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#1
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
I want to build an 8x8 room, inside a large room with hardwood floors.
Building the room is OK with landlord. I want to use metal studs, and I want the room to be a freestanding cube with a floor and a ceiling. I want to use the ceiling on top of the cube as storage space and a guest sleeping area, so it needs to support some load. I've done a bit of construction work before, but one thing I haven't done much of is framing, and I've never used metal studs. I'm wondering if I can use metal studs for the base and top sill - will they provide enough support? Is there any reason NOT to use metal studs, and use wood instead? My other concern si not attaching the room to the existing structure. I would like it to be a freestanding cube. Does anyone know if there is any problem with this idea? One last question - what is the best way to bolt it to the floor? |
#2
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
There may be a number of code/safety issues to consider here.
If you live in an earthquake prone area, I'd be a little nervous about a freestanding room, especially one that is going to be top-heavy due to storage and/or guests. The top is going to have to meet requirements for a "regular" floor, since it will have to support the dead load of the storage as well as the live load of 1 or 2 people climbing into bed. So you are going to need joists, a subfloor and possibly a finish floor. Go to http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp to determine the joist size based on what you are planning to put on top of the cube. By the way, even if the top of the cube is the full 8 x 8, that's pretty cramped for sleeping area. A single bed is going to take up over a third of that space, which I guess is OK in an emergency. I'm also a little confused by 2 seemingly contradicting lines in your post. First you say: My...concern is not attaching the room to the existing structure. Then you ask: what is the best way to bolt it to the floor? So, let's assume it is going to be attached, at least at the floor. Let's also assume you don't want your guests rolling out of bed and falling to the floor - which means a railing of some type. Consider extending the corner posts up to the existing ceiling and attaching them to the joists of the existing structure. This will give you both a firm attachment to the existing structure and a firm place to attach your railings to. Seeing that the cube is going to be top heavy, you are going to want to have some means to prevent racking. Attaching the cube to the existing ceiling will prevent that. If not, you might want to consider bracing on the side walls. While I've never used metal studs, I do know that they do not have any real strength until the drywall is attached. I can't imagine how they could be used as the top plate to support the joists you are going to need to build the floor on top of the cube. Finally, If you are planning to brace the side walls, you'll need to use plywood because I wouldn't rely on drywall to provide enough bracing strength for a top heavy cube. Check out these pictures to see the effect of wind on a freestanding structure that wasn't braced properly. http://www.unified-eng.com/ch/bracing.html I know you won't be dealing with wind, but I can imagine that an uneven load on the top of a free standing cube might eventually have the same effect. wrote: I want to build an 8x8 room, inside a large room with hardwood floors. Building the room is OK with landlord. I want to use metal studs, and I want the room to be a freestanding cube with a floor and a ceiling. I want to use the ceiling on top of the cube as storage space and a guest sleeping area, so it needs to support some load. I've done a bit of construction work before, but one thing I haven't done much of is framing, and I've never used metal studs. I'm wondering if I can use metal studs for the base and top sill - will they provide enough support? Is there any reason NOT to use metal studs, and use wood instead? My other concern si not attaching the room to the existing structure. I would like it to be a freestanding cube. Does anyone know if there is any problem with this idea? One last question - what is the best way to bolt it to the floor? |
#3
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
DerbyDad03 wrote: There may be a number of code/safety issues to consider here. If you live in an earthquake prone area, I'd be a little nervous about a freestanding room, especially one that is going to be top-heavy due to storage and/or guests. The top is going to have to meet requirements for a "regular" floor, since it will have to support the dead load of the storage as well as the live load of 1 or 2 people climbing into bed. So you are going to need joists, a subfloor and possibly a finish floor. Go to http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp to determine the joist size based on what you are planning to put on top of the cube. By the way, even if the top of the cube is the full 8 x 8, that's pretty cramped for sleeping area. A single bed is going to take up over a third of that space, which I guess is OK in an emergency. I'm also a little confused by 2 seemingly contradicting lines in your post. First you say: My...concern is not attaching the room to the existing structure. Then you ask: what is the best way to bolt it to the floor? So, let's assume it is going to be attached, at least at the floor. Let's also assume you don't want your guests rolling out of bed and falling to the floor - which means a railing of some type. Consider extending the corner posts up to the existing ceiling and attaching them to the joists of the existing structure. This will give you both a firm attachment to the existing structure and a firm place to attach your railings to. Seeing that the cube is going to be top heavy, you are going to want to have some means to prevent racking. Attaching the cube to the existing ceiling will prevent that. If not, you might want to consider bracing on the side walls. While I've never used metal studs, I do know that they do not have any real strength until the drywall is attached. I can't imagine how they could be used as the top plate to support the joists you are going to need to build the floor on top of the cube. Finally, If you are planning to brace the side walls, you'll need to use plywood because I wouldn't rely on drywall to provide enough bracing strength for a top heavy cube. Check out these pictures to see the effect of wind on a freestanding structure that wasn't braced properly. http://www.unified-eng.com/ch/bracing.html I know you won't be dealing with wind, but I can imagine that an uneven load on the top of a free standing cube might eventually have the same effect. jeez, that sounds like a lot of engineering for a little box. i'd get some wood 2x4's, maybe some 2x6's for the "roof", some 1/2" osb for the walls and roof, and you should be good to go. youre not building the taj mahal. siesmic loads? give me a break. what are you afraid of--that little box falling on you? i'd think it'd be safer if the building started collapsing to be in a little shelter. you could screw it to the floor with some 3" deck screws. for light storage it'd be fine. (don't be storing your anvil collection up there.) |
#4
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
Form and function, my dear marson, form and function.
While the OP may not be building the taj mahal, it does sound like he is building a room within a living space - note the mention of a sleeping area for guests. Therefore he might want the room to look nice, both inside and out. OSB might not fit the bill here from a "form" perspective, but yes, it would be "functional". You mentioned 2x6's for the roof and that might be fine for this application, although the OP did not mention his requirements other than "it needs to support some load." Without knowing what his storage needs are (or the size of his guests) I wasn't going to suggest a joist size. That's up to him to determine based on his requirements. Perhaps he does indeed have an anvil collection that he needs to store - or some pretty beefy guests. As for the extension of the corner posts up the existing joists - again, if this going to be inside a living area and needs to look nice, the corner posts would provide both form and function. A secure railing would not only be functional from a safety perspective, but would look nice (read: form). Marson Wrote: jeez, that sounds like a lot of engineering for a little box. i'd get some wood 2x4's, maybe some 2x6's for the "roof", some 1/2" osb for the walls and roof, and you should be good to go. youre not building the taj mahal. siesmic loads? give me a break. what are you afraid of--that little box falling on you? i'd think it'd be safer if the building started collapsing to be in a little shelter. you could screw it to the floor with some 3" deck screws. for light storage it'd be fine. (don't be storing your anvil collection up there.) DerbyDad03 wrote: There may be a number of code/safety issues to consider here. If you live in an earthquake prone area, I'd be a little nervous about a freestanding room, especially one that is going to be top-heavy due to storage and/or guests. The top is going to have to meet requirements for a "regular" floor, since it will have to support the dead load of the storage as well as the live load of 1 or 2 people climbing into bed. So you are going to need joists, a subfloor and possibly a finish floor. Go to http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp to determine the joist size based on what you are planning to put on top of the cube. By the way, even if the top of the cube is the full 8 x 8, that's pretty cramped for sleeping area. A single bed is going to take up over a third of that space, which I guess is OK in an emergency. I'm also a little confused by 2 seemingly contradicting lines in your post. First you say: My...concern is not attaching the room to the existing structure. Then you ask: what is the best way to bolt it to the floor? So, let's assume it is going to be attached, at least at the floor. Let's also assume you don't want your guests rolling out of bed and falling to the floor - which means a railing of some type. Consider extending the corner posts up to the existing ceiling and attaching them to the joists of the existing structure. This will give you both a firm attachment to the existing structure and a firm place to attach your railings to. Seeing that the cube is going to be top heavy, you are going to want to have some means to prevent racking. Attaching the cube to the existing ceiling will prevent that. If not, you might want to consider bracing on the side walls. While I've never used metal studs, I do know that they do not have any real strength until the drywall is attached. I can't imagine how they could be used as the top plate to support the joists you are going to need to build the floor on top of the cube. Finally, If you are planning to brace the side walls, you'll need to use plywood because I wouldn't rely on drywall to provide enough bracing strength for a top heavy cube. Check out these pictures to see the effect of wind on a freestanding structure that wasn't braced properly. http://www.unified-eng.com/ch/bracing.html I know you won't be dealing with wind, but I can imagine that an uneven load on the top of a free standing cube might eventually have the same effect. jeez, that sounds like a lot of engineering for a little box. i'd get some wood 2x4's, maybe some 2x6's for the "roof", some 1/2" osb for the walls and roof, and you should be good to go. youre not building the taj mahal. siesmic loads? give me a break. what are you afraid of--that little box falling on you? i'd think it'd be safer if the building started collapsing to be in a little shelter. you could screw it to the floor with some 3" deck screws. for light storage it'd be fine. (don't be storing your anvil collection up there.) |
#5
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
first of all, he could cover the osb and studs with whatever he
wants--drywall, panelling, whatever. but start with a plywood box for simplicity and ease of construction. i will also go out on a limb and say that 2x6's will be just fine. it's not going to collapse. joists could even sag a bit, but it'll be fine. mainly what i was reacting to was the implication that you had to have this thing engineered and built to code. maybe he is pulling a permit, but i doubt it. building codes are great things, but when we reach the day when a guy can't even build a doghouse without consulting a team of architects and engineers, it's a sad day. |
#6
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
Personally, I would not think in the terms of a "room built out of
construction materials", instead I would consider an "oversize cabinet". It could be built out of some framing materials with dados in the sides to fit in a sheet of plywood or whatever is preferred. This method could be used for all the walls. The ceiling would need a little more engineering to make it strong enough for storage. If one were to build a very large cabinet, there would be no need to pull a permit, it would keep the weight down to reduce structural consideration on the existing building floor and would be simpler to build and possibly knock down when the time comes. Metal studs will not be strong enough to hold weight, they are only strong enough to hold up some drywall, unless you go all the way to structural metal studding, which will cost more, weigh more and be harder to use. "DerbyDad03" wrote in message oups.com... Form and function, my dear marson, form and function. While the OP may not be building the taj mahal, it does sound like he is building a room within a living space - note the mention of a sleeping area for guests. Therefore he might want the room to look nice, both inside and out. OSB might not fit the bill here from a "form" perspective, but yes, it would be "functional". You mentioned 2x6's for the roof and that might be fine for this application, although the OP did not mention his requirements other than "it needs to support some load." Without knowing what his storage needs are (or the size of his guests) I wasn't going to suggest a joist size. That's up to him to determine based on his requirements. Perhaps he does indeed have an anvil collection that he needs to store - or some pretty beefy guests. As for the extension of the corner posts up the existing joists - again, if this going to be inside a living area and needs to look nice, the corner posts would provide both form and function. A secure railing would not only be functional from a safety perspective, but would look nice (read: form). Marson Wrote: jeez, that sounds like a lot of engineering for a little box. i'd get some wood 2x4's, maybe some 2x6's for the "roof", some 1/2" osb for the walls and roof, and you should be good to go. youre not building the taj mahal. siesmic loads? give me a break. what are you afraid of--that little box falling on you? i'd think it'd be safer if the building started collapsing to be in a little shelter. you could screw it to the floor with some 3" deck screws. for light storage it'd be fine. (don't be storing your anvil collection up there.) DerbyDad03 wrote: There may be a number of code/safety issues to consider here. If you live in an earthquake prone area, I'd be a little nervous about a freestanding room, especially one that is going to be top-heavy due to storage and/or guests. The top is going to have to meet requirements for a "regular" floor, since it will have to support the dead load of the storage as well as the live load of 1 or 2 people climbing into bed. So you are going to need joists, a subfloor and possibly a finish floor. Go to http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp to determine the joist size based on what you are planning to put on top of the cube. By the way, even if the top of the cube is the full 8 x 8, that's pretty cramped for sleeping area. A single bed is going to take up over a third of that space, which I guess is OK in an emergency. I'm also a little confused by 2 seemingly contradicting lines in your post. First you say: My...concern is not attaching the room to the existing structure. Then you ask: what is the best way to bolt it to the floor? So, let's assume it is going to be attached, at least at the floor. Let's also assume you don't want your guests rolling out of bed and falling to the floor - which means a railing of some type. Consider extending the corner posts up to the existing ceiling and attaching them to the joists of the existing structure. This will give you both a firm attachment to the existing structure and a firm place to attach your railings to. Seeing that the cube is going to be top heavy, you are going to want to have some means to prevent racking. Attaching the cube to the existing ceiling will prevent that. If not, you might want to consider bracing on the side walls. While I've never used metal studs, I do know that they do not have any real strength until the drywall is attached. I can't imagine how they could be used as the top plate to support the joists you are going to need to build the floor on top of the cube. Finally, If you are planning to brace the side walls, you'll need to use plywood because I wouldn't rely on drywall to provide enough bracing strength for a top heavy cube. Check out these pictures to see the effect of wind on a freestanding structure that wasn't braced properly. http://www.unified-eng.com/ch/bracing.html I know you won't be dealing with wind, but I can imagine that an uneven load on the top of a free standing cube might eventually have the same effect. jeez, that sounds like a lot of engineering for a little box. i'd get some wood 2x4's, maybe some 2x6's for the "roof", some 1/2" osb for the walls and roof, and you should be good to go. youre not building the taj mahal. siesmic loads? give me a break. what are you afraid of--that little box falling on you? i'd think it'd be safer if the building started collapsing to be in a little shelter. you could screw it to the floor with some 3" deck screws. for light storage it'd be fine. (don't be storing your anvil collection up there.) |
#7
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
"EXT" wrote in message anews.com... Personally, I would not think in the terms of a "room built out of construction materials", instead I would consider an "oversize cabinet". It could be built out of some framing materials with dados in the sides to fit in a sheet of plywood or whatever is preferred. This method could be used for all the walls. The ceiling would need a little more engineering to make it strong enough for storage. If one were to build a very large cabinet, there would be no need to pull a permit, it would keep the weight down to reduce structural consideration on the existing building floor and would be simpler to build and possibly knock down when the time comes. I wonder about the whole situation. Is the building zoned for living space? There may be some serious code issues if it is truly an industrial building. |
#8
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
This is a good point, although the OP didn't specify what the interior
of the 8 x 8 space would be used for. Stud walls may be required if he wanted to add shelfs, etc. I am curious about your suggestion though. I suppose it couldn't rack because the plywood can't rack across its plane. Do you think it would necessary to secure the plywood into the dados in any manner or do you think that the frame itself would hold it all together once the plywood was inserted and the frame secured at the corners? Interesting. EXT wrote: Personally, I would not think in the terms of a "room built out of construction materials", instead I would consider an "oversize cabinet". It could be built out of some framing materials with dados in the sides to fit in a sheet of plywood or whatever is preferred. This method could be used for all the walls. The ceiling would need a little more engineering to make it strong enough for storage. If one were to build a very large cabinet, there would be no need to pull a permit, it would keep the weight down to reduce structural consideration on the existing building floor and would be simpler to build and possibly knock down when the time comes. Metal studs will not be strong enough to hold weight, they are only strong enough to hold up some drywall, unless you go all the way to structural metal studding, which will cost more, weigh more and be harder to use. "DerbyDad03" wrote in message oups.com... Form and function, my dear marson, form and function. While the OP may not be building the taj mahal, it does sound like he is building a room within a living space - note the mention of a sleeping area for guests. Therefore he might want the room to look nice, both inside and out. OSB might not fit the bill here from a "form" perspective, but yes, it would be "functional". You mentioned 2x6's for the roof and that might be fine for this application, although the OP did not mention his requirements other than "it needs to support some load." Without knowing what his storage needs are (or the size of his guests) I wasn't going to suggest a joist size. That's up to him to determine based on his requirements. Perhaps he does indeed have an anvil collection that he needs to store - or some pretty beefy guests. As for the extension of the corner posts up the existing joists - again, if this going to be inside a living area and needs to look nice, the corner posts would provide both form and function. A secure railing would not only be functional from a safety perspective, but would look nice (read: form). Marson Wrote: jeez, that sounds like a lot of engineering for a little box. i'd get some wood 2x4's, maybe some 2x6's for the "roof", some 1/2" osb for the walls and roof, and you should be good to go. youre not building the taj mahal. siesmic loads? give me a break. what are you afraid of--that little box falling on you? i'd think it'd be safer if the building started collapsing to be in a little shelter. you could screw it to the floor with some 3" deck screws. for light storage it'd be fine. (don't be storing your anvil collection up there.) DerbyDad03 wrote: There may be a number of code/safety issues to consider here. If you live in an earthquake prone area, I'd be a little nervous about a freestanding room, especially one that is going to be top-heavy due to storage and/or guests. The top is going to have to meet requirements for a "regular" floor, since it will have to support the dead load of the storage as well as the live load of 1 or 2 people climbing into bed. So you are going to need joists, a subfloor and possibly a finish floor. Go to http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp to determine the joist size based on what you are planning to put on top of the cube. By the way, even if the top of the cube is the full 8 x 8, that's pretty cramped for sleeping area. A single bed is going to take up over a third of that space, which I guess is OK in an emergency. I'm also a little confused by 2 seemingly contradicting lines in your post. First you say: My...concern is not attaching the room to the existing structure. Then you ask: what is the best way to bolt it to the floor? So, let's assume it is going to be attached, at least at the floor. Let's also assume you don't want your guests rolling out of bed and falling to the floor - which means a railing of some type. Consider extending the corner posts up to the existing ceiling and attaching them to the joists of the existing structure. This will give you both a firm attachment to the existing structure and a firm place to attach your railings to. Seeing that the cube is going to be top heavy, you are going to want to have some means to prevent racking. Attaching the cube to the existing ceiling will prevent that. If not, you might want to consider bracing on the side walls. While I've never used metal studs, I do know that they do not have any real strength until the drywall is attached. I can't imagine how they could be used as the top plate to support the joists you are going to need to build the floor on top of the cube. Finally, If you are planning to brace the side walls, you'll need to use plywood because I wouldn't rely on drywall to provide enough bracing strength for a top heavy cube. Check out these pictures to see the effect of wind on a freestanding structure that wasn't braced properly. http://www.unified-eng.com/ch/bracing.html I know you won't be dealing with wind, but I can imagine that an uneven load on the top of a free standing cube might eventually have the same effect. jeez, that sounds like a lot of engineering for a little box. i'd get some wood 2x4's, maybe some 2x6's for the "roof", some 1/2" osb for the walls and roof, and you should be good to go. youre not building the taj mahal. siesmic loads? give me a break. what are you afraid of--that little box falling on you? i'd think it'd be safer if the building started collapsing to be in a little shelter. you could screw it to the floor with some 3" deck screws. for light storage it'd be fine. (don't be storing your anvil collection up there.) |
#9
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Any Advice on Building an 8x8 Room Inside a Loft in an Old Factory
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