My house is a 1950's brick walkup. There is a chimney that runs from
the basement and up through the kitchen and out the roof. There is no
fireplace or woodstove hooked up to this chimney; just the gas
furnace. The chimney is brick. It appears to have a liner of some kind
of clay or ceramic stuff. There is a metal roof over the top of the
chimney opening.

Where the chimney passes through the kitchen, it juts out from the
wall and is plastered over. Just this winter, I have started noticing
water damage in the plaster. It appears moisture is destroying the
plaster from the inside, discoloring it brown and making it bubble up.
The damage does seem to be located more toward the top of the chimney,
near the ceiling of the kitchen.

I have only owned the house for two years, so I don't know for sure if
this is a recurrent problem. I'm guessing it is. It could have been
patched over before we bought the house, and only now starting to show
damage.

I went up on the roof to see where water might be getting in. The
concrete crown on top of the chimney looks to be in good shape. All
the brickwork and mortar looks sound up there. There are no obvious
problems with the flashing or the shingles around the base of the
chimney. The flashing material looks to be some kind of brown-painted
sheet metal. Someone has caulked around the edges of the sheet metal
with clear silicone caulk.

Since there are no obvious problems up above, I am wondering if there
may be moisture coming from inside the chimney somehow? It is
suspicous to me that we only started having this problem when the
weather got cold and we were running the furnace. Of course that could
be a coincidence, if the previous owner did a patch job that held for
2 years, and the underlying problem is only now starting to reveal
itself.

Does anyone have any suggestions to help me diagnose and repair this
problem?

"alath" wrote in message
Since there are no obvious problems up above, I am wondering if there
may be moisture coming from inside the chimney somehow? It is
suspicous to me that we only started having this problem when the
weather got cold and we were running the furnace. Of course that could
be a coincidence, if the previous owner did a patch job that held for
2 years, and the underlying problem is only now starting to reveal
itself.

Does anyone have any suggestions to help me diagnose and repair this
problem?

To say for sure, you'd need a reputable chmney inspector. It may be from
condensation. One of the products of combustion of natural gas is water.
With the cold weather, it will condense in the chimney and drip back down.
There may be some blockage from an animal next in there too making it worse.
Liner may have cracked allowing it to seep through.

On Feb 28, 11:33�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"alath" wrote in message
Since there are no obvious problems up above, I am wondering if there
may be moisture coming from inside the chimney somehow? It is
suspicous to me that we only started having this problem when the
weather got cold and we were running the furnace. Of course that could
be a coincidence, if the previous owner did a patch job that held for
2 years, and the underlying problem is only now starting to reveal
itself.

Does anyone have any suggestions to help me diagnose and repair this
problem?

To say for sure, you'd need a reputable chmney inspector. It may be from
condensation. *One of the products of combustion of natural gas is water.
With the cold weather, it will condense in the chimney and drip back down.
There may be some blockage from an animal next in there too making it worse.
Liner may have cracked allowing it to seep through.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

you 100% guaranteed fix! Replace furnace with direct vent, abandon and
remove chimney to at least below roof level, roof over offending area.

much lower fuel bills, new furnace increasing value of home, never a
chimney problem again EVER!

you can take chimney all the way out and gety more space in your
kitchen too

Yeah I know it costs but long term has many advantages

Well, if it's staining brown, then it is definitely moisture. Where
it's coming from is another thing. Since someone has siliconed the
roof, I'd say it's a re-occuring problem.

It may be coming from a roof opening around the chimney that is hard
to see, but I doubt it. You'll have to go into the attic and look to
see why moisture is pooling where it is, and where it's coming from.
It can be anything, even and improperly vented bathroom fan. You'll
just have to search and hunt for it.

If the plaster is sound ( you can't put your finger through it ) Just
repair it and touch it up. Don't make a months worth of work out of a
2 hour fix.

Don





On 28 Feb 2007 19:26:01 -0800, "alath" wrote:

My house is a 1950's brick walkup. There is a chimney that runs from
the basement and up through the kitchen and out the roof. There is no
fireplace or woodstove hooked up to this chimney; just the gas
furnace. The chimney is brick. It appears to have a liner of some kind
of clay or ceramic stuff. There is a metal roof over the top of the
chimney opening.

Where the chimney passes through the kitchen, it juts out from the
wall and is plastered over. Just this winter, I have started noticing
water damage in the plaster. It appears moisture is destroying the
plaster from the inside, discoloring it brown and making it bubble up.
The damage does seem to be located more toward the top of the chimney,
near the ceiling of the kitchen.

I have only owned the house for two years, so I don't know for sure if
this is a recurrent problem. I'm guessing it is. It could have been
patched over before we bought the house, and only now starting to show
damage.

I went up on the roof to see where water might be getting in. The
concrete crown on top of the chimney looks to be in good shape. All
the brickwork and mortar looks sound up there. There are no obvious
problems with the flashing or the shingles around the base of the
chimney. The flashing material looks to be some kind of brown-painted
sheet metal. Someone has caulked around the edges of the sheet metal
with clear silicone caulk.

Since there are no obvious problems up above, I am wondering if there
may be moisture coming from inside the chimney somehow? It is
suspicous to me that we only started having this problem when the
weather got cold and we were running the furnace. Of course that could
be a coincidence, if the previous owner did a patch job that held for
2 years, and the underlying problem is only now starting to reveal
itself.

Does anyone have any suggestions to help me diagnose and repair this
problem?

"alath" wrote
Someone has caulked around the edges of the sheet metal
with clear silicone caulk.

Does anyone have any suggestions to help me diagnose and repair this
problem?

I agree with Don. No reputable roofer would use silicone on
flashing/roofing. There has been, and probably still is, a problem area.

Attempt to find a reputable roofer experienced with custom flashing. Make
sure anyone you talk with, has a brake to bend flashing in an acceptable
fashion.

On Mar 1, 3:38 pm, "Moe" wrote:
"alath" wrote

Someone has caulked around the edges of the sheet metal
with clear silicone caulk.
Does anyone have any suggestions to help me diagnose and repair this
problem?

I agree with Don. No reputable roofer would use silicone on
flashing/roofing. There has been, and probably still is, a problem area.

Attempt to find a reputable roofer experienced with custom flashing. Make
sure anyone you talk with, has a brake to bend flashing in an acceptable
fashion.

If it were a flashing problem, why is the problem appearing in the
middle of the kitchen wall where the chimney is? Flashing problems
typically result in a roof leak, with water appearing at the ceiling,
not in the middle of the wall.

I'm with Edwin on this one. I'd start with a chimney inspection. It
could be a deteriorated chimney combined with condensation.
Depending on the inspection, you can decide what to do. If it's
condensation related, a steel liner may be a solution. That not only
keeps the water from getting into the house, but also from condensing
to begin with. The liner is much smaller, so the gases have less time
to cool down.

Of course, since a liner is $1K+, if it comes to that, you should
consider Hallerb's idea of going with a new direct vent furnace too.
Of course, if you have a gas WH, then you're looking at having to vent
that anyway or replace it too.

wrote

If it were a flashing problem, why is the problem appearing in the
middle of the kitchen wall where the chimney is? Flashing problems
typically result in a roof leak, with water appearing at the ceiling,
not in the middle of the wall.

Well, if you would read the post as written, and not put your on thoughts
into it, you probably would've read:

"alath" wrote:

The damage does seem to be located more toward the top of the chimney,
near the ceiling of the kitchen.

You would also know, no one puts silicone on flashing, unless there's a
problem. And, silicone is the wrong approach to solve any problem with the
mentioned

You sure do have all kinds of expensive ways to spend this persons money.

Would you spend your own money like this, when the problem is quite
obvious? Of course there's no guaranty it's a flashing problem, but it's
pretty simple to check, if you're know what you're doing.

On Mar 1, 5:51 pm, "Moe" wrote:
wrote

If it were a flashing problem, why is the problem appearing in the
middle of the kitchen wall where the chimney is? Flashing problems
typically result in a roof leak, with water appearing at the ceiling,
not in the middle of the wall.

Well, if you would read the post as written, and not put your on thoughts
into it, you probably would've read:

"alath" wrote:
The damage does seem to be located more toward the top of the chimney,
near the ceiling of the kitchen.

Yes, obviously I missed that he did say it was near the ceiling.



You would also know, no one puts silicone on flashing, unless there's a
problem. And, silicone is the wrong approach to solve any problem with the
mentioned

You sure do have all kinds of expensive ways to spend this persons money.

He has a house that is 50 years old and he's only owned it for 2 years
so he has no history. I don't think it's unreasonable to have that
chimney inspected. Nor is it expensive. That was where both I and
another poster recomended he start.


Would you spend your own money like this, when the problem is quite
obvious? Of course there's no guaranty it's a flashing problem, but it's
pretty simple to check, if you're know what you're doing.

Yes, I would have my own 50 year old chimney inspected under these
conditions. I'd rather know what's going on inside, how
deteriorated it may be, than to wait till CO leaks into the house or
it falls down. Plus many chimney guys can also give an opinion as
to what's going on with the flashing.

wrote in message
ps.com...

He has a house that is 50 years old and he's only owned it for 2 years
so he has no history. I don't think it's unreasonable to have that
chimney inspected. Nor is it expensive. That was where both I and
another poster recomended he start.


The problem is, you want him to start with a more expensive diagnosis.



Yes, I would have my own 50 year old chimney inspected under these
conditions. I'd rather know what's going on inside, how
deteriorated it may be, than to wait till CO leaks into the house or
it falls down. Plus many chimney guys can also give an opinion as
to what's going on with the flashing.

You are really going out there on a limb, you got the guy's chimney
emitting CO & falling down. He said it's leaking around the chimney, and
showing up near the ceiling. I didn't read any place where they said the CO
detector was going off, they do have these little meters with alarms which
will tell you this, believe it or not.

You also previously stated: " Depending on the inspection, you can decide
what to do. If it's
condensation related, a steel liner may be a solution. That not only keeps
the water from getting into the house, but also from condensing to begin
with. The liner is much smaller, so the gases have less time to cool
down."

You don't put a liner in the chimney, just to run venting for HVAC. Talk
about a bunch of nonsense, and throwing away money!

You also got the guy buying a new furnace & possibly a water heater! "Of
course, since a liner is $1K+, if it comes to that, you should consider
Hallerb's idea of going with a new direct vent furnace too.Of course, if
you have a gas WH, then you're looking at having to vent that anyway or
replace it too."

Good grief man, give it a rest! You give out some really expensive
information, thank the good Lord, you don't do this for a living.

As far as a chimney guy "giving" an "opinion", I worked with custom
flashing for close to 30 years, and met a lot of trades persons, and worked
side by side with different trades. And, a sheet metal worker will do the
flashing, not a "chimney guy". I for one would not trust a "chimney guy" or
mason, over the work of a sheet metal worker, with an emphasis on roofing
materials.

Had the chimney pro out for a look.

The chimney is too large diameter for the furnace. This causes
condensation about halfway up the chimney, which is leaking out into
the plaster work. Chimney guy's solution was to place a liner inside
the chimney, and as predicted, this runs about $1K.

He did mention the option of replacing the furnace with a direct vent
furnace, but it is a new furnace ('03/04) and a relatively effecient
one, so I can't see replacing the furnace.

Line the chimney it is, then.

On Mar 3, 4:03 pm, "alath" wrote:
Had the chimney pro out for a look.

The chimney is too large diameter for the furnace. This causes
condensation about halfway up the chimney, which is leaking out into
the plaster work. Chimney guy's solution was to place a liner inside
the chimney, and as predicted, this runs about $1K.

He did mention the option of replacing the furnace with a direct vent
furnace, but it is a new furnace ('03/04) and a relatively effecient
one, so I can't see replacing the furnace.

Line the chimney it is, then.


Good for you! Thanks for the update. All to often we don't hear how
things turn out.

And how sweet it is!

Heh Don, remember this gem:

"With the make-shift patch of silicone on the roof, I'm 99% sure that
is the source of the problem. " Doh!

Or how about that genius Moe, who said I was an idiot for suggesting
in my first post that you get an inspection and that condensation in
an oversize chimney might be the problem. Moe then ridiculed me for
suggesting a steel chimney liner might be used on a furnace for
exactly this problem? LOL

And of course, by doing the right thing and getting it inspected,
you've saved the chimney from failing do to the acidic flue gases
condensing and destroying it over time.

That;s my last word on this thread. I'm off to go snowboarding for a
few days. By all!!

On Mar 3, 5:43�pm, wrote:
On Mar 3, 4:03 pm, "alath" wrote:

Had the chimney pro out for a look.

The chimney is too large diameter for the furnace. This causes
condensation about halfway up the chimney, which is leaking out into
the plaster work. Chimney guy's solution was to place a liner inside
the chimney, and as predicted, this runs about $1K.

He did mention the option of replacing the furnace with a direct vent
furnace, but it is a new furnace ('03/04) and a relatively effecient
one, so I can't see replacing the furnace.

Line the chimney it is, then.

Good for you! * Thanks for the update. *All to often we don't hear how
things turn out.

And how sweet it is!

Heh Don, remember this gem:

"With the make-shift patch of silicone on the roof, I'm 99% sure that
is the source of the problem. " * *Doh!

Or how about that genius Moe, who said I was an idiot for suggesting
in my first post that you get an inspection and that condensation in
an oversize chimney might be the problem. *Moe then ridiculed me for
suggesting a steel chimney liner might be used on a furnace for
exactly this problem? * LOL

And of course, by doing the right thing and getting it inspected,
you've saved the chimney from failing do to the acidic flue gases
condensing and destroying it over time.

That;s my last word on this thread. * I'm off to go snowboarding for a
few days. * By all!!

Hey it all worked out, and if it was a elderly furnace you may have
decided to replace it.

I give OPTIONS, its up to the poster to decide what to do!

and please let us know if the liner stops the leak.

"alath" wrote in message
oups.com...
Had the chimney pro out for a look.

The chimney is too large diameter for the furnace. This causes
condensation about halfway up the chimney, which is leaking out into
the plaster work. Chimney guy's solution was to place a liner inside
the chimney, and as predicted, this runs about $1K.

He did mention the option of replacing the furnace with a direct vent
furnace, but it is a new furnace ('03/04) and a relatively effecient
one, so I can't see replacing the furnace.

Line the chimney it is, then.