So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about 4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.

Eigenvector wrote:
So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about 4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.


That was pretty common "in the day". They also used T-taps to add
wires
http://www.tpub.com/content/construc.../14027_123.htm
Wait until you find some of those babies.

Eigenvector wrote:

So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about 4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.

A previous owner of my current house did some similar "quality" work. He
happened to work for the electric utility too, kinda figures they
wouldn't have a clue how to wire a house. I've replaced pretty much all
of it along with the panels in the shop and house all with top grade
materials and done properly. No inspections here though as I'm outside
city limits.

Pete C.

Eigenvector spake thus:

So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about 4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.

Relax; I've seen a *lot* worse.

Like the restaurant I did some wiring for a few cough years ago; I
discovered a circuit in the kitchen that ran directly to the service
panel outside, with *no* breakers or fuses, just the service disconnect
breaker.

You probably could have lived with your tapped-light socket circuit for
many years with no problems.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

"Pat" wrote in message
oups.com...

Eigenvector wrote:
So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping
the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and
add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires
to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to
unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about
4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare
wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the
neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is
done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of
the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No
need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.


That was pretty common "in the day". They also used T-taps to add
wires
http://www.tpub.com/content/construc.../14027_123.htm
Wait until you find some of those babies.

I can't believe they would have endorsed something like that. Wouldn't it
have been far easier to simply twist the wires together with a wire nut?
Not being an electrician, that's what I would have done. If I was really
concerned about it I would have taped the nut to the wire insulation to seal
the connection.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Eigenvector wrote:

So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping
the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and
add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires
to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to
unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about
4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare
wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the
neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is
done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of
the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No
need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.

A previous owner of my current house did some similar "quality" work. He
happened to work for the electric utility too, kinda figures they
wouldn't have a clue how to wire a house. I've replaced pretty much all
of it along with the panels in the shop and house all with top grade
materials and done properly. No inspections here though as I'm outside
city limits.

Pete C.

I'm outside city limits too, but for me the dangers of bad electrical work
are too dire to not have the inspector brought in. At least I don't have to
pay for a permit - all I'm doing is updating existing circuits.

Eigenvector wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message
oups.com...

Eigenvector wrote:

So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping
the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and
add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires
to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to
unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about
4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare
wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the
neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is
done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of
the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No
need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.


That was pretty common "in the day". They also used T-taps to add
wires
http://www.tpub.com/content/construc.../14027_123.htm
Wait until you find some of those babies.


I can't believe they would have endorsed something like that. Wouldn't it
have been far easier to simply twist the wires together with a wire nut?
Not being an electrician, that's what I would have done. If I was really
concerned about it I would have taped the nut to the wire insulation to seal
the connection.


Notice in the link, from a Navy electricians manual of unknow vintage,
the splice is soldered. A soldered tap splice like that was standard and
safe in knob and tube wiring. Open splices were never standard with
Romex. Connections, after knob and tube, had to be made in accessible
boxes. Wire nuts didn't exist for knob and tube. Soldering was still
used after connections were required to be in boxes.

The tap was probably made in an existing running wire where you couldn't
cut the wire and just resplice it with wire nuts adding the light.

--bud--

Other than the fact that it was "...loosely wrapped", there nothing wrong
with this as a temporary fixture.
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and
add an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the
wires to make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to
unwind the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original
installer simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of
insulation - about 4 inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket
around the bare wire - and covered it with electricians tape. The same
was done with the neutral wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he
simply removed the insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand
type, was only losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is
done, all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and
that'd be all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.

Eigenvector wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message
oups.com...

Eigenvector wrote:
So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping
the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and
add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires
to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to
unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about
4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare
wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the
neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is
done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of
the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No
need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.


That was pretty common "in the day". They also used T-taps to add
wires
http://www.tpub.com/content/construc.../14027_123.htm
Wait until you find some of those babies.

I can't believe they would have endorsed something like that. Wouldn't it
have been far easier to simply twist the wires together with a wire nut?
Not being an electrician, that's what I would have done. If I was really
concerned about it I would have taped the nut to the wire insulation to seal
the connection.

That type of junction was considered a good practice back in "the day"
before standards evolved to what they are today. Back in the days of
"friction tape" (anyone remember that stuff). I believe back then that
cuts/splices/junctions were considered bad and should be avoided to the
point possible.

The T was also used for communications lines, like phone lines, so you
could work without breaking the circuit. You could wire it "hot", if
need be. That's always fun.

They also used to have a "Western Union" connects for when stress or
strain was going to be on a junction. Think about that one for a
while.

Things like that worked really well. Here you are working on circuits
that are approaching 100 years old and they are fine, the junctions are
good, etc. etc. Let's hope wire nuts stand up that well.

Eigenvector wrote:
So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about 4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.

Maybe the guy was used to working on new construction, where this is
often done for temporary lighting? Either way, it's not code.

Somewhat related but not as dangerous, I have found in my old house
several instances where two switches share a wall box. It seems that
it must have been common practice to take the "hot" wire, strip about
3/4" or so of insulation, and wrap it around the terminal on one
switch, then terminate the end of the wire at the other switch. Not
sure why this was done, perhaps large size wire nuts were not available
at the time? (late 40's) apparently wire nuts were available as I have
found several that appear to be original splicing the neutrals
together. In cases where I have found switches arranged as I describe
above, I have replaced this setup with a pigtail of new wire and a red
or yellow wire nut as appropriate.

nate

Friends home had fire, little insurance. I was demoing a wall and found
a romex line running between floors joined about halfg way with a knot
and wirenuts, it was hanging in the wall. no box no nothing...

yes sir short on wire just tie a knot

found most romex wasnt anchored to box at all, house filled with K&T
some visibly singed and connecftions and solder melted. electrician had
been there earlier supposedly safetied things. homeowner touched wall
and sparks flew. seems someone had papered over box she had lived there
for years and didnt know a box was there.someone blew in cellouse in
cavities with K&T the list was endless..

I installed a temporary service to all 3 floors with one master light
switch and plenty of outlets on 4 20 amp breakers and cut everything
else clear...... I cut the wires off short so no bozo would reconnect
them! homeowner kept saying well reuse this. here I will clean this box
so it can be used, straighten this romex cant you use it over there?(

by this time the homeowner had fired the fire restoration copany, what
a ripoff.

Homeowner had home COMPLETELY professionally it still amazes me the
hoiuse fire and its 130K in damage wasnt started by wiring, a cat
knocked over a lamp

N8N spake thus:

Somewhat related but not as dangerous, I have found in my old house
several instances where two switches share a wall box. It seems that
it must have been common practice to take the "hot" wire, strip about
3/4" or so of insulation, and wrap it around the terminal on one
switch, then terminate the end of the wire at the other switch. Not
sure why this was done, perhaps large size wire nuts were not available
at the time? (late 40's) apparently wire nuts were available as I have
found several that appear to be original splicing the neutrals
together. In cases where I have found switches arranged as I describe
above, I have replaced this setup with a pigtail of new wire and a red
or yellow wire nut as appropriate.

Why?

Assuming everything is in good condition--no loose insulation, loose
wire strands, etc.--what's wrong with this method? I probably wouldn't
use it for new wiring, but it's perfectly safe.


--
Just as McDonald's is where you go when you're hungry but don't really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
you're curious but don't really care about the quality of your knowledge.

- Matthew White's WikiWatch (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

David Nebenzahl wrote:
N8N spake thus:

Somewhat related but not as dangerous, I have found in my old house
several instances where two switches share a wall box. It seems that
it must have been common practice to take the "hot" wire, strip about
3/4" or so of insulation, and wrap it around the terminal on one
switch, then terminate the end of the wire at the other switch. Not
sure why this was done, perhaps large size wire nuts were not available
at the time? (late 40's) apparently wire nuts were available as I have
found several that appear to be original splicing the neutrals
together. In cases where I have found switches arranged as I describe
above, I have replaced this setup with a pigtail of new wire and a red
or yellow wire nut as appropriate.

Why?

Assuming everything is in good condition--no loose insulation, loose
wire strands, etc.--what's wrong with this method? I probably wouldn't
use it for new wiring, but it's perfectly safe.

Because I am systematically going through and replacing all of the
receptacles in the house, because a significant number of them don't
hold a plug securely and/or show sogns of cracking or burning. I
realize that has absolutely zip to do with switches, but when I
explained this to She Who Must Be Obeyed, she expressed a preference
for white receptacles and plates, so all of the switches are getting
replaced as well. Since this is 60-year-old cloth covered wire, I
figured that adding pigtails so the next time I need to poke around in
that box I'm not flexing the cloth covered wiring might prevent future
issues.

In SWMBO's defense, the previous devices were a schizophrenic mix of
ivory and brown and nothing basically matched, and the white does look
better against the walls in the house which are basically very lightly
tinted pure white. (one room is pure white with a faint green tint,
another is a faint blue tint, etc... I would have never thought to
paint a house like this, the previous owners picked the colors and I
have to say it does maintain an open, airy feel which is important with
small rooms without falling into the trap of painting everything
"rental white.")

nate

Pete C. wrote:
Eigenvector wrote:

So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping the
romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing and add
an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped the wires to
make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to unwind
the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about 4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is done,
all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and that'd be
all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of the
reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No need
to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.

A previous owner of my current house did some similar "quality" work. He
happened to work for the electric utility too, kinda figures they
wouldn't have a clue how to wire a house. I've replaced pretty much all
of it along with the panels in the shop and house all with top grade
materials and done properly. No inspections here though as I'm outside
city limits.

Pete C.

I've already bored everybody with the tale of how I discovered that the
BX cable shield was attached to the hot wire in a previous rental. My
current house has the basement lights all daisy chained; the switch
goes to one light socket with an outlet in the side, which has a piece
of romex attached to a plug plugged in that runs to another light
socket with an outlet in the side, etc..... My question is, wouldn't it
have been easier to wire all the romex to the light socket screws even
in daisy chain formation, rather than have to attach them all to plugs?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Friends home had fire, little insurance. I was demoing a wall and found
a romex line running between floors joined about halfg way with a knot
and wirenuts, it was hanging in the wall. no box no nothing...

yes sir short on wire just tie a knot

Chuckle. Found one of those in the bathroom in this place when I rewired it,
running to the GFCI near the sink. Butt splices, not wire nuts. Ungrounded
and switched to boot. I managed to steal grounded power from a bedroom
outlet in the same wall to power the GFCI, so the outlet is actually hot
with the lights out now. The ungrounded string now just feeds the vanity
lights, since there was no painless way to string switched power to it.

aem sends...

"Craven Morehead" wrote in message
.. .
Other than the fact that it was "...loosely wrapped", there nothing wrong
with this as a temporary fixture.

To me that's like saying, "nothing wrong with this car, other than the
faulty brakes" Besides, 40 years is a little long to be considered
temporary. But I wouldn't expect you to know the history of my house, so
it's no big thing.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
So me and my wiring instructor buddy are down in the basement clipping
the romex that powers the basement. I'm about to rewire the whole thing
and add an additional circuit - so we shut off the breaker and clipped
the wires to make demolition easier.

Anyway we get to one notorious section of my basement where the empty but
powered light sockets hang down from the splice in the wire. My buddy is
curious about how the splice was done, and taking a knife proceeds to
unwind the electricians tape from the splice. Turns out the original
installer simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of
insulation - about 4 inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket
around the bare wire - and covered it with electricians tape. The same
was done with the neutral wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he
simply removed the insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire,
strand type, was only losely wound around the bare copper wire.

He did suspend the wire from the wall by using a bent finishing nail (and
nicked the Romex in the process). I'll be grateful when the rewire is
done, all it would take is for one spider to call that place home and
that'd be all she wrote.

I guess this is why the inspection process is so important, and one of
the reasons why I'm having mine inspected before closing up the wall. No
need to leave the next owner a ticking time bomb.

According to N8N :

Somewhat related but not as dangerous, I have found in my old house
several instances where two switches share a wall box. It seems that
it must have been common practice to take the "hot" wire, strip about
3/4" or so of insulation, and wrap it around the terminal on one
switch, then terminate the end of the wire at the other switch. Not
sure why this was done, perhaps large size wire nuts were not available
at the time?

To clarify: someone grabbed the insulation with the cutters at
one point, slide the insulation down 3/4", and then stripped the
end too. Giving two bare points on the wire. Right?

It's done because it reduces the number of connections, and makes
the wiring in the box more compact. If you have a good stripper,
it's easier than cutting pigtails, and some electricians use
it routinely.

This technique is still in use, and is mentioned in Knight at least.
It's called out explicitly as an alternate approach to more
classic pigtails using short pieces of wire.

I use it quite frequently - it hugely simplifies multi-gang switch
boxes, and is sufficiently useful to even use it for mundane things like
pigtailing neutrals in mid-string receptacle boxes.

For example, a five-gang switch box with only two wirenuts -
for common ground and neutral, and _none_ on the hot. Even
with the ground wrapped around one box screw in each box of the
gang, and the two big-multi-wire wirenuts for neutral and ground,
the box will seem practically empty.

There's nothing unsafe about it. In fact, by reducing wirenuts
and wire-to-wire connections, it's safer than a separate pigtail.

I'm compliant with all codes on pigtails, and then some. But
I don't actually _use_ short pieces of wire as pigtails.

It's described in the electrical wiring FAQ, where I called this
the "mid-strip" technique.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to N8N :

Somewhat related but not as dangerous, I have found in my old house
several instances where two switches share a wall box. It seems that
it must have been common practice to take the "hot" wire, strip about
3/4" or so of insulation, and wrap it around the terminal on one
switch, then terminate the end of the wire at the other switch. Not
sure why this was done, perhaps large size wire nuts were not available
at the time?

To clarify: someone grabbed the insulation with the cutters at
one point, slide the insulation down 3/4", and then stripped the
end too. Giving two bare points on the wire. Right?

It's done because it reduces the number of connections, and makes
the wiring in the box more compact. If you have a good stripper,
it's easier than cutting pigtails, and some electricians use
it routinely.

It's how I wire my car...

z wrote:


I've already bored everybody with the tale of how I discovered that the
BX cable shield was attached to the hot wire in a previous rental. My
current house has the basement lights all daisy chained; the switch
goes to one light socket with an outlet in the side, which has a piece
of romex attached to a plug plugged in that runs to another light
socket with an outlet in the side, etc..... My question is, wouldn't it
have been easier to wire all the romex to the light socket screws even
in daisy chain formation, rather than have to attach them all to plugs?

I'm sure it would have been much easier and cheaper. I would strongly
suspect that the switch and first light are original to the house. The
additional lights were in all probability added later by someone who
concluded that they could bypass any permits and inspections by adding
only plug-in devices which would be considered outside the scope of the
permanent wiring.

Pete C.

Eigenvector wrote:
Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about 4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

Ev:

Not sure how they do things in eigenspace, and tapping like this is not
proper for cable, but it was really common in K & T, as are pigtail
sockets like that. Odd that they stripped 4"; 1 1/2" would seem more
sensible. With the wire wrapped, soldered, then taped with rubber
and friction tape, K&T tap splices are very secure. That old rubber
tape
is particularly amusing stuff to remove, since it tends to fuse to
itself
in a solid lump. It looks grody put protects quite well.

There's nothing at all wrong with a properly made tap splice, pigtail
splice (twisting the wires "wirenut style") or Western Union splice
in copper wire, soldered, and taped properly. The trouble is that
some people didn't care enough to learn the proper technique and
practice good workmanship. Times change less than we think.

The wire was probably stripped by shaving with a knife. I sometimes
wonder if this method isn't better than using a stripping tool, since
it
leaves only lengthwise scratches on the wire, which would not be a
weak point like the ringing grooves that wire strippers or lineman's
pliers can leave if used improperly. Of course, you can cut into the
wire
if you're careless. Some people can break a cannonball.

Cordially yours:
G P

N8N wrote:
She Who Must Be Obeyed...expressed a preference
for white receptacles and plates, so all of the switches are getting
replaced as well.

N8N:

What IS it with wives and white electrical devices? But that's a
debate I'll never win...I can't even convince her that the advantages
of a room-light switch within reach of the bed would outweigh the
negative aspects of 'looking like a hotel'. Of course she's not the
one who has to get up and switch the light off.

Cordially yours:
G P

In article . com,
wrote:

What IS it with wives and white electrical devices? But that's a
debate I'll never win...I can't even convince her that the advantages
of a room-light switch within reach of the bed would outweigh the
negative aspects of 'looking like a hotel'. Of course she's not the
one who has to get up and switch the light off.

Thats what X-10 controls (and follow-on products) were invented for.

--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

On 31 Oct 2006 09:56:34 -0800, wrote:


N8N wrote:
She Who Must Be Obeyed...expressed a preference
for white receptacles and plates, so all of the switches are getting
replaced as well.

N8N:

What IS it with wives and white electrical devices? But that's a
debate I'll never win...I can't even convince her that the advantages
of a room-light switch within reach of the bed would outweigh the
negative aspects of 'looking like a hotel'. Of course she's not the
one who has to get up and switch the light off.

Cordially yours:
G P

I have a light switch by my bed (as well as at the door), using X10
modules. That was one of the FIRST things I did when moving into this
house.
--
55 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

wrote in message
ps.com...

Eigenvector wrote:
Turns out the original installer
simply stripped a section of the original hot wire of insulation - about
4
inches worth, then wound the hot wire of the socket around the bare
wire -
and covered it with electricians tape. The same was done with the
neutral
wire. Keep in mind, he didn't cut the wire, he simply removed the
insulation (how I don't know). The socket wire, strand type, was only
losely wound around the bare copper wire.

Ev:

Not sure how they do things in eigenspace, and tapping like this is not
proper for cable, but it was really common in K & T, as are pigtail
sockets like that. Odd that they stripped 4"; 1 1/2" would seem more
sensible. With the wire wrapped, soldered, then taped with rubber
and friction tape, K&T tap splices are very secure. That old rubber
tape
is particularly amusing stuff to remove, since it tends to fuse to
itself
in a solid lump. It looks grody put protects quite well.

There's nothing at all wrong with a properly made tap splice, pigtail
splice (twisting the wires "wirenut style") or Western Union splice
in copper wire, soldered, and taped properly. The trouble is that
some people didn't care enough to learn the proper technique and
practice good workmanship. Times change less than we think.

The wire was probably stripped by shaving with a knife. I sometimes
wonder if this method isn't better than using a stripping tool, since
it
leaves only lengthwise scratches on the wire, which would not be a
weak point like the ringing grooves that wire strippers or lineman's
pliers can leave if used improperly. Of course, you can cut into the
wire
if you're careless. Some people can break a cannonball.

I can break cannonballs, just watch me.

Cordially yours:
G P

wrote in message
ups.com...

N8N wrote:
She Who Must Be Obeyed...expressed a preference
for white receptacles and plates, so all of the switches are getting
replaced as well.

N8N:

What IS it with wives and white electrical devices? But that's a
debate I'll never win...I can't even convince her that the advantages
of a room-light switch within reach of the bed would outweigh the
negative aspects of 'looking like a hotel'. Of course she's not the
one who has to get up and switch the light off.

Cordially yours:
G P


I actually like the white switches better, they don't look like they have
been exposed to 40 years of ozone like the off-white ones do. But, then
again I was talked into replacing worn out switches with those flat decor
style switches - I must have been high when that deal went down. God they
look stupid.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:46:00 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...

N8N wrote:
She Who Must Be Obeyed...expressed a preference
for white receptacles and plates, so all of the switches are getting
replaced as well.

N8N:

What IS it with wives and white electrical devices? But that's a
debate I'll never win...I can't even convince her that the advantages
of a room-light switch within reach of the bed would outweigh the
negative aspects of 'looking like a hotel'. Of course she's not the
one who has to get up and switch the light off.

Cordially yours:
G P


I actually like the white switches better, they don't look like they have
been exposed to 40 years of ozone like the off-white ones do. But, then
again I was talked into replacing worn out switches with those flat decor
style switches - I must have been high when that deal went down. God they
look stupid.


I prefer white. Not enough to replace working switches and receptacles
just for that, but I choose white for all replacements. Ivory looks
like it's constantly dirty.

As for the Decora, I see no reason to consider them "looking stupid".
The switches have a larger area, making then easier to use. I see no
advantage for receptacles. I have used them because the receptacles
and switches use the same shape cover plate, making it easier to find
the combination you need (you just might want to put a switch, a
receptacle, and a GFCI in the same 3-gang box).
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:46:00 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...

N8N wrote:
She Who Must Be Obeyed...expressed a preference
for white receptacles and plates, so all of the switches are getting
replaced as well.

N8N:

What IS it with wives and white electrical devices? But that's a
debate I'll never win...I can't even convince her that the advantages
of a room-light switch within reach of the bed would outweigh the
negative aspects of 'looking like a hotel'. Of course she's not the
one who has to get up and switch the light off.

Cordially yours:
G P


I actually like the white switches better, they don't look like they have
been exposed to 40 years of ozone like the off-white ones do. But, then
again I was talked into replacing worn out switches with those flat decor
style switches - I must have been high when that deal went down. God they
look stupid.


I prefer white. Not enough to replace working switches and receptacles
just for that, but I choose white for all replacements. Ivory looks
like it's constantly dirty.

As for the Decora, I see no reason to consider them "looking stupid".
The switches have a larger area, making then easier to use. I see no
advantage for receptacles. I have used them because the receptacles
and switches use the same shape cover plate, making it easier to find
the combination you need (you just might want to put a switch, a
receptacle, and a GFCI in the same 3-gang box).

I agree, that's what I'm using. I actually like the receps better as
well because it seems like every standard recep in the house has the
plastic cracked away around the ground connection like someone was
wiggling the plug to get a good connection and the plastic which is
very thin in that area just gave way.

It'll all be gone soon, in any case. Bought me a couple rolls of Romex
and a fish tape and other assorted supplies last night

nate