I have a house that was built in the 50's and none of the outlets are
grounded. I am getting ready to add new molding through out the house
would this be a good time to ground all the outlets as well?? i was
thinking of running a single copper wire from the ground at the breaker
to the rest of the outlets. my house is on a slab so basement is out of
the question and i have valted ceilings. i just wanted to know if this
was a bad idea or not?

wrote:
I have a house that was built in the 50's and none of the outlets are
grounded. I am getting ready to add new molding through out the house
would this be a good time to ground all the outlets as well?? i was
thinking of running a single copper wire from the ground at the breaker
to the rest of the outlets. my house is on a slab so basement is out of
the question and i have valted ceilings. i just wanted to know if this
was a bad idea or not?

It's a good idea to do the wiring before installing the molding, as you
will most likely have some plaster to repair, however, IMHO, installing
just a single wire is a waste of time. Whatever labor is involved
getting the single wire to the outlets is going to be the same as if
you installed Romex. For an extra $200 -300 (US) you'll have a far
superior installation. After you do all that work, you will be glad
you spent the extra $.

K&T???

Your much better replacing it to make resale easier someday and besides
code doesnt allow a seperate ground

You'd be hard pressed to find K&T installed in the fifties, and the NEC does
allow a separate ground wire run to correct his problem. That being cleared
up, Volts500 still has the most practical solution




wrote in message
ups.com...
K&T???

Your much better replacing it to make resale easier someday and besides
code doesnt allow a seperate ground

If the wiring is BX its very possible he doesnt need ground wire added
and may be able to use the existing armoring as ground provided it
tests ok

just change receptables and add pigtail between box and ground
connection n new receptables.

avoid at all costs those cheap backstab outlets they are terrible and
cause flakey connections

RBM wrote:

You'd be hard pressed to find K&T installed in the fifties,

SNIP

HaHaHA

Here in Cleveland (OH), K&T was the *only* material
used in res work well into the 60's.
Can't give you an exact cutoff date, but I suspect
that the grounding requirements ca. 1965
prompted the permission for NM cable.

Jim

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive, they
would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties


"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...
RBM wrote:

You'd be hard pressed to find K&T installed in the fifties,

SNIP

HaHaHA

Here in Cleveland (OH), K&T was the *only* material
used in res work well into the 60's.
Can't give you an exact cutoff date, but I suspect
that the grounding requirements ca. 1965
prompted the permission for NM cable.

Jim

On 15 Dec 2006 14:51:55 -0800, "
wrote:


If the wiring is BX its very possible he doesnt need ground wire added
and may be able to use the existing armoring as ground provided it
tests ok

just change receptables and add pigtail between box and ground
connection n new receptables.

avoid at all costs those cheap backstab outlets they are terrible and
cause flakey connections

This is exactly what I did in my late 50's house. Everything was wired
with BX. However, it had cloth covered rubber insulated wires. Talk
about brittle flakey old insulation. Just removing the outlets was
enough to crack the insulation. In many cases I ended up running new
BX, In others, I covered the pigtails with heat shrink tubing.
Surprisingly, only the wires coming out of the BX were brittle. If you
cut back the armour, the wires still inside the armour were like new.

So if you open those boxes up, take care with the insulation.

dickm

RBM wrote:

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive, they
would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties

The labor is exactly why it remained for so long.
Cleveland was/is a labor town and they controlled
what city hall wrote (ordinances) for a long time.

Outlying areas (several counties in fact)
continued to follow the Cleveland practice for
nearly as long. As a result, we have literally
millions of homes with K&T. Can you picture
the mountain of porcelain knobs that would be created
if all these homes were stripped at one time? g
Jim




"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...

RBM wrote:


You'd be hard pressed to find K&T installed in the fifties,

SNIP

HaHaHA

Here in Cleveland (OH), K&T was the *only* material
used in res work well into the 60's.
Can't give you an exact cutoff date, but I suspect
that the grounding requirements ca. 1965
prompted the permission for NM cable.

Jim

Well, like you point out, newer grounding code is what killed K&T. In many
respects it really was the Cadillac of wiring. David Shapiro mentions in his
book that San Francisco used it up until the forties, and parts of New
Orleans , up into the eighties



"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. ..
RBM wrote:

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive,
they would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties

The labor is exactly why it remained for so long.
Cleveland was/is a labor town and they controlled
what city hall wrote (ordinances) for a long time.

Outlying areas (several counties in fact)
continued to follow the Cleveland practice for
nearly as long. As a result, we have literally
millions of homes with K&T. Can you picture
the mountain of porcelain knobs that would be created
if all these homes were stripped at one time? g
Jim




"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...

RBM wrote:


You'd be hard pressed to find K&T installed in the fifties,

SNIP

HaHaHA

Here in Cleveland (OH), K&T was the *only* material
used in res work well into the 60's.
Can't give you an exact cutoff date, but I suspect
that the grounding requirements ca. 1965
prompted the permission for NM cable.

Jim

so could i run the Romex through the studs when i am replaing the
molding like if i was adding a outlet?????? because like i said
basement space and attic space is next to none





volts500 wrote:
wrote:
I have a house that was built in the 50's and none of the outlets are
grounded. I am getting ready to add new molding through out the house
would this be a good time to ground all the outlets as well?? i was
thinking of running a single copper wire from the ground at the breaker
to the rest of the outlets. my house is on a slab so basement is out of
the question and i have valted ceilings. i just wanted to know if this
was a bad idea or not?

It's a good idea to do the wiring before installing the molding, as you
will most likely have some plaster to repair, however, IMHO, installing
just a single wire is a waste of time. Whatever labor is involved
getting the single wire to the outlets is going to be the same as if
you installed Romex. For an extra $200 -300 (US) you'll have a far
superior installation. After you do all that work, you will be glad
you spent the extra $.

YES



wrote in message
oups.com...
so could i run the Romex through the studs when i am replaing the
molding like if i was adding a outlet?????? because like i said
basement space and attic space is next to none





volts500 wrote:
wrote:
I have a house that was built in the 50's and none of the outlets are
grounded. I am getting ready to add new molding through out the house
would this be a good time to ground all the outlets as well?? i was
thinking of running a single copper wire from the ground at the breaker
to the rest of the outlets. my house is on a slab so basement is out of
the question and i have valted ceilings. i just wanted to know if this
was a bad idea or not?

It's a good idea to do the wiring before installing the molding, as you
will most likely have some plaster to repair, however, IMHO, installing
just a single wire is a waste of time. Whatever labor is involved
getting the single wire to the outlets is going to be the same as if
you installed Romex. For an extra $200 -300 (US) you'll have a far
superior installation. After you do all that work, you will be glad
you spent the extra $.

Speedy Jim wrote:
RBM wrote:

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive, they
would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties

The labor is exactly why it remained for so long.
Cleveland was/is a labor town and they controlled
what city hall wrote (ordinances) for a long time.


some areas of us still MANDATE cast iron fpr plumbing just to keep
plumbers working....

featherbedding comes to mind.........

spake thus:

Speedy Jim wrote:

RBM wrote:

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive, they
would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties

The labor is exactly why it remained for so long.
Cleveland was/is a labor town and they controlled
what city hall wrote (ordinances) for a long time.

some areas of us still MANDATE cast iron fpr plumbing just to keep
plumbers working....

Where? Cite, please.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

In Westchester County, NY, underground waste lines have to be cast iron. You
can transition to abs, or pvc above ground



"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
spake thus:

Speedy Jim wrote:

RBM wrote:

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive,
they
would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties

The labor is exactly why it remained for so long.
Cleveland was/is a labor town and they controlled
what city hall wrote (ordinances) for a long time.

some areas of us still MANDATE cast iron fpr plumbing just to keep
plumbers working....

Where? Cite, please.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

some areas of us still MANDATE cast iron fpr plumbing just to keep
plumbers working....

Where? Cite, please.



San fgransico just a few years ago this old house episoide

How are you gonna do this? By cutting the bottom of the drywall
off through the whole house because it will be covered with the
new molding? What about places where you can't get through
bottom framing, etc?

wrote ...
so could i run the Romex through the studs when i am replaing the
molding like if i was adding a outlet?????? because like i said
basement space and attic space is next to none

volts500 wrote:
wrote:
I have a house that was built in the 50's and none of the outlets are
grounded. I am getting ready to add new molding through out the house
would this be a good time to ground all the outlets as well?? i was
thinking of running a single copper wire from the ground at the breaker
to the rest of the outlets. my house is on a slab so basement is out of
the question and i have valted ceilings. i just wanted to know if this
was a bad idea or not?

It's a good idea to do the wiring before installing the molding, as you
will most likely have some plaster to repair, however, IMHO, installing
just a single wire is a waste of time. Whatever labor is involved
getting the single wire to the outlets is going to be the same as if
you installed Romex. For an extra $200 -300 (US) you'll have a far
superior installation. After you do all that work, you will be glad
you spent the extra $.

RBM wrote:

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive, they
would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties

I have read that K&T was used in the war years to save on metal
and that K&T is still used in some areas prone to fooding because it
dries out faster. (I wouldn't guarantee either tidbit.)

--
bud--


"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...

RBM wrote:


You'd be hard pressed to find K&T installed in the fifties,

SNIP

HaHaHA

Here in Cleveland (OH), K&T was the *only* material
used in res work well into the 60's.
Can't give you an exact cutoff date, but I suspect
that the grounding requirements ca. 1965
prompted the permission for NM cable.

Jim

That's exactly what Shapiro wrote in his book, regarding parts of New
Orleans that flooded often



"Bud--" wrote in message
.. .
RBM wrote:

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive,
they would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties

I have read that K&T was used in the war years to save on metal
and that K&T is still used in some areas prone to fooding because it dries
out faster. (I wouldn't guarantee either tidbit.)

--
bud--


"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...

RBM wrote:


You'd be hard pressed to find K&T installed in the fifties,

SNIP

HaHaHA

Here in Cleveland (OH), K&T was the *only* material
used in res work well into the 60's.
Can't give you an exact cutoff date, but I suspect
that the grounding requirements ca. 1965
prompted the permission for NM cable.

Jim

RBM wrote:

That's exactly what Shapiro wrote in his book, regarding parts of New
Orleans that flooded often

Remember the title? Seems like not a lot of extended information on
grounding out there.

--
bud--

New York City requires cast iron (no hub is OK) waste lines on all buildings
over two stories. Concern is rats, hazardous fumes in case of a fire and
plumbers' income.
--
Peace,
BobJ

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
spake thus:

Speedy Jim wrote:

RBM wrote:

That's hard to believe. You'd think with it being so labor intensive,
they
would have gone to ac, or nm in the forties

The labor is exactly why it remained for so long.
Cleveland was/is a labor town and they controlled
what city hall wrote (ordinances) for a long time.

some areas of us still MANDATE cast iron fpr plumbing just to keep
plumbers working....

Where? Cite, please.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

Marilyn & Bob wrote:
New York City requires cast iron (no hub is OK) waste lines on all buildings
over two stories. Concern is rats, hazardous fumes in case of a fire and
plumbers' income.

Copper isn't allowed? weird.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

We're talking Waste line here. Copper is not an issue, PVC is.
--
Peace,
BobJ

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Marilyn & Bob wrote:
New York City requires cast iron (no hub is OK) waste lines on all
buildings over two stories. Concern is rats, hazardous fumes in case of
a fire and plumbers' income.

Copper isn't allowed? weird.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Marilyn & Bob wrote:
We're talking Waste line here. Copper is not an issue, PVC is.


Whoa! Copper was a *big* contender for the DWV market
from the late 40's thru the 60's/70's.

http://www.copper.org/applications/p...th_table2d.htm
for the many sizes available.

The arrival of PVC in DWV form finally killed it off.

Jim

Marilyn & Bob wrote:
We're talking Waste line here. Copper is not an issue, PVC is.

I know, soldered copper seems to be somewhat common in this area. Seems
like the best all around to me although I'm sure it's not cheap.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel