I have lived in my house for 4 years now, however the house is 14 years
old, and haven't had any flooding problems until this week. There
has been several inches of rain dropped on our area the past 5 days.
Well of course our sump pump stopped working. I went into the
basement one day and found that it was starting to get wet. Within 1
hour I had 2 inches of water covering the floor. Then we realized the
sump pump was not working. When we called insurance they sent over an
engineer who looked around for 10 minutes and left. The next day I
got a call saying that our water came up from the cement and we
wouldn't be covered. They then told me that there wouldn't be that
much water from a sump pump not working. Could this be true??? It
really came so fast and there are not wet walls to indicate it came in
from the walls and now that the carpet is up there are no cracks in the
cement. Can it really come up throught the pores of the cement that
fast to cause that type of damage?? And does a not working sump pump
truly cause no damage??? They told me that the sump pump not working
wouldn't cause that type of damage. HELP!!!

"jcmilla" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have lived in my house for 4 years now, however the house is 14 years
old, and haven't had any flooding problems until this week. There
has been several inches of rain dropped on our area the past 5 days.
Well of course our sump pump stopped working. I went into the
basement one day and found that it was starting to get wet. Within 1
hour I had 2 inches of water covering the floor. Then we realized the
sump pump was not working. When we called insurance they sent over an
engineer who looked around for 10 minutes and left. The next day I
got a call saying that our water came up from the cement and we
wouldn't be covered. They then told me that there wouldn't be that
much water from a sump pump not working. Could this be true??? It
really came so fast and there are not wet walls to indicate it came in
from the walls and now that the carpet is up there are no cracks in the
cement. Can it really come up throught the pores of the cement that
fast to cause that type of damage?? And does a not working sump pump
truly cause no damage??? They told me that the sump pump not working
wouldn't cause that type of damage. HELP!!!

The sump pump removes water from beneath the floor. If it is isn't working,
and the water table is higher than the floor, water will pour in from
between the floor and walls. No significant water comes in through the
floor or the walls, just the space between them. Does that make sense?
Insurance normally doesn't cover stuff like that, but read through the
policy to be sure. Then get a battery powered back up for next time.

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:49:14 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Then get a battery powered back up for next time.

I would like to do that, but will both a battery powered pump and the
original electric pump fit in the same standard size hole at the same
time?

(I assume with a check valve in each pipe, they can share the same
output pipe.)

In article , mm wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:49:14 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Then get a battery powered back up for next time.

I would like to do that, but will both a battery powered pump and the
original electric pump fit in the same standard size hole at the same
time?

Mine will, anyway -- "Basement Watchdog" brand. It's not much larger than a
softball.

(I assume with a check valve in each pipe, they can share the same
output pipe.)

Yep. All you need is a wye fitting to connect them together.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:58:46 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , mm wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:49:14 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Then get a battery powered back up for next time.

I would like to do that, but will both a battery powered pump and the
original electric pump fit in the same standard size hole at the same
time?

Mine will, anyway -- "Basement Watchdog" brand. It's not much larger than a
softball.

This looks pretty good, and the middle level one is, well I'm not sure
what the price is or what includes the battery, but it seems under
400.

Is the middle level one, 1730 GPH, good enough? I only have a 700 sq
ft/floor townhouse.

(I assume with a check valve in each pipe, they can share the same
output pipe.)

Yep. All you need is a wye fitting to connect them together.

I can do that.

mm wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:49:14 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Then get a battery powered back up for next time.

I would like to do that, but will both a battery powered pump and the
original electric pump fit in the same standard size hole at the same
time?

(I assume with a check valve in each pipe, they can share the same
output pipe.)


A battery powered back up will only help if you lose electricity... My
sump pump went bad and the basement flooded on the weekend while my
tenants were gone. If the pump is over ten year old it may not be a bad
idea to replace it. They don't last forever. I had new carpet that
was just put down 4 months earlier. Pulled it up let it dry and
replaced the padding and it was OK. Your best bet is to check the pump
often. Mine all I have to do is pull up on the rod and it will start
up. Now I never walk by it without testing it...

" wrote in
message ups.com...
mm wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:49:14 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Then get a battery powered back up for next time.

I would like to do that, but will both a battery powered pump and the
original electric pump fit in the same standard size hole at the same
time?

(I assume with a check valve in each pipe, they can share the same
output pipe.)


A battery powered back up will only help if you lose electricity... My
sump pump went bad and the basement flooded on the weekend while my
tenants were gone. If the pump is over ten year old it may not be a bad
idea to replace it. They don't last forever. I had new carpet that
was just put down 4 months earlier. Pulled it up let it dry and
replaced the padding and it was OK. Your best bet is to check the pump
often. Mine all I have to do is pull up on the rod and it will start
up. Now I never walk by it without testing it...

What are you talking about?
A battery backup will work just as well if your main pump breaks; in fact,
if the water comes in faster than the main pump can handle, the backup will
help out there also, though it is not a good idea to count on it...

On 29 Jun 2006 19:19:57 -0700, "
wrote:

mm wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:49:14 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Then get a battery powered back up for next time.

I would like to do that, but will both a battery powered pump and the
original electric pump fit in the same standard size hole at the same
time?

(I assume with a check valve in each pipe, they can share the same
output pipe.)


A battery powered back up will only help if you lose electricity... My

Until the past 7 days, this seemed very unlikely. There are power
failures, but they've never coincided with the stream near me going to
flood stage. And if my sump pump didn't work, the stream wouldn't
have to be at flood stage for my basement to flood.

But this week it occurred to me that if the stream were getting really
high, even before it was high enough to enter my basement window, it
would also be close to the local transformer, which is on the ground,
and they might turn the power off intentionally. I'm pretty sure I
saw that on the news. Didn't they turn off the power to a big area
someplace in the NorthEast this week?

Or the water might reach the power transformer and that would turn off
my power, I think.


(A mile downstream, past where my little tributary joins the bigger
Gwynns Falls, 2 or 3 houses were destroyed by flooding during
Hurricane Agnes, and the county or city didn't let them rebuild. I
guess they condemned their land and paid them for it.) I was told
once that one house in my n'hood was destroyed by flooding also,
before it was finished, and that it wasn't rebuilt. But I'm not
convinced. Every house is attached to 7 others. It seems either they
lost 8 houses or they didn't lose any. I should have asked the guy
more questions when I had the chance.


sump pump went bad and the basement flooded on the weekend while my
tenants were gone. If the pump is over ten year old it may not be a bad
idea to replace it. They don't last forever. I had new carpet that
was just put down 4 months earlier. Pulled it up let it dry and
replaced the padding and it was OK. Your best bet is to check the pump
often. Mine all I have to do is pull up on the rod and it will start
up. Now I never walk by it without testing it...

mm wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:49:14 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Then get a battery powered back up for next time.

I would like to do that, but will both a battery powered pump and the
original electric pump fit in the same standard size hole at the same
time?

(I assume with a check valve in each pipe, they can share the same
output pipe.)

You can get a sump pump that runs from your water line, via the venturi
effect, no electricity required, as a backup. I found on looking around
the web, don't remember where but you can look.

jcmilla wrote:
I have lived in my house for 4 years now, however the house is 14
years old, and haven't had any flooding problems until this week.
There has been several inches of rain dropped on our area the past 5
days. Well of course our sump pump stopped working. I went into the
basement one day and found that it was starting to get wet. Within 1
hour I had 2 inches of water covering the floor. Then we realized
the sump pump was not working. When we called insurance they sent
over an engineer who looked around for 10 minutes and left. The
next day I got a call saying that our water came up from the cement
and we wouldn't be covered. They then told me that there wouldn't
be that much water from a sump pump not working. Could this be
true??? It really came so fast and there are not wet walls to
indicate it came in from the walls and now that the carpet is up
there are no cracks in the cement. Can it really come up throught
the pores of the cement that fast to cause that type of damage??
And does a not working sump pump truly cause no damage??? They told
me that the sump pump not working wouldn't cause that type of damage.
HELP!!!

Tough question. You might want to see your local attorney. I would
guess that they may be trying to say it was due to flooding and not due to
sump pump failure. Read your policy carefully see if you can see if there
is anything in there that might give a hint.

Remember that your home owner's insurance does NOT cover flooding. That
is a different policy.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"jcmilla" wrote in message

There
has been several inches of rain dropped on our area the past 5 days.
Well of course our sump pump stopped working. I went into the
basement one day and found that it was starting to get wet. Within 1
hour I had 2 inches of water covering the floor. Then we realized the
sump pump was not working. When we called insurance they sent over an
engineer who looked around for 10 minutes and left. The next day I
got a call saying that our water came up from the cement and we
wouldn't be covered.

Sadly you and thousands of others will not be covered. Yes, it can come up
that fast between the cracks in the floor at the joints. I've heard of even
faster fill ups. I've heard stories of 50 year old houses that were dry put
to the recent rains last October and again this spring.

One lesson is to check your sump pump often. Once every couple of months,
dump some water into the sump hole and be sure it kicks on and pumps out.

It amazes me how many sumps are physically higher than a area of their
yard.

in a pump or power failure a underground overflow line can save much
damage

wrote in message
oups.com...
It amazes me how many sumps are physically higher than a area of their
yard.

in a pump or power failure a underground overflow line can save much
damage

If the sump were higher than an area of the yard, the area would fill up
with water before the basement did.
I've never had any water in my sump because my backyard is lower than the
sump; but I've had water in the backyard.
I suppose there are clay soils where this might not work perfectly, but in
general...

On 29 Jun 2006 19:42:41 -0700, "
wrote:

It amazes me how many sumps are physically higher than a area of their
yard.

in a pump or power failure a underground overflow line can save much
damage

I'm confused.

mm wrote:

On 29 Jun 2006 19:42:41 -0700, "
wrote:

It amazes me how many sumps are physically higher than a area of their
yard.

in a pump or power failure a underground overflow line can save much
damage

I'm confused.

If there is an area where your cellar can drain to without the use of
a pump, it makes good sense to install a drain that goes 'to
daylight'. Very often the builder or homeowner has taken the easy
way out and just installed a sump that empties out a window.

One pump failure could easily cost you as much as it would cost to dig
that trench and do it right.

Jim

Your homeowners insurance policy is not a substitute for you properly
maintaining your house. You took the sump pump for granted and that's
what happens when you do that.

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:39:14 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

mm wrote:

On 29 Jun 2006 19:42:41 -0700, "
wrote:

It amazes me how many sumps are physically higher than a area of their
yard.

in a pump or power failure a underground overflow line can save much
damage

I'm confused.

If there is an area where your cellar can drain to without the use of
a pump, it makes good sense to install a drain that goes 'to
daylight'. Very often the builder or homeowner has taken the easy
way out and just installed a sump that empties out a window.

One pump failure could easily cost you as much as it would cost to dig
that trench and do it right.

So do you mean when the basement floor is higher than the ground
outside on at least one side of the house?

Otherwise, if you mean when the basement floor is lower than the dirt
but higher than the normal water table outside, one would have to have
a darn good check valve, to keep the water in the ground outside from
coming back into the house when it rains. Then the water table rises,
or even if the table doesn't rise, the trench or whatever would
collect dripping or descending water inside the earth.

I have a whole row or more of townhouse neighbors with basement
sliding glass doors leading right out to the back yard**. But for my
row, all the basements are entirely 6 feet below ground level.

**I'm not sure they have sump pumps. Maybe the building code doesn't
require it for them.

Jim

"jcmilla" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have lived in my house for 4 years now, however the house is 14 years
old, and haven't had any flooding problems until this week. There
has been several inches of rain dropped on our area the past 5 days.
Well of course our sump pump stopped working. I went into the
basement one day and found that it was starting to get wet. Within 1
hour I had 2 inches of water covering the floor. Then we realized the
sump pump was not working. When we called insurance they sent over an
engineer who looked around for 10 minutes and left. The next day I
got a call saying that our water came up from the cement and we
wouldn't be covered. They then told me that there wouldn't be that
much water from a sump pump not working. Could this be true??? It
really came so fast and there are not wet walls to indicate it came in
from the walls and now that the carpet is up there are no cracks in the
cement. Can it really come up throught the pores of the cement that
fast to cause that type of damage?? And does a not working sump pump
truly cause no damage??? They told me that the sump pump not working
wouldn't cause that type of damage. HELP!!!

Check your policy--mine has a statement that covers basement water damage if
a sump pump fails. You are not covered if the problem is water table
flooding but you might be if your pump failed. Once the water table goes
above your floor it will leak into the basement at a relatively high rate.
MLD

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 02:45:23 GMT, "MLD" wrote:


"jcmilla" wrote in message
roups.com...
I have lived in my house for 4 years now, however the house is 14 years
old, and haven't had any flooding problems until this week. There
has been several inches of rain dropped on our area the past 5 days.
Well of course our sump pump stopped working. I went into the
basement one day and found that it was starting to get wet. Within 1
hour I had 2 inches of water covering the floor. Then we realized the
sump pump was not working. When we called insurance they sent over an
engineer who looked around for 10 minutes and left. The next day I
got a call saying that our water came up from the cement and we
wouldn't be covered. They then told me that there wouldn't be that
much water from a sump pump not working. Could this be true??? It
really came so fast and there are not wet walls to indicate it came in
from the walls and now that the carpet is up there are no cracks in the
cement. Can it really come up throught the pores of the cement that
fast to cause that type of damage?? And does a not working sump pump
truly cause no damage??? They told me that the sump pump not working
wouldn't cause that type of damage. HELP!!!

Check your policy--mine has a statement that covers basement water damage if
a sump pump fails. You are not covered if the problem is water table
flooding but you might be if your pump failed. Once the water table goes
above your floor it will leak into the basement at a relatively high rate.
MLD

Much higher than the rate it could seep through the floor or walls I
venture, and I'll bet there must be plenty of printed material saying
that. I watch while the water just pours into my sump, even in
moderate times, until the water in the sump is even with the water
table outside. If the water table outside were higher than the floor
and the sump pump were broken, the basement woudl flood, and I think
it would be the sump pump's fault. It's late and I'm groggy, so I
don't know the next step.

First thing I would do is carefully read your insurance policy to see
exactly what is covered and what isn't. For example, most homeowner's
policies will cover water damage from a broken or backed up pipe, but
will not cover damage from a flood. So see what exactly it says that
covers your situation.

I'd also start documenting everything. Most important, I would
document that the sump pump actually failed. If the insurance company
looked at the pump and gave you anything in writing, that acknowledges
it failed, that would be great. Or if you had a plumber replace it,
having in writing from him that it failed would be important. Take
pics of the situation and damage.

Also, if you live in a state where all it takes to legally record a
phone conversation is one party's consent, I'd start doing that with
any calls to the insurance company.

Of course, in the end, the real question will be how much $$$ the
actual damage amounts to. If it's not significant enough, it may not
be worth fighting.

On 30 Jun 2006 01:40:14 -0700, wrote:


Of course, in the end, the real question will be how much $$$ the
actual damage amounts to. If it's not significant enough, it may not
be worth fighting.

That's true too. I've never had 2 inches like the OP, but when there
has been water, most of the damage was to the carboard cartons I keep
things in, that I get free at the grocery store or liquor store.

It's an enormous pain for me, but I don't know how much U could get
from an insurance company for that! It never occurred to me to make a
claim, but like I say, I didn't have 2 inches.

Another thing on my list to do is to glue or something a piece of wood
into the doorway between the room with sump and washing machine and
sink and the other room. It will look crummy and I'll have to explain
it to a buyer someday, but it's pretty simple and easy and it will
keep the water in one room. I don't need 2 inches, just a half inch.
What glue shouldl I use?

In article , mm says...

On 30 Jun 2006 01:40:14 -0700, wrote:


Of course, in the end, the real question will be how much $$$ the
actual damage amounts to. If it's not significant enough, it may not
be worth fighting.

That's true too. I've never had 2 inches like the OP, but when there
has been water, most of the damage was to the carboard cartons I keep
things in, that I get free at the grocery store or liquor store.

It's an enormous pain for me, but I don't know how much U could get
from an insurance company for that! It never occurred to me to make a
claim, but like I say, I didn't have 2 inches.

Another thing on my list to do is to glue or something a piece of wood
into the doorway between the room with sump and washing machine and
sink and the other room. It will look crummy and I'll have to explain
it to a buyer someday,

No you won't have to explain it to a buyer. The buyer will read:

"NOTICE! THIS BASEMENT FLOODS!"

Better to fix the problem.

Banty


--

In article , mm says...

On 30 Jun 2006 01:40:14 -0700, wrote:


Of course, in the end, the real question will be how much $$$ the
actual damage amounts to. If it's not significant enough, it may not
be worth fighting.

That's true too. I've never had 2 inches like the OP, but when there
has been water, most of the damage was to the carboard cartons I keep
things in, that I get free at the grocery store or liquor store.

It's an enormous pain for me, but I don't know how much U could get
from an insurance company for that! It never occurred to me to make a
claim, but like I say, I didn't have 2 inches.

Another thing on my list to do is to glue or something a piece of wood
into the doorway between the room with sump and washing machine and
sink and the other room. It will look crummy and I'll have to explain
it to a buyer someday,

No you won't have to explain it to a buyer. The buyer will read:

"NOTICE! THIS BASEMENT FLOODS!"

Better to fix the problem.

Banty


--

I used to have problems with the sewer line in my house (until I found
someone who did an excellent job of cleaning out the roots- the other
various jokers didn't). Plus another time I had a little laundry
accident (I moved the washer drain hose and forgot to put it back into
the sink). I have several water alarms placed around the basement.

I became a rabid water alarm advocate and mailed one to my parents.
No special reason; I just thought everyone should have one The day
it arrived, they opened the package, my dad put it in the sump in the
cellar then went out someplace. It started to rain almost
immediately. The alarm went off. My mother couldn't get ahold of my
father. By the time he got home she was verrrry upset. Poor Dad.
Anyway, aside from the sump pump not working it turned out there was
some sort of valve in the sewer that prevents water from backing up
that needed replacement. Likely water had been coming in every time
it rained but they never knew it because they don't go down in the
cellar often. Now, thanks to me, they knew. For some reason, the
story of a water alarm going off within an hour of installing it and
my mother freaking out amuses me.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!