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#1
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx
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#2
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
220 wiring can be thinner cable. electric bill will be the same, energy
used. |
#3
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
For single phase motors, if it draws 10 amps @120 volts, it draws 5 amps @
240. The circuit breaker will cost a whole lot more for 240 volt (GFCI), but I'd go with the higher voltage to keep the pool service more evenly divided "glen07" wrote in message ... I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx -- glen07 |
#4
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx The devil is in the details, but I doubt the difference will amount to much. Power lost in the wiring is I^2*R, which is probably what the electrician has in mind, but the wire used in the two cases won't be the same, so won't have the same R. I'd probably go with the 220 (240?) if it draws more than a kilowatt when operating. -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#5
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage and start
better also. Less current draw during startup also. -- Steve Barker "glen07" wrote in message ... I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx -- glen07 |
#6
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
RBM wrote:
For single phase motors, if it draws 10 amps @120 volts, it draws 5 amps ON EACH LEG, FOR A TOTAL OF 10 @ 240. The circuit breaker will cost a whole lot more for 240 volt (GFCI), but I'd go with the higher voltage to keep the pool service more evenly divided "glen07" wrote in message ... I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx -- glen07 |
#7
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx 120V is OK. 240 is better. If the cost is the same go 240. Don't expect to see a lot of difference between the two. I would usually go 240. -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
#8
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more expensive to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110. Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires, requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the contractor will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20 amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine. |
#9
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
I'm not sure what your point is. Mine is that there is no difference in
electrical consumption "Pop`" wrote in message news:gILbh.20566$yV.7407@trnddc07... RBM wrote: For single phase motors, if it draws 10 amps @120 volts, it draws 5 amps ON EACH LEG, FOR A TOTAL OF 10 @ 240. The circuit breaker will cost a whole lot more for 240 volt (GFCI), but I'd go with the higher voltage to keep the pool service more evenly divided "glen07" wrote in message ... I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx -- glen07 |
#10
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
RBM wrote:
I'm not sure what your point is. Mine is that there is no difference in electrical consumption There could be a small difference due to I^2R losses in the wiring. "Pop`" wrote in message news:gILbh.20566$yV.7407@trnddc07... RBM wrote: For single phase motors, if it draws 10 amps @120 volts, it draws 5 amps ON EACH LEG, FOR A TOTAL OF 10 @ 240. The circuit breaker will cost a whole lot more for 240 volt (GFCI), but I'd go with the higher voltage to keep the pool service more evenly divided "glen07" wrote in message ... I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx -- glen07 -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#11
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
"Steve Barker LT" wrote in message ... Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. -- Steve Barker Agreed, and more efficency in motors can lead to longer service life if that's worth anything. "glen07" wrote in message ... I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx -- glen07 |
#12
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
Steve Barker LT wrote:
Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage Why? and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#13
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:09 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote: glen07 wrote: I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more expensive to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110. Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires, requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the contractor will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20 amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine. 220 and 110 will use almost the same power. 220 will be a little more efficient because there is less voltage drop. I don't know what the difference in cost from a single pole and a two pole breaker is but that is really the only downside for using 220 I would guess around 6$ for the cheap ones. I vote 220 12 gage wire is 0.001546063 ohms / ft (2 x 100) ft would be 200*0.001546063 = .31 ohms If a 110 motor draws 15 amps then the power loss is I^2 R 15 x 15 x ..31 = 70W The same motor at 220 would be 7.5 amps 7.5 x 7.5 x.31 = 17.5 W 70W - 17.5W = 52.5 W You are wasting half the energy it takes to run a 100 Watt lamp. You pay for power at 1000W an hour. In my area last time I looked it was $0.08 / KWh 52.5 / 1000 X .08 = $0.0042 So every hour you run the motor you are wasting 4 tenths of a penny. I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
The circuit breaker is the real money as the wiring is going to be the same
regardless of the voltage (in this case). Single pole GFCI breaker is around $50 and double pole is around $125 "Terry" wrote in message ... On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:09 GMT, "Pop`" wrote: glen07 wrote: I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more expensive to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110. Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires, requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the contractor will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20 amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine. 220 and 110 will use almost the same power. 220 will be a little more efficient because there is less voltage drop. I don't know what the difference in cost from a single pole and a two pole breaker is but that is really the only downside for using 220 I would guess around 6$ for the cheap ones. I vote 220 12 gage wire is 0.001546063 ohms / ft (2 x 100) ft would be 200*0.001546063 = .31 ohms If a 110 motor draws 15 amps then the power loss is I^2 R 15 x 15 x .31 = 70W The same motor at 220 would be 7.5 amps 7.5 x 7.5 x.31 = 17.5 W 70W - 17.5W = 52.5 W You are wasting half the energy it takes to run a 100 Watt lamp. You pay for power at 1000W an hour. In my area last time I looked it was $0.08 / KWh 52.5 / 1000 X .08 = $0.0042 So every hour you run the motor you are wasting 4 tenths of a penny. I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. |
#15
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx Hi, 220 is more effiient without going into detailed theory. |
#16
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
CJT wrote:
Steve Barker LT wrote: Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage Why? and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. Hi, Why? Power factor! |
#17
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
You will not save, in either case. Same number of watts used.
The advantage with 220 is that you can use smaller wire to connect. So you get some upfront savings. Higher voltages also travel farther down the wire with less loss to heat. Since the amperage draw is is lower, there will be slightly less energy loss to warming the wires. But the difference is insignifigant. -- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. "glen07" wrote in message ... I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx -- glen07 |
#18
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
Why? Just cause of the double breaker?
-- Christopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. .. "Pop`" wrote in message news:NMLbh.20567$yV.17087@trnddc07... glen07 wrote: It's more expensive to INSTALL 220 wiring, |
#19
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
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#20
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
krw wrote:
In article feNbh.404818$R63.89414@pd7urf1no, says... CJT wrote: Steve Barker LT wrote: Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage Why? Less drop in the supply. and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. Hi, Why? Power factor! Do explain! Hmmm, Just simply KVA vs. Wattage for a given load. The close each other, the power factor is approaching unity(1). I don't want to go into details. Class room stuff. |
#21
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
Tony Hwang wrote:
CJT wrote: Steve Barker LT wrote: Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage Why? and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. Hi, Why? Power factor! Explain, please. -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#22
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
RBM wrote:
The circuit breaker is the real money as the wiring is going to be the same regardless of the voltage (in this case). Won't code require an additional conductor? Single pole GFCI breaker is around $50 and double pole is around $125 "Terry" wrote in message ... On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:09 GMT, "Pop`" wrote: glen07 wrote: I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more expensive to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110. Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires, requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the contractor will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20 amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine. 220 and 110 will use almost the same power. 220 will be a little more efficient because there is less voltage drop. I don't know what the difference in cost from a single pole and a two pole breaker is but that is really the only downside for using 220 I would guess around 6$ for the cheap ones. I vote 220 12 gage wire is 0.001546063 ohms / ft (2 x 100) ft would be 200*0.001546063 = .31 ohms If a 110 motor draws 15 amps then the power loss is I^2 R 15 x 15 x .31 = 70W The same motor at 220 would be 7.5 amps 7.5 x 7.5 x.31 = 17.5 W 70W - 17.5W = 52.5 W You are wasting half the energy it takes to run a 100 Watt lamp. You pay for power at 1000W an hour. In my area last time I looked it was $0.08 / KWh 52.5 / 1000 X .08 = $0.0042 So every hour you run the motor you are wasting 4 tenths of a penny. I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#23
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
krw wrote:
In article feNbh.404818$R63.89414@pd7urf1no, says... CJT wrote: Steve Barker LT wrote: Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage Why? Less drop in the supply. Yes, we've already discussed I^2*R drops, but those depend on the wire used, too. The poster to whom I responded seemed to imply there was more to it. And that's not really the efficiency of the motor, per se, but the efficiency of the delivery system. and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. Hi, Why? Power factor! Do explain! Indeed. -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#24
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
Tony Hwang wrote:
krw wrote: In article feNbh.404818$R63.89414@pd7urf1no, says... CJT wrote: Steve Barker LT wrote: Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage Why? Less drop in the supply. and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. Hi, Why? Power factor! Do explain! Hmmm, Just simply KVA vs. Wattage for a given load. The close each other, the power factor is approaching unity(1). I don't want to go into details. Class room stuff. We know what power factor is. But why do you think it's voltage dependent in a fashion that favors higher voltage systems? -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#25
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
The feed to the motor would be 3 conductors #12 regardless or the voltage
"CJT" wrote in message ... RBM wrote: The circuit breaker is the real money as the wiring is going to be the same regardless of the voltage (in this case). Won't code require an additional conductor? Single pole GFCI breaker is around $50 and double pole is around $125 "Terry" wrote in message ... On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:09 GMT, "Pop`" wrote: glen07 wrote: I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more expensive to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110. Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires, requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the contractor will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20 amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine. 220 and 110 will use almost the same power. 220 will be a little more efficient because there is less voltage drop. I don't know what the difference in cost from a single pole and a two pole breaker is but that is really the only downside for using 220 I would guess around 6$ for the cheap ones. I vote 220 12 gage wire is 0.001546063 ohms / ft (2 x 100) ft would be 200*0.001546063 = .31 ohms If a 110 motor draws 15 amps then the power loss is I^2 R 15 x 15 x .31 = 70W The same motor at 220 would be 7.5 amps 7.5 x 7.5 x.31 = 17.5 W 70W - 17.5W = 52.5 W You are wasting half the energy it takes to run a 100 Watt lamp. You pay for power at 1000W an hour. In my area last time I looked it was $0.08 / KWh 52.5 / 1000 X .08 = $0.0042 So every hour you run the motor you are wasting 4 tenths of a penny. I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#26
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
I don't see why either 220 or 110 supply will inherently have a lower or
higher power factor. The current and voltage should not necessarily have any phase shift differential because of the voltage difference. On the other hand, winding losses for a given horsepower motor should increase due to a lower voltage and thus a higher current being required, unless the motor has been wound with considerably larger gauge wire. Unless the motor has been designed and built to compensate with lighter parts elsewhere or lower friction elsewhere, it seems that a lower voltage 110 volt / higher current motor would be less efficient. Smarty "CJT" wrote in message ... Tony Hwang wrote: krw wrote: In article feNbh.404818$R63.89414@pd7urf1no, says... CJT wrote: Steve Barker LT wrote: Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage Why? Less drop in the supply. and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. Hi, Why? Power factor! Do explain! Hmmm, Just simply KVA vs. Wattage for a given load. The close each other, the power factor is approaching unity(1). I don't want to go into details. Class room stuff. We know what power factor is. But why do you think it's voltage dependent in a fashion that favors higher voltage systems? -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
#27
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what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.
Smarty wrote:
I don't see why either 220 or 110 supply will inherently have a lower or higher power factor. The current and voltage should not necessarily have any phase shift differential because of the voltage difference. On the other hand, winding losses for a given horsepower motor should increase due to a lower voltage and thus a higher current being required, unless the motor has been wound with considerably larger gauge wire. Unless the motor has been designed and built to compensate with lighter parts elsewhere or lower friction elsewhere, it seems that a lower voltage 110 volt / higher current motor would be less efficient. Smarty That makes sense. There are I^2*R losses in the motor as well as the feed wiring. I would hope they're not large relative to the work done, though. Thanks. "CJT" wrote in message ... Tony Hwang wrote: krw wrote: In article feNbh.404818$R63.89414@pd7urf1no, says... CJT wrote: Steve Barker LT wrote: Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage Why? Less drop in the supply. and start better also. Less current draw during startup also. Hi, Why? Power factor! Do explain! Hmmm, Just simply KVA vs. Wattage for a given load. The close each other, the power factor is approaching unity(1). I don't want to go into details. Class room stuff. We know what power factor is. But why do you think it's voltage dependent in a fashion that favors higher voltage systems? -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
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