Folks,

The other day I started a project to remove old, ugly and cracked
ceramic tile in the powder room. The ceramic tile was cemented to a
plywood underlayment. Today, while trying to pry up the underlayment
I found this:

http://v65.freeshell.org/subfloor_mess.jpg

It seems the underlayment is glued, nailed and screwed to the subfloor
or perhaps another thinner underlayment. Can't really tell. I only
mention this because I would have assumed the previous owner would
have placed the underlayment atop the vinyl tile and then the ceramic
tile atop the underlayment.

This supposedly simple job is beginning to turn into a BIG mess.

Any ideas of how to proceed?

TIA!

Greg
remove "rider" to respond directly

In article , Greg wrote:
Folks,

The other day I started a project to remove old, ugly and cracked
ceramic tile in the powder room. The ceramic tile was cemented to a
plywood underlayment. Today, while trying to pry up the underlayment
I found this:

http://v65.freeshell.org/subfloor_mess.jpg

It seems the underlayment is glued, nailed and screwed to the subfloor
or perhaps another thinner underlayment. Can't really tell. I only
mention this because I would have assumed the previous owner would
have placed the underlayment atop the vinyl tile and then the ceramic
tile atop the underlayment.

This supposedly simple job is beginning to turn into a BIG mess.

As the Irishman said... "I wouldn't start from here".

First, you should establish exactly what layers you
do have present.

Only then can you decide which ones you're going to
remove and how you're going to build up a new layer
on which to install the new floor covering.

Let us know what you find. It would also be helpful to
know what new covering you're planning to install.


--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Mar 28, 1:50 pm, Greg wrote:
Folks,

The other day I started a project to remove old, ugly and cracked
ceramic tile in the powder room. The ceramic tile was cemented to a
plywood underlayment. Today, while trying to pry up the underlayment
I found this:

http://v65.freeshell.org/subfloor_mess.jpg

It seems the underlayment is glued, nailed and screwed to the subfloor
or perhaps another thinner underlayment. Can't really tell. I only
mention this because I would have assumed the previous owner would
have placed the underlayment atop the vinyl tile and then the ceramic
tile atop the underlayment.

This supposedly simple job is beginning to turn into a BIG mess.

Any ideas of how to proceed?

TIA!

Greg
remove "rider" to respond directly

The least amount of blood sweat and tears will simply be to replace
the entire subfloor. It can be done as follows: First, use a hole saw
to drill through the whole mess. Pull the cut plug out of the hole saw
and use it as a guide to prepare a couple of jig saw blades just long
enough to slice though the layers. With the powder room attributes out
of the way, start cutting and removing the floor in sections parallel
with the joists. Lay down new subflloor sections (ready cut plywood
best) with ring shank nails and construction adhesive. Where
partition walls cover part of the old subfloor, some work with a sharp
chisel will give you a good nailing ledge.
Although this seems like a rather radical approach, I've done similar
projects with great results. On nice thing is that you don't have
other problems like toilet seals and flange heights getting screwed
up and having to take doors down to trim off the bottom edges. HTH

Joe

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:22:50 GMT, (Malcolm Hoar)
wrote:

-snip-

First, you should establish exactly what layers you
do have present.

OK, thanks for a quick response. According to this pic...

http://v65.freeshell.org/subfloor_tile_layers.jpg

....it looks like there is, in fact, another beneath the 1/2" or 3/4"
plywood underlayment. Only thing is, if it's glued... I'm in for a
BIG headache. I'll set my circular saw to go a little deeper to see
if I can pop up a piece beneath where the sink was.

Here's another profile of the nasty tile in the kitchen.

http://v65.freeshell.org/subfloor_kitchen_tile.jpg

Only then can you decide which ones you're going to
remove and how you're going to build up a new layer
on which to install the new floor covering.

Let us know what you find. It would also be helpful to
know what new covering you're planning to install.

Assuming I can get, cleanly, to the 3/4" subfloor... I was planning on
laying down a 1/4" underlayment (nailing not gluing) and placing 12"
tile down to cover about 40 sq. ft. in the powder room. Nothing
fancy. Just functional.

Thanks again for your PROMPT response.

Greg
remove "rider" to respond directly.

On 28 Mar 2007 16:06:25 -0700, "Joe" wrote:

The least amount of blood sweat and tears will simply be to replace
the entire subfloor. It can be done as follows: First, use a hole saw
to drill through the whole mess. Pull the cut plug out of the hole saw
and use it as a guide to prepare a couple of jig saw blades just long
enough to slice though the layers. With the powder room attributes out
of the way, start cutting and removing the floor in sections parallel
with the joists. Lay down new subflloor sections (ready cut plywood
best) with ring shank nails and construction adhesive. Where
partition walls cover part of the old subfloor, some work with a sharp
chisel will give you a good nailing ledge.
Although this seems like a rather radical approach, I've done similar
projects with great results. On nice thing is that you don't have
other problems like toilet seals and flange heights getting screwed
up and having to take doors down to trim off the bottom edges. HTH

Joe

Joe,

Very interesting angle. Never considered ripping out and replacing
the existing subfloor. Seeing that I've removed all the old ceramic
tile, I have easy access to cut through the additional layers of wood.

If I go with this approach, I'm a little confused as to how to proceed
with the areas beneath the existing drywall wall partitions. If the
joists don't line up cleanly, not sure how I'll be able to nail to
them.

Time to start poking around.

Thanks Joe.

Greg
remove "rider" to respond directly

In article , Greg wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:22:50 GMT, (Malcolm Hoar)
wrote:

-snip-

First, you should establish exactly what layers you
do have present.

OK, thanks for a quick response. According to this pic...

http://v65.freeshell.org/subfloor_tile_layers.jpg

...it looks like there is, in fact, another beneath the 1/2" or 3/4"
plywood underlayment. Only thing is, if it's glued... I'm in for a
BIG headache. I'll set my circular saw to go a little deeper to see
if I can pop up a piece beneath where the sink was.

Here's another profile of the nasty tile in the kitchen.

http://v65.freeshell.org/subfloor_kitchen_tile.jpg

Only then can you decide which ones you're going to
remove and how you're going to build up a new layer
on which to install the new floor covering.

Let us know what you find. It would also be helpful to
know what new covering you're planning to install.

Assuming I can get, cleanly, to the 3/4" subfloor... I was planning on
laying down a 1/4" underlayment (nailing not gluing) and placing 12"
tile down to cover about 40 sq. ft. in the powder room. Nothing
fancy. Just functional.

Phew, right. I think you have a decent plan. But you'll
just need to decide which layers to remove so you'll
have a reasonably level and sound surface on which to
build.

I'm not sure we can guide you much further than that.
You can see, touch, feel, smell the existing layers
and get a sense for which are most sound or unsound
as a foundation.

However, since I'm quite sure you don't want to be
back at this point in 6 or 12 months, I'd be inclined
to remove more rather than less. In other words, if
you doubt the soundness of a particular layer, then
it has to go.

I would approach it one layer at a time. You might
find one of the top layers comes off easily leaving
a very clean surface on which to rebuild. Again, you'll
need to use some judgement. But if it looks dry, smooth,
solid, with no moisture or movement, you're probably
done. And I think there's a decent chance you'll reach
that point reasonably quickly. Good luck!

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~