OK. Its not a house, its a building on a dock, but I know there are
many of you who can probably sympathisize and many who know a thing or
two about fighting city hall. Please advise - the way things are going
in this country, this could be any one of us next!

I'm trying to help a friend of mine who has a problem with the local
small town city hall and the [State] Marine Resources Commission (lets
call it SMRC). Friend has the deed to an old dock with a (historic)
building on it (and public access off the end of the road) and wants to
fix it up and have a docking, rental and repair business for small
boats.

There are lots of side details in this case, of course, but I think I
can cut to the relevant parts without missing anything important.

It seems there is a neighbor who owns the adjacent waterfront lot (a
lawyer), who, along with his buddies the city attorney, the city
manager, the mayor and probably a few members of the city council, want
my friend out of the way so they can take advantage of the new laws
they just got pushed through the city council, over the protests of
many local residents, which will allow high-density housing to be built
on the waterfront.

The SMRC has jurisdiction because the structures are built in the
water, but they must rely on the local building inspector and city
engineer to determine the soundness of the structure. The
determination from the city is that the structure is unsound and in
need of extensive repairs, which my friend already knew and was ready,
willing and able to do when he bought the thing. The SMRC has given
him 6 months to either make the structure sound, or remove the
structure completely, at which time he would then have no claim at all
because it is now grandfathered in, but would never be permitted to be
built from scratch now under current regulations.

The problem is that the city will not approve any plans, grant any
permits, or allow any progress whatsoever. Some work was done to
prevent/repair storm damage before and after a recent severe storm, and
the city issued a stop work order when they detected even that
activity.

After being stonewalled by the city and with his deadline to fix or
remove the structure running out with the state, an appeal was made
with the local circuit court. The judge ruled against my friend and
with the city.

The local congressional representative for that district was contacted
and my friend was informed that when that particular city manager, city
attorney and judge are working together, nothing can be done.

We've heard a rumor of some sort of a law (maybe from an electrical
codes manual suppliment?) that says government can't stop one from
making improvements and repairs and then condemn a property for lack of
improvements and repairs, but we can't find that anwhere.

There might be some sort of an legal assistance organization that would
take up the cause of property rights... Or some sort of historical
society with pull at higher levels to get things preserved and
restored... But I've not found them.

Any ideas on what he might do next? He doesn't have tens of
thousands of dollars to hire lawyers to fight city hall...

he needs:
1. a home improvement loan
2. an attorney
3. a contractor.

contact local media, tv news, newspaper they love little people being
pushed around stories

I second the notion of contacting an attorney and getting the local media
involved, get the attorney first and see what he/she has to say about
contacting the media. If your "friend" is acting in accordance with the
rules and regs then the media would be your I mean his best bet!

Searcher

wrote in message
Any ideas on what he might do next? He doesn't have tens of
thousands of dollars to hire lawyers to fight city hall...


That is what he needs though. Read what you wrote and you will see the town
is holding the cards and the lawyers.

The media attention suggestion may help. Private funding is just not worth
the fight, sadly.

Talk to an lawyer in a Different county since you don`t know who is
friends, 1st visits are often free or just a small fee. Freeadvise.com
is a free legal service to help get you started.

I guess the more that are contacted, not only the better the chances of
finding one who could help, but also there is the value of fine-tuning
the relevant details of the case each time it is presented fresh, as
well as all those little pieces of information and advice that come up
as each new person puts in their two cents worth from their own base of
experience, perception and knowledge...

How and why was your permit denied, do you have proof such as a
recorded phone conversation or letters from the permit dept, what was
the reason.

Ah! Forgot to mention, there was, I hear, an email from the State to
the City to the effect of "Well, what can we do to get rid of this
problem?" that turned up in a FOIA request - the party that allowed it
into the file was apparently recently passed over for an expected
promotion, got fed up, and quit working with the city.

Thanks!

He is looking at this the wrong way, Sounds like they want the property
for a future development. He might be holding the winning cards, his little
piece of dirt might be worth more than he thinks. It could be a factor in
the development. He should find a COMPETENT attorney. Then start
negotiations to sell them the property, If they need it they will pay more
than it's worth it's all about negotiation and holding your ground. I would
start by checking if there is a master plan for the area, likely includes
your friends area. It's not know your enemy but know your new friend. You
need to know all your option's, try to think every aspect out, try not to
get angry, turn what seems like negative into a positive. Maybe offer the
property for a percentage of the development.

Now here was our family situation and why I'm giving this advice. We
had a piece of property in S.F. it was condemned and on a 99 year lease. The
Co. that leased also owned every building on the block. They also would not
let us out of the lease ( the lease was 1/5 of value) well there plan
included a 14 to 16 story building in the future. We had the winning hand,
they needed our little piece of the pie for their project to work. 2 years
ago they bought our piece of pie. On the down side it was ten years of on
and off negotiation getting to know your new friend,. The last two years
were the deal maker. So it might take time. We got over 5 times the
appraised value, also this is a very condensed story there were a lot of
factors.






wrote in message
oups.com...
OK. Its not a house, its a building on a dock, but I know there are
many of you who can probably sympathisize and many who know a thing or
two about fighting city hall. Please advise - the way things are going
in this country, this could be any one of us next!

I'm trying to help a friend of mine who has a problem with the local
small town city hall and the [State] Marine Resources Commission (lets
call it SMRC). Friend has the deed to an old dock with a (historic)
building on it (and public access off the end of the road) and wants to
fix it up and have a docking, rental and repair business for small
boats.

There are lots of side details in this case, of course, but I think I
can cut to the relevant parts without missing anything important.

It seems there is a neighbor who owns the adjacent waterfront lot (a
lawyer), who, along with his buddies the city attorney, the city
manager, the mayor and probably a few members of the city council, want
my friend out of the way so they can take advantage of the new laws
they just got pushed through the city council, over the protests of
many local residents, which will allow high-density housing to be built
on the waterfront.

The SMRC has jurisdiction because the structures are built in the
water, but they must rely on the local building inspector and city
engineer to determine the soundness of the structure. The
determination from the city is that the structure is unsound and in
need of extensive repairs, which my friend already knew and was ready,
willing and able to do when he bought the thing. The SMRC has given
him 6 months to either make the structure sound, or remove the
structure completely, at which time he would then have no claim at all
because it is now grandfathered in, but would never be permitted to be
built from scratch now under current regulations.

The problem is that the city will not approve any plans, grant any
permits, or allow any progress whatsoever. Some work was done to
prevent/repair storm damage before and after a recent severe storm, and
the city issued a stop work order when they detected even that
activity.

After being stonewalled by the city and with his deadline to fix or
remove the structure running out with the state, an appeal was made
with the local circuit court. The judge ruled against my friend and
with the city.

The local congressional representative for that district was contacted
and my friend was informed that when that particular city manager, city
attorney and judge are working together, nothing can be done.

We've heard a rumor of some sort of a law (maybe from an electrical
codes manual suppliment?) that says government can't stop one from
making improvements and repairs and then condemn a property for lack of
improvements and repairs, but we can't find that anwhere.

There might be some sort of an legal assistance organization that would
take up the cause of property rights... Or some sort of historical
society with pull at higher levels to get things preserved and
restored... But I've not found them.

Any ideas on what he might do next? He doesn't have tens of
thousands of dollars to hire lawyers to fight city hall...

I agree with Sacramento Dave about the hidden motive here. Has your friend
offered to meet with "the enemy", so he can simply ask them what needs to
happen in order for anything to proceed? Why ask that question? Simple:
Docks need constant maintenance, or they only get uglier, and sometimes
dangerous. Certainly the town doesn't want THAT to happen, so they're
holding out for SOMETHING.

Can he get the inspector to tell him it's already a dangerous structure, and
put it in writing? If yes, then he's got a good reason to invite the press
in for a look. They will ask why the town will not let him repair a
dangerous structure.

The other possibility is that they've seen boat repair facilities that look
like junk yards. Some of them get that way. You'd think they'd just come out
and say that, and stipulate certain appearance requirements.

Document everything With a letter/e-mail let them know your more
than willing to work with them and making an effort to comply. It will pay
off if you end up in court.




"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I agree with Sacramento Dave about the hidden motive here. Has your friend
offered to meet with "the enemy", so he can simply ask them what needs to
happen in order for anything to proceed? Why ask that question? Simple:
Docks need constant maintenance, or they only get uglier, and sometimes
dangerous. Certainly the town doesn't want THAT to happen, so they're
holding out for SOMETHING.

Can he get the inspector to tell him it's already a dangerous structure,
and put it in writing? If yes, then he's got a good reason to invite the
press in for a look. They will ask why the town will not let him repair a
dangerous structure.

The other possibility is that they've seen boat repair facilities that
look like junk yards. Some of them get that way. You'd think they'd just
come out and say that, and stipulate certain appearance requirements.

And everything that's mailed (on paper) should be done with return receipt
requested.


"Sacramento Dave" wrote in message
...
Document everything With a letter/e-mail let them know your more
than willing to work with them and making an effort to comply. It will pay
off if you end up in court.




"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I agree with Sacramento Dave about the hidden motive here. Has your friend
offered to meet with "the enemy", so he can simply ask them what needs to
happen in order for anything to proceed? Why ask that question? Simple:
Docks need constant maintenance, or they only get uglier, and sometimes
dangerous. Certainly the town doesn't want THAT to happen, so they're
holding out for SOMETHING.

Can he get the inspector to tell him it's already a dangerous structure,
and put it in writing? If yes, then he's got a good reason to invite the
press in for a look. They will ask why the town will not let him repair a
dangerous structure.

The other possibility is that they've seen boat repair facilities that
look like junk yards. Some of them get that way. You'd think they'd just
come out and say that, and stipulate certain appearance requirements.

wrote:
OK. Its not a house, its a building on a dock, but I know there are
many of you who can probably sympathisize and many who know a thing or
two about fighting city hall. Please advise - the way things are going
in this country, this could be any one of us next!

I'm trying to help a friend of mine who has a problem with the local
small town city hall and the [State] Marine Resources Commission (lets
call it SMRC). Friend has the deed to an old dock with a (historic)
building on it (and public access off the end of the road) and wants to
fix it up and have a docking, rental and repair business for small
boats.


Is the building registered as an historic/landmark building? Might be
laws against changing or removing it.

There are lots of side details in this case, of course, but I think I
can cut to the relevant parts without missing anything important.

It seems there is a neighbor who owns the adjacent waterfront lot (a
lawyer), who, along with his buddies the city attorney, the city
manager, the mayor and probably a few members of the city council, want
my friend out of the way so they can take advantage of the new laws
they just got pushed through the city council, over the protests of
many local residents, which will allow high-density housing to be built
on the waterfront.

You haven't seen "bloodthirsty" until investors start buying up property
for high density building. Got four little condos within a block of
mine, demo'd and ready for new buildings.

A condo, worth $100,000 five years ago, is on land worth $1,000,000 now
- a conservative idea of what is going on "on the water" in FL.

The SMRC has jurisdiction because the structures are built in the
water, but they must rely on the local building inspector and city
engineer to determine the soundness of the structure. The
determination from the city is that the structure is unsound and in
need of extensive repairs, which my friend already knew and was ready,
willing and able to do when he bought the thing. The SMRC has given
him 6 months to either make the structure sound, or remove the
structure completely, at which time he would then have no claim at all
because it is now grandfathered in, but would never be permitted to be
built from scratch now under current regulations.

The problem is that the city will not approve any plans, grant any
permits, or allow any progress whatsoever. Some work was done to
prevent/repair storm damage before and after a recent severe storm, and
the city issued a stop work order when they detected even that
activity.


If the friend has no documentation of the defects, or what is required
to bring it up to standard, he'd better get with it. Reading local code
should help, but it sure sounds like an out-of-town attorney is in order.
After being stonewalled by the city and with his deadline to fix or
remove the structure running out with the state, an appeal was made
with the local circuit court. The judge ruled against my friend and
with the city.

The local congressional representative for that district was contacted
and my friend was informed that when that particular city manager, city
attorney and judge are working together, nothing can be done.

Probably the mayor's brother-in-law. C-person has no federal issue to
defend, it appears.

We've heard a rumor of some sort of a law (maybe from an electrical
codes manual suppliment?) that says government can't stop one from
making improvements and repairs and then condemn a property for lack of
improvements and repairs, but we can't find that anwhere.

My local codes differ for single-family, multi- and rentals. The agency
that issued the condemnation and/or stop-work should have a website with
details for satisfaction and/or appeals. Best read up.

There might be some sort of an legal assistance organization that would
take up the cause of property rights... Or some sort of historical
society with pull at higher levels to get things preserved and
restored... But I've not found them.

Any ideas on what he might do next? He doesn't have tens of
thousands of dollars to hire lawyers to fight city hall...


Flood insurance rules may come into play. In our flood zone, and
probably at least state-wide if not nationally, 50% damage means a
residence has to be raised another story (or ? feet). Commercial
property, I have no idea. Is this a commercial building on a
residential lot? Sounds pretty complicated. In my area, a property on
the water at one time could buy the bottom-land, which our condo does.
We also escape paying state tax on it because we obtained it at a
certain time. Soooooo complicated.