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Cool what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220, but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done 110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx
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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

220 wiring can be thinner cable. electric bill will be the same, energy
used.

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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

For single phase motors, if it draws 10 amps @120 volts, it draws 5 amps @
240. The circuit breaker will cost a whole lot more for 240 volt (GFCI), but
I'd go with the higher voltage to keep the pool service more evenly divided



"glen07" wrote in message
...

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have
an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




--
glen07



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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

glen07 wrote:

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have
an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




The devil is in the details, but I doubt the difference will
amount to much.

Power lost in the wiring is I^2*R, which is probably what the
electrician has in mind, but the wire used in the two cases
won't be the same, so won't have the same R.

I'd probably go with the 220 (240?) if it draws more than a
kilowatt when operating.

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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage and start
better also. Less current draw during startup also.

--
Steve Barker




"glen07" wrote in message
...

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have
an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




--
glen07





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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

RBM wrote:
For single phase motors, if it draws 10 amps @120 volts, it draws 5
amps ON EACH LEG, FOR A TOTAL OF 10 @ 240. The circuit breaker will cost
a whole lot more for 240
volt (GFCI), but I'd go with the higher voltage to keep the pool
service more evenly divided


"glen07" wrote in message
...

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




--
glen07




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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx


120V is OK. 240 is better. If the cost is the same go 240. Don't
expect to see a lot of difference between the two. I would usually go 240.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx


It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more expensive
to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110.
Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires,
requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the contractor
will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it
requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20
amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine.


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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

I'm not sure what your point is. Mine is that there is no difference in
electrical consumption


"Pop`" wrote in message
news:gILbh.20566$yV.7407@trnddc07...
RBM wrote:
For single phase motors, if it draws 10 amps @120 volts, it draws 5
amps ON EACH LEG, FOR A TOTAL OF 10 @ 240. The circuit breaker will cost
a whole lot more for 240
volt (GFCI), but I'd go with the higher voltage to keep the pool
service more evenly divided


"glen07" wrote in message
...

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




--
glen07






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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

RBM wrote:

I'm not sure what your point is. Mine is that there is no difference in
electrical consumption


There could be a small difference due to I^2R losses in the wiring.


"Pop`" wrote in message
news:gILbh.20566$yV.7407@trnddc07...

RBM wrote:

For single phase motors, if it draws 10 amps @120 volts, it draws 5
amps ON EACH LEG, FOR A TOTAL OF 10 @ 240. The circuit breaker will cost
a whole lot more for 240
volt (GFCI), but I'd go with the higher voltage to keep the pool
service more evenly divided


"glen07" wrote in message
...

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




--
glen07








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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.


"Steve Barker LT" wrote in message
...
Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage and
start better also. Less current draw during startup also.

--
Steve Barker


Agreed, and more efficency in motors can lead to longer service life if
that's worth anything.





"glen07" wrote in message
...

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have
an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




--
glen07





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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

Steve Barker LT wrote:
Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage


Why?

and start
better also. Less current draw during startup also.



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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:09 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote:

glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx


It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more expensive
to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110.
Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires,
requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the contractor
will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it
requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20
amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine.


220 and 110 will use almost the same power. 220 will be a little more
efficient because there is less voltage drop.

I don't know what the difference in cost from a single pole and a two
pole breaker is but that is really the only downside for using 220 I
would guess around 6$ for the cheap ones.

I vote 220


12 gage wire is 0.001546063 ohms / ft

(2 x 100) ft would be 200*0.001546063 = .31 ohms

If a 110 motor draws 15 amps then the power loss is I^2 R 15 x 15 x
..31 = 70W

The same motor at 220 would be 7.5 amps 7.5 x 7.5 x.31 = 17.5 W

70W - 17.5W = 52.5 W You are wasting half the energy it takes to
run a 100 Watt lamp.


You pay for power at 1000W an hour. In my area last time I looked it
was $0.08 / KWh

52.5 / 1000 X .08 = $0.0042

So every hour you run the motor you are wasting 4 tenths of a penny.


I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.
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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

The circuit breaker is the real money as the wiring is going to be the same
regardless of the voltage (in this case). Single pole GFCI breaker is around
$50 and double pole is around $125


"Terry" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:09 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote:

glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx


It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more
expensive
to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110.
Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires,
requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the
contractor
will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it
requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20
amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine.


220 and 110 will use almost the same power. 220 will be a little more
efficient because there is less voltage drop.

I don't know what the difference in cost from a single pole and a two
pole breaker is but that is really the only downside for using 220 I
would guess around 6$ for the cheap ones.

I vote 220


12 gage wire is 0.001546063 ohms / ft

(2 x 100) ft would be 200*0.001546063 = .31 ohms

If a 110 motor draws 15 amps then the power loss is I^2 R 15 x 15 x
.31 = 70W

The same motor at 220 would be 7.5 amps 7.5 x 7.5 x.31 = 17.5 W

70W - 17.5W = 52.5 W You are wasting half the energy it takes to
run a 100 Watt lamp.


You pay for power at 1000W an hour. In my area last time I looked it
was $0.08 / KWh

52.5 / 1000 X .08 = $0.0042

So every hour you run the motor you are wasting 4 tenths of a penny.


I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.



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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

glen07 wrote:
I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone have
an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




Hi,
220 is more effiient without going into detailed theory.


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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

CJT wrote:

Steve Barker LT wrote:

Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage



Why?

and start

better also. Less current draw during startup also.



Hi,
Why? Power factor!
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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

You will not save, in either case. Same number of watts used.

The advantage with 220 is that you can use smaller wire to connect. So
you get some upfront savings.

Higher voltages also travel farther down the wire with less loss to
heat.

Since the amperage draw is is lower, there will be slightly less
energy loss to warming the wires. But the difference is insignifigant.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"glen07" wrote in message
...

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have
an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx




--
glen07


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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

Why? Just cause of the double breaker?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Pop`" wrote in message
news:NMLbh.20567$yV.17087@trnddc07...
glen07 wrote:
It's more expensive
to INSTALL 220 wiring,



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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

In article feNbh.404818$R63.89414@pd7urf1no,
says...
CJT wrote:

Steve Barker LT wrote:

Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage



Why?


Less drop in the supply.

and start

better also. Less current draw during startup also.



Hi,
Why? Power factor!


Do explain!

--
Keith
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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

Tony Hwang wrote:

CJT wrote:

Steve Barker LT wrote:

Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage




Why?

and start

better also. Less current draw during startup also.



Hi,
Why? Power factor!


Explain, please.

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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

RBM wrote:

The circuit breaker is the real money as the wiring is going to be the same
regardless of the voltage (in this case).


Won't code require an additional conductor?

Single pole GFCI breaker is around
$50 and double pole is around $125


"Terry" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:09 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote:


glen07 wrote:

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx

It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more
expensive
to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110.
Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires,
requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the
contractor
will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it
requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common 20
amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine.


220 and 110 will use almost the same power. 220 will be a little more
efficient because there is less voltage drop.

I don't know what the difference in cost from a single pole and a two
pole breaker is but that is really the only downside for using 220 I
would guess around 6$ for the cheap ones.

I vote 220


12 gage wire is 0.001546063 ohms / ft

(2 x 100) ft would be 200*0.001546063 = .31 ohms

If a 110 motor draws 15 amps then the power loss is I^2 R 15 x 15 x
.31 = 70W

The same motor at 220 would be 7.5 amps 7.5 x 7.5 x.31 = 17.5 W

70W - 17.5W = 52.5 W You are wasting half the energy it takes to
run a 100 Watt lamp.


You pay for power at 1000W an hour. In my area last time I looked it
was $0.08 / KWh

52.5 / 1000 X .08 = $0.0042

So every hour you run the motor you are wasting 4 tenths of a penny.


I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .
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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

The feed to the motor would be 3 conductors #12 regardless or the voltage



"CJT" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:

The circuit breaker is the real money as the wiring is going to be the
same regardless of the voltage (in this case).


Won't code require an additional conductor?

Single pole GFCI breaker is around
$50 and double pole is around $125


"Terry" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:09 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote:


glen07 wrote:

I am installing an inground pool. the contractor is doing the basic
wiring bonding etc....The filter and control panel can be wired 220,
but pool guy says 110 is ok. The real electrician says he thinks it
should be 220....case closed in my mind, but he said it could be done
110, but it will reduce my electric bill if it is 220. Does anyone
have an opinion...am I saving pennies or dollars if I go 220....thx

It will NOT make any difference in your electric bill. It's more
expensive
to INSTALL 220 wiring, but if it doesn't matter, I'd stick with 110.
Reasons for not useing 110 would be a very long distance to run wires,
requires too large a ckt breaker, things like that. Oh, and the
contractor
will make a few more bucks on wire and connector overheads. IMO if it
requires 30A or more, I'd go 220, else 110 if it's the much more common
20
amps or 25 amps. 1.0 HP motor? 110 is fine.


220 and 110 will use almost the same power. 220 will be a little more
efficient because there is less voltage drop.

I don't know what the difference in cost from a single pole and a two
pole breaker is but that is really the only downside for using 220 I
would guess around 6$ for the cheap ones.

I vote 220


12 gage wire is 0.001546063 ohms / ft

(2 x 100) ft would be 200*0.001546063 = .31 ohms

If a 110 motor draws 15 amps then the power loss is I^2 R 15 x 15 x
.31 = 70W

The same motor at 220 would be 7.5 amps 7.5 x 7.5 x.31 = 17.5 W

70W - 17.5W = 52.5 W You are wasting half the energy it takes to
run a 100 Watt lamp.


You pay for power at 1000W an hour. In my area last time I looked it
was $0.08 / KWh

52.5 / 1000 X .08 = $0.0042

So every hour you run the motor you are wasting 4 tenths of a penny.


I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .





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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

I don't see why either 220 or 110 supply will inherently have a lower or
higher power factor. The current and voltage should not necessarily have any
phase shift differential because of the voltage difference.

On the other hand, winding losses for a given horsepower motor should
increase due to a lower voltage and thus a higher current being required,
unless the motor has been wound with considerably larger gauge wire. Unless
the motor has been designed and built to compensate with lighter parts
elsewhere or lower friction elsewhere, it seems that a lower voltage 110
volt / higher current motor would be less efficient.

Smarty


"CJT" wrote in message
...
Tony Hwang wrote:

krw wrote:

In article feNbh.404818$R63.89414@pd7urf1no, says...

CJT wrote:


Steve Barker LT wrote:


Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage



Why?



Less drop in the supply.


and start


better also. Less current draw during startup also.



Hi,
Why? Power factor!



Do explain!

Hmmm,
Just simply KVA vs. Wattage for a given load. The close each other, the
power factor is approaching unity(1). I don't want to go into details.
Class room stuff.


We know what power factor is.

But why do you think it's voltage dependent in a fashion that favors
higher voltage systems?

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Default what is better 110 or 220 if the appliance can be wired for both.

Smarty wrote:

I don't see why either 220 or 110 supply will inherently have a lower or
higher power factor. The current and voltage should not necessarily have any
phase shift differential because of the voltage difference.

On the other hand, winding losses for a given horsepower motor should
increase due to a lower voltage and thus a higher current being required,
unless the motor has been wound with considerably larger gauge wire. Unless
the motor has been designed and built to compensate with lighter parts
elsewhere or lower friction elsewhere, it seems that a lower voltage 110
volt / higher current motor would be less efficient.

Smarty


That makes sense. There are I^2*R losses in the motor as well as the
feed wiring. I would hope they're not large relative to the work done,
though.

Thanks.



"CJT" wrote in message
...

Tony Hwang wrote:


krw wrote:


In article feNbh.404818$R63.89414@pd7urf1no, says...


CJT wrote:



Steve Barker LT wrote:



Electric motors always run more efficiently at the higher voltage



Why?



Less drop in the supply.



and start



better also. Less current draw during startup also.



Hi,
Why? Power factor!



Do explain!


Hmmm,
Just simply KVA vs. Wattage for a given load. The close each other, the
power factor is approaching unity(1). I don't want to go into details.
Class room stuff.


We know what power factor is.

But why do you think it's voltage dependent in a fashion that favors
higher voltage systems?

--
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