OK, so Mr. compulsive here drains a little bucketful out of the drain
valve on the hot water heater every month or so, because that's
supposed to keep the sludge from building up on the bottom and that's
the right thing to do and I'm certainly going to maintain my equipment
so it lasts a long gime. Now, of course, the drain valve drools,
enough to see some wetness on the floor underenath, but not enough so
that I can detect exactly where it leaks.So, I'm not sure at this
point if it's through the valve or up the stem; tightening the valve
as far as I dared without breaking it (seems to be cheap nylon) didn't
help, so I tightened the packing nut a hair, and ended up getting a
cap to screw over the end of the drain valve; haven't looked at it
since. But are these rebuildable like a normal faucet, replacable
faucet washer and such, or are they specialized in design?

z wrote:

OK, so Mr. compulsive here drains a little bucketful out of the drain
valve on the hot water heater every month or so, because that's
supposed to keep the sludge from building up on the bottom and that's
the right thing to do and I'm certainly going to maintain my equipment
so it lasts a long gime. Now, of course, the drain valve drools,
enough to see some wetness on the floor underenath, but not enough so
that I can detect exactly where it leaks.So, I'm not sure at this
point if it's through the valve or up the stem; tightening the valve
as far as I dared without breaking it (seems to be cheap nylon) didn't
help, so I tightened the packing nut a hair, and ended up getting a
cap to screw over the end of the drain valve; haven't looked at it
since. But are these rebuildable like a normal faucet, replacable
faucet washer and such, or are they specialized in design?



IMHO those plastic "hose bib" drain valves which come mounted on most
water heaters are all POS. I think the manufacturers count on very few
owners ever bothering to use them.

Best to replace it with a brass one of the same style, or if you want to
do the job extra-right then get a ball valve and appropriate nipples and
a male hose connector. The ball valve gives you a nice big opening to
let crud flush through.

No big deal to shut off the supply and drain the tank if you can run a
hose from the bib to a spot lower than the bottom of the tank. And
PUHLEEZE remember to turn off the electricity (or gas) to the heater
before you empty it or "yooooole be soooory". G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
z wrote:

OK, so Mr. compulsive here drains a little bucketful out of the drain
valve on the hot water heater every month or so, because that's
supposed to keep the sludge from building up on the bottom and that's
the right thing to do and I'm certainly going to maintain my equipment
so it lasts a long gime. Now, of course, the drain valve drools,
enough to see some wetness on the floor underenath, but not enough so
that I can detect exactly where it leaks.So, I'm not sure at this
point if it's through the valve or up the stem; tightening the valve
as far as I dared without breaking it (seems to be cheap nylon) didn't
help, so I tightened the packing nut a hair, and ended up getting a
cap to screw over the end of the drain valve; haven't looked at it
since. But are these rebuildable like a normal faucet, replacable
faucet washer and such, or are they specialized in design?



IMHO those plastic "hose bib" drain valves which come mounted on most
water heaters are all POS. I think the manufacturers count on very few
owners ever bothering to use them.

Best to replace it with a brass one of the same style, or if you want to
do the job extra-right then get a ball valve and appropriate nipples and
a male hose connector. The ball valve gives you a nice big opening to
let crud flush through.

No big deal to shut off the supply and drain the tank if you can run a
hose from the bib to a spot lower than the bottom of the tank. And
PUHLEEZE remember to turn off the electricity (or gas) to the heater
before you empty it or "yooooole be soooory". G

Jeff

Having just replaced the drain valve on our electric water heater, I
can safely say that you do not have to drain the tank to replace the
drain valve. Sure you drip a couple of cups of water, but advance
preparation controls that. The secret is to be sure that the cold
water inlet valve is closed and that all hot water faucets are also
closed. When you remove the old nylon valve a little bit of water
escapes, but without a way for air to get to the top of the tank,
there is nothing to displace the water and let it out. Just have
your nipple and ball valve pre-assembled and unscrew the old and
insert the new. Of course, you need to turn off your heat source
before starting this project. But I had it done in less than a
minute after preparation.
--
Grandpa

I have also used the replace while it's full deal on elements. Of
course, make sure the sucker is cooled off!

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:35:21 GMT, Grandpa wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Having just replaced the drain valve on our electric water heater, I
can safely say that you do not have to drain the tank to replace the
drain valve. Sure you drip a couple of cups of water, but advance
preparation controls that.

After getting advice from a supply house guy, I was able to change my
electric water heater heating element while only dripping a tablespoon
or two of water. I had a screw in element. A bolt-on might be a bit
slower to do.

The secret is to be sure that the cold
water inlet valve is closed and that all hot water faucets are also
closed.

Yes, I closed the main water supply to the house.

But what he told me to do was to OPEN the water faucet, only the
lowest one in the house I'm certain. And to let it stay open the
whole time and wait until the water stopped coming out of the faucet
before removing the element. I would think the procedure for the
drain valve would be the same. It only took 5 or 10 seconds for teh
water to stop dripping from the faucet, because of air pressure, etc.

(If it didnt' stop drippping at all, it would have likely meant that I
hadn't turned the water supply off sufficiently)

When you remove the old nylon valve a little bit of water
escapes, but without a way for air to get to the top of the tank,
there is nothing to displace the water and let it out. Just have
your nipple and ball valve pre-assembled and unscrew the old and
insert the new. Of course, you need to turn off your heat source
before starting this project. But I had it done in less than a
minute after preparation.

Absolutely. It only took me 3 to 4 seconds to get the element back in
and somewhat longer of course to screw the thing in to where it
stopped leaking. I hurried but don't remember how long that part
took. Actually I probably leaked some added water at that time, but
it was flowing very slowly when nothing was there, so I assume it was
even slower when most of the hole was plugged.

WE NEED PEOPLE HERE TO RESOLVE WHETHER ALL THE HOT WATER FAUCETS
SHOULD BE CLOSED, AS YOU SAY, OR WHETHER THE LOWEST ONE IN THE HOUSE
SHOULD BE WIDE OPEN, AS I SAY.

WE NEED PEOPLE HERE TO RESOLVE WHETHER ALL THE HOT WATER FAUCETS
SHOULD BE CLOSED, AS YOU SAY, OR WHETHER THE LOWEST ONE IN THE HOUSE
SHOULD BE WIDE OPEN, AS I SAY.
..
Depends:
Our lowest faucet is ABOVE the hot water tank on the main floor of the
house
The hot water tank (or 'cylinder' as some Europeans call them) is in
our basement.
Well below everything except the basement located washing machine with
its cold and hot water inlets at a level about half way up the hot
water tank.
In other words. No hard and fast rule; depends on physics and the
house plumbing?

On 22 Mar 2007 08:26:36 -0700, "terry"
wrote:


WE NEED PEOPLE HERE TO RESOLVE WHETHER ALL THE HOT WATER FAUCETS
SHOULD BE CLOSED, AS YOU SAY, OR WHETHER THE LOWEST ONE IN THE HOUSE
SHOULD BE WIDE OPEN, AS I SAY.
.
Depends:
Our lowest faucet is ABOVE the hot water tank on the main floor of the
house
The hot water tank (or 'cylinder' as some Europeans call them) is in
our basement.
Well below everything except the basement located washing machine with
its cold and hot water inlets at a level about half way up the hot
water tank.
In other words. No hard and fast rule; depends on physics and the
house plumbing?

Maybe it's the cold water I'm supposed to open, as Grandpa says, and
then I don't see why your situation would be different.

mm wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:35:21 GMT, Grandpa wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Having just replaced the drain valve on our electric water heater, I
can safely say that you do not have to drain the tank to replace the
drain valve. Sure you drip a couple of cups of water, but advance
preparation controls that.

After getting advice from a supply house guy, I was able to change my
electric water heater heating element while only dripping a tablespoon
or two of water. I had a screw in element. A bolt-on might be a bit
slower to do.

The secret is to be sure that the cold
water inlet valve is closed and that all hot water faucets are also
closed.

Yes, I closed the main water supply to the house.

But what he told me to do was to OPEN the water faucet, only the
lowest one in the house I'm certain. And to let it stay open the
whole time and wait until the water stopped coming out of the faucet
before removing the element. I would think the procedure for the
drain valve would be the same. It only took 5 or 10 seconds for teh
water to stop dripping from the faucet, because of air pressure, etc.

(If it didnt' stop drippping at all, it would have likely meant that I
hadn't turned the water supply off sufficiently)

When you remove the old nylon valve a little bit of water
escapes, but without a way for air to get to the top of the tank,
there is nothing to displace the water and let it out. Just have
your nipple and ball valve pre-assembled and unscrew the old and
insert the new. Of course, you need to turn off your heat source
before starting this project. But I had it done in less than a
minute after preparation.

Absolutely. It only took me 3 to 4 seconds to get the element back in
and somewhat longer of course to screw the thing in to where it
stopped leaking. I hurried but don't remember how long that part
took. Actually I probably leaked some added water at that time, but
it was flowing very slowly when nothing was there, so I assume it was
even slower when most of the hole was plugged.

WE NEED PEOPLE HERE TO RESOLVE WHETHER ALL THE HOT WATER FAUCETS
SHOULD BE CLOSED, AS YOU SAY, OR WHETHER THE LOWEST ONE IN THE HOUSE
SHOULD BE WIDE OPEN, AS I SAY.

Did you open the hot or cold valve? If it was the lowest cold valve,
I can understand that - check to make sure the water is off and
relieve the residual pipe pressure from the tank.

Common sense tells me that if I provide an air path to the top of
the tank from an open hot water faucet, then I can empty that water
tank quickly. Try it yourself with a soda straw in a tall glass of
water. Put the straw in the water, put your finger over the top of
the straw and remove it from the glass. The straw will be full of
water, except for a little bit that the weight of the water will
pull down before the vacuum created below your finger stops it. Pull
off your finger and the straw will empty out.

Still don't believe me? Try he
http://www.maytagwaterheaters.com/ideas/mainttips.html
Look at item 3 under "How To Flush & Drain Your Water Heater"
Now stop yelling.
--
Grandpa

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:45:03 GMT, Grandpa wrote:

mm wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:35:21 GMT, Grandpa wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Having just replaced the drain valve on our electric water heater, I
can safely say that you do not have to drain the tank to replace the
drain valve. Sure you drip a couple of cups of water, but advance
preparation controls that.

After getting advice from a supply house guy, I was able to change my
electric water heater heating element while only dripping a tablespoon
or two of water. I had a screw in element. A bolt-on might be a bit
slower to do.

The secret is to be sure that the cold
water inlet valve is closed and that all hot water faucets are also
closed.

Yes, I closed the main water supply to the house.

But what he told me to do was to OPEN the water faucet, only the
lowest one in the house I'm certain. And to let it stay open the
whole time and wait until the water stopped coming out of the faucet
before removing the element. I would think the procedure for the
drain valve would be the same. It only took 5 or 10 seconds for teh
water to stop dripping from the faucet, because of air pressure, etc.

(If it didnt' stop drippping at all, it would have likely meant that I
hadn't turned the water supply off sufficiently)

When you remove the old nylon valve a little bit of water
escapes, but without a way for air to get to the top of the tank,
there is nothing to displace the water and let it out. Just have
your nipple and ball valve pre-assembled and unscrew the old and
insert the new. Of course, you need to turn off your heat source
before starting this project. But I had it done in less than a
minute after preparation.

Absolutely. It only took me 3 to 4 seconds to get the element back in
and somewhat longer of course to screw the thing in to where it
stopped leaking. I hurried but don't remember how long that part
took. Actually I probably leaked some added water at that time, but
it was flowing very slowly when nothing was there, so I assume it was
even slower when most of the hole was plugged.

WE NEED PEOPLE HERE TO RESOLVE WHETHER ALL THE HOT WATER FAUCETS
SHOULD BE CLOSED, AS YOU SAY, OR WHETHER THE LOWEST ONE IN THE HOUSE
SHOULD BE WIDE OPEN, AS I SAY.

Did you open the hot or cold valve? If it was the lowest cold valve,

Until you asked , I was sure it was the hot water.

I can understand that - check to make sure the water is off and
relieve the residual pipe pressure from the tank.

And start to create a partial vacuum above the water in the water
heater.

Common sense tells me that if I provide an air path to the top of
the tank from an open hot water faucet, then I can empty that water
tank quickly. Try it yourself with a soda straw in a tall glass of
water. Put the straw in the water, put your finger over the top of
the straw and remove it from the glass. The straw will be full of
water, except for a little bit that the weight of the water will
pull down before the vacuum created below your finger stops it. Pull
off your finger and the straw will empty out.

Still don't believe me? Try he

I believe you except that I'm trying to figure out why opening the
cold water wouldn't do the same thing. The path from the cold faucet
to the wh is only a bit longer than from the hot faucet. The fact
that hot would let water and then air in at the top and cold would let
water and then air in at the bottom seems an unimportant difference to
me.

http://www.maytagwaterheaters.com/ideas/mainttips.html
Look at item 3 under "How To Flush & Drain Your Water Heater"
Now stop yelling.

I wasn't yelling. In fact I'm glad to have this come up now, since I
may need a new element in my wh. I have to measure things and find
out. The 5500 watt element burned out, so I move the wire to the 3500
watt element. I was sure that would be fine, but now it seems to take
2 or 3 days for the water to heat after a bath, instead of what I had
thought was less than 6 hours. Do you think maybe it was 23 hours, if
I took a bath at the same time every day, and now it is 40 hours, and
all I have to do is turn the thermostat up, which I turned down when I
went from the broken to the good heater (I had turned it up all the
way when I didnt' ssupspect the element was bad, so I had to turn it
down..)

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:18:21 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


No big deal to shut off the supply and drain the tank if you can run a
hose from the bib to a spot lower than the bottom of the tank. And
PUHLEEZE remember to turn off the electricity (or gas) to the heater
before you empty it or "yooooole be soooory". G

And not to turn it on again until *after* it is fully full with water.

Jeff

On 21 Mar 2007 11:39:51 -0700, "z" wrote:

OK, so Mr. compulsive here drains a little bucketful out of the drain
valve on the hot water heater every month or so, because that's
supposed to keep the sludge from building up on the bottom and that's
the right thing to do and I'm certainly going to maintain my equipment
so it lasts a long gime. Now, of course, the drain valve drools,
enough to see some wetness on the floor underenath, but not enough so
that I can detect exactly where it leaks.So, I'm not sure at this
point if it's through the valve or up the stem; tightening the valve
as far as I dared without breaking it (seems to be cheap nylon) didn't
help, so I tightened the packing nut a hair, and ended up getting a
cap to screw over the end of the drain valve; haven't looked at it
since. But are these rebuildable like a normal faucet, replacable
faucet washer and such, or are they specialized in design?


I haven't started to drain my water tank, but I was warned before
doing so, get a screw on cap. So if the valve leaks by you can cap
it. I don't know if this advice works, but before I start, I'll have
that cap.

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com

On Mar 22, 11:25 am, Just Joshin wrote:
On 21 Mar 2007 11:39:51 -0700, "z" wrote:

OK, so Mr. compulsive here drains a little bucketful out of the drain
valve on the hot water heater every month or so, because that's
supposed to keep the sludge from building up on the bottom and that's
the right thing to do and I'm certainly going to maintain my equipment
so it lasts a long gime. Now, of course, the drain valve drools,
enough to see some wetness on the floor underenath, but not enough so
that I can detect exactly where it leaks.So, I'm not sure at this
point if it's through the valve or up the stem; tightening the valve
as far as I dared without breaking it (seems to be cheap nylon) didn't
help, so I tightened the packing nut a hair, and ended up getting a
cap to screw over the end of the drain valve; haven't looked at it
since. But are these rebuildable like a normal faucet, replacable
faucet washer and such, or are they specialized in design?

I haven't started to drain my water tank, but I was warned before
doing so, get a screw on cap. So if the valve leaks by you can cap
it. I don't know if this advice works, but before I start, I'll have
that cap.

tom @www.NoCostAds.com

Well, as of this AM after a day with the cap on, there's more drool
than ever on the floor, so it's got to be coming up through the
packing around the stem, despite my having tightened the packing nut
as much as I dared. Either that, or the crummy nylon valve is cracked
or something. Hard to see the water on the white semitranslucent
plastic.

z wrote:
[...]

Well, as of this AM after a day with the cap on, there's more drool
than ever on the floor, so it's got to be coming up through the
packing around the stem, despite my having tightened the packing nut
as much as I dared. Either that, or the crummy nylon valve is cracked
or something. Hard to see the water on the white semitranslucent
plastic.


AFAIK, there is no way to repair those valves. Make one like shown
on this page:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2esavf
and replace it. If you have to replace the water heater later, then
remove the one you make and put it on your new heater when you
install it.
--
Grandpa

On Mar 22, 1:29 pm, Grandpa wrote:
z wrote:
[...]

Well, as of this AM after a day with the cap on, there's more drool
than ever on the floor, so it's got to be coming up through the
packing around the stem, despite my having tightened the packing nut
as much as I dared. Either that, or the crummy nylon valve is cracked
or something. Hard to see the water on the white semitranslucent
plastic.

AFAIK, there is no way to repair those valves. Make one like shown
on this page:http://preview.tinyurl.com/2esavf
and replace it. If you have to replace the water heater later, then
remove the one you make and put it on your new heater when you
install it.
--
Grandpa

Thanks. I didn't realize the drain valve was replacable.

On 22 Mar 2007 10:14:47 -0700, "z" wrote:

On Mar 22, 11:25 am, Just Joshin wrote:
On 21 Mar 2007 11:39:51 -0700, "z" wrote:

OK, so Mr. compulsive here drains a little bucketful out of the drain
valve on the hot water heater every month or so, because that's
supposed to keep the sludge from building up on the bottom and that's
the right thing to do and I'm certainly going to maintain my equipment
so it lasts a long gime. Now, of course, the drain valve drools,
enough to see some wetness on the floor underenath, but not enough so
that I can detect exactly where it leaks.So, I'm not sure at this
point if it's through the valve or up the stem; tightening the valve
as far as I dared without breaking it (seems to be cheap nylon) didn't
help, so I tightened the packing nut a hair, and ended up getting a
cap to screw over the end of the drain valve; haven't looked at it
since. But are these rebuildable like a normal faucet, replacable
faucet washer and such, or are they specialized in design?

I haven't started to drain my water tank, but I was warned before
doing so, get a screw on cap. So if the valve leaks by you can cap
it. I don't know if this advice works, but before I start, I'll have
that cap.

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com

Well, as of this AM after a day with the cap on, there's more drool
than ever on the floor, so it's got to be coming up through the
packing around the stem, despite my having tightened the packing nut
as much as I dared. Either that, or the crummy nylon valve is cracked
or something. Hard to see the water on the white semitranslucent
plastic.


IMHO,

If water is coming up around the packing glad the valve seat is really
not seated. Globe valves protect packing glands by having them
downstream of their seats. Guessing there was leak throu and when you
put the cap on, it pressurized it forcing leakage pass the packing
gland.

If this was me, I know I would be in the process of cycling it several
hundred times (atleast till I was tired) to clear any sediment from
the seating surfaces. After that I might look into replacing the
valve with something made of some metal. But I'm not in your shoes.

tom