I bought a four wire electric oven pigtail (two hots, a neutral and a
ground)
and was wondering what the gauge rating for each of the four wires
should be?

"CJ" writes:
I bought a four wire electric oven pigtail (two hots, a neutral and a
ground)
and was wondering what the gauge rating for each of the four wires
should be?

The two hots and neutral should be whatever is appropriate for a 40 A
circuit, probably 8 gauge copper. I don't know if the ground can be
smaller.

Dave

On Feb 9, 1:50 pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
"CJ" writes:
I bought a four wire electric oven pigtail (two hots, a neutral and a
ground)
and was wondering what the gauge rating for each of the four wires
should be?

The two hots and neutral should be whatever is appropriate for a 40 A
circuit, probably 8 gauge copper. I don't know if the ground can be
smaller.

Dave


The oven is on a 50 AMP circuit, so is 8 gauge enough. the next one
up would be 6 gauge?

In article . com, "CJ" wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:50 pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
"CJ" writes:
I bought a four wire electric oven pigtail (two hots, a neutral and a
ground)
and was wondering what the gauge rating for each of the four wires
should be?

The two hots and neutral should be whatever is appropriate for a 40 A
circuit, probably 8 gauge copper. I don't know if the ground can be
smaller.

It can. So can the neutral, for that matter, since the heating elements are
240V and don't use the neutral at all. The neutral wire is used for the
control circuits, ignitors, lights, fan (if there is one), etc. which are all
120V, but the total load of all that won't be more than 5 amps or so.

The oven is on a 50 AMP circuit, so is 8 gauge enough. the next one
up would be 6 gauge?

Yes, the next size up is 6 gauge, but it's doubtful that you need that. Check
the rating plate on the oven, and match the pigtail to that (not the the
breaker rating).

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

WHOA, don't listen to this guy, that is crap!

50 amps usually call for 6 gauge wire, in a short run like is used for a
stove, you could probably get by with 8 gauge, but I would stick with 6
gauge...just go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy one.

The ground wire can usually be 1 gauge below the other wires. It is really
only there for safety, if you get a short it can follow the ground path
instead of a person.

The neutral is the return path, it has to be the same guage. If you have
two hots that are the same phase, then the neutral would have to be up a
gauge...but that won't happen. They are always opposite phase by
approximately 180 degrees and therefore partially cancel each other out.

If you look in your main breaker, the neutral and ground buses are tied to
eachother.

Think of the voltage/current like water. It flows in through your hot wire,
then into your appliances, then back through the neutral line and into the
ground.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article . com, "CJ"
wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:50 pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
"CJ" writes:
I bought a four wire electric oven pigtail (two hots, a neutral and a
ground)
and was wondering what the gauge rating for each of the four wires
should be?

The two hots and neutral should be whatever is appropriate for a 40 A
circuit, probably 8 gauge copper. I don't know if the ground can be
smaller.

It can. So can the neutral, for that matter, since the heating elements
are
240V and don't use the neutral at all. The neutral wire is used for the
control circuits, ignitors, lights, fan (if there is one), etc. which are
all
120V, but the total load of all that won't be more than 5 amps or so.

The oven is on a 50 AMP circuit, so is 8 gauge enough. the next one
up would be 6 gauge?

Yes, the next size up is 6 gauge, but it's doubtful that you need that.
Check
the rating plate on the oven, and match the pigtail to that (not the the
breaker rating).

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , says...
WHOA, don't listen to this guy, that is crap!

50 amps usually call for 6 gauge wire, in a short run like is used for a
stove, you could probably get by with 8 gauge, but I would stick with 6
gauge...just go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy one.

The ground wire can usually be 1 gauge below the other wires. It is really
only there for safety, if you get a short it can follow the ground path
instead of a person.

The neutral is the return path, it has to be the same guage. If you have
two hots that are the same phase, then the neutral would have to be up a
gauge...but that won't happen. They are always opposite phase by
approximately 180 degrees and therefore partially cancel each other out.

If you look in your main breaker, the neutral and ground buses are tied to
eachother.

Think of the voltage/current like water. It flows in through your hot wire,
then into your appliances, then back through the neutral line and into the
ground.

But that's not the case with the 240V heating elements - the heavy
hitters in an electric range. They don't use the neutral for return.
As Doug correctly stated, the neutral is used only for the
electronics, lights, fan, etc. And since 120V outlets on ranges have
gone the way of cigarette lighters in cars, the maximum current that
the neutral will see is predictable. Indeed, Thermador specifies 10
for the hots, 12 for neutral and 10 for ground for their dual fuel
ranges (although I'm not sure why ground needs to be 10, in this
case).

In article , "Nathan" wrote:
WHOA, don't listen to this guy, that is crap!

The only "crap" here is your post -- you don't understand how 240V circuits
work.

50 amps usually call for 6 gauge wire, in a short run like is used for a
stove, you could probably get by with 8 gauge, but I would stick with 6
gauge...just go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy one.

According to the National Electrical Code, 8 gauge wire with 75 deg or 90 deg
insulation is rated at 50 and 55 amps, respectively. [2005 NEC, Table 310-16]

Furthermore, just because the *circuit* is 50A, that does not mean he needs a
50A pigtail -- if the oven only draws 38A, say, at full load, a 40A-rated
pigtail will be just fine.

The ground wire can usually be 1 gauge below the other wires.

False.

Per the National Electrical Code, for circuits rated 30A and less, the
grounding conductor must be the _same_size_ as the circuit conductors.
Circuits of 40 to 60 amps may use 10 gauge copper grounding conductors. Above
60A, the grounding conductor may be as much as *four* gauge sizes smaller than
the circuit conductors. [2005 NEC, Table 120.122]

It is really
only there for safety, if you get a short it can follow the ground path
instead of a person.

True, but not relevant to conductor sizing.

The neutral is the return path, it has to be the same guage.

True for 120V loads, but not true for 240V loads. Go back to school, Nathan.
You don't understand 240V wiring.

If you have
two hots that are the same phase, then the neutral would have to be up a
gauge...but that won't happen. They are always opposite phase by
approximately 180 degrees and therefore partially cancel each other out.

No, they *completely* cancel each other out. Go back to school, Nathan. You
don't understand 240V wiring.

In a combined 240V/120V load such as an electric stove, the only current
flowing in the neutral wire is the unbalanced current between the two hot
legs; that is, the current drawn by the 120V loads. The 240V loads don't even
need the neutral at all.

If you look in your main breaker, the neutral and ground buses are tied to
each other.

And that's relevant here exactly how?

Think of the voltage/current like water. It flows in through your hot wire,
then into your appliances, then back through the neutral line and into the
ground.

True for 120V loads. *Not* true for 240V loads.

You really need to read up on this a bit, Nathan. Trying to correct other
people's "mistakes" works a lot better when you understand the subject
yourself -- and you clearly do not.


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article . com, "CJ"
wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:50 pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
"CJ" writes:
I bought a four wire electric oven pigtail (two hots, a neutral and a
ground)
and was wondering what the gauge rating for each of the four wires
should be?

The two hots and neutral should be whatever is appropriate for a 40 A
circuit, probably 8 gauge copper. I don't know if the ground can be
smaller.

It can. So can the neutral, for that matter, since the heating elements
are
240V and don't use the neutral at all. The neutral wire is used for the
control circuits, ignitors, lights, fan (if there is one), etc. which are
all
120V, but the total load of all that won't be more than 5 amps or so.

The oven is on a 50 AMP circuit, so is 8 gauge enough. the next one
up would be 6 gauge?

Yes, the next size up is 6 gauge, but it's doubtful that you need that.
Check
the rating plate on the oven, and match the pigtail to that (not the the
breaker rating).

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , Mike Hartigan wrote:

But that's not the case with the 240V heating elements - the heavy
hitters in an electric range. They don't use the neutral for return.
As Doug correctly stated, the neutral is used only for the
electronics, lights, fan, etc. And since 120V outlets on ranges have
gone the way of cigarette lighters in cars, the maximum current that
the neutral will see is predictable. Indeed, Thermador specifies 10
for the hots, 12 for neutral and 10 for ground for their dual fuel
ranges (although I'm not sure why ground needs to be 10, in this
case).

If it's a 30A circuit (as implied by the use of 10ga hots), the NEC does not
permit the ground to be any smaller than 10ga. [2005 NEC, Table 120.122]

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I stand corrected. Sorry Doug. I was thinking standard 120/240 V circuits.
I have never dealt with straight out 240V.

I was stating the gauge for longer runs, like a house to a garage...forgot
the topic is for something soo short.


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Nathan"
wrote:
WHOA, don't listen to this guy, that is crap!

The only "crap" here is your post -- you don't understand how 240V
circuits
work.

50 amps usually call for 6 gauge wire, in a short run like is used for a
stove, you could probably get by with 8 gauge, but I would stick with 6
gauge...just go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy one.

According to the National Electrical Code, 8 gauge wire with 75 deg or 90
deg
insulation is rated at 50 and 55 amps, respectively. [2005 NEC, Table
310-16]

Furthermore, just because the *circuit* is 50A, that does not mean he
needs a
50A pigtail -- if the oven only draws 38A, say, at full load, a 40A-rated
pigtail will be just fine.

The ground wire can usually be 1 gauge below the other wires.

False.

Per the National Electrical Code, for circuits rated 30A and less, the
grounding conductor must be the _same_size_ as the circuit conductors.
Circuits of 40 to 60 amps may use 10 gauge copper grounding conductors.
Above
60A, the grounding conductor may be as much as *four* gauge sizes smaller
than
the circuit conductors. [2005 NEC, Table 120.122]

It is really
only there for safety, if you get a short it can follow the ground path
instead of a person.

True, but not relevant to conductor sizing.

The neutral is the return path, it has to be the same guage.

True for 120V loads, but not true for 240V loads. Go back to school,
Nathan.
You don't understand 240V wiring.

If you have
two hots that are the same phase, then the neutral would have to be up a
gauge...but that won't happen. They are always opposite phase by
approximately 180 degrees and therefore partially cancel each other out.

No, they *completely* cancel each other out. Go back to school, Nathan.
You
don't understand 240V wiring.

In a combined 240V/120V load such as an electric stove, the only current
flowing in the neutral wire is the unbalanced current between the two hot
legs; that is, the current drawn by the 120V loads. The 240V loads don't
even
need the neutral at all.

If you look in your main breaker, the neutral and ground buses are tied to
each other.

And that's relevant here exactly how?

Think of the voltage/current like water. It flows in through your hot
wire,
then into your appliances, then back through the neutral line and into the
ground.

True for 120V loads. *Not* true for 240V loads.

You really need to read up on this a bit, Nathan. Trying to correct other
people's "mistakes" works a lot better when you understand the subject
yourself -- and you clearly do not.


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
y.net...
In article . com, "CJ"
wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:50 pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
"CJ" writes:
I bought a four wire electric oven pigtail (two hots, a neutral and a
ground)
and was wondering what the gauge rating for each of the four wires
should be?

The two hots and neutral should be whatever is appropriate for a 40 A
circuit, probably 8 gauge copper. I don't know if the ground can be
smaller.

It can. So can the neutral, for that matter, since the heating elements
are
240V and don't use the neutral at all. The neutral wire is used for the
control circuits, ignitors, lights, fan (if there is one), etc. which
are
all
120V, but the total load of all that won't be more than 5 amps or so.

The oven is on a 50 AMP circuit, so is 8 gauge enough. the next one
up would be 6 gauge?

Yes, the next size up is 6 gauge, but it's doubtful that you need that.
Check
the rating plate on the oven, and match the pigtail to that (not the the
breaker rating).

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Nathan" wrote:
I stand corrected. Sorry Doug. I was thinking standard 120/240 V circuits.
I have never dealt with straight out 240V.

Thank you.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"CJ" writes:

The oven is on a 50 AMP circuit, so is 8 gauge enough. the next one
up would be 6 gauge?

Are you sure it's really 50 amp? Around here (BC Canada), normal electric
range circuits have 40 A breakers and 40 A wiring, even though the socket
used is rated for 50 A.

What size is the breaker in the panel, and the wiring in the wall?

Dave