Whole house vacuum clearer systems have access ports (inlets) where a
user can plug-in a flexible pick-up tube. Behind the access ports are
tubes that lead to a central vacuum clearer. The user aims the end of
the flexible pick-up tube at the dirt, and the suction takes the dirt
via the tubes to a container in the central vacuum cleaner. This
article describes one setup: http://snipurl.com/ottj

The vacuum cleaner itself is larger and perhaps has a quieter motor
than portable units, but it's conventional in design. A fan covered by
a dust filter provides the suction.

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms. Make
an opening from the outside of the house to the inside, and have a fan
in it blowing through a filter (for pollen etc.) toward the inside. In
other words, have a fan that pressurizes the house. Behind each access
port, have a tube goes directly to a screened-in container outside. The
user closes up the house, starts the pressurizing fan, and uses the
flexible pick-up tubes as in the conventional arrangement. Dust and
gases get removed from the house, and the larger pieces of trash get
caught in the screened-in containers.

I see advantages to this kind of system:

The tube system is simple and cheap.

Short tubes going outside are unlikely to clog.

Instead of capturing most of the dust as with a conventional unit, you
exhaust the dust to the outside. This exhaust doesn't need much of a
filter. A screen would prevent you from littering the neighborhood.

Relatively clean incoming air goes to the fine filter. This would need
infrequent replacement.

Pick-up tubes can be different sizes.

There's a possibility of quiet operation.


Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?

--
(||) Nehmo (||)

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
Whole house vacuum clearer systems have access ports (inlets) where a
user can plug-in a flexible pick-up tube. Behind the access ports are
tubes that lead to a central vacuum clearer. The user aims the end of
the flexible pick-up tube at the dirt, and the suction takes the dirt
via the tubes to a container in the central vacuum cleaner. This
article describes one setup: http://snipurl.com/ottj

The vacuum cleaner itself is larger and perhaps has a quieter motor
than portable units, but it's conventional in design. A fan covered by
a dust filter provides the suction.

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms. Make
an opening from the outside of the house to the inside, and have a fan
in it blowing through a filter (for pollen etc.) toward the inside. In
other words, have a fan that pressurizes the house. Behind each access
port, have a tube goes directly to a screened-in container outside. The
user closes up the house, starts the pressurizing fan, and uses the
flexible pick-up tubes as in the conventional arrangement. Dust and
gases get removed from the house, and the larger pieces of trash get
caught in the screened-in containers.

I see advantages to this kind of system:

The tube system is simple and cheap.

Short tubes going outside are unlikely to clog.

Instead of capturing most of the dust as with a conventional unit, you
exhaust the dust to the outside. This exhaust doesn't need much of a
filter. A screen would prevent you from littering the neighborhood.

Relatively clean incoming air goes to the fine filter. This would need
infrequent replacement.

Pick-up tubes can be different sizes.

There's a possibility of quiet operation.


Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?

just buy a dyson man! but if you invent a system that can dust, hoover
and cook (other than marriage) let me know!

Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?
just buy a dyson man! but if you invent a system that can dust, hoover and
cook (other than marriage) let me know!

I wouldn't use a Dyson to stop my car rolling down the road.

Buy a Henry and with the money you save...a lifetime supply of bags.

D

On 7 Apr 2006 13:18:49 -0700, "Nehmo Sergheyev"
wrote:

Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?


No but inevitably it's going to come down one side or the other.
Your sucker blows.
OR
Your blower sucks.

Plummeting swan filters would add some topicality.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the (EGG) to email me.

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
ups.com...
Whole house vacuum clearer systems have access ports (inlets) where a
user can plug-in a flexible pick-up tube. Behind the access ports are
tubes that lead to a central vacuum clearer. The user aims the end of
the flexible pick-up tube at the dirt, and the suction takes the dirt
via the tubes to a container in the central vacuum cleaner. This
article describes one setup: http://snipurl.com/ottj

The vacuum cleaner itself is larger and perhaps has a quieter motor
than portable units, but it's conventional in design. A fan covered by
a dust filter provides the suction.

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms. Make
an opening from the outside of the house to the inside, and have a fan
in it blowing through a filter (for pollen etc.) toward the inside. In
other words, have a fan that pressurizes the house. Behind each access
port, have a tube goes directly to a screened-in container outside. The
user closes up the house, starts the pressurizing fan, and uses the
flexible pick-up tubes as in the conventional arrangement. Dust and
gases get removed from the house, and the larger pieces of trash get
caught in the screened-in containers.

I see advantages to this kind of system:

The tube system is simple and cheap.

Short tubes going outside are unlikely to clog.

Instead of capturing most of the dust as with a conventional unit, you
exhaust the dust to the outside. This exhaust doesn't need much of a
filter. A screen would prevent you from littering the neighborhood.

Relatively clean incoming air goes to the fine filter. This would need
infrequent replacement.

Pick-up tubes can be different sizes.

There's a possibility of quiet operation.


Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?

--
(||) Nehmo (||)


It would not be practical because
1. You would never be able to seal a house as well as you wanted and if you
did, you would not be able to sell the concept to many customers. You would
need to seal better than tyou would for caulking cold air entry.

2. You could not open a door or have kids entering or leaving the house
while you cleaned. "Kids we are on lockdown until I finish blowing the dirt
out" (it is not a vacuum)

3. It will hurt your ears when you have a bad sinus day due to the rising
and falling baromatric pressure in the house.

4. Air is compressable, so even if you switched on a compressor with X cfm
airflow, the airflow at the exit port would be less and delayed acording to
how much air volume in the house there is. Airflow would be slow at the
exit port.

4. Most of the compressed air in the room would flow right over the dirt to
get to the exit tube, leaving most of the dirt inside the carpet.

5. It would force dust further into the carpet as air leaked through the
unsealed subfloor

Can I blow any more holes in your idea.

It would and does work for smoke removal though.

my dad made a interesting observation about his brand new home with
central vac.

he remarked and my step mom agreed the central vacs hose is harder to
manuver and manipulate than a standard vac. although it probably cleans
a bit better

In article et,
"PipeDown" writes:

It would not be practical because
[...]
Can I blow any more holes in your idea.

6. If you applied even a tiny amount of the pressure differential
you find in something like a Dyson to a whole house, it would
be instantly blown to pieces all over the neighbourhood.

I have a mental image of this happening when they start doing the
new pressure testing of houses as required by UK Building Regs.
Misquoting Michael Caine's famous line, "You weren't supposed
to blow the bloody doors off"...

--
Andrew Gabriel

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

I have a mental image of this happening when they start doing the
new pressure testing of houses as required by UK Building Regs.

"Eight pounds of over-pressure wave seemed to glue him to the wall"
Jethro Tull, Protect and Survive.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

Whole house vacuum clearer systems have access ports (inlets) where a
user can plug-in a flexible pick-up tube. Behind the access ports are
tubes that lead to a central vacuum clearer. The user aims the end of
the flexible pick-up tube at the dirt, and the suction takes the dirt
via the tubes to a container in the central vacuum cleaner. This
article describes one setup: http://snipurl.com/ottj

The vacuum cleaner itself is larger and perhaps has a quieter motor
than portable units, but it's conventional in design. A fan covered by
a dust filter provides the suction.

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms. Make
an opening from the outside of the house to the inside, and have a fan
in it blowing through a filter (for pollen etc.) toward the inside. In
other words, have a fan that pressurizes the house. Behind each access
port, have a tube goes directly to a screened-in container outside. The
user closes up the house, starts the pressurizing fan, and uses the
flexible pick-up tubes as in the conventional arrangement. Dust and
gases get removed from the house, and the larger pieces of trash get
caught in the screened-in containers.

I see advantages to this kind of system:

The tube system is simple and cheap.

Short tubes going outside are unlikely to clog.

Instead of capturing most of the dust as with a conventional unit, you
exhaust the dust to the outside. This exhaust doesn't need much of a
filter. A screen would prevent you from littering the neighborhood.

Relatively clean incoming air goes to the fine filter. This would need
infrequent replacement.

Pick-up tubes can be different sizes.

There's a possibility of quiet operation.


Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?



You missed April Fool's Day by 6 days....

This has to be a troll, nobody could be THAT stupid...


Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

You missed April Fool's Day by 6 days....

This has to be a troll, nobody could be THAT stupid...


R U sure. Usually trollers make up a name for the session or use it to make
many stupid posts. This guy's handle shows up robustly on google with lots
of no nonsense posts. An inventive dreamer perhaps.

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 21:31:59 +0100, Vortex wrote:


Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?
just buy a dyson man! but if you invent a system that can dust, hoover and
cook (other than marriage) let me know!

I wouldn't use a Dyson to stop my car rolling down the road.

Buy a Henry and with the money you save...a lifetime supply of bags.

or not: I was wondering whether I'd have to buy some new bags for our
new Henry or whether I could get away with emptying and re-using the one
that came with it. It seemed to be getting quite heavy (lots of small
building debris) so I opened it up to see and found that the paper bag was
split and so it was only the cloth filter doing the work. Seemed OK so
that's how I left it (after emptying it, natch).

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
ups.com...
Whole house vacuum clearer systems have access ports (inlets) where a
user can plug-in a flexible pick-up tube. Behind the access ports are
tubes that lead to a central vacuum clearer.

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms. Make
an opening from the outside of the house to the inside, and have a fan
in it blowing through a filter (for pollen etc.) toward the inside.

Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?

No way!

You would have to do the following every time you used it, probably more...

Seal extractor fan in kitchen
Seal extractor fan in bathroom
Seal chimney
Seal cat flap
Seal waste trap in Kitchen sink(s)
Seal any vented tumble driers (That doesn't mean just close the door
either!)
Seal waste trap in bath
Seal waste trap in hand basin
Seal waste trap in shower
Seal waste trap in toilet
Seal any over-flow pipes

While the system was on, you may have trouble opening your fridge, freezer
and probably any other sealed jars etc. due to the lower pressure inside.

Not very practical all in all!

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms. Make
an opening from the outside of the house to the inside, and have a fan
in it blowing through a filter (for pollen etc.) toward the inside.

First problem. Dust becomes airbourne, choking user and leaving dust on
every vertical surface.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message k
Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
First problem. Dust becomes airbourne, choking user and leaving dust
on every vertical surface.

Not to mention every horizontal surface,

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

Whole house vacuum clearer systems have access ports (inlets) where a
user can plug-in a flexible pick-up tube. Behind the access ports are
tubes that lead to a central vacuum clearer. The user aims the end of
the flexible pick-up tube at the dirt, and the suction takes the dirt
via the tubes to a container in the central vacuum cleaner. This
article describes one setup: http://snipurl.com/ottj

The vacuum cleaner itself is larger and perhaps has a quieter motor
than portable units, but it's conventional in design. A fan covered by
a dust filter provides the suction.

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms. Make
an opening from the outside of the house to the inside, and have a fan
in it blowing through a filter (for pollen etc.) toward the inside. In
other words, have a fan that pressurizes the house. Behind each access
port, have a tube goes directly to a screened-in container outside. The
user closes up the house, starts the pressurizing fan, and uses the
flexible pick-up tubes as in the conventional arrangement. Dust and
gases get removed from the house, and the larger pieces of trash get
caught in the screened-in containers.

I see advantages to this kind of system:

The tube system is simple and cheap.

Short tubes going outside are unlikely to clog.

Instead of capturing most of the dust as with a conventional unit, you
exhaust the dust to the outside. This exhaust doesn't need much of a
filter. A screen would prevent you from littering the neighborhood.

Relatively clean incoming air goes to the fine filter. This would need
infrequent replacement.

Pick-up tubes can be different sizes.

There's a possibility of quiet operation.


Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?

Hmmm,
First real air tight house is not easy to build. If you pressurize I
don't think it has to be air tight. Real problem is how big a turbine?
Air liners do that.

Sparks wrote:

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
ups.com...

Whole house vacuum clearer systems have access ports (inlets) where a
user can plug-in a flexible pick-up tube. Behind the access ports are
tubes that lead to a central vacuum clearer.

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms. Make
an opening from the outside of the house to the inside, and have a fan
in it blowing through a filter (for pollen etc.) toward the inside.

Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?


No way!

You would have to do the following every time you used it, probably more...

Seal extractor fan in kitchen
Seal extractor fan in bathroom
Seal chimney
Seal cat flap
Seal waste trap in Kitchen sink(s)
Seal any vented tumble driers (That doesn't mean just close the door
either!)
Seal waste trap in bath
Seal waste trap in hand basin
Seal waste trap in shower
Seal waste trap in toilet
Seal any over-flow pipes

While the system was on, you may have trouble opening your fridge, freezer
and probably any other sealed jars etc. due to the lower pressure inside.

Not very practical all in all!



Maybe your lungs will balloon? LOL!

Sparks wrote:
"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
ups.com...

Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?

Interesting idea. I don't think the pressure that could be
achieved would pick up much dirt. Somebody should do a trial to
see why this won't work.

No way!

You would have to do the following every time you used it, probably more...

Seal extractor fan in kitchen
Seal extractor fan in bathroom
I don't have any extractor fans.
Seal chimney
I don't have a chimney.
Seal cat flap
I don't have a cat or a flap for it.
Seal waste trap in Kitchen sink(s)
Put the plug in.
Seal any vented tumble driers (That doesn't mean just close the door
either!)
I don't have a vented drier.
Seal waste trap in bath
Seal waste trap in hand basin
Seal waste trap in shower
Put the plugs in.
Seal waste trap in toilet
Hmmm, good point. Get the wife to sit on that.
Seal any over-flow pipes
I don't have any overflow pipes.
While the system was on, you may have trouble opening your fridge, freezer
and probably any other sealed jars etc. due to the lower pressure inside.
I don't eat or drink while I am doing the vacuuming.

Not very practical all in all!

It would be very quiet. I think it would generate less dust in
the air than an ordinary vacuum cleaner.
If it works at all at a pressure that won't blow the windows out.

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
Whole house vacuum clearer systems have access ports (inlets) where a

Interesting thought, but I'm afraid that pressure sufficient
to blow dirt out a discharge pipe would blow out the walls
or windows of a house.

Something I did that DOES work extremely well was to "pipe"
our house with compressed air. I had several quick connect
outlets across the house where we could plug in a 50' hose.
In addition, I had two 6" outlets that connected to my 5hp
shop dust collector in the basement. The vac wasn't one of
the portable types, but was a 5hp induction motor vacuum
that had two 6" inlets to collect sawdust and sanding dust
as I worked. By using a 6" flex hose from one of the two
outlets upstairs, it was like a "super" vacuum that moved a
LOT of air.

When it was time to do Spring cleaning, for instance, I'd
just lay the 6" lines into a room and use the compressed air
to blow dust off of our stone fireplace, Ficus tree,
bookshelves, library shelves, under beds, and even
baseboards. When followed by a good vacuuming of the carpet
by a conventional vacuum cleaner, we had great cleaning in a
minimal time.

Nehmo Sergheyev writes:

But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt?

Yes! Like Goldfinger's private jet! Hyperbaric cleaning! You're a
genius!

Dust and gases get removed from the house, and the larger pieces of trash
get caught in the screened-in containers.

Just how much dust and gas do you have in your house ?
I can't see going through all this trouble to remove dust from your house.
Unless you have have a 30 MPH wind blowing through the house, the dust is
going to settle on everything in the house, which will require dusting
anyway.



--
JerryD(upstateNY)

I see advantages to this kind of system:

The tube system is simple and cheap.

Short tubes going outside are unlikely to clog.

Instead of capturing most of the dust as with a conventional unit, you
exhaust the dust to the outside. This exhaust doesn't need much of a
filter. A screen would prevent you from littering the neighborhood.

Relatively clean incoming air goes to the fine filter. This would need
infrequent replacement.

Pick-up tubes can be different sizes.

There's a possibility of quiet operation.


Would this be a practical system? Has anybody ever seen anything like
it?

--
(||) Nehmo (||)

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
ups.com...
But what about positioning the motor and fan on the other side of the
dirt? Make the house airtight, and when using the vacuum close the
usual exhaust ports, like the ones for the kitchen and bathrooms.

Fire places, letter boxes, trickle vents in windows and any openings the
builder missed.

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

I see advantages to this kind of system:

You must be the only one who does, with the exception of course of those who
wish to rob you blind, and by that I mean those who will promise to
copyright it, market it and all the associated hangers on who want big fat
fees up front, they'll think it's fantastic and tell you that you'll make a
million from it, they are just interested in seperating you from your
cash.{1}

My advice is ditch it, no one in their right mind would be interested in
having it in their home.


{1}
And one of the things they will claim is that it's a must for asthmatics,
it's not, if anything it will put more dust into a room than it will
extract.

Glenn wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message k
Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
First problem. Dust becomes airbourne, choking user and leaving dust
on every vertical surface.

Not to mention every horizontal surface,

Don't mention that :-)

I'll get my coat.................


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Tony Hwang wrote:
Hmmm,
First real air tight house is not easy to build. If you pressurize I
don't think it has to be air tight. Real problem is how big a turbine?

Nehmo -
I haven't done any of the math regarding how large the pressurizing fan
should be or what pressure should be achieved. But a rough estimate is
possible: To simplify the problem, let's say the house has no vents, no
plumbing fixtures, no gas appliances, and the house is of an almost
airtight modern construction. I often use a 6.5 amp (120 Volts) shop
vac and get respectable results. I imagine using an 11 amp fan (I have
one) as the pressuring means would get reasonable results at the
pick-up tube.

The next step in something like this is to experiment a bit.

Tony Hwang
Air liners do that.

Nehmo -
Airline cabin pressure can go as low as 75% one atmosphere or
equivalant to an altitude of 8,000 feet.
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...e/q0206a.shtml
The fact isn't relevant. I just found it while looking around and I
thought I'd share it:-)
--
(||) Nehmo (||)

If you are sufficiently far away from the pressurizing fan, there won't
be any perceptible wind at all. The fan will create pressure more than
flow. A conventional cleaning vacuum works by a difference in pressure
between the room and the catch chamber (the tank of a shop vac
perhaps). In the arrangement I'm considering, there still is the
difference in pressure, but this time it's between the room and the
great outdoors.
--
(||) Nehmo (||)

Guy King wrote in news:31303030343237394436F25672
@zetnet.co.uk:

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

I have a mental image of this happening when they start doing the
new pressure testing of houses as required by UK Building Regs.

"Eight pounds of over-pressure wave seemed to glue him to the wall"
Jethro Tull, Protect and Survive.



Oh my. You must be from my era!

As #&%!ed up as my memory is, the 1976 concert at Shea Stadium NYC/USA
was excellent. What I remember of it anyway....:-)

sorry about the crossposting, followups set

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
6. If you applied even a tiny amount of the pressure differential
you find in something like a Dyson to a whole house, it would
be instantly blown to pieces all over the neighbourhood.

The absolute BEST that any whole house (or other type) vac could do is
approximately 14.7 psi (1 ATM) pressure differential... You can't go less
than a pure vacuum, so that's it... THEORETICALLY, the OP's idea could
produce better results since one could design it to produce more than 1 ATM
of pressure in the enclosure... From a practical standpoint, I seriously
doubt that a person would be able to make their house *that* airtight...
Think of it this way -- a 32"x68" door is 2176 sq-in in area... At *only* a
14.7 psi pressure diffential, that would would need to be able to withstand
nearly 16 tons... Actually, the house wouldn't be blown all over the
neighborhood... You need a lot more pressure differential than that to get
something blow up... You would probably start getting various seams to leak
first and then you wouldn't be able to pump air into it as fast it was
leaking out...

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
oups.com...
Tony Hwang wrote:
Hmmm,
First real air tight house is not easy to build. If you pressurize I
don't think it has to be air tight. Real problem is how big a turbine?

Nehmo -
I haven't done any of the math regarding how large the pressurizing fan
should be or what pressure should be achieved. But a rough estimate is
possible: To simplify the problem, let's say the house has no vents, no
plumbing fixtures, no gas appliances, and the house is of an almost
airtight modern construction. I often use a 6.5 amp (120 Volts) shop
vac and get respectable results. I imagine using an 11 amp fan (I have
one) as the pressuring means would get reasonable results at the
pick-up tube.

The next step in something like this is to experiment a bit.

Tony Hwang
Air liners do that.

Nehmo -
Airline cabin pressure can go as low as 75% one atmosphere or
equivalant to an altitude of 8,000 feet.
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...e/q0206a.shtml
The fact isn't relevant. I just found it while looking around and I
thought I'd share it:-)
--
(||) Nehmo (||)


Possible: Maybe
Practical: No way
Effective: Barely

Implemented correctly you get:
Boy in a bubble, Clean room, Positive pressure

Don't forget, if you run this in winter you will throw away at least two
house fulls of heated air you paid for.

Cost effective: not a chance

wrote:

I don't have a dog in this fight but my shop vac pulls about 40" of
water with a nrew bag. That is about 1/10 of an atmosphere or about
1.4 pounds. Not a lot of pressure but I bet it will blow the roof off.

Only if your roof weighs less than 100 tonnes.

gfretwell -
my shop vac pulls about 40" of
water with a nrew bag.

Nehmo -
What size motor does your shop vac have?

gfretwell -
That is about 1/10 of an atmosphere or about
1.4 pounds. Not a lot of pressure but I bet it will blow the roof off.

Nehmo -
Considering the inevitable leaks, it would take an enormous compressing
fan to blow the roof off. (Your shop vac turned around wouldn't make
that pressure in a house.) I'm thinking of a fan something on the order
of 500 watts to 1KW. I'm not sure what pressure differential that would
create in a tight house, but I suspect it would be enough to do some
cleaning.

--
(||) Nehmo (||)