It certainly stops at my house as I'm freezing my ass off for weeks now.
Whenever I turn the thermostat up a notch I know it'll cost me later by
digging deeper into my wallet.

I need some help as my house is so energy inefficient. The house is late
1970s and is located in the Bay Area. Except for the HW heater it has not
been updated, energy wise. It has concrete tile roof without plywood or OSB
sheeting under it (so attic fan is useless) such that it absorbs heat in the
Summer days and release it back into the house during nights - very hot
regarding the second floor bedrooms. Its a two story house with a split
HVAC, about 4" blown in insulation in the attic and single pane windows and
sliding patio doors. I don't have the cash reserve to do everything at once
so where should I start first to get the most efficient use of my money? I'm
looking at long term so I want to do it right. Do I start with replacing the
windows first, than insulation and lastly the HVAC and the front entry
double doors, or is it in a difference sequence? Maybe perhaps a new roof
too? I would like to incorporate some solar energy and/or some kind of heat
recovery system sometime in the future after the basic energy upgrades are
finished. I like to go for it if I could visualize payback within 20 years.

In article , "# Fred #" wrote:
It certainly stops at my house as I'm freezing my ass off for weeks now.
Whenever I turn the thermostat up a notch I know it'll cost me later by
digging deeper into my wallet.

I need some help as my house is so energy inefficient. The house is late
1970s and is located in the Bay Area. Except for the HW heater it has not
been updated, energy wise. It has concrete tile roof without plywood or OSB
sheeting under it (so attic fan is useless) such that it absorbs heat in the
Summer days and release it back into the house during nights - very hot
regarding the second floor bedrooms. Its a two story house with a split
HVAC, about 4" blown in insulation in the attic and single pane windows and
sliding patio doors. I don't have the cash reserve to do everything at once
so where should I start first to get the most efficient use of my money? I'm
looking at long term so I want to do it right. Do I start with replacing the
windows first, than insulation and lastly the HVAC and the front entry
double doors, or is it in a difference sequence? Maybe perhaps a new roof
too? I would like to incorporate some solar energy and/or some kind of heat
recovery system sometime in the future after the basic energy upgrades are
finished. I like to go for it if I could visualize payback within 20 years.

In general:

1. Fix any simple/obvious problems first such as huge gaps
under/around doors and windows, HVAC issues like clogged
filters, duct work that has come apart etc. etc.

2. Next, insulation is likely to produce the best bang for
the buck, by a significant margin.

3. Energy efficient windows can help a lot but they're
also costly compared to items 1 and 2.

In other words, I'd do basic maintenance and insulation
before replacing the windows (unless they're in really
bad shape and need immediate attention).

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"# Fred #" writes:

It certainly stops at my house as I'm freezing my ass off for weeks now.
Whenever I turn the thermostat up a notch I know it'll cost me later by
digging deeper into my wallet.

I need some help as my house is so energy inefficient. The house is late
1970s and is located in the Bay Area. Except for the HW heater it has not
been updated, energy wise. It has concrete tile roof without plywood or OSB
sheeting under it (so attic fan is useless) such that it absorbs heat in the
Summer days and release it back into the house during nights - very hot
regarding the second floor bedrooms. Its a two story house with a split
HVAC, about 4" blown in insulation in the attic and single pane windows and
sliding patio doors. I don't have the cash reserve to do everything at once
so where should I start first to get the most efficient use of my money? I'm
looking at long term so I want to do it right. Do I start with replacing the
windows first, than insulation and lastly the HVAC and the front entry
double doors, or is it in a difference sequence? Maybe perhaps a new roof
too? I would like to incorporate some solar energy and/or some kind of heat
recovery system sometime in the future after the basic energy upgrades are
finished. I like to go for it if I could visualize payback within
20 years.

Windows are generally regarded to have among the longest payback
times, so they may not be the place to start.

More attic insulation is a huge bang for the buck though. I'd start
there.

Windows, however do provide a great deal of comfort in stopping drafts
and making things feel a lot better. If you don't have the reserve
now, consider plastic window film. The 3m window kits are actually
wonderful, and once treated with the blow dryer, they almost
disappear. For windows that spend most of the winter behind curtains
anyway, all the better. The 3m tape is where it's at--if you buy
bargain windows kits, you may regret it.

But if you can afford to do windows, do. They should payback in 20
years unless you go nuts with the top of the line windows.

Heating ... what do you have now?

--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

Windows are generally regarded to have among the longest payback
times, so they may not be the place to start.

More attic insulation is a huge bang for the buck though. I'd start
there.

Windows, however do provide a great deal of comfort in stopping drafts
and making things feel a lot better. If you don't have the reserve
now, consider plastic window film. The 3m window kits are actually
wonderful, and once treated with the blow dryer, they almost
disappear. For windows that spend most of the winter behind curtains
anyway, all the better. The 3m tape is where it's at--if you buy
bargain windows kits, you may regret it.

But if you can afford to do windows, do. They should payback in 20
years unless you go nuts with the top of the line windows.

Heating ... what do you have now?


HVAC is original late 1970 vintage, amazingly both air and heat still works
though not very efficiently. Heating is central natural gas fired units, one
for downstairs and one for upstairs. House about 3,000sf and I'm the only
one in it most of the time while wife out shopping so no need to fired up
the unit(s) just for one person.

--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

Al's at a global warming conference in Denver
Frank

"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com...
Al's at a global warming conference in Denver
Frank


You could thank him for me for the invention of the internet when you see
him in Denver!

I realize the truth is seldom as interesting as a lie, but for those
who care....

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

Cheers,
Paul

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:56:02 -0800, "# Fred #"
wrote:

You could thank him for me for the invention of the internet when you see
him in Denver!

"# Fred #" wrote in message
. ..

"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com...
Al's at a global warming conference in Denver
Frank


You could thank him for me for the invention of the internet when you see
him in Denver!

Al Gore NEVER claimed to have invented the internet.
http://www.perkel.com/politics/gore/internet.htm

And anyone who ridicules "global warming" because it happens
to be cool where they are really need to get a clue.
http://www.undoit.org/what_is_gb_myth.cfm

Bob

"Bob F" wrote in message
. ..

"# Fred #" wrote in message
. ..

"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com...
Al's at a global warming conference in Denver
Frank


You could thank him for me for the invention of the internet when you see
him in Denver!

Al Gore NEVER claimed to have invented the internet.
http://www.perkel.com/politics/gore/internet.htm


Easy Bob, its was a joke not a political statement. Besides, Al Gore is too
smart to make that claim even though he open himself to that interpretation.
Whenever you have divas, actors and politicians taking scientific issues and
passing themselves as experts, I'm a little concern vis-a-vis An
Inconvenient Truth. At any rate, I like Al Gore and he could have been a
good president if it wasn't for his sidekick messing around in the
Whitehouse.

And anyone who ridicules "global warming" because it happens
to be cool where they are really need to get a clue.
http://www.undoit.org/what_is_gb_myth.cfm

Bob


No ridicule intended, again it was a light joke. I don't know enough about
this issue to have conviction one way or another. From surfing the internet
last night, all that I know is that the global warming issue, or discussion
anyway, is where you have science mixed in with politics and the above
article you referenced to is from Environment Defense, a left wing group
with their own agenda, no? Form what little I know we had a few cycles of
global warming long before the SUVs and industrialization so this is one
more cycle, no? According to Wikipedia, we have scientific experts in this
field taken issue with this. All that I know is I'm freezing my ass off
again this morning and if its not global warming than why call it global?
Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to save energy, doing my part and wouldn't
touch a SUV with a ten foot pole and trying to go green in the future if my
wallet permits.

"# Fred #" wrote in message
And anyone who ridicules "global warming" because it happens
to be cool where they are really need to get a clue.
http://www.undoit.org/what_is_gb_myth.cfm

Bob


No ridicule intended, again it was a light joke. I don't know enough about
this issue to have conviction one way or another. From surfing the
internet
last night, all that I know is that the global warming issue, or
discussion
anyway, is where you have science mixed in with politics and the above
article you referenced to is from Environment Defense, a left wing group
with their own agenda, no? Form what little I know we had a few cycles of
global warming long before the SUVs and industrialization so this is one
more cycle, no? According to Wikipedia, we have scientific experts in this
field taken issue with this. All that I know is I'm freezing my ass off
again this morning and if its not global warming than why call it global?
Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to save energy, doing my part and wouldn't
touch a SUV with a ten foot pole and trying to go green in the future if
my
wallet permits.

No offense was intended. I get tired of people that deny the problems
associated with global warming, and the scientific concensis about
it. It is too big of a problem to ignor.

A study was done recently of "peer reviewed" scientific literature
on the subject of global warming recently. Of 1000 articles selected
randomly from 10 years of published articles on the subject, not one
refuted global warming or refuted human influence in it. The scientific
concensis is clear. Even if it wasn't, can we afford to take the chance?

There is a tendancy in the current administration to ignor real science
whenever it is politically expedient. The number of scientific studies
and reports which have been modified before release by political
"hacks" is scary. Science should not be held captive to politics.

Bob

# Fred # wrote:
It certainly stops at my house as I'm freezing my ass off for weeks
now. Whenever I turn the thermostat up a notch I know it'll cost me
later by digging deeper into my wallet.

I need some help as my house is so energy inefficient. The house is
late 1970s and is located in the Bay Area. Except for the HW heater
it has not been updated, energy wise. It has concrete tile roof
without plywood or OSB sheeting under it (so attic fan is useless)
such that it absorbs heat in the Summer days and release it back into
the house during nights - very hot regarding the second floor
bedrooms. Its a two story house with a split HVAC, about 4" blown in
insulation in the attic and single pane windows and sliding patio
doors. I don't have the cash reserve to do everything at once so
where should I start first to get the most efficient use of my money?
I'm looking at long term so I want to do it right. Do I start with
replacing the windows first, than insulation and lastly the HVAC and
the front entry double doors, or is it in a difference sequence?
Maybe perhaps a new roof too? I would like to incorporate some solar
energy and/or some kind of heat recovery system sometime in the
future after the basic energy upgrades are finished. I like to go
for it if I could visualize payback within 20 years.

I would start with more insulation (8 or more inches) and since that is
a 30 + year old AC and Heat, you will gain a lot by replacing them with
modern energy efficient units. I doubt if it will be much longer before you
have to replace them anyway.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

The DOE recomends R-38 in attics. This is 12", unsettled of
cellulose insulation. This would make a great impact on your heating
cost. Are our walls insulated? Cellulose blown into the wall cavities
can also make a large difference.
You may want to have a energy specialists come out to your house and
do a energy audit. This could include a blower door diagnostic, which
will show air leakage into your home. They may also use an infrared
camera to determined if there is insulation in the walls.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:05:30 -0800, "# Fred #"
wrote:

It certainly stops at my house as I'm freezing my ass off for weeks now.
Whenever I turn the thermostat up a notch I know it'll cost me later by
digging deeper into my wallet.

You know it's cold every winter. And because of the higher price of
fuel, even if it isn't as cold as it was in prior years, it still
costs more.

You can't tell by the weather in your one town in one winter whether
there is global warming or not.

But it appears that everyone who studies the data agrees that there
is, except for those who have been hired by those in whose interest it
is to say otherwise.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:05:30 -0800, # Fred # wrote:


It certainly stops at my house as I'm freezing my ass off for weeks now.
Whenever I turn the thermostat up a notch I know it'll cost me later by
digging deeper into my wallet.

I've been freezing my ass off too. It's been getting down into the 30's
here at night. ****ing cold. Of course it only feels cold to somebody
who has spent a few of the 125 degree summers here in greater phoenix.

Getting down into the 30's? Pffftttttt! How would you guys like to
deal with temperatures another 50 or 60 degrees below that?

Thermal wimps, all of ya! ;-)

Cheers,
Paul

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:39:35 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

I've been freezing my ass off too. It's been getting down into the 30's
here at night. ****ing cold. Of course it only feels cold to somebody
who has spent a few of the 125 degree summers here in greater phoenix.