Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

If you have a 15 or 20 amp dedicated outlet for something like an
airconditioner, it can be converted at the breaker panel from 240 to 120
volt, but if you're looking to tap 120 volts from an existing 240 volt
outlet, it would need a neutral conductor, which many 240 volt outlets won't
have



"cc" wrote in message
ups.com...
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

"cc" wrote in message
ups.com...
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

How many amps is the circuit?
How many wires is the circuit?

Assuming you want to install a 120v 20a (or 15a) outlet, the 240v circuit
cannont be over 20a (or 15a).
And it will have to be 3wire so you have a neutral for your 120v outlet; and
that would be odd to find on a 20a 240v circuit.

So, you probably have too much amperage, or not enough wires; so you
probably can't do it.
The electrician might have been thinking of using the ground wire as a
neutral. That is certainly against code, and while it would work, isn't
something you want to do. I hope a magazine didn't recommend it.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 04:24:50 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"cc" wrote in message
oups.com...
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

How many amps is the circuit?
How many wires is the circuit?

Assuming you want to install a 120v 20a (or 15a) outlet, the 240v circuit
cannont be over 20a (or 15a).
And it will have to be 3wire so you have a neutral for your 120v outlet; and
that would be odd to find on a 20a 240v circuit.

So, you probably have too much amperage, or not enough wires; so you
probably can't do it.

How can he have too much amperage available? If the wires two the 120
volt circuit are as big as the wires to the original circuit, and the
receptacle is big enough to handle whatever is plugged in, how can
there be too much amperage?

The rest I agree with.

The electrician might have been thinking of using the ground wire as a
neutral. That is certainly against code, and while it would work, isn't
something you want to do. I hope a magazine didn't recommend it.

mm wrote:

How can he have too much amperage available? If the wires two the 120
volt circuit are as big as the wires to the original circuit, and the
receptacle is big enough to handle whatever is plugged in, how can
there be too much amperage?

I'm assuming that the OP wants to hook up a standard 15A duplex
receptacle. If the original circuit is more than 20A then generally you
cannot wire a 15A receptacle to it.

Chris

In article . com,
cc wrote:
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..


Ignoring code, if it is a 4 wire 220V outlet with 2 hots, a neutral
and a ground, an adapter that connected to one of the hots, the neutral
and the ground would be safe. OTOH, if it is a 3 wire 220V outlet, with
2 hots and a ground only, then there is no neutral to connect to. It
would be possible to get 120 by connecting to one hot and the ground
in this case, and in fact for small loads like lights or controls on
220v appliances, this used to be common practice. Personally, I might use
such an arrangement for a temporary, one-time job, perhaps connecting
a light or small powertool if there was no other outlet within
convenient distance, but not for a permanent outlet.
to
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

That's probably the most important part of your post. If you're not an
electrcian, why are you even thinking about doing something you
clearly don't understand.

cc wrote:
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

They sell plugs that will do just this. I bought one for my Bosch washing
machine. 220 plug with the blades turned 90 degrees from normal and a normal
120 for the dryer. It was nice to find because I thought I would have to add
a box to get 220 to the new washer.

Rich

In article , mm wrote:

How can he have too much amperage available? If the wires two the 120
volt circuit are as big as the wires to the original circuit, and the
receptacle is big enough to handle whatever is plugged in, how can
there be too much amperage?

It's real simple: the electrical code requires that the receptacle's amperage
rating cannot be less than that of the circuit. The only exceptions are that
15A receptacles are permitted on 20A circuits, and receptacles rated less than
15A are permitted on 15A circuits.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 04:24:50 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"cc" wrote in message
roups.com...
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

How many amps is the circuit?
How many wires is the circuit?

Assuming you want to install a 120v 20a (or 15a) outlet, the 240v circuit
cannont be over 20a (or 15a).
And it will have to be 3wire so you have a neutral for your 120v outlet;
and
that would be odd to find on a 20a 240v circuit.

So, you probably have too much amperage, or not enough wires; so you
probably can't do it.

How can he have too much amperage available? If the wires two the 120
volt circuit are as big as the wires to the original circuit, and the
receptacle is big enough to handle whatever is plugged in, how can
there be too much amperage?

Well, if it is a 50a 240v circuit, you can't get get 20a 240v out of it
without installing a load center with a 20a breaker in it. That probably
goes beyond what the OP wants to do.

In article ,
says...
mm wrote:

How can he have too much amperage available? If the wires two the 120
volt circuit are as big as the wires to the original circuit, and the
receptacle is big enough to handle whatever is plugged in, how can
there be too much amperage?

I'm assuming that the OP wants to hook up a standard 15A duplex
receptacle. If the original circuit is more than 20A then generally you
cannot wire a 15A receptacle to it.

....unless you replace the 20A breaker with a 15A.

In article om,
says...
I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

That's probably the most important part of your post. If you're not an
electrcian, why are you even thinking about doing something you
clearly don't understand.

That's the whole point of asking a question in a newsgroup. Unlike
many of the pros here, most of weren't born with this knowledge. The
only way to gain this knowledge is through research. The newsgroups
seem to be a good source for useful information from those who have
already acquired this knowledge and are willing to share it. It's
also a good source for a list of gotchas from those who have already
made mistakes. This is, essentially, a DIY newsgroup. As such,
there are people here who are determined to do it themselves. Far
better that they embark on their adventure with an idea of what
they're doing rather than totally blind. If "Don't do it yourself!"
was a universally acceptable answer, I could just ask my Mom.

Brad wrote:
I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

That's probably the most important part of your post. If you're not an
electrcian, why are you even thinking about doing something you
clearly don't understand.

Many posts seem to indicate that electricians are not electricians.

cc wrote:
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..



*If* there is a neutral wire at the 220 outlet, yes you can. You
haven't given enough information here to give you a straight answer.

You might have to install a fused outlet to limit the current (see link
below) for instance, you want to tap 110V for a washing machine off the
220V dryer outlet if it has 4 wire. It's a really bad solution because
you will trip the breaker every time you run the dryer on a high heat
cycle and run the washer at the same time.

However, let's say you want to replace an electric range with a gas
range, and there is no 110V outlet for the igniter. This might actually
make sense -- but if it's only a 3 wire circuit you'll need to convert
it to 110V at the breaker box. (You'll end up with a 20A 110V outlet
wired with 8 guage wire) If it's a 4-wire range outlet, install
something like this next to it and get your electrician friend to tap
into one side of the range circuit:
http://doitbest.com/DoItBest/Main.as...=64&SKU=511654

It's probably easier and cheaper to just run a new circuit and do it right.

If it's a 220V outlet for an air conditioner, and you are installing a
110V unit, you just replace the receptacle with a 110V and rewire it at
the breaker to give one hot and one neutral wire instead of 2 hots.
(people do this one all the time)

Bob

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:34:38 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 04:24:50 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"cc" wrote in message
groups.com...
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

How many amps is the circuit?
How many wires is the circuit?

Assuming you want to install a 120v 20a (or 15a) outlet, the 240v circuit
cannont be over 20a (or 15a).
And it will have to be 3wire so you have a neutral for your 120v outlet;
and
that would be odd to find on a 20a 240v circuit.

So, you probably have too much amperage, or not enough wires; so you
probably can't do it.

How can he have too much amperage available? If the wires two the 120
volt circuit are as big as the wires to the original circuit, and the
receptacle is big enough to handle whatever is plugged in, how can
there be too much amperage?

Well, if it is a 50a 240v circuit, you can't get get 20a 240v out of it
without installing a load center with a 20a breaker in it. That probably
goes beyond what the OP wants to do.

OK. I don't get it, but I'll bear it in mind, and I won't do it
either.

In article , mm wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:34:38 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Well, if it is a 50a 240v circuit, you can't get get 20a 240v out of it
without installing a load center with a 20a breaker in it. That probably
goes beyond what the OP wants to do.

OK. I don't get it, but I'll bear it in mind, and I won't do it
either.

The point is that Code doesn't permit 20A receptacles on a 50A circuit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

mm writes:

How can he have too much amperage available? If the wires two the 120
volt circuit are as big as the wires to the original circuit, and the
receptacle is big enough to handle whatever is plugged in, how can
there be too much amperage?

The basic problem is that the breaker provides some protection to the
receptacle, as well as the wiring. If you try to draw 30 A from a 15 A
receptacle on a 15 A circuit, you'll trip the breaker. If you connect a
15 A receptacle to a circuit wired and fused for 30 A, you can draw 30 A
continuously, and that's safe for the wire but the receptacle may
overheat.

The breaker *also* provides some protection for the wires in the power
cord of the device plugged into the receptacle, until you get downstream
of the fuse in the device (if any). A short caused by frayed insulation
in the power cord will have to trip the branch circuit breaker. (This
isn't true in the UK, where individual plugs have fuses sized to protect
the cord and/or device).

Dave

In article , wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:58:54 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

The point is that Code doesn't permit 20A receptacles on a 50A circuit.

So why not just install a 50A recepticle and be done with it?

Because ordinary appliances can't be plugged into a 50A receptacle.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

It's possible to have a 220 socket without a neutral. So, to make
110 you'd have to run another wire back to the socket.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"cc" wrote in message
ups.com...
: Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet?
The
: electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT
I know
: one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.
:
: I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as
possible..thanks..
:

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:49:17 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:58:54 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:


The point is that Code doesn't permit 20A receptacles on a 50A circuit.


So why not just install a 50A recepticle and be done with it?

Then what do you do with the 15A and 20A plugs that don't fit?

(imagining an electric clock modified with a NEMA 5-50P)

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 23:19:31 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

It's possible to have a 220 socket without a neutral. So, to make
110 you'd have to run another wire back to the socket.

But you DO have a currently unused second hot. Couldn't you use that?

It may even be the right color.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 23:19:31 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

It's possible to have a 220 socket without a neutral. So, to make
110 you'd have to run another wire back to the socket.

But you DO have a currently unused second hot. Couldn't you use that?

I think the OP wanted to be able to use both 120V and 240V. If that's the
case, then, no, he couldn't.

It may even be the right color.

Not if the circuit was installed using one of your mythical black & red
cables...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

that'd be cool. A fuggin 40 dollar cord cap on a four dollar clock. LMAO!
Kind of like these punk assed kids putting a $2000 stereo in a junkassed $50
ricer.

--
Steve Barker


"Tony M" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:49:17 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:58:54 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:


The point is that Code doesn't permit 20A receptacles on a 50A circuit.


So why not just install a 50A recepticle and be done with it?

Then what do you do with the 15A and 20A plugs that don't fit?

(imagining an electric clock modified with a NEMA 5-50P)

On Feb 10, 1:00 am, (Larry) wrote:
In article . com,

cc wrote:
Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The
electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know
one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.

I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..

Ignoring code, if it is a 4 wire 220V outlet with 2 hots, a neutral
and a ground, an adapter that connected to one of the hots, the neutral
and the ground would be safe. OTOH, if it is a 3 wire 220V outlet, with
2 hots and a ground only, then there is no neutral to connect to. It
would be possible to get 120 by connecting to one hot and the ground
in this case, and in fact for small loads like lights or controls on
220v appliances, this used to be common practice. Personally, I might use
such an arrangement for a temporary, one-time job, perhaps connecting
a light or small powertool if there was no other outlet within
convenient distance, but not for a permanent outlet.

In one of my previous homes built in 1980, a three wire 50A range
outlet was still code. It was also common for ranges widely available
at the time to include a 120V convenience outlet (usually controlled
by the broken clock). I'm assuming that such configurations are
grandfathered into the more recent code, suggesting that safety is not
a major issue (otherwise, rewiring would have been mandated along with
subsidies for those unable to pay for such a change). I see that
newer ranges provide a jumper between neutral and ground to
accommodate three wire installations. What is the real downside to
such a configuration? Why was the code tightened up?

wrote:
On Feb 10, 1:00 am, (Larry) wrote:

In one of my previous homes built in 1980, a three wire 50A range
outlet was still code. It was also common for ranges widely available
at the time to include a 120V convenience outlet (usually controlled
by the broken clock).
LOL

I'm assuming that such configurations are
grandfathered into the more recent code, suggesting that safety is not
a major issue (otherwise, rewiring would have been mandated along with
subsidies for those unable to pay for such a change). I see that
newer ranges provide a jumper between neutral and ground to
accommodate three wire installations. What is the real downside to
such a configuration? Why was the code tightened up?


The code prohibits using a ground as a neutral and vice versa (this
being a grandfather exception, one of very few). If the neutral-ground
opened, the frame of the range would be hot. With separate neutral and
ground that would take 2 failures.

My favorite response is from gfretwell:
"The stove end was wired like they did in the WWII days when copper was
in short supply and we used a 3 wire cable. NFPA finally figured out the
war was over in 1999 (96?) and changed the code, requiring a 4 wire
circuit and plug."

--
bud--