Well, I'm sitting here in my kitchen with the oven on and open...
furnace quit about 9:30 or so. Home warranty people recommended some
guy that can't come out tonight. None of the "24 hour service" HVAC
people in the phone book apparently really do offer 24 hour service...
so for lack of anything better to do, anyone want to walk me through
trying to figure out what I need?

Furnace is a Ruud 90+ gas fired forced air unit. When I turn up the
thermostat, the blower kicks on, I hear the gas valve click open and
then the main blower kicks on, but the burner never ignites. It'll run
for a couple minutes, blowing cold air, and then shut itself off. I'm
guessing it's either the gas valve or the ignitor, but how to tell which
one?

nate

(kinda scared to go to bed with the oven going, I realize that this is
not a recommended method of heating one's house.)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
Well, I'm sitting here in my kitchen with the oven on and open...
furnace quit about 9:30 or so. Home warranty people recommended some
guy that can't come out tonight. None of the "24 hour service" HVAC
people in the phone book apparently really do offer 24 hour service...
so for lack of anything better to do, anyone want to walk me through
trying to figure out what I need?

Furnace is a Ruud 90+ gas fired forced air unit. When I turn up the
thermostat, the blower kicks on, I hear the gas valve click open and
then the main blower kicks on, but the burner never ignites. It'll run
for a couple minutes, blowing cold air, and then shut itself off. I'm
guessing it's either the gas valve or the ignitor, but how to tell which
one?

nate

(kinda scared to go to bed with the oven going, I realize that this is
not a recommended method of heating one's house.)


Update: after some googling I determined which component was the
ignitor. I disconnected it and found it to be completely open. I'm
guessing that this is the problem? Should I bother to place a service
call or just run down to the parts place as soon as they open and pick
one up? (better yet maybe two; googling also seemed to indicate that
this is a common failure of "high efficiency" type furnaces.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Mar 9, 3:09 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
Well, I'm sitting here in my kitchen with the oven on and open...
furnace quit about 9:30 or so. Home warranty people recommended some
guy that can't come out tonight. None of the "24 hour service" HVAC
people in the phone book apparently really do offer 24 hour service...
so for lack of anything better to do, anyone want to walk me through
trying to figure out what I need?

Furnace is a Ruud 90+ gas fired forced air unit. When I turn up the
thermostat, the blower kicks on, I hear the gas valve click open and
then the main blower kicks on, but the burner never ignites. It'll run
for a couple minutes, blowing cold air, and then shut itself off. I'm
guessing it's either the gas valve or the ignitor, but how to tell which
one?

nate

(kinda scared to go to bed with the oven going, I realize that this is
not a recommended method of heating one's house.)

Update: after some googling I determined which component was the
ignitor. I disconnected it and found it to be completely open. I'm
guessing that this is the problem? Should I bother to place a service
call or just run down to the parts place as soon as they open and pick
one up? (better yet maybe two; googling also seemed to indicate that
this is a common failure of "high efficiency" type furnaces.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If the ignitor is open, plus you can confirm you're getting 110v
across the ignitor leads, then it's probably the ignitor. I would just
buy one myself. Don't get 2 of them yet just in case it isn't the
problem.

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:09:04 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:
Well, I'm sitting here in my kitchen with the oven on and open...
furnace quit about 9:30 or so. Home warranty people recommended some
guy that can't come out tonight. None of the "24 hour service" HVAC
people in the phone book apparently really do offer 24 hour service...
so for lack of anything better to do, anyone want to walk me through
trying to figure out what I need?

Furnace is a Ruud 90+ gas fired forced air unit. When I turn up the
thermostat, the blower kicks on, I hear the gas valve click open and
then the main blower kicks on, but the burner never ignites. It'll run
for a couple minutes, blowing cold air, and then shut itself off. I'm
guessing it's either the gas valve or the ignitor, but how to tell which
one?

nate

(kinda scared to go to bed with the oven going, I realize that this is
not a recommended method of heating one's house.)


Update: after some googling I determined which component was the
ignitor. I disconnected it and found it to be completely open. I'm
guessing that this is the problem? Should I bother to place a service
call or just run down to the parts place as soon as they open and pick
one up? (better yet maybe two; googling also seemed to indicate that
this is a common failure of "high efficiency" type furnaces.)

nate

If you cant get a serviceman out anyhow, you may as well wait till
morning and get your own part, providing you know how to change it.

I've heated with the oven on for short periods of time. I would not
leave it on all night though. Get it hot in the house and use lots of
blankets. An electric space heater in the bedrooms would help too.
I assume you know how to use them safely, and not near the bed, where
a blanket could fall on them.

If this fixes your problem, I would buy a spare ignitor if you plan to
stay in that home for years more.

I have a feeling if you placed a flame in the burner at precisely the
moment the ignitor was supposed to ignite, you might get the furnace
started, but only until it shuts off again.

I'm glad I have a wood stove. Its always there if the furnace quits,
and saves on fuel too. I just have to keep reminding myself to use it
and not be lazy to haul in wood.

wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:09:04 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:


Nate Nagel wrote:

Well, I'm sitting here in my kitchen with the oven on and open...
furnace quit about 9:30 or so. Home warranty people recommended some
guy that can't come out tonight. None of the "24 hour service" HVAC
people in the phone book apparently really do offer 24 hour service...
so for lack of anything better to do, anyone want to walk me through
trying to figure out what I need?

Furnace is a Ruud 90+ gas fired forced air unit. When I turn up the
thermostat, the blower kicks on, I hear the gas valve click open and
then the main blower kicks on, but the burner never ignites. It'll run
for a couple minutes, blowing cold air, and then shut itself off. I'm
guessing it's either the gas valve or the ignitor, but how to tell which
one?

nate

(kinda scared to go to bed with the oven going, I realize that this is
not a recommended method of heating one's house.)


Update: after some googling I determined which component was the
ignitor. I disconnected it and found it to be completely open. I'm
guessing that this is the problem? Should I bother to place a service
call or just run down to the parts place as soon as they open and pick
one up? (better yet maybe two; googling also seemed to indicate that
this is a common failure of "high efficiency" type furnaces.)

nate


If you cant get a serviceman out anyhow, you may as well wait till
morning and get your own part, providing you know how to change it.

I've heated with the oven on for short periods of time. I would not
leave it on all night though. Get it hot in the house and use lots of
blankets. An electric space heater in the bedrooms would help too.
I assume you know how to use them safely, and not near the bed, where
a blanket could fall on them.

If this fixes your problem, I would buy a spare ignitor if you plan to
stay in that home for years more.

I have a feeling if you placed a flame in the burner at precisely the
moment the ignitor was supposed to ignite, you might get the furnace
started, but only until it shuts off again.

I'm glad I have a wood stove. Its always there if the furnace quits,
and saves on fuel too. I just have to keep reminding myself to use it
and not be lazy to haul in wood.

Done and done. It was the ignitor. Hit the appliance parts place
before they opened (at 8:30) was at home and had heat by 9AM.

Ended up using the oven all night and moving the electric oil-filled
radiator thing back and forth between the basement and 2nd floor. I do
have a wood stove but never stocked up on wood having just bought the
place not long ago.

Total cost of repair was $55ish (including spare ignitor) so I guess
it's hardly worth going to the home warranty people at this point, what
with a $50 deductible and all. Only peeve is the fact that there's tons
of HVAC people in the phone book that advertise 24 hour service and yet
you can't get someone after hours when you really have an issue. (yeah,
I was going to "let the pros handle it" but it is still apparently
easier and faster to just DIY.)

Now that I've paid attention to how this works, I could have diagnosed
it instantly had I known what to look for. That ignitor sure is bright
when it heats up! I thought about your idea of trying to manually light
the burner, but was too chicken to actually try it. I've done it tons
of times with recalcitrant stoves, but I just had this possibly
irrational fear of causing a massive fireball in my basement...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 09:24:09 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:09:04 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:


Nate Nagel wrote:

Well, I'm sitting here in my kitchen with the oven on and open...
furnace quit about 9:30 or so. Home warranty people recommended some
guy that can't come out tonight. None of the "24 hour service" HVAC
people in the phone book apparently really do offer 24 hour service...
so for lack of anything better to do, anyone want to walk me through
trying to figure out what I need?

Furnace is a Ruud 90+ gas fired forced air unit. When I turn up the
thermostat, the blower kicks on, I hear the gas valve click open and
then the main blower kicks on, but the burner never ignites. It'll run
for a couple minutes, blowing cold air, and then shut itself off. I'm
guessing it's either the gas valve or the ignitor, but how to tell which
one?

nate

(kinda scared to go to bed with the oven going, I realize that this is
not a recommended method of heating one's house.)


Update: after some googling I determined which component was the
ignitor. I disconnected it and found it to be completely open. I'm
guessing that this is the problem? Should I bother to place a service
call or just run down to the parts place as soon as they open and pick
one up? (better yet maybe two; googling also seemed to indicate that
this is a common failure of "high efficiency" type furnaces.)

nate


If you cant get a serviceman out anyhow, you may as well wait till
morning and get your own part, providing you know how to change it.

I've heated with the oven on for short periods of time. I would not
leave it on all night though. Get it hot in the house and use lots of
blankets. An electric space heater in the bedrooms would help too.
I assume you know how to use them safely, and not near the bed, where
a blanket could fall on them.

If this fixes your problem, I would buy a spare ignitor if you plan to
stay in that home for years more.

I have a feeling if you placed a flame in the burner at precisely the
moment the ignitor was supposed to ignite, you might get the furnace
started, but only until it shuts off again.

I'm glad I have a wood stove. Its always there if the furnace quits,
and saves on fuel too. I just have to keep reminding myself to use it
and not be lazy to haul in wood.

Done and done. It was the ignitor. Hit the appliance parts place
before they opened (at 8:30) was at home and had heat by 9AM.

Ended up using the oven all night and moving the electric oil-filled
radiator thing back and forth between the basement and 2nd floor. I do
have a wood stove but never stocked up on wood having just bought the
place not long ago.

Total cost of repair was $55ish (including spare ignitor) so I guess
it's hardly worth going to the home warranty people at this point, what
with a $50 deductible and all. Only peeve is the fact that there's tons
of HVAC people in the phone book that advertise 24 hour service and yet
you can't get someone after hours when you really have an issue. (yeah,
I was going to "let the pros handle it" but it is still apparently
easier and faster to just DIY.)

Now that I've paid attention to how this works, I could have diagnosed
it instantly had I known what to look for. That ignitor sure is bright
when it heats up! I thought about your idea of trying to manually light
the burner, but was too chicken to actually try it. I've done it tons
of times with recalcitrant stoves, but I just had this possibly
irrational fear of causing a massive fireball in my basement...

nate

Glad you got it going and was a relatively easy and cheap.
That 24 hour service is apparently only for the city mayor and police
chief

Get yourself a few days worth of firewood if you got that woodstove,
you may as well have it useful if you need it again.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
Done and done. It was the ignitor. Hit the appliance parts place before
they opened (at 8:30) was at home and had heat by 9AM.

Total cost of repair was $55ish (including spare ignitor) so I guess it's
hardly worth going to the home warranty people at this point, what with a
$50 deductible and all. Only peeve is the fact that there's tons of HVAC
people in the phone book that advertise 24 hour service and yet you can't
get someone after hours when you really have an issue. (yeah, I was going
to "let the pros handle it" but it is still apparently easier and faster
to just DIY.)

Good for you. You've learned three important lessons
1. How to diagnose common heater problems
2. Home warranties are pretty much useless
3. You can't always rely on the pro. There are some very good ones though.

If you have to rely on a pro for everything, home ownership is much more
expensive. You did good.

Consider yourself lucky that no "24 hour" people would come out. If
so, it would have cost $150 for the ignitor, $200 labor, $175 after
hours charge, and $50 for shop supplies. Plus mileage. That is, of
course, if they'd fix it at all since your old builders grade furnace
is obviously completely worn out and in need of replacement .

Also consider yourself lucky that you have an appliance parts store
that'll deal with a non-contractor. There isn't one in my state that
will.


-rev



On Mar 9, 9:24 am, Nate Nagel wrote:

Done and done. It was the ignitor. Hit the appliance parts place
before they opened (at 8:30) was at home and had heat by 9AM.

Ended up using the oven all night and moving the electric oil-filled
radiator thing back and forth between the basement and 2nd floor. I do
have a wood stove but never stocked up on wood having just bought the
place not long ago.

Total cost of repair was $55ish (including spare ignitor) so I guess
it's hardly worth going to the home warranty people at this point, what
with a $50 deductible and all. Only peeve is the fact that there's tons
of HVAC people in the phone book that advertise 24 hour service and yet
you can't get someone after hours when you really have an issue. (yeah,
I was going to "let the pros handle it" but it is still apparently
easier and faster to just DIY.)

Now that I've paid attention to how this works, I could have diagnosed
it instantly had I known what to look for. That ignitor sure is bright
when it heats up! I thought about your idea of trying to manually light
the burner, but was too chicken to actually try it. I've done it tons
of times with recalcitrant stoves, but I just had this possibly
irrational fear of causing a massive fireball in my basement...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:48:19 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Well, I'm sitting here in my kitchen with the oven on and open...
furnace quit about 9:30 or so. Home warranty people recommended some
guy that can't come out tonight. None of the "24 hour service" HVAC
people in the phone book apparently really do offer 24 hour service...
so for lack of anything better to do, anyone want to walk me through
trying to figure out what I need?

Furnace is a Ruud 90+ gas fired forced air unit. When I turn up the
thermostat, the blower kicks on, I hear the gas valve click open and
then the main blower kicks on, but the burner never ignites. It'll run
for a couple minutes, blowing cold air, and then shut itself off. I'm
guessing it's either the gas valve or the ignitor, but how to tell which
one?

nate

(kinda scared to go to bed with the oven going, I realize that this is
not a recommended method of heating one's house.)


Just wander over to a local department store and buy
a couple 1500 watt electric space heaters.
Those will keep the house habitable for a day or so,
until you can get the furnace repaired.

Plug them in on different circuts.

The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
Consider yourself lucky that no "24 hour" people would come out. If
so, it would have cost $150 for the ignitor, $200 labor, $175 after
hours charge, and $50 for shop supplies. Plus mileage. That is, of
course, if they'd fix it at all since your old builders grade furnace
is obviously completely worn out and in need of replacement .

Also consider yourself lucky that you have an appliance parts store
that'll deal with a non-contractor. There isn't one in my state that
will.

Here's where I went:

http://www.triblesapplianceparts.com

they do mail order too, and their prices I've found to be competitive
with online retailers. In this specific case it was actually lower than
any online price I found. (I did a search for the ignitor last night
just so I'd have an idea of what kind of hurt I was in for.) I've been
dealing with them for years, not only do they have a brick and mortar
store near my house, they have one near my office and another one near
my previous office as well. I've obviously never had to do mail order
with them but 50% of the time they have what I need in stock and the
other 50% of the time they've been able to get my parts quickly.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel writes:

Now that I've paid attention to how this works, I could have diagnosed
it instantly had I known what to look for. That ignitor sure is bright
when it heats up!

It's always a good idea to be familiar with the sights and sounds your
appliances make when they're running correctly, since when they break
you may be able to tell immediately what is missing. My furnace is one
of the 80% types. When it starts, the inducer fan runs for a few
seconds, then the pilot light turns on and is ignited (spark igniter),
then after a few more seconds the main gas valve opens and the main
flames appear. A dead igniter would give no sparking sounds.

I thought about your idea of trying to manually light
the burner, but was too chicken to actually try it. I've done it tons
of times with recalcitrant stoves, but I just had this possibly
irrational fear of causing a massive fireball in my basement...

It's probably safer than in a stove, because of the forced draft in a HE
furnace. That guarantees you won't get an accumulation of gas in one
spot. If your igniter lights the main flame directly, you could
probably do the same thing with a barbecue lighter held in about the
same place at the right time. With a furnace like mine, I'd have to
use the lighter to get the pilot flame lit at the right time, or the
safety circuitry would never open the main gas valve.

At times like this, I wonder how much it would cost manufacturers to
include an old-fashioned standing pilot light in addition to the
on-demand ignition. It might remain unused for 20 years, but when your
igniter fails you'd be able to light the standby pilot and have heat.

Dave

Since you've got the problem diagnosed, replace the ignitor
yourself. And it's a good idea to buy two, as they are a common
replace part.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
:
: Update: after some googling I determined which component was
the
: ignitor. I disconnected it and found it to be completely open.
I'm
: guessing that this is the problem? Should I bother to place a
service
: call or just run down to the parts place as soon as they open
and pick
: one up? (better yet maybe two; googling also seemed to
indicate that
: this is a common failure of "high efficiency" type furnaces.)
:
: nate
:
: --
: replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
: http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 22:17:11 +0000 (UTC), (Dave
Martindale) wrote:

It's always a good idea to be familiar with the sights and sounds your
appliances make when they're running correctly, since when they break
you may be able to tell immediately what is missing.


Excellent advice. The other "must do" exercise is to keep clean any
appliance you have if not regularly, then at least often enough to be
famliar with the layout and general construction of the appliance.
For example in a stove where are the fuses and hidden traps for food
spills (grunge = corrosion + smells). Fridge (any mel****er corrosion
behind the veggie drawers, clean evaporator tray on bottom and
compressor coils at back. Your furnace filter and fan compartment
where if clean you will notice any unusual wear and know what to look
for to replace.