Question: If a casement window is dripping water from the gap at the top
and the water gets between the inner and outer sash, is likely this would
cause the water to get behind the drywall and onto the floor?

Reason I'm asking is because, about 10 days ago after it rained, I had
water on the floor, and the drywall around the window corner was moist when
probing with moisture detector. (but the sill did not seem wet, and the
wallpaper was not wet) I wasn't in the room when the leak actually happened
though.

I don't know who makes these windows. They are aluminum clad with no
markings. The outer frame and outer sill is aluminum, but the inner sill
and inner part of the sash is wood.

Today it's rainy, I'm noticing that water is dripping from the gap at the
top, so now I'm SUSPECTING this is what happened last time (dripped from the
gap at top into the gab between inner and outer sash).

However, I'm afraid to conclude yet that this is the same exact thing that
happened 10 days though. Yesterday afternoon I tried squirting water from
an empty shampoo bottle directly into the gap at the top and I wasn't able
to get water to drip down the gap into the inside. And I suppose that maybe
my testing yesterday got the seal wet "primed it" to make drip through the
gap at the top this time. But I agree that the seal (V-type flap that fits
in the kerf on top of sash) has flattened out since I installed it last
spring. I will put some D-Seal rubber weather-strip underneath to give it
upward pressure. If water getting past the top seal is cause of what
happened 10 days ago then hopefully this will solve it.

Other thoughts:

I also notice that the association didn't caulk the gap where the siding
meets the top of the window. An engineer told me that there really should
not be caulk there because if water should ever get behind siding then it
would have no place to escape except inward. But I'm wondering if not
having it caulked there could also cause a leak if enough water gets into
that gap.

I tried to get the association to install drip caps last year, and the
property manager agreed to do it, but the workers did not want to take
siding off (even though they were replacing other wood that was rotted at
various locations). The lack of a drip cap doesn't seem to be helping
matters. These windows have a metal frame that sticks outward a little, but
no drip cap, and I'm told they have a flange underneath the siding. Do you
think I should have the association caulk the gap at the top where the
siding meets the window frame, even though an engineer says that's not the
right thing to do? Do you think I should push to have drip caps installed?

Thanks,

J.

I meant to say "between inner and outer sill" in first paragraph.

Any chance you just need to clean your gutters? My first house was like
that, if it rained and the casement windows leaked, it was time to
clean the gutters.

Any chance you just need to clean your gutters? My first house was like
that, if it rained and the casement windows leaked, it was time to
clean the gutters.

This is on the side of the building. No gutters there.

J.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:07:42 GMT, "jaynews"
wrote:

Question: If a casement window is dripping water from the gap at the top
and the water gets between the inner and outer sash, is likely this would
cause the water to get behind the drywall and onto the floor?

Reason I'm asking is because, about 10 days ago after it rained, I had
water on the floor, and the drywall around the window corner was moist when
probing with moisture detector. (but the sill did not seem wet, and the
wallpaper was not wet) I wasn't in the room when the leak actually happened
though.


Generally, the bottom sill is a solid peice, and sloped out,
so that any water that penetrates the window structure itself
is dumped under the window, back outside. I suppose it's
possible that the sash-to-sill is making such a good seal that
the water has to get out by running under the side-rails
and thus into the wall cavity, but it seems more likely
that you're getting water behind the siding and/or
in around the window trim that's travelling around
the window along the rough framing.

Open the window and look carefully at where the
sill dissappears under the rails. Caulk or paint
that crack. If that doesn't solve the problem,
then the water is probably getting in farther up
the wall. At that point, test by spraying water down at the
top of the window. If THAT doesn't generate water,
but rain does, you're probably going to have to
open the wall to see where it's coming from.

On this particular window it appears that it has:

1) The inner sill which is the lower side of the wood trim that surrounds
the window on all 4 sides inside the house. (Sort of like a giant fat
picture frame on the inside.)
2) A horizontal block of wood further outward, which is at the same level
as the inner sill. The inner frame that holds the crank sits mostly on top
of this block of wood (that I'll refer to as #2).
3) Then, further out there is the outer sill which is aluminum clad. At
start of the outer sill is a lip in the aluminum that sticks up holding a
gasket pointing outward.
4) There is a gap between block of wood (#2 above) and the outer sill
(albeit small). There also appears to be a gap between that block of wood
and the inner sill as well. There are gaps on the sides of that block of
wood as well, between it and the vertical blocks of wood that exist on the
side of it. There are also gaps between the outer jambs and the vertical
blocks that I just described.

Key Question: Lets say water drips down from the gap at the TOP of sash and
then drips onto the gap at the BOTTOM sash. Seems to me that it could easily
hit block of wood #2 (especially since there is the gasket touching inner
window frame). Once the water hits the inner block of wood #2, then it
could get into the gaps between it and the outer sill as well as the gaps
between it and the inner sill, etc. Could water getting into these gaps
cause it to get behind the drywall and then the floor? Unless there is some
(totally hidden) mechanism to direct the water back outside if it got into
the gaps surrounding block of wood #2, then I'm not seeing how the water
could get back outside, and this could potentially explain why it got behind
the drywall, could it not?

Just seems to me that once water gets further inward then the aluminum clad
part, that the water simply isn't going to be making its' way back outside
the house, the way this particular window was designed. Does that sound
right? (Again, this is an unlabeled window from an unknown manufacturer.)

Thanks,

J.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 03:40:51 GMT, "jaynews"
wrote:

I can't make any sense of your description, but yes, if there's
a water-path through the sill, that's bad.



On this particular window it appears that it has:

1) The inner sill which is the lower side of the wood trim that surrounds
the window on all 4 sides inside the house. (Sort of like a giant fat
picture frame on the inside.)
2) A horizontal block of wood further outward, which is at the same level
as the inner sill. The inner frame that holds the crank sits mostly on top
of this block of wood (that I'll refer to as #2).
3) Then, further out there is the outer sill which is aluminum clad. At
start of the outer sill is a lip in the aluminum that sticks up holding a
gasket pointing outward.
4) There is a gap between block of wood (#2 above) and the outer sill
(albeit small). There also appears to be a gap between that block of wood
and the inner sill as well. There are gaps on the sides of that block of
wood as well, between it and the vertical blocks of wood that exist on the
side of it. There are also gaps between the outer jambs and the vertical
blocks that I just described.

Key Question: Lets say water drips down from the gap at the TOP of sash and
then drips onto the gap at the BOTTOM sash. Seems to me that it could easily
hit block of wood #2 (especially since there is the gasket touching inner
window frame). Once the water hits the inner block of wood #2, then it
could get into the gaps between it and the outer sill as well as the gaps
between it and the inner sill, etc. Could water getting into these gaps
cause it to get behind the drywall and then the floor? Unless there is some
(totally hidden) mechanism to direct the water back outside if it got into
the gaps surrounding block of wood #2, then I'm not seeing how the water
could get back outside, and this could potentially explain why it got behind
the drywall, could it not?

Just seems to me that once water gets further inward then the aluminum clad
part, that the water simply isn't going to be making its' way back outside
the house, the way this particular window was designed. Does that sound
right? (Again, this is an unlabeled window from an unknown manufacturer.)

Thanks,

J.

Basically I'm saying that it appears there 3 pieces of the sill. An inner
painted wooden part (visible inside the house), a middle wooden part that
just looks like a piece of bare wood, and then the outer part which is
aluminum (or aluminum clad).

Seems to me that water, if it dripped down from sash gap above and
eventually ran onto the middle piece of wood, it could then got into the
gaps between the other two parts of the sill, or the gaps at the ends of
this piece, then perhaps it could make its way under the drywall instead of
running outside the house. (especially since the outer sill has lip
sticking up that is higher than the level of the middle piece.)

Seems these windows were designed so that if anything ever gets past the
seals then it's staying in the house. But to be sure, then I'd have to
squirt water onto the middle piece see what happens but then I'd be getting
the drywall wet again (etc.) which likely isn't a good thing to be doing.

J.