Quartz Space Heater
 

On 1 Feb 2007 07:24:19 -0800, wrote:

On Feb 1, 12:23 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote in message

.. .

So electricity units are the same as thermal units.

Electricity used creates heat... if you don't understand that... you need
more help than you realize.

Not to pick nits (or 'knits'), but electricity used does not *create*
heat.

And electricity isn't he same thing as electrons. Somebody could be
confused about that right now.

Electricity used *is converted to* heat. And the amount of
heat that results is EXACTLY 3.413 Btu per watt 'consumed'. The fun
part is that it is irrelevant of what else is being done by this
electricity - lighting the room, spinning a turntable, chilling your
beer, projecting an HDTV image on a big screen, etc. The amount of
heat that results is EXACTLY 3.413 Btu per watt 'consumed'. In a very
real sense, all of these are simply free byproducts of the electricity-
to-heat conversion. And (getting sorta back on topic), during the
heating season, the efficiency of these devices is irrelevant - there
is zero energy wasted (discounting, of course, leaky windows,
inadequate insulation, etc). Each and every Btu dissipated by these
devices reduces the demand on your primary heating plant by exactly
one Btu.

But wait -- it gets even better! (this blew my mind when I first
heard it expressed this way) Assuming an 80% efficient gas furnace,
each Btu dissipated by your electric appliances/toys reduces the
demand on your primary heating plant by 1.25 Btu (an 80% furnace
sends .25 Btu of this up the chimney). You actually consume *less*
total energy, albeit at a higher cost, when you leave the lights and
the TV on all night!

That changes when you know that electricity is such quantities has to
be made. Even though that's not inside your house, it's still part of
reality.

Most of the heat produced by the inefficiency of electricity
generation is wasted.

Try running a generator inside. You'll get more efficient heating for
awhile. :-)

(Tell THAT to your 'green' friends who just
spent a small fortune replacing all their incandescent lamps with
CFL!) Pretty wild, no?

Of course, during the cooling season, it's a very different picture.



I know it doesn't REALLY make sense, but sometimes it seems that they
ought to be able to make a unit that cools your house while generating
as much electricity as it would take to heat it in the winter.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 00:12:39 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

LOL. Are you actually serious or just trolling?


I lack the proper emotional state to be capable of trolling.

I just stated some facts. If you believe any to be in error, you could
always post alternatives.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:23:10 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Light is not heat. Get over it.


True. Light is electromagnetic radiation (which can exist in empty
space). Heat (and sound) is mechanical vibration (which can't exist
in
empty space, it needs something to vibrate).

I hope your sound system noise doesn't heat up your room too.


Mechanical vibration will cause heating.

Geeesh. Go back to school you energy dummies. Your eyeballs are all
burned from illumination being converted to heat in your brains.


Light (electromagnetic radiation) will create heat when it contacts
any substance. That's what happens when you go outside on a sunny
day.


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Solar Flare" wrote in message
...
Which question do you want answered?

The one I asked...

Which produces more heat?..C and E because they don't waste as
much
energy producing visible light.

You better think again...

Which answer is correct?...None. Only C and E are the same. The
rest
all waste varying amounts of energy producing visible light.

Nothing is being wasted. The energy is being transferred to the
room
no
matter which poroduct you wish to use.

A watt is a watt... there is no getting around that.



--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

In article ,
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:


If you want to argue... go Google and argue with the information they
provide to you.

I really don't care what the temperature of space is...



I am not arguing with you, I am only pointing out that your statements
are not "Based in Fact"...... and as such, once pointed out, you should
acknowledge that, and GO AWAY, untill you learn a bit more about the
subject at hand..... and not "Parret" BS you read on the Internet....


You If it is on the Internet, it MUST be True......... NOT....

Quartz Space Heater
 

Harry wrote





How many gallons are in a light year? :-)

In Sir Francis Drake's time, it was sometimes asked "how many galleons to
the mile".... :-)


--
Respectfully, Bob

Quartz Space Heater
 

wrote:

LOL. Are you actually serious or just trolling?


I lack the proper emotional state to be capable of trolling.

I just stated some facts. If you believe any to be in error, you could
always post alternatives.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:23:10 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Light is not heat. Get over it.


True. Light is electromagnetic radiation (which can exist in empty
space). Heat (and sound) is mechanical vibration (which can't exist
in
empty space, it needs something to vibrate).

all this talk about vibrations I'm picking up. lets write a song about it.
Oh yeah, the Beach Boys already did it:

I'm picking up good vibrations. She's giving me excitations.

I'm picking up good vibrations. Ooo, bop-bop, good vibrations.

She's giving me the excitations. Bop-bop, excitations.

Good, good, good, good vibrations.

I've seen a good vibrator get some girls really hot when I had to take a
break. Some girls are worse than guys. :-))))))))

Quartz Space Heater
 

"DIMwit" wrote




I'm picking up good vibrations. Ooo, bop-bop, good vibrations.

She's giving me the excitations. Bop-bop, excitations.

Good, good, good, good vibrations.

I've seen a good vibrator get some girls really hot when I had to take
a break. Some girls are worse than guys. :-))))))))

let me tell you about my girl...

She was gonna be my wife
And I was gonna be her man
But she let another guy come between us
And it ruined our plan....


--
Respectfully, Bob

Quartz Space Heater
 

Quartz Space Heater
 

Hi Mark;

Mark Lloyd wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote:

Also a unit of electricity is not a unit of heat
at anytime. Yes, there are equivalents which depend
on the conversion efficiency but 1 watt is not a
measurement of heat.

And not a measurement of light either.

Light can be measured in watts.

Duane

--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm[*]
Powered by \ \ \ //|
Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / |
Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / |
Red Rock Energy \ \ / / |
Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / |
1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts |
White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ |
USA 55110-3364 === \ |
(651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ |
(my email: address) \ |
http://www.redrok.com (Web site) ===

Quartz Space Heater
 

"Duane C. Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Mark;

Mark Lloyd wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote:

Also a unit of electricity is not a unit of heat
at anytime. Yes, there are equivalents which depend
on the conversion efficiency but 1 watt is not a
measurement of heat.

And not a measurement of light either.

Light can be measured in watts.


Normally you measure it in lumens.


Duane

--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm[*]
Powered by \ \ \ //|
Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / |
Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / |
Red Rock Energy \ \ / / |
Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / |
1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts |
White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ |
USA 55110-3364 === \ |
(651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ |
(my email: address) \ |
http://www.redrok.com (Web site) ===

Quartz Space Heater
 

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Duane C. Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Mark;

Mark Lloyd wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote:

Also a unit of electricity is not a unit of heat
at anytime. Yes, there are equivalents which depend
on the conversion efficiency but 1 watt is not a
measurement of heat.

And not a measurement of light either.

Light can be measured in watts.


Normally you measure it in lumens.


Lightning bugs / cubic metre.

--

Quartz Space Heater
 

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:33:07 -0600, "Duane C. Johnson"
wrote:

Hi Mark;

Mark Lloyd wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote:

Also a unit of electricity is not a unit of heat
at anytime. Yes, there are equivalents which depend
on the conversion efficiency but 1 watt is not a
measurement of heat.

And not a measurement of light either.

Light can be measured in watts.


Sorry for the mess up. What started this is that the wattage ratings
on a light bulb refer to electrical consumption, not light output.

Like I just said in another post, I don't mind admitting actual
mistakes.

Duane
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...

My God .50/kw how to those people afford live and how to manufacturers
sell
anything that competitive?
What are PV people? I wonder where the most expensive electricity is in
the
US and the cheapest?

I don't know what it's like today, but, as I recall, customers of
some of the municipal power companies in New York that were buying
hydro power from PASNY were paying something like $0.004/kwh (yes,
that's less than 1/2 cent) as recently as 1999. Needless to say,
these were all electric homes.

a quick google search returned with thsi

residental rates .04038\kwh +$6.25 delivery charge
Still look relatively cheap to me.
http://jamestownbpu.com/electric/rates.php

Quartz Space Heater
 

Exactly! There has been so much nonsense and twisted thinking in this
thread it is a joke.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 00:18:35 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

NO! Sometimes you take out a cold beer and let it warm up outside.


Buy a freezer so you can warm the beer inside.

Quartz Space Heater
 

Radiant heat is an electromagnetic waveform. Ever hear of Infrared?

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:34:55 -0800, "Jeffrey Lebowski"
wrote:


"Solar Flare" wrote in message
...
Do you seriously know that little about energy?

Do you think your sound equipment manufacturer would design all
your
energy to transform into heat instead of sound? Get an Onkyo amp.
Calss G amp. Very little heat and linear current based outputs.
This
is called efficiency. Doesn't heat my room not matter how many
hundred
watts of sound it puts out.


Sound energy just floats off to nowhere then, I guess...

Both sound and heat are mechanical (not electromagnetic) vibrations.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

Nick may be a bucket of volts but we get a charge out of him anyway!

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Solar Flare" wrote in message
...
There is an idiot in every corner these days.

I bought a bucket of volts, the other day, on eBay, real cheap.


Don't talk about Nick that way. Shame on you!


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

wrote:

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

1 Watt = 3.413 Btu (That's HEAT)

Plonk.

Nick

I guess you don't like FACTS!!!!

Apparently not -- he argued with me over how many liters are in
a
US
gallon.
It's easy enough to look up...

3.785 vs 3.784, in my 2006 book. Maybe it's grown since you
looked
it up.

1 US gallon = 3.7854118 liters

You guys might enjoy learning the difference between power and
energy :-)

Nick

I just looked in the dictionary under Energy... and the first
thing
it say
is Power.

Go Figure

Quartz Space Heater
 

Lux

"Jeffrey Lebowski" wrote in message
...

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Duane C. Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Mark;

Mark Lloyd wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote:

Also a unit of electricity is not a unit of heat
at anytime. Yes, there are equivalents which depend
on the conversion efficiency but 1 watt is not a
measurement of heat.

And not a measurement of light either.

Light can be measured in watts.


Normally you measure it in lumens.


Lightning bugs / cubic metre.

--

Quartz Space Heater
 

The best way is to, admit mistakes, openly, for other people!

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:33:07 -0600, "Duane C. Johnson"
wrote:

Hi Mark;

Mark Lloyd wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote:

Also a unit of electricity is not a unit of heat
at anytime. Yes, there are equivalents which depend
on the conversion efficiency but 1 watt is not a
measurement of heat.

And not a measurement of light either.

Light can be measured in watts.


Sorry for the mess up. What started this is that the wattage ratings
on a light bulb refer to electrical consumption, not light output.

Like I just said in another post, I don't mind admitting actual
mistakes.

Duane
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

Exactly and although heat may be the lowest form of energy and all
energy may end up converted to heat in the end, the heat may not be
where you want it.

So back to the heaters, the one that wastes the least energy is the
most efficient, by heat output. The light and sound may end up being
heat but it may also be outside your property.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 00:23:13 -0600, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:


"Solar Flare" wrote in message
...
So electricity units are the same as thermal units.


Electricity used creates heat... if you don't understand that... you
need
more help than you realize.


Heat is the normal byproduct of inefficiency in energy conversion.
An
electric heater is essentially a device which converts electricity
to
light with very low efficiency. The waste is what you want here.


I'll have to remember next time I measure my PV panel output in
BTUs

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

1 Watt = 3.413 Btu (That's HEAT)

Plonk.

Nick


I guess you don't like FACTS!!!!





--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

My PV panels convert some light into electricity and produce no heat
for those energy units.

Light is not heat and not necessarily converted to heat. What you feel
from the sun is infrared electromagnetic radiation (arguably a form of
light). You cannot feel the light from the sun.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 00:12:39 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

LOL. Are you actually serious or just trolling?


I lack the proper emotional state to be capable of trolling.

I just stated some facts. If you believe any to be in error, you
could
always post alternatives.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:23:10 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Light is not heat. Get over it.


True. Light is electromagnetic radiation (which can exist in empty
space). Heat (and sound) is mechanical vibration (which can't
exist
in
empty space, it needs something to vibrate).

I hope your sound system noise doesn't heat up your room too.


Mechanical vibration will cause heating.

Geeesh. Go back to school you energy dummies. Your eyeballs are
all
burned from illumination being converted to heat in your brains.


Light (electromagnetic radiation) will create heat when it
contacts
any substance. That's what happens when you go outside on a sunny
day.


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
T...

"Solar Flare" wrote in message
...
Which question do you want answered?

The one I asked...

Which produces more heat?..C and E because they don't waste as
much
energy producing visible light.

You better think again...

Which answer is correct?...None. Only C and E are the same. The
rest
all waste varying amounts of energy producing visible light.

Nothing is being wasted. The energy is being transferred to the
room
no
matter which poroduct you wish to use.

A watt is a watt... there is no getting around that.



--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

Solar Flare writes:

Radiant heat is an electromagnetic waveform.

"Radiant heat" is a non-scientific, superstitious concept. There is
radiation and there is heat. Two different things that can transmute.

Quartz Space Heater
 

Solar Flare writes:

What you feel
from the sun is infrared electromagnetic radiation (arguably a form of
light). You cannot feel the light from the sun.

Nonsense. What you feel from the sun is a broad spectrum from IR to
visible to UV that is converts to heat when absorbed by your tissues.
Visible light is just as sensible as infrared, as heating upon absorption.

Infrared and visible EM are alike in regards to heating. Infrared is not
"radiant heat", although it radiates and converts to heat upon absorption,
but it is no different from visible light in that regard.

"Radiant heat" is a non-scientific concept, although it at least
phenomenologically descriptive. The idea that infrared is somehow
different from visible light in regards to "radiant heat" is a pure
fallacy.

Quartz Space Heater
 

On Feb 1, 11:22 pm, "Solar Flare"
wrote:
Exactly and although heat may be the lowest form of energy and all
energy may end up converted to heat in the end, the heat may not be
where you want it.

That's true. Buy, typically, when talking about space heaters, "where
you want it" is usually in the room where you place the heater.
That's certainly the case in the context of this discussion.

So back to the heaters, the one that wastes the least energy is the
most efficient, by heat output. The light and sound may end up being
heat but it may also be outside your property.

Any and all energy 'consumed' by an electric space heater is
dissipated as heat in the room in which it is placed. They are 100%
efficient, by definition. That's why efficiency ratings are not
required on electric space heaters (didn't you ever wonder about
that?). One heater that is deemed 'better' than another is better
only in terms of bells, whistles, and/or durability (although
consumers frequently pay a hefty premium for slick marketing).

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

"Why don't we just ask Osama bin Laden? Uh,
Osama Obama!" -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

In article ,
"Duane C. Johnson" wrote:

Light can be measured in watts.

Duane

Actually light is measured in Lumens...... not watts......

Quartz Space Heater
 

"Solar Flare" wrote in message
.. .
Exactly! There has been so much nonsense and twisted thinking in this
thread it is a joke.


I agree with that!

And all I did was ask a simple question. :-)


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 00:18:35 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

NO! Sometimes you take out a cold beer and let it warm up outside.


Buy a freezer so you can warm the beer inside.

Quartz Space Heater
 

Hi You;

You wrote:

"Duane C. Johnson" wrote:

Light can be measured in watts.

Duane

Actually light is measured in Lumens......
not watts......

Actually Lumens are a complicated unit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)
It is based on what the eye can perceive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy
However, the Lumen is based on Watts.
See the links.

Duane

--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm[*]
Powered by \ \ \ //|
Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / |
Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / |
Red Rock Energy \ \ / / |
Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / |
1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts |
White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ |
USA 55110-3364 === \ |
(651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ |
(my email: address) \ |
http://www.redrok.com (Web site) ===

Quartz Space Heater
 

On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 00:15:56 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Radiant heat is an electromagnetic waveform. Ever hear of Infrared?


Infrared is electromagnetic radiation at frequencies just below the
visible spectrum (next to red). That is NOT heat. The fact that EM is
constantly being converted to and from heat in no way makes them the
same thing.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:34:55 -0800, "Jeffrey Lebowski"
wrote:


"Solar Flare" wrote in message
t...
Do you seriously know that little about energy?

Do you think your sound equipment manufacturer would design all
your
energy to transform into heat instead of sound? Get an Onkyo amp.
Calss G amp. Very little heat and linear current based outputs.
This
is called efficiency. Doesn't heat my room not matter how many
hundred
watts of sound it puts out.


Sound energy just floats off to nowhere then, I guess...

Both sound and heat are mechanical (not electromagnetic) vibrations.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 00:24:46 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

My PV panels convert some light into electricity and produce no heat
for those energy units.


I don't know much about PV panels, but I do know that 100% efficiency
doesn't exist. I do remember hearing that PV devices were at most
about 10% efficient. What is the waste product?

Light is not heat

Which explains why I wouldn't say that it is.

and not necessarily converted to heat.

Do you have any specific information on what happens to it, then?

What you feel
from the sun is infrared electromagnetic radiation (arguably a form of
light). You cannot feel the light from the sun.


Strange, and almost certainly false. Light (apparently "visible light"
here) and Infrared are both EM radiation, and very similar. Infrared
is just slightly lower in frequency (like ultraviolet is on the other
side of the visible spectrum).

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 00:12:39 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

LOL. Are you actually serious or just trolling?


I lack the proper emotional state to be capable of trolling.

I just stated some facts. If you believe any to be in error, you
could
always post alternatives.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:23:10 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Light is not heat. Get over it.


True. Light is electromagnetic radiation (which can exist in empty
space). Heat (and sound) is mechanical vibration (which can't
exist
in
empty space, it needs something to vibrate).

I hope your sound system noise doesn't heat up your room too.


Mechanical vibration will cause heating.

Geeesh. Go back to school you energy dummies. Your eyeballs are
all
burned from illumination being converted to heat in your brains.


Light (electromagnetic radiation) will create heat when it
contacts
any substance. That's what happens when you go outside on a sunny
day.


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
ET...

"Solar Flare" wrote in message
...
Which question do you want answered?

The one I asked...

Which produces more heat?..C and E because they don't waste as
much
energy producing visible light.

You better think again...

Which answer is correct?...None. Only C and E are the same. The
rest
all waste varying amounts of energy producing visible light.

Nothing is being wasted. The energy is being transferred to the
room
no
matter which poroduct you wish to use.

A watt is a watt... there is no getting around that.



--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

Solar Flare wrote:

My PV panels convert some light into electricity and produce no heat
for those energy units.

Light is not heat and not necessarily converted to heat. What you feel
from the sun is infrared electromagnetic radiation (arguably a form of
light). You cannot feel the light from the sun.

Ever seen one of these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 00:12:39 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:


LOL. Are you actually serious or just trolling?


I lack the proper emotional state to be capable of trolling.

I just stated some facts. If you believe any to be in error, you
could
always post alternatives.


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:23:10 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:


Light is not heat. Get over it.


True. Light is electromagnetic radiation (which can exist in empty
space). Heat (and sound) is mechanical vibration (which can't
exist
in
empty space, it needs something to vibrate).


I hope your sound system noise doesn't heat up your room too.


Mechanical vibration will cause heating.


Geeesh. Go back to school you energy dummies. Your eyeballs are
all
burned from illumination being converted to heat in your brains.


Light (electromagnetic radiation) will create heat when it
contacts
any substance. That's what happens when you go outside on a sunny
day.


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
ET...

"Solar Flare" wrote in message
...

Which question do you want answered?

The one I asked...


Which produces more heat?..C and E because they don't waste as
much
energy producing visible light.

You better think again...


Which answer is correct?...None. Only C and E are the same. The
rest
all waste varying amounts of energy producing visible light.

Nothing is being wasted. The energy is being transferred to the
room
no
matter which poroduct you wish to use.

A watt is a watt... there is no getting around that.



--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy





--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Quartz Space Heater
 

Richard J Kinch wrote:

Solar Flare writes:


What you feel
from the sun is infrared electromagnetic radiation (arguably a form of
light). You cannot feel the light from the sun.


Nonsense. What you feel from the sun is a broad spectrum from IR to
visible to UV that is converts to heat when absorbed by your tissues.
Visible light is just as sensible as infrared, as heating upon absorption.

Infrared and visible EM are alike in regards to heating. Infrared is not
"radiant heat", although it radiates and converts to heat upon absorption,
but it is no different from visible light in that regard.

"Radiant heat" is a non-scientific concept, although it at least
phenomenologically descriptive. The idea that infrared is somehow
different from visible light in regards to "radiant heat" is a pure
fallacy.

Bingo.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Quartz Space Heater
 

Quartz Space Heater
 

In alt.energy.renewable Jeffrey Lebowski wrote:
We're currently at $.052 /kwh up here.
http://www.cowlitzpud.org/pdf/3-2-06...hedule%201.pdf

Is that a seasonal rate? I don't see any time parameters associated
with it. PG&E changes rates so often that they are very clear about the
effective dates of the rate sheets ;-)

http://www.pge.com/rates/tariffs/ResElecCurrent.xls
$0.114-$0.369/kWh, depending on how much you use. Average is $0.164

Propane is $1.95 per gallon.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

Quartz Space Heater
 

Funny we can photograph infrared heat from people's bodies and other
warm objects even though it isn't heat.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 00:15:56 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Radiant heat is an electromagnetic waveform. Ever hear of Infrared?


Infrared is electromagnetic radiation at frequencies just below the
visible spectrum (next to red). That is NOT heat. The fact that EM
is
constantly being converted to and from heat in no way makes them the
same thing.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:34:55 -0800, "Jeffrey Lebowski"
wrote:


"Solar Flare" wrote in message
et...
Do you seriously know that little about energy?

Do you think your sound equipment manufacturer would design all
your
energy to transform into heat instead of sound? Get an Onkyo
amp.
Calss G amp. Very little heat and linear current based outputs.
This
is called efficiency. Doesn't heat my room not matter how many
hundred
watts of sound it puts out.


Sound energy just floats off to nowhere then, I guess...

Both sound and heat are mechanical (not electromagnetic)
vibrations.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

I own one.

"CJT" wrote in message
...
Solar Flare wrote:

My PV panels convert some light into electricity and produce no
heat for those energy units.

Light is not heat and not necessarily converted to heat. What you
feel from the sun is infrared electromagnetic radiation (arguably a
form of light). You cannot feel the light from the sun.

Ever seen one of these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 00:12:39 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:


LOL. Are you actually serious or just trolling?


I lack the proper emotional state to be capable of trolling.

I just stated some facts. If you believe any to be in error, you
could
always post alternatives.


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
m...

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:23:10 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:


Light is not heat. Get over it.


True. Light is electromagnetic radiation (which can exist in
empty
space). Heat (and sound) is mechanical vibration (which can't
exist
in
empty space, it needs something to vibrate).


I hope your sound system noise doesn't heat up your room too.


Mechanical vibration will cause heating.


Geeesh. Go back to school you energy dummies. Your eyeballs are
all
burned from illumination being converted to heat in your brains.


Light (electromagnetic radiation) will create heat when it
contacts
any substance. That's what happens when you go outside on a sunny
day.


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
news:42b32$45bda0e6$943f6c44$31975@STARBAND. NET...

"Solar Flare" wrote in
message
...

Which question do you want answered?

The one I asked...


Which produces more heat?..C and E because they don't waste as
much
energy producing visible light.

You better think again...


Which answer is correct?...None. Only C and E are the same.
The
rest
all waste varying amounts of energy producing visible light.

Nothing is being wasted. The energy is being transferred to the
room
no
matter which poroduct you wish to use.

A watt is a watt... there is no getting around that.



--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy





--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Quartz Space Heater
 

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:55:06 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

"CJT" wrote in message
...
Ever seen one of these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer

I own one.

So you know why the vanes turn then?

What happens when you put it in the freezer?

Joe Fischer

Quartz Space Heater
 

Solar Flare wrote:

Funny we can photograph infrared heat from people's bodies and other
warm objects even though it isn't heat.

IDIOT

Quartz Space Heater
 

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:52:55 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Funny we can photograph infrared heat

There is (still) no such thing as "infrared heat". Infrared radiation
is produced by warm objects. Heating these objects further produces
more visible light (as seen in flames and heating elements, and in
sparks too).

from people's bodies and other
warm objects even though it isn't heat.


Photographic film, as well as CCD arrays in digital cameras, is
sensitive to electromagnetic radiation in the infrared range.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 00:15:56 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Radiant heat is an electromagnetic waveform. Ever hear of Infrared?


Infrared is electromagnetic radiation at frequencies just below the
visible spectrum (next to red). That is NOT heat. The fact that EM
is
constantly being converted to and from heat in no way makes them the
same thing.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:34:55 -0800, "Jeffrey Lebowski"
wrote:


"Solar Flare" wrote in message
news:TOCdnZqPDtTd7lzYnZ2dnUVZ_qmpnZ2d@golden. net...
Do you seriously know that little about energy?

Do you think your sound equipment manufacturer would design all
your
energy to transform into heat instead of sound? Get an Onkyo
amp.
Calss G amp. Very little heat and linear current based outputs.
This
is called efficiency. Doesn't heat my room not matter how many
hundred
watts of sound it puts out.


Sound energy just floats off to nowhere then, I guess...

Both sound and heat are mechanical (not electromagnetic)
vibrations.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

There is no such thing as a Mark even though you keep beaking off.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:52:55 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Funny we can photograph infrared heat

There is (still) no such thing as "infrared heat". Infrared
radiation
is produced by warm objects. Heating these objects further produces
more visible light (as seen in flames and heating elements, and in
sparks too).

from people's bodies and other
warm objects even though it isn't heat.


Photographic film, as well as CCD arrays in digital cameras, is
sensitive to electromagnetic radiation in the infrared range.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 00:15:56 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

Radiant heat is an electromagnetic waveform. Ever hear of
Infrared?


Infrared is electromagnetic radiation at frequencies just below
the
visible spectrum (next to red). That is NOT heat. The fact that EM
is
constantly being converted to and from heat in no way makes them
the
same thing.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:34:55 -0800, "Jeffrey Lebowski"
wrote:


"Solar Flare" wrote in message
news:TOCdnZqPDtTd7lzYnZ2dnUVZ_qmpnZ2d@golden .net...
Do you seriously know that little about energy?

Do you think your sound equipment manufacturer would design
all
your
energy to transform into heat instead of sound? Get an Onkyo
amp.
Calss G amp. Very little heat and linear current based
outputs.
This
is called efficiency. Doesn't heat my room not matter how many
hundred
watts of sound it puts out.


Sound energy just floats off to nowhere then, I guess...

Both sound and heat are mechanical (not electromagnetic)
vibrations.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Quartz Space Heater
 

Yeah, it turns due to the reflected photons (in theory since photons
are on therom anyway). The spindle turns towards the black faces and
away from the white ones in light.

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:55:06 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

"CJT" wrote in message
...
Ever seen one of these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer

I own one.

So you know why the vanes turn then?

What happens when you put it in the freezer?

Joe Fischer

Quartz Space Heater
 

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:17 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

So you know why the vanes turn then?

What happens when you put it in the freezer?

Yeah, it turns due to the reflected photons (in theory since photons
are on therom anyway).

Sorry, that is incorrect, while it is possible to make
a radiometer that turns from reflected photons like a
solar sail is supposed to accelerate due to radiation
pressure of reflected photons, the Crook's radiometer
works because the black side gets warm and the
gas press in the thing is low enough the mean free
path is long enough to allow the molecules to bounce
off the black side with more energy than they had
before bouncing.

The spindle turns towards the black faces and
away from the white ones in light.

Wrong, if you would have tried it in the freezer,
it will turn towards the black faces and away from
the white ones in the dark for a little while until the
vanes cool off.

But in light, it turns toward the white faces
due to the black side heating the gas molecules.

All you have to do is LOOK, and PAY
ATTENTION, instead of just assuming, and
that gives you first hand knowledge that will
help more than reading books.

Joe Fischer

Quartz Space Heater
 

Obviously you are just a troll (we already knew that) or just plain
stupid enough to lie about it.

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:17 -0500, "Solar Flare"
wrote:

So you know why the vanes turn then?

What happens when you put it in the freezer?

Yeah, it turns due to the reflected photons (in theory since photons
are on therom anyway).

Sorry, that is incorrect, while it is possible to make
a radiometer that turns from reflected photons like a
solar sail is supposed to accelerate due to radiation
pressure of reflected photons, the Crook's radiometer
works because the black side gets warm and the
gas press in the thing is low enough the mean free
path is long enough to allow the molecules to bounce
off the black side with more energy than they had
before bouncing.

The spindle turns towards the black faces and
away from the white ones in light.

Wrong, if you would have tried it in the freezer,
it will turn towards the black faces and away from
the white ones in the dark for a little while until the
vanes cool off.

But in light, it turns toward the white faces
due to the black side heating the gas molecules.

All you have to do is LOOK, and PAY
ATTENTION, instead of just assuming, and
that gives you first hand knowledge that will
help more than reading books.

Joe Fischer