Hi...I've got a water stain (I'm assuming it's water) which has been
growing on the ceiling of the main floor. Above the spot where the
stain originally began (it's grown longer now) lines up exactly with a
sink in the upstairs bathroom. I don't know if that is a coincidence.

I've let the water run in that sink for a long time and I don't see any
obvious leaks.

The plumber's I spoke to don't seem to have a good idea how to go about
this kind of investigation. I certainly don't want to cut a hole in
the ceiling as the first thing I try (as a couple plumber's suggested
to me).

Can anyone suggest how one can go about locating this source of the
water? In the bathroom in question is also a hot tub, toilet, shower,
and another sink.

Adam Lane wrote:

Hi...I've got a water stain (I'm assuming it's water) which has been
growing on the ceiling of the main floor. Above the spot where the
stain originally began (it's grown longer now) lines up exactly with a
sink in the upstairs bathroom. I don't know if that is a coincidence.

I've let the water run in that sink for a long time and I don't see any
obvious leaks.

The plumber's I spoke to don't seem to have a good idea how to go about
this kind of investigation. I certainly don't want to cut a hole in
the ceiling as the first thing I try (as a couple plumber's suggested
to me).

Can anyone suggest how one can go about locating this source of the
water? In the bathroom in question is also a hot tub, toilet, shower,
and another sink.


You are going to have to repaint (including Kilz) over the
stain anyway, so why not cut out a small inspection hole?
I think it will save you a ton of time/effort .

A leaking drain is likely, but don't overlook a tiny
pinhole in a supply line either.

Jim

"Adam Lane" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi...I've got a water stain (I'm assuming it's water) which has been
growing on the ceiling of the main floor. Above the spot where the
stain originally began (it's grown longer now) lines up exactly with a
sink in the upstairs bathroom. I don't know if that is a coincidence.

I've let the water run in that sink for a long time and I don't see any
obvious leaks.

The plumber's I spoke to don't seem to have a good idea how to go about
this kind of investigation. I certainly don't want to cut a hole in
the ceiling as the first thing I try (as a couple plumber's suggested
to me).

Can anyone suggest how one can go about locating this source of the
water? In the bathroom in question is also a hot tub, toilet, shower,
and another sink.


I would start buy Drilling some holes in the ceiling to let any
water out or you may not have to worry about removing sheetrock from
ceiling, gravity will do it for you. There's no way around cutting out
something. Maybe expose the plumbing for the vanity. If that fails to find
the leak Your only option is inspecting threw the ceiling.

Since there is a bathroom above, unless the leak is obvious in the
bathroom, it's very likely that the only way to fix it is going to be
from below. So, I'd start by cutting a hole as the plumbers have
suggested. You need to repaint the ceiling anyway. Cutting a hole
between the joists isn't that big of deal to repair.

cut out hole, drywall is already bad.

inspect and fix right.

On 28 Apr 2006 14:32:40 -0700, "Adam Lane" wrote:
The plumber's I spoke to don't seem to have a good idea how to go about
this kind of investigation. I certainly don't want to cut a hole in
the ceiling as the first thing I try (as a couple plumber's suggested
to me).

Can anyone suggest how one can go about locating this source of the
water? In the bathroom in question is also a hot tub, toilet, shower,
and another sink.

You might want to talk to your insurance company about what they will
cover. I bought a house in which seller had solved his problem by
painting the ceiling and not using the offending shower. When water
started dripping through the ceiling (now my ceiling) I tore out the
drywall and checked. Eventually we found out it was the shower, and
upon tearing it out we found that that during construction, years
before, installer had nailed through the pan floor. Insurance company
paid for everything except new pan; even to new bathroom tile after
contractor was unable to match existing tile

A little more background....the stain started as a small one (couple
inches diameter)...then grew, length-wise (but the width never got much
bigger than the intial 3-4 inches width) in a straight line until it
reached its current 5 feet. The other important point: this stain
grew, very slowly, over the course of several YEARS. The ceiling is
dry now, and, in fact, has never been particularly noticably wet.

My first thought was it was caused by a lot of water which was being
carelessly spilled on the floor when the upstairs sink was in use. So
we stopped doing that...and the stain seemed dormant. But then when we
began to use the hot tub, the stain seemed to begin to grow. Although
the stain itself is not underneath where the hot tub is, it's directly
underneath the sink (and the original point of the stain is EXACTLY
underneath the sink drain pipe).

In light of this, I wonder if y'all think cutting the ceiling at the
stain will be the thing to do?

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:55:16 GMT, Speedy Jim wrote:

Adam Lane wrote:

Hi...I've got a water stain (I'm assuming it's water) which has been
growing on the ceiling of the main floor. Above the spot where the
stain originally began (it's grown longer now) lines up exactly with a
sink in the upstairs bathroom. I don't know if that is a coincidence.

I've let the water run in that sink for a long time and I don't see any
obvious leaks.

The plumber's I spoke to don't seem to have a good idea how to go about
this kind of investigation. I certainly don't want to cut a hole in
the ceiling as the first thing I try (as a couple plumber's suggested
to me).

Can anyone suggest how one can go about locating this source of the
water? In the bathroom in question is also a hot tub, toilet, shower,
and another sink.


You are going to have to repaint (including Kilz) over the
stain anyway, so why not cut out a small inspection hole?
I think it will save you a ton of time/effort .

A leaking drain is likely, but don't overlook a tiny
pinhole in a supply line either.

Not related to his leak, but a kitchen I use in a 40 year old building
nearby has a sink faucet, and when the water is on, it sprays out
through about 6 or 10 holes that have developed in the faucet "arm",
the 8" chrome thing that rotates from side to side and the water comes
out of it.

I have the same water supply. Should I be doing something to keep the
water from eating up my faucets, etc?

Jim

"Adam Lane" wrote in message
oups.com...
A little more background....the stain started as a small one (couple
inches diameter)...then grew, length-wise (but the width never got much
bigger than the intial 3-4 inches width) in a straight line until it
reached its current 5 feet. The other important point: this stain
grew, very slowly, over the course of several YEARS. The ceiling is
dry now, and, in fact, has never been particularly noticably wet.

My first thought was it was caused by a lot of water which was being
carelessly spilled on the floor when the upstairs sink was in use. So
we stopped doing that...and the stain seemed dormant. But then when we
began to use the hot tub, the stain seemed to begin to grow. Although
the stain itself is not underneath where the hot tub is, it's directly
underneath the sink (and the original point of the stain is EXACTLY
underneath the sink drain pipe).

In light of this, I wonder if y'all think cutting the ceiling at the
stain will be the thing to do?


It sounds as though the water is either traveling from one direction in a
straight line, or the water is getting into a drywall seam and the stain is
growing larger as the seam fills up.

You can try cutting an access hole by using a keyhole saw at a 45 degree
angle. It will be easier to patch instead of having to go to the joists.
Click here for more info:
http://www.wd40jobsite.com/secret_de...748&c=1&q=&s=1

The hot tub may drain into the same line as the sink and perhaps that is
where your problem is. Unless you have X-Ray vision you know what you must
do.

Thanks for the tips, folks. And especially thanks to you, John G.
You've given me some clues which are very interesting, indeed. And
that is a very helpful video!

It sounds like you may not be wiping up wet bathroom floors quickly.

Have you got silicone caulking around your floor at the baseboards?

There is some caulking around the baseboards. The caulking must be
pretty old, but seems to be in ok shape.


There's no caulking where the bathroom cabinet itself meets the floor.
I don't know it it would be wise to add some there?

I'd silicone around the entire bathroom floor. Then use both sink and
hot tub as usual.

If water seems to pool at the sink and the stain doesn't increase -
you might have got it.

The cause of the water stain is still a mystery. I had an experienced
bathroom plumber/contractor take a look, but there is no obvious source
of the water.

Interestingly, he declined to cut a hole in the ceiling, because he
said it is doubtful it would reveal anything helpful. He said since
the stain is already very old, and hasn't changed in a couple of years,
there would be no tell-tale signs of the souce found under the ceiling.

I wonder if y'all agree with that reasoning?

"Adam Lane" wrote in message
oups.com...
The cause of the water stain is still a mystery. I had an experienced
bathroom plumber/contractor take a look, but there is no obvious source
of the water.

Interestingly, he declined to cut a hole in the ceiling, because he
said it is doubtful it would reveal anything helpful. He said since
the stain is already very old, and hasn't changed in a couple of years,
there would be no tell-tale signs of the souce found under the ceiling.

I wonder if y'all agree with that reasoning?
I haven't caught any of the other parts of this thread, but do you have an
attic above the stain, and do you have an AC unit up there?
B

Ah...not an attic, and there is no AC unit in the house at all. Above
the stain is a bathroom with a two sinks, a shower, and a jacuzzi
bathtub. Everyone is assuming the water somehow came from somewhere in
the bathroom. But, pinpointing the exact source (and this is what I
need to know so I can prevent future occurences) is proving to be
elusive.

John Grabowski wrote:

"Adam Lane" wrote in message
oups.com...

A little more background....the stain started as a small one (couple
inches diameter)...then grew, length-wise (but the width never got much
bigger than the intial 3-4 inches width) in a straight line until it
reached its current 5 feet. The other important point: this stain
grew, very slowly, over the course of several YEARS. The ceiling is
dry now, and, in fact, has never been particularly noticably wet.

My first thought was it was caused by a lot of water which was being
carelessly spilled on the floor when the upstairs sink was in use. So
we stopped doing that...and the stain seemed dormant. But then when we
began to use the hot tub, the stain seemed to begin to grow. Although
the stain itself is not underneath where the hot tub is, it's directly
underneath the sink (and the original point of the stain is EXACTLY
underneath the sink drain pipe).

In light of this, I wonder if y'all think cutting the ceiling at the
stain will be the thing to do?



It sounds as though the water is either traveling from one direction in a
straight line, or the water is getting into a drywall seam and the stain is
growing larger as the seam fills up.

You can try cutting an access hole by using a keyhole saw at a 45 degree
angle. It will be easier to patch instead of having to go to the joists.
Click here for more info:
http://www.wd40jobsite.com/secret_de...748&c=1&q=&s=1

The hot tub may drain into the same line as the sink and perhaps that is
where your problem is. Unless you have X-Ray vision you know what you must
do.

Where is the stain in relation to outside walls? Plumbing vents? I
would double check, if possible, that any outside leak such as around a
roof vent is not a possibllity. Thinking that a leaky window or roof
vent might allow moisture in that migrates to a low spot along a joist
or some such. Good luck.

Your original post failed to mention that the stain has been there for
a couple years and hasn't changed. I think everyone thought this was
recent and an ongoing problem, which is why there were suggestion to
cut open the ceiling. If it hasn;t leaked for 2 years, I don;t know
why you would even call a plumber.

If the drywall is ok other than being stained, I would put a couple
coats of stain killer on it, then repaint that area. Wait awhile, and
if no further leaking occurs, paint the whole ceiling.

The stain is virtually in the middle of the ceiling. Far away from the
outside walls.

We actually do a a leak in the roof, too now. And it stained the top
floor ceiling. But that is just recent.

But, yes, thanks for the idea, and I will try to double-check it.

Yes, I did fail to mention it at first. But elaborated on it in my
second post.

The reason for the concern is I'm not convinced that the fact it hasn't
leaked in two years is indicative that there's no more problem.
Because, in fact, nobody has been using the upstairs bathroom for two
years. So *that* could be the reason the stain hasn't been getting
worse.

Meanwhile, don't anyone hesitate to give an opinion if cutting a hole
in the ceiling will truly help locate the source of the water
(considering, as we now understand, the stain has already been there a
couple of years).

Thanksya.