be something I could
do to some degree? Possibly running all the wires back to a central
location to have an electrician come in and wire-up the box with
inside lines plus city power?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ...

Alex

i wouldnt rewire the entire house, just to those that you need to plug
in a 3 prong cord (computer, fridge, and so on. that should help cut
some cost, then you could invest it into smoke detectors.
as far as your service goes if you dont have an electric stove, water,
heater dryer, garage, well, hot tub, or plan to add some major loads
then i would stick too 100 amp service, seeing the average house
probabaly uses less than 40 amps most the time. dont fall for the ugg
more power is better. it isnt just cost you more.
but you live there and if it brings you peace of mind then go for it.
i would say smoke detectors first thats some peace there.
but with what your first paragraph says your into thousands of dollars

On Apr 15, 6:41�pm, "sym" wrote:
On Apr 15, 5:49 am, "Alex" wrote:





Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. *The home was
built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside the house
(old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets (two-prong),
we're thinking of having the house rewired plus putting a newer
fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

The house is three bedroom, one bath (about 1200 sq), and there's
about 3-4 outlets per room. *Does someone know the approximate cost
we're looking at for such a job? *Also, would it be something I could
do to some degree? *Possibly running all the wires back to a central
location to have an electrician come in and wire-up the box with
inside lines plus city power?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ...

Alex

i wouldnt rewire the entire house, just to those that you need to plug
in a 3 prong cord (computer, fridge, and so on. *that should help cut
some cost, *then you could invest it into smoke detectors.
as far as your service goes if you dont have an electric stove, water,
heater dryer, garage, well, hot tub, or plan to add some major loads
then i would stick too 100 amp service, seeing the average house
probabaly uses less than 40 amps most the time. dont fall for the ugg
more power is better. it isnt just cost you more.
but you live there and if it brings you peace of mind then go for it.
i would say smoke detectors first thats some peace there.
but with what your first paragraph says your into thousands of dollars- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the cost difference between 100 amp and 200 is minimal and power use
is up nationwide. Years ago I went from 60 to 100 AMP now need to go
to 200. Not only raw power but number of breaker spaces.

At least if you have BX upgrade ALL outlets to 3 prong, more
convenient and at resale time very helpful.

then upgrade kitchen and bath to adquate number of outlets all GFCI
protected.

This will be $$$ well spent..............

"Alex" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. The home was
built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside the house
(old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets (two-prong),
we're thinking of having the house rewired plus putting a newer
fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

The house is three bedroom, one bath (about 1200 sq), and there's
about 3-4 outlets per room. Does someone know the approximate cost
we're looking at for such a job? Also, would it be something I could
do to some degree? Possibly running all the wires back to a central
location to have an electrician come in and wire-up the box with
inside lines plus city power?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ...

Alex


You have several good answers in this thread already.

In some areas it might be legal with the proper permit for you to do the
work or part of it. In others areas it is not. Since you had to ask the
question, I would suggest that you at least get the service entrance and
breaker box installed by an electrical contractor.

The new entrance and box would be called a service upgrade only and would
not require that the whole house be brought up to code at one time. This is
the best way to start the project even if you plan to do it all later.

The actual wire pulls and circuit connections can be done by a competent,
educated DIY person. If you choose to go this route take the time learn
about wire ampacity sizes etc. It isn't rocket science but to be safe you
need to learn these things.

It is unlikely that you will be able to get a firm estimate of doing all the
individual runs. Those are usually time and materials. There are just to
many things that might add to the cost for anyone to give you an estimate
that is fair to both you and the contractor. You should be able to get a
firm price on the service upgrade. That is pretty straight-forward.

The price of the service upgrade is going to vary widely by location. For a
200 amp service in most parts of the US the prices already quoted in the
thread should be in the ballpark.

Colbyt

On Apr 15, 6:58 pm, " wrote:
On Apr 15, 6:41?pm, "sym" wrote:





On Apr 15, 5:49 am, "Alex" wrote:

Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. ?The home was
built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside the house
(old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets (two-prong),
we're thinking of having the house rewired plus putting a newer
fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

The house is three bedroom, one bath (about 1200 sq), and there's
about 3-4 outlets per room. ?Does someone know the approximate cost
we're looking at for such a job? ?Also, would it be something I could
do to some degree? ?Possibly running all the wires back to a central
location to have an electrician come in and wire-up the box with
inside lines plus city power?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ...

Alex

i wouldnt rewire the entire house, just to those that you need to plug
in a 3 prong cord (computer, fridge, and so on. ?that should help cut
some cost, ?then you could invest it into smoke detectors.
as far as your service goes if you dont have an electric stove, water,
heater dryer, garage, well, hot tub, or plan to add some major loads
then i would stick too 100 amp service, seeing the average house
probabaly uses less than 40 amps most the time. dont fall for the ugg
more power is better. it isnt just cost you more.
but you live there and if it brings you peace of mind then go for it.
i would say smoke detectors first thats some peace there.
but with what your first paragraph says your into thousands of dollars- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the cost difference between 100 amp and 200 is minimal and power use
is up nationwide. Years ago I went from 60 to 100 AMP now need to go
to 200. Not only raw power but number of breaker spaces.

At least if you have BX upgrade ALL outlets to 3 prong, more
convenient and at resale time very helpful.

then upgrade kitchen and bath to adquate number of outlets all GFCI
protected.

This will be $$$ well spent..............- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

on a straight up and in service true not alot of diff probably $500.
but for some reason i suspect there is no basement due to the service
being outside. yes the extra space can be nice but again depends on
what loads exsist and what they might need in the future. they do make
100 amp 30 circuit panels

sym wrote:

on a straight up and in service true not alot of diff probably $500.
but for some reason i suspect there is no basement due to the service
being outside. yes the extra space can be nice but again depends on
what loads exsist and what they might need in the future. they do make
100 amp 30 circuit panels

More like $5. Probably even less. The cost differential between 100 and 200
amp service is insignificant.

For example,

100 Amp, 32 space Square-D box = $158.76
200 Amp, 40 space Square-D box = $159.44

A whopping SIXTY-EIGHT cent difference!

http://www.aplussupply.com/break/sqd.../boxes/box.htm

On Apr 15, 9:03?pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
sym wrote:

on a straight up and in service true not alot of diff probably $500.
but for some reason i suspect there is no basement due to the service
being outside. yes the extra space can be nice but again depends on
what loads exsist and what they might need in the future. they do make
100 amp 30 circuit panels

More like $5. Probably even less. The cost differential between 100 and 200
amp service is insignificant.

For example,

100 Amp, 32 space Square-D box = $158.76
200 Amp, 40 space Square-D box = $159.44

A whopping SIXTY-EIGHT cent difference!

http://www.aplussupply.com/break/sqd.../boxes/box.htm

yeah and the extra spaces can be extremely valuable.

I am upgrading this summer primarily for the extra spaces, my box is
maxed out, with half breakers.

Or you can search out "thebreakerguy" on ebay and save even more. I've
purchased from him several times.

--
Steve Barker




"HeyBub" wrote in message
...

More like $5. Probably even less. The cost differential between 100 and
200 amp service is insignificant.

For example,

100 Amp, 32 space Square-D box = $158.76
200 Amp, 40 space Square-D box = $159.44

A whopping SIXTY-EIGHT cent difference!

http://www.aplussupply.com/break/sqd.../boxes/box.htm

On 15 Apr 2007 15:41:38 -0700, "sym" wrote:

On Apr 15, 5:49 am, "Alex" wrote:
Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. The home was
built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside the house
(old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets (two-prong),
we're thinking of having the house rewired plus putting a newer
fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

The house is three bedroom, one bath (about 1200 sq), and there's
about 3-4 outlets per room. Does someone know the approximate cost
we're looking at for such a job? Also, would it be something I could
do to some degree? Possibly running all the wires back to a central
location to have an electrician come in and wire-up the box with
inside lines plus city power?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ...

Alex

i wouldnt rewire the entire house, just to those that you need to plug
in a 3 prong cord (computer, fridge, and so on. that should help cut
some cost, then you could invest it into smoke detectors.
as far as your service goes if you dont have an electric stove, water,
heater dryer, garage, well, hot tub, or plan to add some major loads
then i would stick too 100 amp service, seeing the average house
probabaly uses less than 40 amps most the time. dont fall for the ugg
more power is better. it isnt just cost you more.
but you live there and if it brings you peace of mind then go for it.
i would say smoke detectors first thats some peace there.
but with what your first paragraph says your into thousands of dollars


I would go with a 200 amp. Use all 20amp circuits. Quad receptacles
in the kitchen on two separate circuits. Put each room you plan to
have a computer or window ac on a separate circuit.

There is no way anyone here can tell you exact price w/o taking
a look at the house. I new someone in exact position.

Price he was quoted - $4000.

It took a day of work and $550 of supplies to replace 60A service
with 200A. Later he called electric company and mentioned that
service wire felt "warm", got free service upgrade....

On Apr 15, 9:09 am, " wrote:

hey our home was like that no grounded outlets but BX cable, replaced
outlets, all nicely grounded now.

The armor of BX does not provide a secure ground.
It may look grounded now, but not work in the future.

That's why BX is no longer sold -- grounded boxes and
appliances had a nasty habit of getting un-grounded.
The steel armor rusts, develops cracks, or the electrical
connection between the armor and the box develops high
resistance.

It was replaced (some time *after* the 1950's) by AC cable,
which looks a lot like BX, and is often called "BX",
but isn't. AC has, among other things, an aluminum wire
or strip running lengthwise inside the armor,
which you have to make sure is squeezed between the
armor and a clamp on the box. There may be additional
requirements on the armor, too.

+ + +

By the way, I discovered that those plug-in
"grounding tester" thingies don't always test that
an outlet is wired correctly.

I found an outlet where the ground pin and the "neutral"
pin were both wired to the bare copper wire (the
white wire was capped off, because it was really the
other hot leg of a 240 V circuit.)

The plug-in thingie said it was just fine.

"Alan McKenney" wrote in message
oups.com...

By the way, I discovered that those plug-in
"grounding tester" thingies don't always test that
an outlet is wired correctly.

I found an outlet where the ground pin and the "neutral"
pin were both wired to the bare copper wire (the
white wire was capped off, because it was really the
other hot leg of a 240 V circuit.)

The plug-in thingie said it was just fine.

Right. It only knows there is not much voltage difference between ground
and neutral. It can't tell you where they are tied together.

On Apr 15, 9:03 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
sym wrote:

on a straight up and in service true not alot of diff probably $500.
but for some reason i suspect there is no basement due to the service
being outside. yes the extra space can be nice but again depends on
what loads exsist and what they might need in the future. they do make
100 amp 30 circuit panels

More like $5. Probably even less. The cost differential between 100 and 200
amp service is insignificant.

For example,

100 Amp, 32 space Square-D box = $158.76
200 Amp, 40 space Square-D box = $159.44

A whopping SIXTY-EIGHT cent difference!

http://www.aplussupply.com/break/sqd.../boxes/box.htm

now figure the other materials wire,piping fittings your primary
ground and increased labor seeing that the larger wire is more
difficult to work with.
not to mention if it exceeds 5 feet into house youll need a disconnect
and the sub feed wire and so on.
your 100 amp sq d box is pricey, id go siemens myself but if you want
to pay the extra for the sq d more power to ya.

In article .com,
"Alan McKenney" wrote:
By the way, I discovered that those plug-in
"grounding tester" thingies don't always test that
an outlet is wired correctly.

I found an outlet where the ground pin and the "neutral"
pin were both wired to the bare copper wire (the
white wire was capped off, because it was really the
other hot leg of a 240 V circuit.)

The plug-in thingie said it was just fine.

That's normal. There are testers that test for that, but they cost
something like $200.

--
--Tim Smith

"Alex" wrote in
oups.com:

Hi Everyone,

My wife and I are looking at possibly moving into her mother's old
home, but one of my concerns is the wiring in the house. The home
was built in the early 1950's, and with an older fusebox outside
the house (old screw-in fuses) plus no ground on any power outlets
(two-prong), we're thinking of having the house rewired plus
putting a newer fusebox (with circuit breakers) inside the house.

The house is three bedroom, one bath (about 1200 sq), and there's
about 3-4 outlets per room. Does someone know the approximate
cost we're looking at for such a job? Also, would it be something
I could do to some degree? Possibly running all the wires back to
a central location to have an electrician come in and wire-up the
box with inside lines plus city power?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ...

Alex


Whatever you do, make sure you get a permit and have the final
product inspected. It usually is minimal extra expense, but if for
some reason you get an electrical fire, your homeowner's insurance
carrier eill have a hard time denying a claim...

A local man did some self wiring, and even thoyugh he followed code,
it was done without permits and inspection. He had an electrical
fire. It was determined that it wasn't his fault, nut insurance
denied his claim. While it was not a catastrophic fire, there ws
property loss and he had to handle it on his own.

On Apr 15, 11:01 pm, Terry wrote:


I would go with a 200 amp. Use all 20amp circuits. Quad receptacles
in the kitchen on two separate circuits. Put each room you plan to
have a computer or window ac on a separate circuit.

But check the locally applicable code.

I understand that in Canada, you can't use 20 amp circuits for
loads with 15 A plugs. (The dual-use 15/20 amp recepticles are
illegal.) And, yes, there are (or used to be) Canadian posters to
this group.

Some cities have their own codes (New York and Chicago come to
mind.)

Chris Lewis used to post an electrical wiring FAQ with some
notes about local variations in code requirements.

Alan McKenney writes:

I understand that in Canada, you can't use 20 amp circuits for
loads with 15 A plugs. (The dual-use 15/20 amp recepticles are
illegal.) And, yes, there are (or used to be) Canadian posters to
this group.

20 amp circuits are now an allowed alternative for kitchen counter
receptacles (instead of the old standby of two 15 A circuits with common
neutral). I have seen the dual 15/20 A outlets, so I presume they are
legal too now. But I don't know if it's legal to install 15 A-only
outlets on a circuit protected by a 20 A breaker.

Dave

On Apr 16, 3:03 pm, "mc" wrote:
"Alan McKenney" wrote in message

oups.com...

By the way, I discovered that those plug-in
"grounding tester" thingies don't always test that
an outlet is wired correctly.

I found an outlet where the ground pin and the "neutral"
pin were both wired to the bare copper wire (the
white wire was capped off, because it was really the
other hot leg of a 240 V circuit.)

The plug-in thingie said it was just fine.

Right. It only knows there is not much voltage difference between ground
and neutral. It can't tell you where they are tied together.


Since the neutral and the ground wires are bonded at the ground bar in
the panel is it supposed to be a voltage differential between ground
and neutral in the outlet? If I measure a voltage difference in the
outlet isn't it something wrong there? Or is there a maximum allowed
value?

On Apr 16, 3:03 pm, "mc" wrote:
"Alan McKenney" wrote in message

oups.com...

By the way, I discovered that those plug-in
"grounding tester" thingies don't always test that
an outlet is wired correctly.

I found an outlet where the ground pin and the "neutral"
pin were both wired to the bare copper wire (the
white wire was capped off, because it was really the
other hot leg of a 240 V circuit.)

The plug-in thingie said it was just fine.

Right. It only knows there is not much voltage difference between ground
and neutral. It can't tell you where they are tied together.


Since the neutral and the ground wires are bonded at the ground bar in
the panel is it supposed to be a voltage differential between ground
and neutral in the outlet? If I measure a voltage difference in the
outlet isn't it something wrong there? Or is there a maximum allowed
value?

On 21 Apr 2007 09:59:47 -0700, Rookie_Remodeler wrote:
Since the neutral and the ground wires are bonded at the ground bar in
the panel is it supposed to be a voltage differential between ground
and neutral in the outlet? If I measure a voltage difference in the

The voltage difference is one reason for having seperate neutral and
ground wires. The current flowing in the neutral line will cause a
voltage drop over the length of the wire. That drop is the voltage
difference you are measuring between ground and neutral. The amount of
the drop depends on the size (diameter) and length of the wire and the
current (amperage) flowing at the time of measurement.

It is almost never a problem if the electrical is code-compliant.

sdb

--
What's seen on your screen? http://pcscreenwatch.com
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com

Since the neutral and the ground wires are bonded at the ground bar in
the panel is it supposed to be a voltage differential between ground
and neutral in the outlet? If I measure a voltage difference in the
outlet isn't it something wrong there? Or is there a maximum allowed
value?

Actually, if the circuit is in use, a slight voltage differential is a good
sign. (Like 1 or 2 volts.) Zero voltage differential might mean they're
tied together too close to you.