Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

In fact I did come across a piece of scrap shingle and it still had
this tape on it. My question is, is there a way to check the shingles
without disturbing the installation job too much to see if tape remains
on a random number of shingles or would it be prudent to contact
someone who actually knows what they're doing to take a look. And if I
do find that the tape has not been removed, what can be done about
that? If all or most of them have to be removed does that mean the
paper beneath them also would have to be replaced?

It wouldn't surprise me to find that they had not removed the tape
because they have already had to come back on three other ocassions to
correct not insignificant oversights in their work, from failing to
replace rotton wood to sloppy installation of fascia to reusing the
aluminum drip edge they had to remove to replace the wood.

Thanks (again) for any suggestions.

On 4 Jul 2006 16:17:59 -0700, "al" wrote:

Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

Concur re importance.

They're supposed to:

1.) Remove the tape.
2.) Properly discard the tape. You aren't supposed to see
any lying around.

In fact I did come across a piece of scrap shingle and it still had
this tape on it. My question is, is there a way to check the shingles
without disturbing the installation job too much to see if tape remains
on a random number of shingles

If you can get to them, you can check. Be very careful with the
ladder, etc. Very, very gently pry up the bottom of a shingle
and lift it just enough to examine underneath. You know what
the tape looks like. I'd consider using a knife blade, but
very carefully.

or would it be prudent to contact
someone who actually knows what they're doing to take a look. And if I
do find that the tape has not been removed, what can be done about
that?

Not certain why they couldn't return and remove the tape
given recent install.

If all or most of them have to be removed does that mean the
paper beneath them also would have to be replaced?

You mean remove the shingles? Shouldn't be necessary.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that they had not removed the tape
because they have already had to come back on three other ocassions to
correct not insignificant oversights in their work, from failing to
replace rotton wood

Did you contract for such replacement?

to sloppy installation of fascia to reusing the
aluminum drip edge they had to remove to replace the wood.

I'm guessing this last is common practice.

Thanks (again) for any suggestions.

I'm guessing they removed most/all of the tape, but it
merits an inspection, followup, as necessary.

Cheers,
Puddin'

I often forget to state the potentially obvious.

If a shingle presents much resistance to being lifted,
it's likely that the tape has been removed and the
sun has bonded it to the shingle underneath.

"Don't Force Them Up" if they present much resistance.
Check some more. If they're all like that, you're
likely OK.

Best,
Puddin'

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:42:39 GMT, Puddin' Man
wrote:

On 4 Jul 2006 16:17:59 -0700, "al" wrote:

Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

Concur re importance.

They're supposed to:

1.) Remove the tape.
2.) Properly discard the tape. You aren't supposed to see
any lying around.

In fact I did come across a piece of scrap shingle and it still had
this tape on it. My question is, is there a way to check the shingles
without disturbing the installation job too much to see if tape remains
on a random number of shingles

If you can get to them, you can check. Be very careful with the
ladder, etc. Very, very gently pry up the bottom of a shingle
and lift it just enough to examine underneath. You know what
the tape looks like. I'd consider using a knife blade, but
very carefully.

or would it be prudent to contact
someone who actually knows what they're doing to take a look. And if I
do find that the tape has not been removed, what can be done about
that?

Not certain why they couldn't return and remove the tape
given recent install.

If all or most of them have to be removed does that mean the
paper beneath them also would have to be replaced?

You mean remove the shingles? Shouldn't be necessary.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that they had not removed the tape
because they have already had to come back on three other ocassions to
correct not insignificant oversights in their work, from failing to
replace rotton wood

Did you contract for such replacement?

to sloppy installation of fascia to reusing the
aluminum drip edge they had to remove to replace the wood.

I'm guessing this last is common practice.

Thanks (again) for any suggestions.

I'm guessing they removed most/all of the tape, but it
merits an inspection, followup, as necessary.

Cheers,
Puddin'

I'd worry more about the residual radioactivity in the shingles. Tom
al wrote:
Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

In fact I did come across a piece of scrap shingle and it still had
this tape on it. My question is, is there a way to check the shingles
without disturbing the installation job too much to see if tape remains
on a random number of shingles or would it be prudent to contact
someone who actually knows what they're doing to take a look. And if I
do find that the tape has not been removed, what can be done about
that? If all or most of them have to be removed does that mean the
paper beneath them also would have to be replaced?

It wouldn't surprise me to find that they had not removed the tape
because they have already had to come back on three other ocassions to
correct not insignificant oversights in their work, from failing to
replace rotton wood to sloppy installation of fascia to reusing the
aluminum drip edge they had to remove to replace the wood.

Thanks (again) for any suggestions.

Puddin' Man wrote:
failing to replace rotton wood

Did you contract for such replacement?

200' were included in the contract. It's been harder than pulling
teeth from the mouth of a hungry croc to get them to replace what they
did replace. When I called them to come back and check some more, the
first piece they checked broke off in the guy's hand...

to sloppy installation of fascia to reusing the
aluminum drip edge they had to remove to replace the wood.

The drip edge was new and had been carelessly pried up leaving it bent
and rippled, on the top.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Thanks very much for the helpful information. Part of the problem down
here is that roofers are overwhelmed with work from last year's
hurricane and they're having a hard time keeping laborers, so many are
inexperienced. I'm aware of this and have been patient with them and
when I've called to complain, I've tried to convey it in such a way
that I'm just pointing out oversights. But when this company, or at
least one of its reps, is confronted with a complaint they (she)
immediately goes into attack mode demonstrating a practiced agility for
misrepresentation.

Anyway, your comments suggest I have less to be concerned about than I
had thought and I appreciate the help.

Thanks again!

In article . com, "al" wrote:
Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

It doesn't matter whether they removed the tape or not -- the tape is there to
keep the shingles from sticking together while bundled from the factory. Once
the shingles are installed on the roof, the tape is irrelevant, because it's
not touching the tar strip anyway.

Consider:

tar strip ----------+
v
shingle ==============
^
tape ---------------+


When installed on the roof:

=====================
tape tar
=======================
tape tar
===========================

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"al" wrote

In fact I did come across a piece of scrap shingle and it still had
this tape on it. My question is, is there a way to check the shingles
without disturbing the installation job too much to see if tape remains
on a random number of shingles or would it be prudent to contact
someone who actually knows what they're doing to take a look. And if I
do find that the tape has not been removed, what can be done about
that?

The tape stays on, it's not supposed to be removed. In fact, the shingle
manufacturers now have printed on the tape "Do not remove". They have
printed this on the tape for many years.

The tape is on there to keep the shingles from sticking together in the
bundles. If the tape were removed b/4 installing, it would be near
impossible to replace shingles. Also, if wind were to catch under shingle
material, in which the shingles were all stuck together, it would be very
likely to rip off the entire roof, instead of pieces.

Don't mess with factory installation procedures, you will void the
warranty.

al wrote:
Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

In fact I did come across a piece of scrap shingle and it still had
this tape on it. My question is, is there a way to check the shingles
without disturbing the installation job too much to see if tape remains
on a random number of shingles or would it be prudent to contact
someone who actually knows what they're doing to take a look. And if I
do find that the tape has not been removed, what can be done about
that? If all or most of them have to be removed does that mean the
paper beneath them also would have to be replaced?

It wouldn't surprise me to find that they had not removed the tape
because they have already had to come back on three other ocassions to
correct not insignificant oversights in their work, from failing to
replace rotton wood to sloppy installation of fascia to reusing the
aluminum drip edge they had to remove to replace the wood.

Thanks (again) for any suggestions.

Look at the package instructions, or ck. the mfg. website. The
instructions for our shingles say that it is not necessary to remove the
strip. We had problems with our roof, Elk Prestique Plus (in FL) which
were due mainly to poor nailing, but also poor choice of shingle for our
roof. We have steep mansards on our roof, and after all was said and
done, our city changed code requirements for masards so that now an
adhesive is required under each tab on mansard roofs. Also installed in
winter, not optimum. After lots of callbacks they have finally quit
falling off. 40 yr.

Sorry, "Moises", but if the tape were removed, replacement issues would
be unaffected. As for "messing with factory installation procedures"
though, I'll concur. Tom
Moisés Nacio wrote:
The tape stays on, it's not supposed to be removed. In fact, the
shingle
manufacturers now have printed on the tape "Do not remove". They have
printed this on the tape for many years.

The tape is on there to keep the shingles from sticking together in the
bundles. If the tape were removed b/4 installing, it would be near
impossible to replace shingles. Also, if wind were to catch under shingle
material, in which the shingles were all stuck together, it would be very
likely to rip off the entire roof, instead of pieces.

Don't mess with factory installation procedures, you will void the
warranty.

Puddin' Man wrote:
On 4 Jul 2006 16:17:59 -0700, "al" wrote:

Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

Concur re importance.

They're supposed to:

1.) Remove the tape.
2.) Properly discard the tape. You aren't supposed to see
any lying around.

Totally wrong. Just check the instructions on the bundle wrappers.
Removing the tape is contrary to the installation instructions.

snip remainder


Harry K

Harry K wrote:

Removing the tape is contrary to the installation instructions.
Harry K

So if I'm understanding this now, the tar strip on the bottom of the
shingle on which the tape is applied is really just a "residual"
artifact from the application of the strip on the top. The tar strip
on the bottom obviously has no purpose or it wouldn't be covered,
whereas the thin strip on the top is functional. Is that about right?

On 4 Jul 2006 19:17:40 -0700, "tom" wrote:

Sorry, "Moises", but if the tape were removed, replacement issues would
be unaffected.

You are so wrong.

On 4 Jul 2006 19:43:31 -0700, "Harry K"
wrote:


Puddin' Man wrote:
On 4 Jul 2006 16:17:59 -0700, "al" wrote:

Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

Concur re importance.

They're supposed to:

1.) Remove the tape.
2.) Properly discard the tape. You aren't supposed to see
any lying around.

Totally wrong. Just check the instructions on the bundle wrappers.
Removing the tape is contrary to the installation instructions.

OK. If I (and the OP and his neighbor) were "wrong" about removing the
tape, then I cry "Mia Culpa"!

But I've seen construction industry manufacturers etc include all
manner of strange, weird, and sometimes flat-out crazy stuff in
their instructions ...

So I gotta ask the shingle-cognoscenti some simple questions:

1.) Why do they put the tar strip on the bottom of the shingle
(if not to allow bonding with other shingles on install)?

2.) Given that the plastic tape over the tar strip is to
prevent bonding -prior- to install, why wouldn't one
remove the tape -at- install time to promote bonding???

Is not my impression that shingles are designed to flap in
the wind. Is my impression that they are designed to fasten
to the outer roof -and- to bond together.

Puddin'

Puddin' Man wrote:
snip
Totally wrong. Just check the instructions on the bundle wrappers.
Removing the tape is contrary to the installation instructions.

Absolutely.

OK. If I (and the OP and his neighbor) were "wrong" about removing the
tape, then I cry "Mia Culpa"!

But I've seen construction industry manufacturers etc include all
manner of strange, weird, and sometimes flat-out crazy stuff in
their instructions ...

So I gotta ask the shingle-cognoscenti some simple questions:

1.) Why do they put the tar strip on the bottom of the shingle
(if not to allow bonding with other shingles on install)?

They don't put the tar strip on the bottom, they put it half way up just
over where the tabs are joined together.

2.) Given that the plastic tape over the tar strip is to
prevent bonding -prior- to install, why wouldn't one
remove the tape -at- install time to promote bonding???

Becuase the plastic strip is also in the middle of the shingle, so that
when they're stacked neatly, but you don't apply them to the roof like
that, you spread them out, and the tar strip then is hitting a place on
the shingle where the plastic ain't and you get fine adhesion.

Is not my impression that shingles are designed to flap in
the wind. Is my impression that they are designed to fasten
to the outer roof -and- to bond together.

Correct, and unless you apply them to the roof with a 1" reveal or less,
you're going to get that adhesion. The only exception to that would be if
the pitch is so steep that you don't have enough pressure on the seal
strips in which case the mfg recomends applying adhesive.

Removing the plastic strips is both a waste of time and possibly going to
damage the shingles as they're not designed to have that part removed.



John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Mean People Suck - It takes two deviations to get cool.
Ask me about joining the NRA.

al wrote:
Harry K wrote:

Removing the tape is contrary to the installation instructions.
Harry K

So if I'm understanding this now, the tar strip on the bottom of the
shingle on which the tape is applied is really just a "residual"
artifact from the application of the strip on the top. The tar strip
on the bottom obviously has no purpose or it wouldn't be covered,
whereas the thin strip on the top is functional. Is that about right?

I don't follow that. There is only one tar strip on a shingle, on the
top side. I just gave away all my leftovers to my neighbor so I can't
play around with them. I think someone else in this thread made a
diagram.

Bottom line is that the manufacturer says not to remove them.

Harry K

Mea Culpa. I should've reviewed shingle construction and
application before responding.

Puddin'

On 05 Jul 2006 14:37:59 GMT, wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:
snip
Totally wrong. Just check the instructions on the bundle wrappers.
Removing the tape is contrary to the installation instructions.

Absolutely.

OK. If I (and the OP and his neighbor) were "wrong" about removing the
tape, then I cry "Mia Culpa"!

But I've seen construction industry manufacturers etc include all
manner of strange, weird, and sometimes flat-out crazy stuff in
their instructions ...

So I gotta ask the shingle-cognoscenti some simple questions:

1.) Why do they put the tar strip on the bottom of the shingle
(if not to allow bonding with other shingles on install)?

They don't put the tar strip on the bottom, they put it half way up just
over where the tabs are joined together.

2.) Given that the plastic tape over the tar strip is to
prevent bonding -prior- to install, why wouldn't one
remove the tape -at- install time to promote bonding???

Becuase the plastic strip is also in the middle of the shingle, so that
when they're stacked neatly, but you don't apply them to the roof like
that, you spread them out, and the tar strip then is hitting a place on
the shingle where the plastic ain't and you get fine adhesion.

Is not my impression that shingles are designed to flap in
the wind. Is my impression that they are designed to fasten
to the outer roof -and- to bond together.

Correct, and unless you apply them to the roof with a 1" reveal or less,
you're going to get that adhesion. The only exception to that would be if
the pitch is so steep that you don't have enough pressure on the seal
strips in which case the mfg recomends applying adhesive.

Removing the plastic strips is both a waste of time and possibly going to
damage the shingles as they're not designed to have that part removed.



John

Harry K wrote:

There is only one tar strip on a shingle, on the
top side.

So the black strip on the bottom which the tape covers is not tar then.
Just a strip of something black that will allow the tape to adhere to
the shingle, to keep them from sticking when bundled. My mistake in
thinking that that "stuff" is tar.

Thanks to everyone for clearing this up.

"tom" wrote
Sorry, "Moises", but if the tape were removed, replacement issues would
be unaffected.

Absolutely incorrect.

I had over 30 years of hands on experience in construction, with an
emphasis in trouble shooting leaks & custom roof flashing. I do believe I
corrected more jobs, than the average tradesman would ever believe is
possible.

In article .com, "al" wrote:

Harry K wrote:

There is only one tar strip on a shingle, on the
top side.

So the black strip on the bottom which the tape covers is not tar then.
Just a strip of something black that will allow the tape to adhere to
the shingle, to keep them from sticking when bundled.

Yep, you got it.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Well, you've got maybe 10 years on me, and I also did just that; Fixed
other roofers' mistakes. Will you please explain to me the effect that
removing the release tape has on shingle removal? Tom
Moisés Nacio wrote:
"tom" wrote
Sorry, "Moises", but if the tape were removed, replacement issues would
be unaffected.

Absolutely incorrect.

I had over 30 years of hands on experience in construction, with an
emphasis in trouble shooting leaks & custom roof flashing. I do believe I
corrected more jobs, than the average tradesman would ever believe is
possible.

Yes, the manufacturer does print "Do not remove" on the release film,
but they could just as well print "Need not remove". You're right about
the film preventing the shingles from sticking together while in the
bundle, but I don't follow your reasoning later on in your post
regarding replacement. Or the wind issue, either. This myth has been
beaten to death all over this forum, anyway. Tom
Moisés Nacio wrote:
The tape stays on, it's not supposed to be removed. In fact, the
shingle
manufacturers now have printed on the tape "Do not remove". They have
printed this on the tape for many years.

The tape is on there to keep the shingles from sticking together in the
bundles. If the tape were removed b/4 installing, it would be near
impossible to replace shingles. Also, if wind were to catch under shingle
material, in which the shingles were all stuck together, it would be very
likely to rip off the entire roof, instead of pieces.

Don't mess with factory installation procedures, you will void the
warranty.

"tom" wrote
Well, you've got maybe 10 years on me, and I also did just that; Fixed
other roofers' mistakes. Will you please explain to me the effect that
removing the release tape has on shingle removal? Tom

Tom,

I'm not going into great detail, but the tidbits I list, all have a bearing
on the end result.

You may or may not know, major manufacturers, manufacture covering for
different regions. Usually about half a dozen regions in the United States.
There's not one shingle that is formulated/manufactured to be used across
the entire country, by any major manufacturer. Although, I know of one that
breaks down the USA into 3 regions.

One manufacture in particular, has a huge problem of keeping their product
straight for packaging. You probably ran across this one in your time,
where shingles are stuck together, simply because the product wasn't
straight when it was packaged.

Quality control fluctuates even in ISO certified conditions.

The adhesive put on the back on the covering for the release tape also will
fluctuate, once in awhile there are excessive amounts beyond the amount
called in the specifications to keep the release tape on, more often than
not, this seems like a normal amount.

For the average 3 tab 12x36 shingle, installed for average pitch/climate
conditions, there will be 8 nails in it. As you know, you must remove the
nails from the shingle/s above and adjoining the deficient shingle. You
also must break the tar _seal_ with a flat bar, which is best done with the
covering cool. Now, if the release tape has been removed, and the adhesive
was excessive either by intention or by fluctuation, you now have another
area which has sealed. The problem is, you must get the flat bar under a
full 7" or 2" above the keyway. Problem is, if this is done when it is
cool, and the covering has lost flexibility to where you can't bend tabs
without breaking, it creates an additional barrier in which you must work
around. I won't even go into the problem of replacements when the covering
is hot, and adhesive is sticky.

Manufacturers spend millions of dollars for design, although some spend
more in advertising than in product design. When you see the product is
manufactured with tolerances of +/- 1/4", it is the manufacture who spent
on advertising, instead of design.

A quality roofing product is designed so the entire roof doesn't come off
in highwinds, of course there is only so much of a guarantee the
manufacturer can be liable for.

I did a lot of work in my days, in tornado alley. I seen some installers
trying experiments on structures, selling it as snake oil. I've worked on
countless structures, where removal of release tape caused problems.

You of course, apparently never ran into a problem when the release tape
had been removed. I find that interesting.

Moisés Nacio wrote:
"tom" wrote
Well, you've got maybe 10 years on me, and I also did just that; Fixed
other roofers' mistakes. Will you please explain to me the effect that
removing the release tape has on shingle removal? Tom

Tom,

I'm not going into great detail, but the tidbits I list, all have a bearing
on the end result.

You may or may not know, major manufacturers, manufacture covering for
different regions. Usually about half a dozen regions in the United States.
There's not one shingle that is formulated/manufactured to be used across
the entire country, by any major manufacturer. Although, I know of one that
breaks down the USA into 3 regions.

One manufacture in particular, has a huge problem of keeping their product
straight for packaging. You probably ran across this one in your time,
where shingles are stuck together, simply because the product wasn't
straight when it was packaged.

Quality control fluctuates even in ISO certified conditions.

The adhesive put on the back on the covering for the release tape also will
fluctuate, once in awhile there are excessive amounts beyond the amount
called in the specifications to keep the release tape on, more often than
not, this seems like a normal amount.

For the average 3 tab 12x36 shingle, installed for average pitch/climate
conditions, there will be 8 nails in it. As you know, you must remove the
nails from the shingle/s above and adjoining the deficient shingle. You
also must break the tar _seal_ with a flat bar, which is best done with the
covering cool. Now, if the release tape has been removed, and the adhesive
was excessive either by intention or by fluctuation, you now have another
area which has sealed. The problem is, you must get the flat bar under a
full 7" or 2" above the keyway. Problem is, if this is done when it is
cool, and the covering has lost flexibility to where you can't bend tabs
without breaking, it creates an additional barrier in which you must work
around. I won't even go into the problem of replacements when the covering
is hot, and adhesive is sticky.

Manufacturers spend millions of dollars for design, although some spend
more in advertising than in product design. When you see the product is
manufactured with tolerances of +/- 1/4", it is the manufacture who spent
on advertising, instead of design.

A quality roofing product is designed so the entire roof doesn't come off
in highwinds, of course there is only so much of a guarantee the
manufacturer can be liable for.

I did a lot of work in my days, in tornado alley. I seen some installers
trying experiments on structures, selling it as snake oil. I've worked on
countless structures, where removal of release tape caused problems.

You of course, apparently never ran into a problem when the release tape
had been removed. I find that interesting.

Sorta sticking my nose in here.

Wouldn't there be a warrantee problem were it removed? The tape says
'do not remove', it is removed, the roof fails, the manufacturer says
'not installed per spec'.

Harry K

It's nice to hear from a roofer who's erudite. You've explained your
reasoning well. I've had my share of difficult tear-offs, especially
when I'd wanted to be kind to the neighboring shingles, but doesn't it
seem that the instance you've given is more of an exception than the
rule? I roofed in my home state of Michigan for 20+ years, before
"retiring" to AZ. Granted, "Tornado Alley" it wasn't. Get this: Here in
AZ, the roofing suppliers have _never_even_heard_of step flashing! I
have to cut and bend my own. It appears that roofers here just goop it
to the wall!!! One can make a pretty good living off most of the
roofers of today. Tom
Moisés Nacio wrote:
Tom,

I'm not going into great detail, but the tidbits I list, all have a bearing
on the end result.

You may or may not know, major manufacturers, manufacture covering for
different regions. Usually about half a dozen regions in the United States.
There's not one shingle that is formulated/manufactured to be used across
the entire country, by any major manufacturer. Although, I know of one that
breaks down the USA into 3 regions.

One manufacture in particular, has a huge problem of keeping their product
straight for packaging. You probably ran across this one in your time,
where shingles are stuck together, simply because the product wasn't
straight when it was packaged.

Quality control fluctuates even in ISO certified conditions.

The adhesive put on the back on the covering for the release tape also will
fluctuate, once in awhile there are excessive amounts beyond the amount
called in the specifications to keep the release tape on, more often than
not, this seems like a normal amount.

For the average 3 tab 12x36 shingle, installed for average pitch/climate
conditions, there will be 8 nails in it. As you know, you must remove the
nails from the shingle/s above and adjoining the deficient shingle. You
also must break the tar _seal_ with a flat bar, which is best done with the
covering cool. Now, if the release tape has been removed, and the adhesive
was excessive either by intention or by fluctuation, you now have another
area which has sealed. The problem is, you must get the flat bar under a
full 7" or 2" above the keyway. Problem is, if this is done when it is
cool, and the covering has lost flexibility to where you can't bend tabs
without breaking, it creates an additional barrier in which you must work
around. I won't even go into the problem of replacements when the covering
is hot, and adhesive is sticky.

Manufacturers spend millions of dollars for design, although some spend
more in advertising than in product design. When you see the product is
manufactured with tolerances of +/- 1/4", it is the manufacture who spent
on advertising, instead of design.

A quality roofing product is designed so the entire roof doesn't come off
in highwinds, of course there is only so much of a guarantee the
manufacturer can be liable for.

I did a lot of work in my days, in tornado alley. I seen some installers
trying experiments on structures, selling it as snake oil. I've worked on
countless structures, where removal of release tape caused problems.

You of course, apparently never ran into a problem when the release tape
had been removed. I find that interesting.

I'd have a problem with that kind of picayune response from a
manufacturer. Tom
Harry K wrote:
Sorta sticking my nose in here.

Wouldn't there be a warrantee problem were it removed? The tape says
'do not remove', it is removed, the roof fails, the manufacturer says
'not installed per spec'.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message

Wouldn't there be a warrantee problem were it removed? The tape says
'do not remove', it is removed, the roof fails, the manufacturer says
'not installed per spec'.

Harry,

Technically, when the product specifies "do not remove", I would say yes.
But, I never ran across a scenario where the manufacturer was involved in
such a instance. Most of the roofs I'd seen, where the release tape was
removed, and considerable covering was literally peeled and rolled, the
insurance companies were involved to cover the damage.

"tom" wrote
Get this: Here in
AZ, the roofing suppliers have _never_even_heard_of step flashing! I
have to cut and bend my own. It appears that roofers here just goop it
to the wall!!! One can make a pretty good living off most of the
roofers of today.

I'm not surprised.

Truthfully, I miss all the brake work I did. I took a lot of pride in my
bends, most people wouldn't even notice. To me, it was like an art.

Those days are gone, but not forgotten.

It is an art. Tom
Moisés Nacio wrote:
"tom" wrote
Get this: Here in
AZ, the roofing suppliers have _never_even_heard_of step flashing! I
have to cut and bend my own. It appears that roofers here just goop it
to the wall!!! One can make a pretty good living off most of the
roofers of today.

I'm not surprised.

Truthfully, I miss all the brake work I did. I took a lot of pride in my
bends, most people wouldn't even notice. To me, it was like an art.

Those days are gone, but not forgotten.

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:13:02 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Moisés Nacio" quickly quoth:


"tom" wrote
Get this: Here in
AZ, the roofing suppliers have _never_even_heard_of step flashing! I
have to cut and bend my own. It appears that roofers here just goop it
to the wall!!! One can make a pretty good living off most of the
roofers of today.

I'm not surprised.

Truthfully, I miss all the brake work I did. I took a lot of pride in my
bends, most people wouldn't even notice. To me, it was like an art.

Those days are gone, but not forgotten.

I watched a This Old House Classic a few months back and a guy was
fabbing and installing copper roof flashing. He had an aluminum brake
that was portable, but it was 10 or 12 feet long.
Google "tapco" for all sorts of cool tools.

--
************************************************** *********
"Boy, I feel safer now that Martha Stewart is behind bars!
O.J. is walking around free, Osama Bin Laden too, but they
take the one woman in America willing to cook and clean
and work in the yard and haul her ass to jail."
--Tim Allen
************************************************** *********

I came across some of this "release film" working in the yard
yesterday, so I emailed GAF to inquire about this issue with respect to
their Royal Sovereign shingles and here is the main text of their
response:

"Thank you for your inquiry.

I have attached a Technical Bulletin regarding the release film on
shingles.

As the bulletin indicates, it is not necessary to remove this film.
The film strips you see in your yard could possible be from the old
shingles that were removed. If by some chance these are film strips
from the new shingles, no harm is done.

If you have any questions, please contact us."

"al" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just had a new roof completed the other day and a neighbor commented
this afternoon that there aren't any pieces of tape scattered around
the yard. He says shingles have a piece of cellaphane tape covering a
strip of tar or something that serves as an adhesive so the shingles
stay put. He said that sometimes roofers neglect to remove the tape
which makes the shingles vulnerable to wind damage and that if it ahd
been removed it would be scattered around the lawn. Living in S.
Florida with the threat of hurricanes, this additional adhesive would
be important.

In fact I did come across a piece of scrap shingle and it still had
this tape on it. My question is, is there a way to check the shingles
without disturbing the installation job too much to see if tape remains
on a random number of shingles or would it be prudent to contact
someone who actually knows what they're doing to take a look. And if I
do find that the tape has not been removed, what can be done about
that? If all or most of them have to be removed does that mean the
paper beneath them also would have to be replaced?

It wouldn't surprise me to find that they had not removed the tape
because they have already had to come back on three other ocassions to
correct not insignificant oversights in their work, from failing to
replace rotton wood to sloppy installation of fascia to reusing the
aluminum drip edge they had to remove to replace the wood.

Thanks (again) for any suggestions.

No there is no need to remove the tape, Well almost none, If it is left on
the gable end pieces it can rattle in the wind.

al wrote:
Harry K wrote:

Removing the tape is contrary to the installation instructions.
Harry K

So if I'm understanding this now, the tar strip on the bottom of the
shingle on which the tape is applied is really just a "residual"
artifact from the application of the strip on the top. The tar strip
on the bottom obviously has no purpose or it wouldn't be covered,
whereas the thin strip on the top is functional. Is that about right?

The asphalt strip is covered with a thin cellophane layer to protect
the shingles from adhering to each other during shipment and storage.
When a roof gets hot from the sun some of the tar melts out and adheres
to the shingle below it. A little asphalt goes a long ways. Removing
the cellophane is not neccesary. When shingles first came out, a roofer
would have to add a small splatering of tare under each shingle. This
was very time consuming and a real pain. It did'nt take long to figure
out they could pre-apply the asphalt, but needed the cellophane to
protect the shingles from sticking to each other for shipment and
storage. Hope this helps.
Neighbors helping neighbors at localhandyhelpers.com