Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

In article , 46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

What he said...

12 AWG wire is intended for use with 20A breakers so you are good to
go.

14A\WG wire is for 15A breakers.


Doug Miller wrote:
In article , 46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , 46erjoe
wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes.

No, maybe. Depends on the length of the circuit and the expected load.

here we go.........

--
Steve Barker

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , 46erjoe
wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes.

No, maybe. Depends on the length of the circuit and the expected load.

46erjoe wrote:

Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

I think a ground wire is a given now. I think you'd be hard pressed to find
12/2 without a ground.

--
Steve Barker

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
46erjoe wrote:

Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be code
required. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

In article , Jeff Wisnia wrote:
46erjoe wrote:

Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Do you _really_ think that if you walk into an electrical supply house and ask
for a length of 12/2 cable, you're _not_ going to get cable with black, white,
*and* ground?????

To the OP: ignore Jeff's post. If you're running a 120V 20A circuit, 12/2 is
what you want -- it has the ground included. Don't buy 12/3, thinking that you
need that to get the ground wire. You don't.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
46erjoe wrote:

Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?


Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Doesn't 12/2 generally already have a ground lead?

Chris

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
46erjoe wrote:

Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?


Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Doesn't 12/2 generally already have a ground lead?

The "G" means he is grinning as he says it.

In article , "Toller" wrote:

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
46erjoe wrote:

Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?


Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Doesn't 12/2 generally already have a ground lead?

The "G" means he is grinning as he says it.

Well, yes, but it's a stupid joke, because of course the ground lead *is*
there.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Toller" wrote:

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

46erjoe wrote:


Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?


Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Doesn't 12/2 generally already have a ground lead?


The "G" means he is grinning as he says it.


Well, yes, but it's a stupid joke, because of course the ground lead *is*
there.



Well I for one, the quintessential pack rat, have got quite a bit of
unused 12/2 WITHOUT ground lying in my basement, right next to a coil of
Romex, so maybe the OP has some too.

Judging from some of the electrical inquiries We've all read here lately
it's not completely beyond belief that someone might be thinking about
using up some "old new stock" two wire Romex or even (G-d forbid) a
piece of an old extension cord to install a new outlet.

But, I do agree that it WAS a stupid joke on my part.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:43:39 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Jeff Wisnia wrote:
46erjoe wrote:

Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Do you _really_ think that if you walk into an electrical supply house and ask
for a length of 12/2 cable, you're _not_ going to get cable with black, white,
*and* ground?????

To the OP: ignore Jeff's post. If you're running a 120V 20A circuit, 12/2 is
what you want -- it has the ground included. Don't buy 12/3, thinking that you
need that to get the ground wire. You don't.

12/3 will actually have 4 wires: black, white, red, and bare.
--
20 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:43:39 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Jeff Wisnia
wrote:
46erjoe wrote:

Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Do you _really_ think that if you walk into an electrical supply house and ask
for a length of 12/2 cable, you're _not_ going to get cable with black, white,
*and* ground?????

To the OP: ignore Jeff's post. If you're running a 120V 20A circuit, 12/2 is
what you want -- it has the ground included. Don't buy 12/3, thinking that you
need that to get the ground wire. You don't.

12/3 will actually have 4 wires: black, white, red, and bare.

Which, of course, is exactly why I told the OP not to be misled by Jeff's
wise-ass post into mistakenly thinking that he'd need 12/3 to have a ground
wire. Get with the program.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrotF:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

I was going to use it in two places:

1) new bathroom where the ceiling light is also a fan and heater +
the light over the sink + the GFI outlets around the perimeter of the
room

2) in a new bedroom I'm adding on that will have a baseboard electric
heater + ceiling light + perimeter outlets.

Can I stay with 12/2 and 20 amp breaker or should I go 10/2? Does this
change your responses? Thanks.

In article , 46erjoe wrote:
On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrotF:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

I was going to use it in two places:

1) new bathroom where the ceiling light is also a fan and heater +
the light over the sink + the GFI outlets around the perimeter of the
room

2) in a new bedroom I'm adding on that will have a baseboard electric
heater + ceiling light + perimeter outlets.

Can I stay with 12/2 and 20 amp breaker or should I go 10/2? Does this
change your responses? Thanks.

That depends on the ratings of the equipment you're adding, especially the
heaters -- and also on whether you're planning to put all that on one circuit,
or two (or more).

Post the electrical ratings of the heaters, including the voltage (baseboard
heaters are often 240V), and we can give you a better answer.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"46erjoe" wrote in message
...
On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrotF:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

I was going to use it in two places:

1) new bathroom where the ceiling light is also a fan and heater +
the light over the sink + the GFI outlets around the perimeter of the
room

2) in a new bedroom I'm adding on that will have a baseboard electric
heater + ceiling light + perimeter outlets.

Can I stay with 12/2 and 20 amp breaker or should I go 10/2? Does this
change your responses? Thanks.

Calculate the maximum current when all the loads are on. If it's more than
20 A, then go to 10 gage wire.

46erjoe wrote:

I was going to use it in two places:

1) new bathroom where the ceiling light is also a fan and heater +
the light over the sink + the GFI outlets around the perimeter of the
room

2) in a new bedroom I'm adding on that will have a baseboard electric
heater + ceiling light + perimeter outlets.

Can I stay with 12/2 and 20 amp breaker or should I go 10/2? Does this
change your responses? Thanks.

Around here you cannot wire lights on a 20A circuit. Only dedicated
receptacle circuits.

Chris

Your light-heat-vent unit will probably require a dedicated 20 amp circuit,
then the rest of the bathroom could be wired with an additional 20 amp
circuit. You should run a dedicated circuit for the bedroom electric heat,
and at least one 15 or 20 amp circuits for the balance of the room, keep in
mind in the U.S. all bedroom wiring is to be AFCI protected


"46erjoe" wrote in message
...
On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrotF:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

I was going to use it in two places:

1) new bathroom where the ceiling light is also a fan and heater +
the light over the sink + the GFI outlets around the perimeter of the
room

2) in a new bedroom I'm adding on that will have a baseboard electric
heater + ceiling light + perimeter outlets.

Can I stay with 12/2 and 20 amp breaker or should I go 10/2? Does this
change your responses? Thanks.

clarification : 120 volt bedroom outlet wiring is to be AFCI protected


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Your light-heat-vent unit will probably require a dedicated 20 amp
circuit, then the rest of the bathroom could be wired with an additional
20 amp circuit. You should run a dedicated circuit for the bedroom
electric heat, and at least one 15 or 20 amp circuits for the balance of
the room, keep in mind in the U.S. all bedroom wiring is to be AFCI
protected


"46erjoe" wrote in message
...
On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrotF:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

I was going to use it in two places:

1) new bathroom where the ceiling light is also a fan and heater +
the light over the sink + the GFI outlets around the perimeter of the
room

2) in a new bedroom I'm adding on that will have a baseboard electric
heater + ceiling light + perimeter outlets.

Can I stay with 12/2 and 20 amp breaker or should I go 10/2? Does this
change your responses? Thanks.

And where does THAT rule come from? and where is "around here"

--
Steve Barker


"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Around here you cannot wire lights on a 20A circuit. Only dedicated
receptacle circuits.

Chris

"Steve Barker LT" wrote in
:

here we go.........



LOL! Ain't that the truth!

RBM spake thus:

clarification : 120 volt bedroom outlet wiring is to be AFCI protected

You do mean *bathroom*, not bedroom, right?


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

He was correct in what he said. (on new construction only) Although it had
nothing to do with the thread.

--
Steve Barker



"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
RBM spake thus:

clarification : 120 volt bedroom outlet wiring is to be AFCI protected

You do mean *bathroom*, not bedroom, right?


--

In article m, David Nebenzahl wrote:
RBM spake thus:

clarification : 120 volt bedroom outlet wiring is to be AFCI protected

You do mean *bathroom*, not bedroom, right?


No, he means bedroom. Perhaps you're reading AFCI and thinking GFCI.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

2) in a new bedroom I'm adding on that will have a baseboard electric
heater + ceiling light + perimeter outlets.

I'm assuming he's talking about new construction here

"Steve Barker LT" wrote in message
...
He was correct in what he said. (on new construction only) Although it
had nothing to do with the thread.

--
Steve Barker



"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
RBM spake thus:

clarification : 120 volt bedroom outlet wiring is to be AFCI protected

You do mean *bathroom*, not bedroom, right?


--

Steve Barker LT wrote:
And where does THAT rule come from? and where is "around here"

Rule 30-104(a) in the CEC. Lighting circuits in a dwelling unit must be
protected by 15A fuses or breakers.

I'm in Canada.

Chris

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:59:31 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Toller" wrote:

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

46erjoe wrote:


Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?


Yes, but you might want to think about a ground lead too, it might be
code required. G

Doesn't 12/2 generally already have a ground lead?


The "G" means he is grinning as he says it.


Well, yes, but it's a stupid joke, because of course the ground lead *is*
there.



Well I for one, the quintessential pack rat, have got quite a bit of
unused 12/2 WITHOUT ground lying in my basement, right next to a coil of
Romex, so maybe the OP has some too.

Judging from some of the electrical inquiries We've all read here lately
it's not completely beyond belief that someone might be thinking about
using up some "old new stock" two wire Romex or even (G-d forbid) a
piece of an old extension cord to install a new outlet.

Around 1953 my parents decided I needed more outlets in my bedroom (I
was 6), and my father was not cheap. And after being a bachelor until
he was 53, and living in his parents' house, he had plenty of money.

So I presume he hired an electrician and not a handyman. I know the
guy did a very neat job.

And what he did is plug a cord into the receptacle in my parents' big
closet, drill a hole through the wall into my room, and run the lamp
cord from the plug along the baseboard, where he mounted two
surface-mount outlets.

We moved when I was 10. I was last inside the house when I was about
25. Next time I'm near there, I'm going to ask if I can come in and
look again, and check if the outlets are still working.


I know we never had any problems, but that was when a bedroom was well
equipped if it had a lamp and a clock-radio (or a clock and a radio,
although wind-up clocks were not uncommon). Of course the radio used
more current than now, because it had tubes, but those were the only
two things in any of our bedrooms. (Well, my mother had 4 lamps in
hers, but that was the only diff.)

But, I do agree that it WAS a stupid joke on my part.

Jeff

On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad?

What if it is Al Gore?

AAAHhhhhhhhhh..

--
Steve Barker

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker LT wrote:
And where does THAT rule come from? and where is "around here"

Rule 30-104(a) in the CEC. Lighting circuits in a dwelling unit must be
protected by 15A fuses or breakers.

I'm in Canada.

Chris

Doug Miller spake thus:

In article m, David Nebenzahl wrote:

RBM spake thus:

clarification : 120 volt bedroom outlet wiring is to be AFCI protected

You do mean *bathroom*, not bedroom, right?

No, he means bedroom. Perhaps you're reading AFCI and thinking GFCI.

Ah, yes: I didn't even know of the existence of arc-fault circuit
interruptors (and I ought to). Thanks for pointing that out to me.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

mm wrote:
On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad?

What if it is Al Gore?

He's reinventing the Internet.

On 6 Dec 2006 11:25:40 -0800, "RayV" wrote:


mm wrote:
On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad?

What if it is Al Gore?

He's reinventing the Internet.

He never said he invented the Internet. It was probably one of Rush
Limbaugh's lies.

In article , mm wrote:
On 6 Dec 2006 11:25:40 -0800, "RayV" wrote:


mm wrote:
On 5 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:


46erjoe wrote:
Can I use 12/2 wire for a 20 amp line?

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad.

Not if it is Al or Al Cu-clad?

What if it is Al Gore?

He's reinventing the Internet.

He never said he invented the Internet.

True. What he actually said was, "I took the initiative in creating the
Internet." Which, of course, was a lie.

It was probably one of Rush Limbaugh's lies.

No, Gore was the liar there -- and in many other cases, too. Example: he
claimed that his mother sang him to sleep as a child using the song "Look for
the Union Label" as a lullaby -- but he was already a grown man when the song
was written. Another example: he claimed to have spent his youth working on
the family farm; truth is he spent a few weekends there.

Try pointing to just *one* lie told by Limbaugh.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Try pointing to just *one* lie told by Limbaugh.

I can point to lies told by Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Gandhi, King,
the list goes on and on

Wow, this Limbaugh person must be like Jesus, Mohammed, Budda and God all
wrapped into one.

You and this Limbaugh person hang around in a rarefied atmosphere with darn
special people!

Not like the people I hang around with.

Mark

They don't call him Maha Rushie for nothing



"Kram" wrote in message
.. .

Try pointing to just *one* lie told by Limbaugh.

I can point to lies told by Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Gandhi, King,
the list goes on and on

Wow, this Limbaugh person must be like Jesus, Mohammed, Budda and God all
wrapped into one.

You and this Limbaugh person hang around in a rarefied atmosphere with
darn
special people!

Not like the people I hang around with.

Mark

I'll bet the faithful don't

They don't call him Maha Rushie for nothing

Try pointing to just *one* lie told by Limbaugh.

I can point to lies told by Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Gandhi,
King, the list goes on and on

Wow, this Limbaugh person must be like Jesus, Mohammed, Budda and God
all wrapped into one.

You and this Limbaugh person hang around in a rarefied atmosphere
with darn
special people!

Not like the people I hang around with.

The faithful call him the "truth detector"


"Kram" wrote in message
.. .
I'll bet the faithful don't

They don't call him Maha Rushie for nothing

Try pointing to just *one* lie told by Limbaugh.

I can point to lies told by Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Gandhi,
King, the list goes on and on

Wow, this Limbaugh person must be like Jesus, Mohammed, Budda and God
all wrapped into one.

You and this Limbaugh person hang around in a rarefied atmosphere
with darn
special people!

Not like the people I hang around with.

In article , Kram wrote:

Try pointing to just *one* lie told by Limbaugh.

I can point to lies told by Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Gandhi, King,
the list goes on and on

Wow, this Limbaugh person must be like Jesus, Mohammed, Budda and God all
wrapped into one.

I notice: (a) you snipped everything I wrote about Gore's lies, and (b) you
weren't able to provide any evidence of Limbaugh's alleged lies. Odd.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.