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#1
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OFF Topic but Important !
The Venezuela government, run by dictator Chavez, is the sole owner of Citgo
gas company. Sales of products at Citgo stations send money back to Chavez to help him in his vow to bring down our government. Please decide that you will not be shopping at a Citgo station. Why should U.S. citizens who love freedom be financing a dictator who has vowed to take down our government? Alert friends and family; most of them probably don't know that Citgo is owned by the Venezuela government. YOU CAN VERIFY THIS ON THE CITGO WEB PAGE. http://www.citgo.com/AboutCITGO.jsp |
#2
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OFF Topic but Important !
He undoubtedly has dictatorial tendencies. He's also done more for the poor than previous governments- and he's having a good time with Bush. Boycott if you wish. OTOH, I thought about boycotting Lukoil after hearing about the recent killing of Russia's bravest journalist- Putin is a thug, too. As Tom Friedman of the NY Times has been writing(though he's a bit of a late convert), our dependency on oil is unhealthy in a lot of ways. |
#3
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Sev wrote: He undoubtedly has dictatorial tendencies. He's also done more for the poor than previous governments- ... And _most particularly_ his poor (formerly) self... |
#4
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OFF Topic but Important !
Sev wrote:
He undoubtedly has dictatorial tendencies. He's also done more for the poor than previous governments- and he's having a good time with Bush. Boycott if you wish. OTOH, I thought about boycotting Lukoil after hearing about the recent killing of Russia's bravest journalist- Putin is a thug, too. As Tom Friedman of the NY Times has been writing(though he's a bit of a late convert), our dependency on oil is unhealthy in a lot of ways. But Friedman is deranged. There are dozens of web sites debunking his predictions. Heck, even the ombudsman for the NY Times had to publically apologize for Friedman's errors regarding the 2000 election (Friedman himself evidently refused to correct his columns). As for Chavez doing more for the poor than previous governments, that may very well be the problem. The government should get out of the way and let the poor do for themselves. For example, we had over a 100,000 poor, unemployed, Katrina evacuees come to Houston. Today, most of them have jobs. |
#5
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On 13 Oct 2006 06:18:53 -0700, "Sev" wrote:
He undoubtedly has dictatorial tendencies. He's also done more for the poor than previous governments- and he's having a good time with Bush. Boycott if you wish. OTOH, I thought about boycotting Lukoil after hearing about the recent killing of Russia's bravest journalist- Putin is a thug, too. As Tom Friedman of the NY Times has been writing(though he's a bit of a late convert), our dependency on oil is unhealthy in a lot of ways. "Bit of a late convert!" Dass ich nicht lache! Tom Friedman is a phony; a ***ing opportunist. A fellow-traveler of Mr."State of Denial" Bob Woodward. They put up a finger to see which way the wind is blowing, and rush in to capitalize on the latest trend. I remember with disgust a TV documentary Friedman did in which he moans and groans at length over Palestinians having to take the long way around the security fence/wall to get to their school/work. He devotes about 5 throwaway minutes to the Israelis struggling to protect themselves from Palestinian suicide bombers, trained by their terrorist masters to blow themselves up at pizza parlors, shopping malls, religious ceremonies, student dormitories -- anywhere they can kill Jewish civilians. Tfui! Disillusioned |
#6
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"barbarow" wrote in message
news:dBJXg.18414$wE5.11029@trnddc02... The Venezuela government, run by dictator Chavez, is the sole owner of Citgo gas company. Sales of products at Citgo stations send money back to Chavez to help him in his vow to bring down our government. Please decide that you will not be shopping at a Citgo station. Why should U.S. citizens who love freedom be financing a dictator who has vowed to take down our government? Alert friends and family; most of them probably don't know that Citgo is owned by the Venezuela government. YOU CAN VERIFY THIS ON THE CITGO WEB PAGE. http://www.citgo.com/AboutCITGO.jsp I'm not clear on why Chavez bothers you. His speeches are no different than Bush's. "Bring it on!" Remember? He is complicit in the murder of 2712 of our soldiers, while blissfully ignoring the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area, where the real problems lie. Cost of war The totals: 2712 US soldiers, 236 Coalition soldiers, and approximately 43,546 to 48,343 Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq from the beginning of the war and occupation to September 30. 4172 Iraqi police and guardsmen have been killed since January 2005, according to an estimate compiled from news reports. American soldiers killed between September 25-September 30: Corporal Casey L. Mellen, 21, Huachuca City, Arizona | Staff Sergeant Jose A. Lanzarin, 28, Lubbock, Texas | Staff Sergeant Edward C. Reynolds, Jr., 27, Groves, Texas | Private First Class Henry Paul, 24, KoloniaPohnpei, Federated States of Micronesia | Private First Class Christopher T. Riviere, 21, Cooper City, Florida | First Lieutenant James N. Lyons, 28, Rochester, New York | Lance Corporal James Chamroeun, 20, Union City, Georgia | Private First Class Christopher T. Blaney, 19, Winter Park, Florida | Staff Sergeant Scott E. Nisely, 48, Marshalltown, Iowa | Specialist Kampha B. Sourivong, 20, Iowa City, Iowa Sources: US Department of Defense, www.icasualties.org, www.iraqbodycount.net |
#7
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
2712 US soldiers, 236 Coalition soldiers, and approximately 43,546 to 48,343 Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq from the beginning of the war and occupation to September 30. The survey supervised by Johns Hopkins put Iraqi deaths close to 650,000. Nick |
#8
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OFF Topic but Important !
wrote in message
... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: 2712 US soldiers, 236 Coalition soldiers, and approximately 43,546 to 48,343 Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq from the beginning of the war and occupation to September 30. The survey supervised by Johns Hopkins put Iraqi deaths close to 650,000. Nick Right. I totally forgot having listened to a report about that yesterday on the radio: http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/06/10/12.php#11450 |
#9
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"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
: wrote in message ... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: 2712 US soldiers, 236 Coalition soldiers, and approximately 43,546 to 48,343 Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq from the beginning of the war and occupation to September 30. The survey supervised by Johns Hopkins put Iraqi deaths close to 650,000. Nick Right. I totally forgot having listened to a report about that yesterday on the radio: http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/06/10/12.php#11450 As if the liberal Johns Hopkins would get it right.. http://article.nationalreview.com/q/...YzZTA3NzE0M2Zm MmY3MjJkOTc= -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#10
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OFF Topic but Important !
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. . "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in : wrote in message ... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: 2712 US soldiers, 236 Coalition soldiers, and approximately 43,546 to 48,343 Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq from the beginning of the war and occupation to September 30. The survey supervised by Johns Hopkins put Iraqi deaths close to 650,000. Nick Right. I totally forgot having listened to a report about that yesterday on the radio: http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/06/10/12.php#11450 As if the liberal Johns Hopkins would get it right.. http://article.nationalreview.com/q/...YzZTA3NzE0M2Zm MmY3MjJkOTc= Jim Yanik Did you listen to the radio story? |
#11
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OFF Topic but Important !
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
: "barbarow" wrote in message news:dBJXg.18414$wE5.11029@trnddc02... The Venezuela government, run by dictator Chavez, is the sole owner of Citgo gas company. Sales of products at Citgo stations send money back to Chavez to help him in his vow to bring down our government. Please decide that you will not be shopping at a Citgo station. Why should U.S. citizens who love freedom be financing a dictator who has vowed to take down our government? Alert friends and family; most of them probably don't know that Citgo is owned by the Venezuela government. YOU CAN VERIFY THIS ON THE CITGO WEB PAGE. http://www.citgo.com/AboutCITGO.jsp I'm not clear on why Chavez bothers you. His speeches are no different than Bush's. "Bring it on!" Remember? He is complicit in the murder of 2712 of our soldiers, while blissfully ignoring the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area, where the real problems lie. Cost of war The totals: 2712 US soldiers, 236 Coalition soldiers, and approximately 43,546 to 48,343 Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq from the beginning of the war and occupation to September 30. 4172 Iraqi police and guardsmen have been killed since January 2005, according to an estimate compiled from news reports. American soldiers killed between September 25-September 30: Corporal Casey L. Mellen, 21, Huachuca City, Arizona | Staff Sergeant Jose A. Lanzarin, 28, Lubbock, Texas | Staff Sergeant Edward C. Reynolds, Jr., 27, Groves, Texas | Private First Class Henry Paul, 24, KoloniaPohnpei, Federated States of Micronesia | Private First Class Christopher T. Riviere, 21, Cooper City, Florida | First Lieutenant James N. Lyons, 28, Rochester, New York | Lance Corporal James Chamroeun, 20, Union City, Georgia | Private First Class Christopher T. Blaney, 19, Winter Park, Florida | Staff Sergeant Scott E. Nisely, 48, Marshalltown, Iowa | Specialist Kampha B. Sourivong, 20, Iowa City, Iowa Sources: US Department of Defense, www.icasualties.org, www.iraqbodycount.net What would the cost be if a nuke goes off in NYC? -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#12
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OFF Topic but Important !
barbarow wrote: The Venezuela government, run by dictator Chavez, is the sole owner of Citgo gas company. Sales of products at Citgo stations send money back to Chavez to help him in his vow to bring down our government. Please decide that you will not be shopping at a Citgo station. Why should U.S. citizens who love freedom be financing a dictator who has vowed to take down our government? Alert friends and family; most of them probably don't know that Citgo is owned by the Venezuela government. Oil and gas are global commodities. Boycotting a certain brand of gas will affect the producers very little since oil and gas is traded globally at well established prices. A producer has many options for where to sell product. Regardless of my personal opinion that man has the as much right to ridicule and demean Bush as anyone else. Calling him out publicly and threatening boycotts only further publicizes his opinions and gives them more credibility. The U.S. government has chosen to ignore him for these very reasons. |
#13
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OFF Topic but Important !
Lawrence wrote: barbarow wrote: .... Please decide that you will not be shopping at a Citgo station. ... .... Oil and gas are global commodities. Boycotting a certain brand of gas will affect the producers very little since oil and gas is traded globally at well established prices. A producer has many options for where to sell product. ... Well, yes and no...virtually all of Citgo's refining capacity is in the US and their particular variety of crude is unsuited for most other refineries so there isn't really an unlimited global market for their crude. While they could undoubtedly sell refined product elsewhere, it wouldn't be as nearly efficient. (Not that I think a boycott would have much _real_ impact, it's just not possible to implement effectively enough. I'd like (personally, it's not going to happen, and really shouldn't, but it's a nice thought ) to nationalize all Argentine assets in the US. |
#14
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dpb wrote:
MUCH SNPPED ... Well, yes and no...virtually all of Citgo's refining capacity is in the US and their particular variety of crude is unsuited for most other refineries so there isn't really an unlimited global market for their crude. While they could undoubtedly sell refined product elsewhere, it wouldn't be as nearly efficient. (Not that I think a boycott would have much _real_ impact, it's just not possible to implement effectively enough. I'd like (personally, it's not going to happen, and really shouldn't, but it's a nice thought ) to nationalize all Argentine assets in the US. ^^^^^^ Argentine assets? What do Argntine assets have to do with Chavez and Citgpo, pray tell? And while you are busily advocating "nationalizing" foreign assets (isn't that what the US caled "stealing" when castro dd it in Cuba in 1960 - 1964 ?) do understand that the US Constitution requires that yo the taxpayes pay for any asset the government takes. Last i lookd the Constitution as still in force ( well, except for habeus corus and a few bits and pieces here and there tha Bush doesn't like) and I am sure that you are a big supporter of the Constitution. You just love the Second Amendment, right? |
#15
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OFF Topic but Important !
jJim McLaughlin wrote:
Last i lookd the Constitution as still in force ( well, except for habeus corus and a few bits and pieces here and there tha Bush doesn't like) and I am sure that you are a big supporter of the Constitution. You just love the Second Amendment, right? You mean the Article I, Section 9 part that reads: "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." This, of course, seemingly conflicts with the president's Article II powers. But that apparent conflict was sorted out hundreds of years ago; the president's wartime powers trump the habeas corpus restriction. For example, during WW2, we had 511 POW camps in the US, housing some 475,000 of enemy POWs (some even US citizens). Not one had habeas corpus rights. Bottom line: enemy combatants (legal or illegal) don't get habeas corpus rights. I love the 2nd Amendment. I have a disagreement - as do the various appellate courts - about its interpretation. Interestingly, in today's news, I see that a free concealed handgun carry class is being offered to Utah teachers so more of them can carry a concealed handgun in their classrooms. |
#16
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HeyBub wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote: Last i lookd the Constitution as still in force ( well, except for habeus corus and a few bits and pieces here and there tha Bush doesn't like) and I am sure that you are a big supporter of the Constitution. You just love the Second Amendment, right? You mean the Article I, Section 9 part that reads: "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." This, of course, seemingly conflicts with the president's Article II powers. But that apparent conflict was sorted out hundreds of years ago; the president's wartime powers trump the habeas corpus restriction. For example, during WW2, we had 511 POW camps in the US, housing some 475,000 of enemy POWs (some even US citizens). Not one had habeas corpus rights. Problem is that the recent statute purports to eliminate the writ, not merely suspend it. And under the cConstitution you can't eliminate the writ. Further, the writ may only be suspended in case of Invasion or Rbellion. Last I looked there was neither going on. So the legislation is invalid on its face. Further, the legislation purports to apply to everyone -- youtr grandmother, your grandkids, your significant other, and anybody at Gitmpo. When you quote Article I Section 9, take the time to read the legislation in detail and quotre it, too. Be real careful what you wish for, you may get it. Bottom line: enemy combatants (legal or illegal) don't get habeas corpus rights. I love the 2nd Amendment. I have a disagreement - as do the various appellate courts - about its interpretation. Interestingly, in today's news, I see that a free concealed handgun carry class is being offered to Utah teachers so more of them can carry a concealed handgun in their classrooms. |
#17
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OFF Topic but Important !
jJim McLaughlin wrote: dpb wrote: .... ... I'd like (personally, it's not going to happen, and really shouldn't, but it's a nice thought ) to nationalize all Argentine assets in the US. ^^^^^^ Argentine assets? What do Argntine assets have to do with Chavez and Citgpo, pray tell? Nothing other than a brain-cramp from an old fart... And while you are busily advocating "nationalizing" foreign assets .... _IF_ you will actually read what I wrote instead of jumping to a conclusion, you will see that I'm not seriously advocating nationalizing anything as an actual policy, simply saying it would be a fun (and quite effective) way to pull his chain in return...specifically I quote "...not going to happen and really shouldn't..." |
#18
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OFF Topic but Important !
barbarow wrote: .... Please decide that you will not be shopping at a Citgo station. Why should U.S. citizens who love freedom be financing a dictator who has vowed to take down our government? .... OTOH, why should we penalize perfectly well-meaning and innocent US citizens who operate (and many did/have since _long_ before the sale to Argentina) and make _their_ livings with Citgo-branded products when they had absolutely nothing to do with nor any control over the transfer??? |
#19
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OFF Topic but Important !
One might add that Chavez has been very generous in helping folks with
free heating oil in our country which is more than can be said for Bush and his pals. |
#20
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wrote in message
ups.com... One might add that Chavez has been very generous in helping folks with free heating oil in our country which is more than can be said for Bush and his pals. What poor folks? We don't have any poor people here, do we? I don't see them when political fund raising events are shown on TV. :-) |
#21
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OFF Topic but Important !
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:18:52 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: wrote in message oups.com... One might add that Chavez has been very generous in helping folks with free heating oil in our country which is more than can be said for Bush and his pals. What poor folks? We don't have any poor people here, do we? I don't see them when political fund raising events are shown on TV. :-) Yeah, somebody slipped up and let those pictures from the New Orleans temporary concentration camps get on TV. Gave away the ballgame. Aspasia |
#22
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OFF Topic but Important !
All he did was to call a spade a spade. He was correct.
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#23
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#24
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"dpb" wrote in message
ups.com... wrote: One might add that Chavez has been very generous in helping folks with free heating oil ... Not really much at all in the overall scheme of things. A few here and there for the political advantage, not at all motivated by actual humanitarian objectives says the cynic in me... No more of a political stunt than Bush sending out those tax rebate checks at a time when he's spending like a drunken sailor with no end in sight. |
#25
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OFF Topic but Important !
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "dpb" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: One might add that Chavez has been very generous in helping folks with free heating oil ... Not really much at all in the overall scheme of things. A few here and there for the political advantage, not at all motivated by actual humanitarian objectives says the cynic in me... No more of a political stunt than Bush sending out those tax rebate checks at a time when he's spending like a drunken sailor with no end in sight. But certainly no less... OTOH, istr just seeing last quarter's federal tax receipts were highest in history...in spite of (or owing to?) tax cuts. |
#26
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OFF Topic but Important !
Hopefully falling oil prices will send him back to his coca farm.
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#27
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OFF Topic but Important !
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#28
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OFF Topic but Important !
Jim Yanik wrote: wrote in ups.com: One might add that Chavez has been very generous in helping folks with free heating oil ... ISTR that the "poor people" recently turned down Chavez' offer of free oil. Some in Alaska reportedly did that. OTOH, at least one group (in NYC, perhaps?) were reported to have accepted after the church visit. Whether it actually will transpire and how I've not heard any more since the big flap of the day (after the UN)... |
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